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Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: pixelgeek on 19 January 2014, 02:22:16 AM

Title: Bolt Action v. Victory Decision
Post by: pixelgeek on 19 January 2014, 02:22:16 AM
Has anyone played both of these rules and perhaps comment on the pros and cons of each?

I have both rulesets and am tempted by both but was curious if anyone had any experience with both that they'd like to share. Most of my ViDe reading has been from this forum and most of my Bolt Action reading has been from their forum and the Boltaction.net site. Both of the latter are very competitive places and the discussions there are enough to put one off the rules.
Title: Re: Bolt Action v. Victory Decision
Post by: NurgleHH on 19 January 2014, 07:00:16 AM
Maybe this thread can help you: http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=40940.0
Title: Re: Bolt Action v. Victory Decision
Post by: pixelgeek on 23 January 2014, 05:38:09 AM
Thanks
Title: Re: Bolt Action v. Victory Decision
Post by: BA Barrukus on 24 January 2014, 02:37:23 AM
BA amongst friends and some house rules  :) anything other than that >:(. The other I don't know enough about.
Title: Re: Bolt Action v. Victory Decision
Post by: Agis on 24 January 2014, 10:18:10 AM
Well i am biased on both games, I wrote the Japanese book for Warlord and also the whole Victory Decision line.
Both games have a similar approach and are also different.
Both are GAMES and not historical simulations.
The scope , platoon lvl games is also the same.

Otherwise they differ, I had some nice talks with Alessio about the games over skype, whenever i randomized something he did not, whenever he randomized it I did not.
ViDe allows remeasuring, BA not etc etc

If you want to focus more on infantry action with only one tank, BA is for you.
If you want a platoon of infantry plus 3 to 6 tanks and dedicated 6-15mm support in the rules ViDe is for you. In the end it is simply a matter of taste.
Title: Re: Bolt Action v. Victory Decision
Post by: Conquistador on 24 January 2014, 02:16:19 PM
Interesting - this has stayed very polite and fact oriented.   ;)

While I may never  :'( get back into WW2 in reality (time/space/money/priorities) I do enjoy the idea that I might and the rules out there seem to run the gamut of style and game mechanics.  It is very educational to read specifics of comparisons/contrasts and not so helpful to hear either comments comparing (and debasing) Rules "x" as Rules "y" with "<insert gaming aspect/mechanic  poster doesn't like> " or overly generalized judgments.

Just thought I would stare my appreciation of the non-confrontational discussion so far.

Gracias,

Glenn
Title: Re: Bolt Action v. Victory Decision
Post by: pixelgeek on 24 January 2014, 03:30:08 PM
If you want to focus more on infantry action with only one tank, BA is for you.
If you want a platoon of infantry plus 3 to 6 tanks and dedicated 6-15mm support in the rules ViDe is for you. In the end it is simply a matter of taste.

Could you elaborate a bit on this?
Title: Re: Bolt Action v. Victory Decision
Post by: Agis on 24 January 2014, 07:30:01 PM
Well in BA you are limited to one Afv, infantry is king, a unit of GIs can pin a Tiger tank.
Iirc they have corrected that but in essence BA is infantry centered.

In ViDe you play a platoon but you can add way more than one tank.
Especially the early war list give you plenty of vehicle options, simply because the tanks are far inferior to late war tanks which is reflected in the points value.
Title: Re: Bolt Action v. Victory Decision
Post by: BA Barrukus on 24 January 2014, 09:27:21 PM
"Both are GAMES and not historical Simulations"

I believe a game can be historical without being a simulation.  It is a good game, it's the gamey loopholes I'm not a fan of.
Title: Re: Bolt Action v. Victory Decision
Post by: pixelgeek on 24 January 2014, 09:45:43 PM
It is a good game, it's the gamey loopholes I'm not a fan of.

What sort of gamey loopholes?
Title: Re: Bolt Action v. Victory Decision
Post by: pixelgeek on 24 January 2014, 09:46:53 PM
Well in BA you are limited to one Afv, infantry is king, a unit of GIs can pin a Tiger tank.
Iirc they have corrected that but in essence BA is infantry centered.

In ViDe you play a platoon but you can add way more than one tank.

I'm not a big treadhead so that difference won't be compelling :-) If I wanted to do a lot of tanks I'd go for 15mm or Micro Armour.
Title: Re: Bolt Action v. Victory Decision
Post by: Agis on 25 January 2014, 12:28:46 PM
I'm not a big treadhead so that difference won't be compelling :-) If I wanted to do a lot of tanks I'd go for 15mm or Micro Armour.
Well then BA might be your thing!
;)
Title: Re: Bolt Action v. Victory Decision
Post by: BA Barrukus on 31 January 2014, 03:38:39 AM
What sort of gamey loopholes?

To be honest Agis there is quite a list but without bashing this otherwise fun game I'll give you a few.
Power lists..being a point driven game people tend to bend the arm of history in order to create powerful armies difficult to beat.

As per rules only one man in a targeted squad has to be in LOS and whole squad takes casualties. Which means your entire squad can be behind a building except one man and instead of losing that guy you can possibly lose everyone in that squad.

The game in attempt to have a level playing field has created MOSs that historically didn't exist.  Like US sniper teams.  WW2 not existent! On top of that the second man in that team"spotter" can't even shoot a weapon of his own. How many guys hit the battlefield without a weapon??? Not many!!

Last would be the use of a medic to drive vehicles and fire it's MGs.

Like I said its a good "GAME", but historical, not by a long shot!  I guess that when I first heard that this game was being put out by WG and Osprey, two historical based companies I was expecting something better than another Fantasy WW2 game, but after traveling and playing this game for about a year now I'm not impressed.
Title: Re: Bolt Action v. Victory Decision
Post by: Agis on 31 January 2014, 07:15:11 AM
@ BA Barrukus: I presume you are talking abot Bolt Action? If so no further comment from me.
I am responsible for Victory Decision and the BA Japanese book - no more.  8)

And I am not going to comment badly about anthother game...
 ;) ;)
Title: Re: Bolt Action v. Victory Decision
Post by: Conquistador on 31 January 2014, 02:12:50 PM
@ BA Barrukus: I presume you are talking abot Bolt Action? If so no further comment from me.
I am responsible for Victory Decision and the BA Japanese book - no more.  8)

And I am not going to comment badly about anthother game...
 ;) ;)


Such gentlemanly propriety is appreciated.

Gracias,

Glenn

Title: Re: Bolt Action v. Victory Decision
Post by: BA Barrukus on 01 February 2014, 12:54:04 AM
I apologize Agis as I was trying to answer pixelgeeks question about what I ment about BA being gamey.  Although I accidentally addressed you instead. ;D. Just to be clear, I own the game ,most of its supplements, and a ton of BA minis.  I do still play the game with a bunch of modifications and will be picking up your book soon! It's a good game, I just hoped it would be a little more accurate, but that's just my honest opinion.

BA
Title: Re: Bolt Action v. Victory Decision
Post by: Agis on 01 February 2014, 07:38:00 AM
I apologize Agis as I was trying to answer pixelgeeks question about what I ment about BA being gamey.  Although I accidentally addressed you instead. ;D. Just to be clear, I own the game ,most of its supplements, and a ton of BA minis.  I do still play the game with a bunch of modifications and will be picking up your book soon! It's a good game, I just hoped it would be a little more accurate, but that's just my honest opinion.

No apology needed, I just wanted to make sure that the other readers realize that ViDe does not have THESE issues (might have others, but not these).  ;)

Oh and BTW - ViDe is on many points (vehicle armour values etc.) more accurate...  8)