Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Pikes, Muskets and Flouncy Shirts => Topic started by: Nachtbringer240 on 07 January 2014, 09:28:05 AM
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I'm hoping to do a force of Scottish mercenaries under the command of Colonel William MacKay (if the book I'm using as a source is accurate) for the Calvinist/Protestant forces, and I want to include Gallowglass.
However, I'm slightly unsure about using Claymore Castings Gallowglass (link (http://claymorecastings.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=122)), purely because I'm unsure about what the Gallowglass looked like during the 30 Years War.
Anyone care to help me out?
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The Gallowglass were Irish mercenaries. They would still be wearing chainmail shirts or jack, with or without helmets.
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The Gallowglass were Irish mercenaries. They would still be wearing chainmail shirts or jack, with or without helmets.
Yep just with updated helmets and maybe a pistol or two. :)
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The Gallowglass were Irish mercenaries. They would still be wearing chainmail shirts or jack, with or without helmets.
Yep just with updated helmets and maybe a pistol or two. Smiley
Okay, so maybe give them a morion or a burgonet? Gotcha.
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Okay, so maybe give them a morion or a burgonet? Gotcha.
The Irish tended to have outdated equipment compared to the English, who themselves lagged behind European armies. A mix of Morions and Burgonet would work but you could also add in the odd sallet or even a kettle helmet to mix things up.
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The Irish tended to have outdated equipment compared to the English, who themselves lagged behind European armies. A mix of Morions and Burgonet would work but you could also add in the odd sallet or even a kettle helmet to mix things up.
Interesting. That's probably gonna mean more conversion work than I originally intended but still. Should be fun.
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I converted some of the claymore castings for 15th century Gallowglass for a WOTR project that has been bubbling away for a couple of years now. I used Perry WotR heads to give them a slight mix. You could go the other way and perhaps use Warlord Games TYW and ECW heads.
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I converted some of the claymore castings for 15th century Gallowglass for a WOTR project that has been bubbling away for a couple of years now. I used Perry WotR heads to give them a slight mix. You could go the other way and perhaps use Warlord Games TYW and ECW heads.
That was intention. Although I might have a go using the Perry WotR heads I ever dabble in medieval wars.
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30 Yrs War is a bit late for gallowglass - they close out in late 16th century to just about the end of Elizabeth I's reign (first decade of 17th century). Irish mercenaries in 30 Yrs War would look much more like Irish of the ECW period.
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THIS is a good example of what Irish mercenaries look like in the 30 Yrs War period (17th century - gallowglass really close out the 16th)
http://eurekaminusa.com/collections/english-civil-war-montrose-irish-28mm
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I agree with Franz, the TYW is too late for your classic galloglass. The Irish and Scots "red shanks" in the famous Stettin pictures were soon re equipped with the correct equipment and probably quickly re clothed too. You might want to add the odd claymore, basket jilted broadsword or targe to some red haired, plaid wearing tyw pike and shot to represent a unit which had been in country for a while, or use some of the Irish ECW figs instead.
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THIS is a good example of what Irish mercenaries look like in the 30 Yrs War period (17th century - gallowglass really close out the 16th)
http://eurekaminusa.com/collections/english-civil-war-montrose-irish-28mm
Ah. So maybe relying on Wikipedia: not the best idea.
I agree with Franz, the TYW is too late for your classic galloglass. The Irish and Scots "red shanks" in the famous Stettin pictures were soon re equipped with the correct equipment and probably quickly re clothed too. You might want to add the odd claymore, basket jilted broadsword or targe to some red haired, plaid wearing tyw pike and shot to represent a unit which had been in country for a while, or use some of the Irish ECW figs instead.
So using the Montrose Irish models for Irish mercenaries. Although, I'm planning on doing one of the Scots brigades under Gustavus Adolphus, so that would mean a substantial lack of Irishmen. But it's still something to think about.
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I think there would be little to distinguish highland Scots and Irish other than the banners of their regiments to be honest. The language spoken by both would have been identical or as near as, clothing and custom would likewise have been similar, hence their ability to be put together in the same unit. Once the clothing they'd travelled in had worn out or uniform was issued to them I doubt you could tell them apart from Swedes or Germans except in small differences in personal kit - bonnets, dirks and pipes, perhaps the odd plaid piece of cloth. But in terms of their battlefield kit, it wouldn't be apparent at all. This was definately true for their officers, look at the Earl of Leven compared with Horn, etc.
However we're Wargamers, we like to see differences between troops. lol
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I think there would be little to distinguish highland Scots and Irish other than the banners of their regiments to be honest. The language spoken by both would have been identical or as near as, clothing and custom would likewise have been similar, hence their ability to be put together in the same unit. Once the clothing they'd travelled in had worn out or uniform was issued to them I doubt you could tell them apart from Swedes or Germans except in small differences in personal kit - bonnets, dirks and pipes, perhaps the odd plaid piece of cloth. But in terms of their battlefield kit, it wouldn't be apparent at all. This was definately true for their officers, look at the Earl of Leven compared with Horn, etc.
However we're Wargamers, we like to see differences between troops. Laugh
I was just trying to think of the best way to show the difference between Scots and Irish without having to resort to banners or colours. I was just thinking Gallowglass (and I'm sure I've seen them referred to as Scottish rather than Irish) since they would have a very Gaelic flavour to them.
Plus, I want to do something on my list of models to make before I join the army.
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I'd say it all depends on how accurate you want to be. Gallowglass in chainmail armed with two-handed broadsword are definitely out and would have been of little use in the pitched battles of the TYW anyway.
The sad historical reality is the various British mercenary regiments in Danish or Swedish service were almost certainly indistinguishable from their German colleagues. Scottish and Irish mercenaries were ferried to Germany and landed there wearing their native clothes, but they were provided with suits of clothing by their colonel-proprietor once their joined their unit. It sometimes took a few weeks to do so but they ultimately ended up wearing the same doublet/cassock and breeches as the rest of the infantry. They were also issued with hats, though it is quite conceivable that some of the men clung to their native bonnets, which would have been the only item of native clothing to survive the process of induction into a regular regiment. I have yet to see evidence that Scots retained their plaids which doubled as foul weather clothing and bedding - after landing in Germany.
The famous Stettin print depicts highlanders as they would have appeared just after they got off the boat, not as they looked like in the battlefield - though of course they would be just as ragged as the rest of the army after a few months' campaigning.
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I'd say it all depends on how accurate you want to be...
So if I'd want to show a distinguishable difference between the Scots and the Swedish (outside of the banners used), I'd need to take some pretty heavy artistic licensing with the uniforms then?
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Bonnets seem to have been preferred to hats in the ECW; you could sprinkle a good few through your Scots units. Nothing says Scottish pike and shot like a blue bunnet. Maybe a piper as well?
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So if I'd want to show a distinguishable difference between the Scots and the Swedish (outside of the banners used), I'd need to take some pretty heavy artistic licensing with the uniforms then?
'Fraid so...
For an 'accurate' depiction of Irish and Scots mercenaries in Swedish service, have a look at the following plate from the Osprey MAA on Gustavus Adolphus' infantry - sorry, can't seem to find a larger pic :
(http://www.ospreypublishing.com/members/figureart/figureartimages/bookpagethumbs/9780850459975PC_th.jpg)
The bowman on the right is based on the Stettin plate below, but the authors stress the fact that highlanders would only fight in their native dress if they had not yet been provided with new clothing, a situation that was unlikely to last for more than a few weeks :
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Scottish_soldiers_in_service_of_Gustavus_Adolphus%2C_1631-cropped-.jpg)
One thing that should be kept in mind when dealing with the 17th century is that celtic/highland clothing was not considered exotic or glamourous then but was rather viewed as backward and primitive, which is why colonels were eager to put their men in 'proper' western European clothing as quickly as possible. Culturally, the fascination with tartan and celtic traditions is very much a product of the romantic movement which swept across britain during the 19th century, and feels totally anachronistic for the 1630's.
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One thing that should be kept in mind when dealing with the 17th century is that celtic/highland clothing was not considered exotic or glamourous then but was rather viewed as backward and primitive, which is why colonels were eager to put their men in 'proper' western European clothing as quickly as possible. Culturally, the fascination with tartan and celtic traditions is very much a product of the romantic movement which swept across britain during the 19th century, and feels totally anachronistic for the 1630's.
So plaid and tartan would only be for very fresh recruits and veteran troops would be closer to Swedish battle dress (e.g. blues, greys and some yellows(?). Right. That actually does make things slightly easier for me.
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Arthur is correct and you are too. It would make your job easier. My TYW units have command figures as individual figures which I place in front of the unit, making it very simple to swap ensigns and have them represent different regiments.
Why not add a few blue bonnets to your command figures, or even just the standard bearer, give him plaid breeches or have your commander from one of the Covenanter officers packs produced by various suppliers. Customise a little, add flavour and character.
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Arthur is correct and you are too. It would make your job easier. My TYW units have command figures as individual figures which I place in front of the unit, making it very simple to swap ensigns and have them represent different regiments.
Why not add a few blue bonnets to your command figures, or even just the standard bearer, give him plaid breeches or have your commander from one of the Covenanter officers packs produced by various suppliers. Customise a little, add flavour and character.
Well, I was thinking of using the Perry Miniatures ECW Scots standing foot command (I also might get the advancing foot command in the future if it works out) as the command group along with Warlord Games Scots Covenanters kit. Some TYW standards from Flags of War, a few morion helmets (of all sorts really).
I've also been tossing the idea of using the Armoured Pikemen, but I'm not overly sure about that idea. They'd probably just to beef up the group and make it look more of a veteran unit.
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So plaid and tartan would only be for very fresh recruits and veteran troops would be closer to Swedish battle dress (e.g. blues, greys and some yellows(?).
Exactly.
On the Swedish side, yellow only appears to have been worn by the Hovregiment a.k.a the yellow regiment, a German mercenary unit which was Gustavus' Lifeguard regiment of foot in effect if not in name - though it was not his personal bodyguard : that honour went to the Livgarde Kompani, who wore grey cassocks and were usually brigaded with the Hovregiment in battle.
So yes, grey would seem perfectly appropriate for Scots or Irish regiments in Swedish service, perhaps more than blue which appears to have been more common among native Swedes. Period documents don't seem to mention other colours than grey for the Scots/Irish. Of course, after a few months spent campaigning, the original issue of clothing would soon become pretty ragged and the men would wear anything they were issued, or stole or looted from the dead regardless of colour and cut : logistics always were a major headache for armies of the period and supplying cloth of the right colour wasn't always possible.
Richard Brzezinski's Osprey MAA on Gustavus Adolphus' infantry includes several quotes from period documents which stress the poor appearance of Scottish, Irish and English recruits upon their landing in Sweden or Germany. Swedish commanders often complained about their 'nakedness' and the need to issue them with proper clothing to 'take away the mark of their miserable and barbarous condition'. Their native Irish or Scottish clothing was described as 'cheap, it being only to serve them at sea for upon arrival in Sweden they are to receive new apparel and be furnished with arms'.
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So yes, grey would seem perfectly appropriate for Scots or Irish regiments in Swedish service, perhaps more than blue which appears to have been more common among native Swedes. Period documents don't seem to mention other colours than grey for the Scots/Irish. Of course, after a few months spent campaigning, the original issue of clothing would soon become pretty ragged and the men would wear anything they were issued, or stole or looted from the dead regardless of colour and cut : logistics always were a major headache for armies of the period and supplying cloth of the right colour wasn't always possible.
So:
- Tartans and plaids for raw recruits
- slightly fresh greys and blues for intermediate soldiers
- and worn blues and greys along with the occasional brown or red (or whatever colour) for veteran soldiers
If I'm understanding you right.
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I think you've nailed it now yes.
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I think you've nailed it now yes.
Yay! :D