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Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: Silent Invader on 15 January 2014, 06:35:41 PM

Title: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx - UD 29/1)
Post by: Silent Invader on 15 January 2014, 06:35:41 PM
A project I've been slowly pushing forward, is the creation of a conversion kit for the Matcbox diecast Snow Trac, to scale it upwards to approximately 1/56 (my diecast target range is 1/54 to 1/58).

The Snow Trac is no longer in production, as it was powered by a VW air-cooled engine that is no longer produced.  Shame really, as it's a great little beastie - the size of a compact car - that saw civilian and military use up until, I think, the 1980s (and there are still privately owned vehicles still in use).

More info and images:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Trac (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Trac)

Don't overlook that despite how small these things were, the civilian version could carry 7 people, with a forward facing driver and six passengers on sideways facing benches (so tight, their knees must have interlocked).

Small size comes with a low weight. It had a kerb weight of 3196 pounds (1,440 kgs), so for my wargaming purposes it can be transported underslung from a medium or heavy lift helicopter (my 1/55 scale EC145T2 has a sling load limit of 1,500 kg).

I'll be using mine in my Scavenge Skirmish Survive PA game but as they might also be of interest to pulp, moderns and future gamers, the workbench board seems as good a place as any for the project's progress along my... er.... workbench.   :)

First up is an image of a good condition toy, complete with rubber tracks, with info from the vehicle page of my SSS project website (  (here (http://sss.miniaturemojo.co.uk/index_vehicles.htm))

(http://sss.miniaturemojo.co.uk/SSS_SnowTrac_wip_00.JPG)

Quote
Model Overall Length 55mm ~ Actual Length 3600mm ~ Approx. Scale 1/65
Model Overall Width 34mm ~ Actual Width 1900mm ~ Approx. Scale 1/56
Model Overall Height 31mm ~ Actual Height 1940mm ~ Approx. Scale 1/63
Model Cabin Length 27mm ~ Actual Length 2000mm ~ Approx. Scale 1/74
Model Cabin Width 22mm ~ Actual Width 1300mm ~ Approx. Scale 1/59

From the approximate dimensions above, you'll see that the toy's scale is all over the place.  However, the overall width is right for 1/56.  The cabin width is a bit small at 1/59 but as I'll be using these vehicles as transport for only 3 or 4 of my ICE Troopers, I can live with that.

With an ICE Trooper (which, height-wise, is misleading as I forgot to raise the vehicle on a base and he has a big helmet  ;)):

(http://sss.miniaturemojo.co.uk/SSS_SnowTrac_wip_01.JPG)

The Matchbox toy was their reference 35 and came in 3 variants.  The last two variants are pretty much the same but the first differs in having cast-on letters reading 'Snow Trac' on both sides of the cabin (the latter two have the same info using decals).  

The toy dates from 1963-1965 (yep, its an old'un) and so models with the rubber tracks are relatively rare.  Most examples are in play-worn condition and missing tracks for which on Ebay I have typically paid £4-£5 including UK delivery.  Replacement rubber tracks can be purchased but as I am re-jigging the overall size of the model, I have made my own units.

(http://sss.miniaturemojo.co.uk/SSS_SnowTrac_wip_02.JPG)

First thing to do was to remove the axles and wheels, drill out the connecting rivet and give the metal parts (not the plastic!) a soak in Dettol to strip the paint.

(http://sss.miniaturemojo.co.uk/SSS_SnowTrac_wip_03.JPG)

Before supergluing the parts back together, I removed the fuel tank cap (which was a bit proud) and the tow hook.  Ignore the greenstuff stains (merely a contact residue from parts making) but notice the three axle holes on either side: the front and rear pairs will be used later.

(http://sss.miniaturemojo.co.uk/SSS_SnowTrac_wip_04.JPG)

I then made some plasticard and greenstuff parts (sorry no images of that section of the wip), comprising of (clockwise from top left):

- rear extension with integrated external fuel tanks, larger door and reinstated tow hook
- left side track unit
- LMG with ammo can, shell bag and vehicle mount, based on a German MG3; more info here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinmetall_MG3)
- sledge tow bar .... nothing to get excited about just a bit of metal paperclip
- sledge
- roof extension with escape hatch and base for the gun mount
- right side track unit (note the two lugs on the inner side, which will be fixed into the axle holes on the diecast)

(http://sss.miniaturemojo.co.uk/SSS_SnowTrac_wip_05.JPG)

And all the parts fitted together...  There are some larger gaps as it's held together with blue-tac but even when glued, the nature of the fit means there will be some small gaps that will need a smear of filler.  This is of course an approximation of a Snow Trac as in the real thing the three windows went all the way to the end of the cabin and the rear door and rear window arrangement was very different.  Why have I skipped making a perfect replica?  Because it would have been a lot more effort and an exact reproduction isn't actually necessary for my project.

The rear/roof extensions, repositioned tow hook and new track units have the following effect (NB: these lengths include the tow hook):

Model Overall Length 64mm ~ Actual Length 3640mm ~ Approx. Scale 1/57 (was 1/65)
Model Overall Width 34mm ~ Actual Width 1900mm ~ Approx. Scale 1/56 (unchanged)
Model Overall Height 34mm ~ Actual Height 1940mm ~ Approx. Scale 1/57 (was 1/63)

(http://sss.miniaturemojo.co.uk/SSS_SnowTrac_wip_06.JPG)

And versus an ICE Trooper (please try and ignore uneven levels caused by blu-tac):

(http://sss.miniaturemojo.co.uk/SSS_SnowTrac_wip_07.JPG)

(http://sss.miniaturemojo.co.uk/SSS_SnowTrac_wip_08.JPG)

And with top-mounted LMG in place:

(http://sss.miniaturemojo.co.uk/SSS_SnowTrac_wip_09.JPG)

The next stage is to tidy the new bits, then drop cast them in metal from RTV silicone rubber moulds, so that I can have metal masters to then vulcanise for spin casting.  That might sound like a lot of mumbo jumbo but basically it's the steps I'll take to be able to spin cast the copies in metal.  

The rear part of the escape hatch opens upward and backwards, so I might make a version of the roof with it open, and maybe the top half of a gunner (without the rucksack, etc) to man the LMG.

More idc.  :)

Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox direcast to a 1/56 approximation)
Post by: sandsmodels on 15 January 2014, 06:57:30 PM
great work, not seen one for ages but a useful vehicle indeed.
Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox direcast to a 1/56 approximation)
Post by: Silent Invader on 15 January 2014, 08:21:10 PM
great work, not seen one for ages but a useful vehicle indeed.

Cheers Shaun  :)

When you say not seen one: real or model?
Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx)
Post by: Eric the Shed on 15 January 2014, 10:27:42 PM
Is there no end to your talents?

When I was looking for snow vehicles I saw these and just thought they looked too weeny..you've done a great job up scaling.

If any manufacturers read this there is a gap in the market for tracked snow vehicles as nobody currently makes them...
Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx)
Post by: Mason on 15 January 2014, 10:49:26 PM
Great stuff, Steve.
Very cleverly and skilfully done.
 :-*

Now please pack it in with these inspirational posts as you have me sitting here working out how I can use some in my Spy-Fi project.
 >:( >:( >:(


 ;)
Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx)
Post by: Silent Invader on 15 January 2014, 11:03:00 PM
Thanks Eric  :D

I had been struggling with how to transport my troopers - jet skis IMO being not so practical (noisy, limited space, etc) then I bumped into these on an image search.  I was flummoxed at first because some traders describe them as 1/56  and others as 1/65.... I guess the chosen scale reflects the target market  lol

Anyways, it looks like they'll work so I am proceeding to mould making for the parts.

BTW I also considered the Bolt Action LVT-4 Buffalo - with some conversion such as a plasticard cabin etc it maybe could be civilianised for your pulp project?

http://www.warlordgames.com/18446/new-bolt-action-lvt-4-buffalo/ (http://www.warlordgames.com/18446/new-bolt-action-lvt-4-buffalo/)

And thanks also, Paul  :D
Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx)
Post by: The Dozing Dragon on 15 January 2014, 11:23:12 PM
If this is for release count me in  :)
Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx)
Post by: Silent Invader on 15 January 2014, 11:39:31 PM
@DD
Yep, I'm intending that the kit will be added to the store  :)

Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx)
Post by: Mason on 15 January 2014, 11:50:49 PM
Yep, I'm intending that the kit will be added to the store  :)

Great, as I have just gone and bought one for the Khanistan Resistance.
 :D

Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx)
Post by: Silent Invader on 16 January 2014, 01:16:20 AM
 :D

Now I'm under pressure!  :o  lol
Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx)
Post by: Constable Bertrand on 16 January 2014, 04:27:16 AM
Good bit o' work there steve! I'm pretty impressed with your GS skills, I was previously unconvinced it would work for size, but you are changing my mind! I'm aiming for 1/48 with my vehicles.  ???  ???  ???

So all in all, I'm looking forward to the build going ahead.  :)

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx)
Post by: Silent Invader on 16 January 2014, 07:34:47 AM
Thanks  Matt.  :)

Hopefully, this will produce the right result: I'm itching to get the first model assembled and painted: perhaps in a black and white tiger stripe cammo  :D

Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx)
Post by: Elk101 on 16 January 2014, 07:52:00 AM
Some silky skills on show Steve! The extra height makes a big difference to the look with the troopers and I imagine a vehicle base will make it even better. Nice work!
Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx)
Post by: Mason on 19 January 2014, 08:00:15 PM
:D

Now I'm under pressure!  :o  lol

If you think that is pressure, I should inform you that I now have a sceond on its way and am looking for more.
 :D

Now pull your finger out and get 'em cast up, pronto!
 :D


 ;)
Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx)
Post by: Silent Invader on 20 January 2014, 12:43:57 AM
Man o man!

Small delay awaiting a delivery of RTV rubber

First pours now done

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/16/2031_20_01_14_1_35_31.jpg)

Second pours tomorrow then 24 hours to cure and 48 hours to evaporate any solvents, after which the metal masters can be drop cast.

Another 24 hours to correct any moulding/casting faults with greenstuff then another 24 hours for making a vulcanised mould before final masters and production copies can be run off.

Test fitting, assembly, photos, website update say another 24 hours.

All assuming everything goes to plan!

I'll let you work out how many days that is but let's see if I can stick to the schedule!  :D
Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx)
Post by: Silent Invader on 21 January 2014, 03:29:11 PM
Still on schedule  ;)

Moulds of the plasticard parts made from RTV rubber

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/16/2031_21_01_14_3_48_23.jpg)

They now need 48 hours to 'dry' then I'll drop cast the metal masters.

A problem with drop casting (ie, using gravitational rather than centrifugal force) can be getting metal into the nooks and crannies before it cools too much to flow properly. The big pour hole will help, as it will be completely filled so the weight of the excess  will hopefully force metal into the finer hollows (such as the tank tracks).

We shall see!
Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx)
Post by: Mason on 21 January 2014, 03:39:39 PM
Great stuff!

Looking forward to these.
 :D


I used to work in a sculpture founders as a sand moulder and caster, so fully appreciate your reservations regarding gravity and metal cooling.
Of course that was on slightly larger moulds than these.
 ;)

Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx)
Post by: v_lazy_dragon on 21 January 2014, 03:44:15 PM
Good luck Steve - my attempts at drop castng have always been iffy, although in retrospect that may have been from the mould outgasing and cooling the metal prematurely
Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx)
Post by: Silent Invader on 21 January 2014, 03:57:51 PM
Yes, it will be interesting to see how it works. :o

Don't forget though that I am using these moulds to produce metal masters to be vulcanised, so I can go hotter with the metal and the mould, as I haven't got to get many casts from them. 

(Fingers crossed as I really don't want to have to remake the tracks..... o_o) 
Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx)
Post by: sandsmodels on 22 January 2014, 01:51:04 PM
splendid work, but you can vulcanise the plastic masters i do it all the time, you just need the right rubber discs.
if you need help just pm me
shaun
s&s models
Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx)
Post by: Silent Invader on 22 January 2014, 03:01:25 PM
Thanks Shaun.  Well that's me educated then: i'd thought styrene was too low temp for vulcanising (tho I suppose a low temp silicone would do it).
Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx)
Post by: OSHIROmodels on 22 January 2014, 03:13:08 PM
You really are a one man band aren't you  8)

You'll be making your own cnc machine next (or a laser  :o )  :)

cheers

James
Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx)
Post by: von Lucky on 22 January 2014, 03:25:31 PM
I'm off travelling for a week and this place is churning out wargaming gold. Nice one Silent Invader.
Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx)
Post by: sandsmodels on 22 January 2014, 06:52:00 PM
Thanks Shaun.  Well that's me educated then: i'd thought styrene was too low temp for vulcanising (tho I suppose a low temp silicone would do it).
when i was shown this then 'new' silicone low temp rubber i was mightily impressed, back in the early 90's,  now it takes less than a day to go from a plastic or resin master into metal parts either for sale or more multiple masters.
it is great stuff if you can use it properly
you could even use 'g' clamps and your kitchen oven, (wife permitting!)
if you have mould boxes.
glad to help
Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx - UD 29/1)
Post by: Silent Invader on 29 January 2014, 12:38:41 PM
Thanks Shaun

Sooooooo, I'm about a week behind schedule as I while I was able to successfully drop cast 99.9% of the metal masters, that bit that wouldn't fill was an absolute pain to recreate ..... Damn tracks !

Anyways now fannied around with and I have masters than can be vulcanised for spin casting moulds. Yay.

This next round of mould making should be in the next day or so.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/16/2031_29_01_14_1_31_12.jpg)
Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx - UD 29/1)
Post by: Too Bo Coo on 29 January 2014, 01:06:09 PM
Looks great Steve!  Cant wait to see it in stock for my greedy Scavengers! :)
Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx - UD 29/1)
Post by: Mason on 29 January 2014, 03:43:13 PM
Great result!
 8)

Good man.
You can put me down for at least two sets, maybe more if I can pick up the chassis on ebay at a reasonable price.
 :D

Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx - UD 29/1)
Post by: Silent Invader on 29 January 2014, 03:46:12 PM
Well thank you but let's await production castings  before we get carried away  :D (who am I kidding, I bought 9  :o).
Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx)
Post by: snitcythedog on 30 January 2014, 04:33:08 AM
A problem with drop casting (ie, using gravitational rather than centrifugal force) can be getting metal into the nooks and crannies before it cools too much to flow properly. The big pour hole will help, as it will be completely filled so the weight of the excess  will hopefully force metal into the finer hollows (such as the tank tracks).
Looks like you know what you are about, since your venting is done very well.  I am hoping that your mold works well.  Interesting project all around.
Snitchy sends.
Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx - UD 29/1)
Post by: Too Bo Coo on 08 February 2014, 08:26:28 PM
Very impressed with your talents!
Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx - UD 29/1)
Post by: Espritfigs on 09 February 2014, 09:39:54 AM
i like!
great result Steeve  :-*
Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx - UD 29/1)
Post by: grant on 09 February 2014, 10:08:30 PM
Very cool - I had one of those Snow Trac vehicles when I was a kid.  :)
Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx - UD 29/1)
Post by: Eric the Shed on 09 February 2014, 10:23:51 PM
you bought nine.. :o

how much did that cost ???
Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx - UD 29/1)
Post by: Silent Invader on 09 February 2014, 11:03:57 PM
Thanks guys..... Bit of a delay as the production mould isn't reliable so I am going to tweak the edges of the tracks. Had hoped it'd be this weekend but it seems to have run away from me! Maybe tomorrow.

you bought nine.. :o

how much did that cost ???

 :D

Tho I plan to sell the kits I'll also put some ready-converted models into the store plus I need 3 or 4 for the demo game  ;)
Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx - UD 29/1)
Post by: Blackwolf on 10 February 2014, 06:36:47 AM
Nice :-*
Title: Re: Snow Trac wip (rescaling Matchbox diecast to 1/56 approx - UD 29/1)
Post by: somtec on 24 February 2022, 09:00:07 PM
Apologies for bringing up this very old thread but was searching snow tracs and came up with this, are there any conversion kits still available anywhere also shame the photos are no longer there would love to see them. Could do with a snow trac for my royal marines in the falklands war