Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Nysse on 16 December 2013, 08:21:59 PM
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Hi,
My first post here after lurking around for a long time.
I've been dragged into playing Saga by some of the other people at my local club. My initial foray into the game was by playing Anglo-Saxons so I ended up buying some Wargames Factory Saxon Thegns. Not the greatest minis, but they are really cheap at least compared to most of the other stuff you get here in Finland. Next up in line i have Gripping Beast Norse Gael's which are from a totally different planet.
Shields are freehand. I tried painting some raven's etc. but gave up after a few tries. I guess I still need a bit more practice :P
You can see some more pics and my other projects from my url=http://engineered-gaming.blogspot.fi/2013/12/saxon-thegns.html]blog[/url].
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0jEgIxsMIds/UqtAwTN3t6I/AAAAAAAABrA/hmzXcRgNF6M/s1600/IMG_0728.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RCj5E1TC6Tg/UqtAwcN4t3I/AAAAAAAABrE/QlByx89pMX0/s1600/IMG_0731.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-VeqydmQfunw/UqtAw-EqQLI/AAAAAAAABrk/KSN6z6qAgGs/s1600/IMG_0734.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-S6Vyr4vtssQ/UqtAxR9yuYI/AAAAAAAABrg/KHET1iwX8oQ/s1600/IMG_0736.jpg)
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Nice brushwork, welcome to the LAF.
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Looks good to me. Great start on the forum!
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Nicely done. Welcome to the forum.
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Like the brushwork, but I must say, there's much nicer models out there to be collected and painted.
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Like the brushwork, but I must say, there's much nicer models out there to be collected and painted.
True enough, but there are also much worse ones, and the WGF ones do the job well enough. You can also do more with them as a "kit" than you can with anything else, if you're willing to put some effort into them.
Nysse, I think they came out well, and the shield designs look good! Anglo-Saxons should have been (mostly?) Christian by then, so you don't need Odin's raven banner, and the neat and tidy geometric patterns are effective as they are. I will say, the ones where you added the black lining to separate the colors look better to me, so I would say try for more of that next time too.
- H8
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True enough, but there are also much worse ones,
If you say so; I haven't stumbled on them :)
...the neat and tidy geometric patterns are effective as they are. I will say, the ones where you added the black lining to separate the colors look better to me, so I would say try for more of that next time too.
Edged colours always look better than non-edged colours, true!
Alternatively, try edging the bordering colours with darker shades of the same colour (bordering dark vs dark, example blue edged with dark blue, bordering on white edged with grey or off-white/light khaki/bone). Usually works magic for definition.
These ARE very well painted, no doubt about that, I just find the sculpts a bit off - I think their vikings are nicer, but still suffer from the 'open hand syndrome'.
(You probably can't beat WF on price, though. I bought a lot of their modern zombies (which are a pain to clean and assemble, but actually much nicer finished than they are given credit for), and I have a set of Republican Romans which are well... sort of meh, but will work when painted properly, of which I have assembled a few, and a box of Shock Troops that I find very nice.)
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Hatemonger: Yes the raven's etc. are probably a bit of historically, but they do look good :) Need to try some on my next batch of Norse-Gaels, or then just get me some decals. And true about the WGF minis that you can get them to look nice with a lot of work, but that would really mean reposing most of them and modifying all the arms, hands and heads. Plus adding a lot of detail on the chainmail. At least now I know not to buy them anymore :P It's a bit shame that they don't really sell any other Dark Ages kits here in Finland so you are pretty much stuck to ordering from the internet if you want anything else than WGF in this era.
Thanks for the tip Argonor! I think I'll have to try painting the border are with a slightly darker shade if it looks any better (probably will). Didn't like the look of the black border on some color combinations so I decided to go with just the straight transition of colors on most of the shields. And add some battle damage too... Maybe the next batch will get some more love. Didn't want to spend too much time on these as I already pretty much decided before painting that these were going to be replaced by nicer minis the moment I get some done. And I also had to get these ready for a game fast :)
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It's a bit shame that they don't really sell any other Dark Ages kits here in Finland so you are pretty much stuck to ordering from the internet if you want anything else than WGF in this era.
Here in DK, I have to order pretty much everything on the interweb - only stuf like GW, Privateer, and some clix are available in local stores.
Thanks for the tip Argonor! I think I'll have to try painting the border are with a slightly darker shade if it looks any better (probably will). Didn't like the look of the black border on some color combinations so I decided to go with just the straight transition of colors on most of the shields.
NP, I think that's what a forum like this is for :)
And I also had to get these ready for a game fast :)
In that case, you have indeed done very well. And, don't replace them, they are too well painted for that, just use them as levy rabble, where numbers are more important than the individual warrior :)
I forgot to mention, if you want to add definition to black areas on shields, you can add a subtle highlight with a very dark grey or blackish brown or blue near the edges of the black area, leaving the black as border - it takes a little practice to get right, but can go along way to break up the dull flat black that is the result of pre-fabricated blacks.
Personally, I hardly ever ever use a flat black straight out of the bottle anymore, but have made ready-mixed 'blacks' consisting of black/grey, black/blue, and black/brown to use as base coat for black areas. It is so mach easier to work up colours to look right from a 'broken' black than from a flat black.
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Nice paint job!
As you mentioned the minis aren't the best out there, but for the price they are unbeatable.
(Been thinking about getting some of those for a while)
(...)
I forgot to mention, if you want to add definition to black areas on shields, you can add a subtle highlight with a very dark grey or blackish brown or blue near the edges of the black area, leaving the black as border - it takes a little practice to get right, but can go along way to break up the dull flat black that is the result of pre-fabricated blacks.
Personally, I hardly ever ever use a flat black straight out of the bottle anymore, but have made ready-mixed 'blacks' consisting of black/grey, black/blue, and black/brown to use as base coat for black areas. It is so mach easier to work up colours to look right from a 'broken' black than from a flat black.
Nice tip!
I've done in on other paint schemes (black-dressed sci-fi figures for instance), but I feel I still have a long way to go to find it at least "ok" if you know what I mean. (Deep black and clear white are always harder to do well IMHO).
Any chance we can see a couple of pics with shield examples?
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Yeah normally for blacks I tend to use German Grey mixed with a bit of black and shaded with black inks. Works quite nicely on anything other than a flat surface :)
One other thing that I've been playing with is having an uneven color (whites and greys) as the basecoat for shields or other large flat areas and then using extremely thinned down paints to have the base shine through to give some variety in the coat. Been using it quite a lot with my airbrush, but never really got around to properly using it when painting with brushes. Only by basically doing a two-tone basecoat for the whole mini to have some preshading in all the creases of the clothing etc.
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Any chance we can see a couple of pics with shield examples?
I'm afraid, I haven't done any shields with black, but if you find the Empire Spearmen I painted for the Medieval Painting Order, their black armour plates are subtly highlighted with very dark greyish blue (it's a flat black, then highlighted, though); I used the broken blacks on Doc Holliday (hat, duster, and trousers) and Wild Bill Hickock (hat and trousers) o'er at the Old West Painting Posse.
Yeah normally for blacks I tend to use German Grey mixed with a bit of black and shaded with black inks. Works quite nicely on anything other than a flat surface :)
One other thing that I've been playing with is having an uneven color (whites and greys) as the basecoat for shields or other large flat areas and then using extremely thinned down paints to have the base shine through to give some variety in the coat. Been using it quite a lot with my airbrush, but never really got around to properly using it when painting with brushes. Only by basically doing a two-tone basecoat for the whole mini to have some preshading in all the creases of the clothing etc.
Vallejo German Grey is a great colour to work with, for sure.
The thinned down solution I haven't tried.
Some ppl use washes/inks over grey or white primer to build the colour from light to dark.
I prime all my minis black, as I can then do the first graduation in colour just by adding a second layer of the base coat colour, and it doesn't matter if I miss some of the deeper impressions in the surface.
I haven't used washes for a while, but that's going to change when I do my Mantic Z horde that I'm assembling atm...
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Well I managed to paint up another bunch of Dark Age minis. This time Norse Gaels with Dane Axes. Warlord, 4 Hearthguard and 8 Warriors. Now I have 6pts done to be actually able to play without always borrowing someone elses minis.
I tried to add a bit more variation to the shields by slightly highlighting and shading them. Don't know if it really shows up that well. Anyway I decided to order some Battleflag shield decals. I'll redo these shields too when I get them.
These are done with my normal workflow unlike the Saxons which I needed to finish quick. Black undercoat, grey at 45 degrees, white from top. Helps bring out all the creases etc. After a basecolour I shaded them with GW and Army Painter inks (6 different depending on the basecolor) then few layers of highlights.
Anyway any tips etc. to further improve are really welcome as usual!
Some more pictures can be found from my blog (http://engineered-gaming.blogspot.fi/2013/12/painting-challenge-entry-2-norse-gaels.html)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KYqAd_-Y5lI/UrMzRP7JBtI/AAAAAAAABs0/537gCQE5yoc/s1600/IMG_0747.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Vm1VmGdDbho/UrMzRIilJKI/AAAAAAAABs4/XaxB2UIzMRU/s1600/IMG_0749.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-abpBA4TTSDs/UrMzRiHpG9I/AAAAAAAABs8/8StCtKNWZ_g/s1600/IMG_0751.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dhTQi_GeKe8/UrMzR_E0pQI/AAAAAAAABtU/4CiKZgSG718/s1600/IMG_0754.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-v2pCXKLrARQ/UrMzTJcE4xI/AAAAAAAABtg/ASIODbVVlZc/s1600/IMG_0756.jpg)
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It's always difficult to make the dark-against-dark edging work against black, but I think the black cross with grey looks good in 'table-view' especially (close-ups usually are not very forgiving, unless a lot of blending has been done).
I would actually like to see some step-by-step photos of your spray priming, as I'm considering a similar, although lazier, approach to my zombies (black primer all over, skeleton bone or necrotic flesh from 45 degrees, block out the shrouds, soak everything in devlan mud and/or other washes, paint eyes, mouth/teeth, gashes, blood etc...) :)
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It's always difficult to make the dark-against-dark edging work against black, but I think the black cross with grey looks good in 'table-view' especially (close-ups usually are not very forgiving, unless a lot of blending has been done).
I would actually like to see some step-by-step photos of your spray priming, as I'm considering a similar, although lazier, approach to my zombies (black primer all over, skeleton bone or necrotic flesh from 45 degrees, block out the shrouds, soak everything in devlan mud and/or other washes, paint eyes, mouth/teeth, gashes, blood etc...) :)
I'll try to remember to take pics the next time I prime something. It would really be more helpful if you then used washes to paint the minis instead of 'regular' paint. Now it's more of a helpful guideline and doesn't take too much longer than my normal priming as I do it with an airbrush anyway and switching paints doesn't take too much time.
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Great work - especially on the WF figures. These are so easy to get wrong (experience talking...) but you have achieved realistic poses and a great overall appearance.
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Thanks nikephorous!
Finally got around to painting the other half of the starter box. With all my Saxons I now have 7pts Saga done so should be able to play fine without resorting to some other club members minis :)
I used Battle Flag decals on some of the shields. Would have loved to use them on all of these guys, but they are a bit thick so didn't go well on the curved shields. Also as they are meant for the plastic Vikings from GP I had some issues with the fit and had to cut them up a bit to make them fit well. The Warlord has some of the undercoat shoving next to the shield boss that I didn't notice until from the close-ups.
Some more pics and my other projects on my blog (http://engineered-gaming.blogspot.fi/2014/01/painting-challenge-entry-8-more-norse.html) if you guys are interested!
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-iyZ2pP2kW44/UuYCDtO3Q-I/AAAAAAAAB8U/1oaDZH4XdBM/s1600/IMG_0824.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-jvhbvsmpXf4/UuYCDiCz_QI/AAAAAAAAB8c/UyMYSwVW59o/s1600/IMG_0832.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KlRkbGS5FBI/UuYCEid6MkI/AAAAAAAAB8k/gXX084G6uGA/s1600/IMG_0835.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-IzWs_AwC0DM/UuYCE6kBb0I/AAAAAAAAB8w/mhBSKVKJKIM/s1600/IMG_0836.jpg)
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Argonor: The basic way how I do my basecoating can be seen here. I start with a black undercoat to make sure that everything is covered and there are no bright spots left. It helps if I can't get to some hard to reach (and see) spot when painting as there's black there and it works sort of as a shadow. After this I do a light grey coat at a 45 degree angle from the top all around. This still leaves the black in all the shadowy areas as preshading. If you use really thinned down colors or washes you can get quite a good result by just painting over this. Otherwise it helps see the detail and adds a good basecoat on which to paint on as I don't fancy painting over black that much. If I would be painting with washes I'd finish this of by doing a quick burst of white straight from above the mini.
Finally I spray dark brown on the base to speed up the whole thing. Saves you paint and brushes when you airbrush stuff like this. On these guys I also made sure that all the shields were even light grey as I was going to use shield decals and they needed to be applied onto a white/light grey base.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-XKM5Dj9Ndwg/UuYFDE80vkI/AAAAAAAAB9M/YFHKGfwud5Y/w1598-h553-no/basecoat.jpg)
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Lovely! Looking forward to seeing more.
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OK, thanks.
I'm going to apply the actual colours of my Mantic zombies in a similar manner: Army Painter Leather Brown basecoat, AP Skeleton Bone or AP Necrotic Flesh (for variation i may use a light grey on some, too) 45 degrees from above, paint the shrouds different colours, apply a dark brown wash, then pick out details and add gore before finisheing the bases.
Back to prepping zeds... ;)
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Thanks Mitch!
I'm going to apply the actual colours of my Mantic zombies in a similar manner: Army Painter Leather Brown basecoat, AP Skeleton Bone or AP Necrotic Flesh (for variation i may use a light grey on some, too) 45 degrees from above, paint the shrouds different colours, apply a dark brown wash, then pick out details and add gore before finisheing the bases.
I actually painted a bunch of Kroot with the exact same colors a few years back :) Nice and fast especially coupled with army painter dips and some flashy colors for armor and hair/feathers.
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Another very cool bunch, congrats!
And those transfers on the shields do look quite nice!
Just out of curiosity, doesn't the surface of the decal stays somehow "shiny" compared to the rest of the miniature painting (at least in certain angles when direct light reflects on them)?
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Another very cool bunch, congrats!
And those transfers on the shields do look quite nice!
Just out of curiosity, doesn't the surface of the decal stays somehow "shiny" compared to the rest of the miniature painting (at least in certain angles when direct light reflects on them)?
Thanks!
It doesn't shine any more than any other part of the mini after applying matt varnish. For decals I usually paint the underside with gloss varnish to help the decal set. After putting on the decal I apply another layer of gloss over it to seal the edges and blend it to the rest of the model so that the edge isn't visible. Finally a matt varnish over the whole mini to take away all the shininess everywhere.
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@Nysse: Thanks for clearing that up!
I tend to like (as in "enjoy") to paint details freehand, but those shield decals end up looking so good I could be tempted to give it a try.