Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Conflicts that came in from the Cold => Topic started by: pinstrpepete on 05 February 2014, 03:09:47 PM
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Hi Guys,
I don't know if any of you saw the Rhino Wars (http://skirmishsangin.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/rhino-wars.html) scenario that the folks over at Skirmish Sangin posted on their blog the other day but it really piqued my interest.
Oddly enough, one of my first thoughts on reading Skirmish Sangin was in using it to represent the fight against ivory poaching, I just figured no one else would be interested.
It is a subject that I am particularly interested in, conservative estimates currently place the number of elephant deaths at 22,000 during 2012 and increasingly governments are looking to link ivory poaching with terrorist funding, in particular with Al Shabaab in Somalia (see articles in the UK based Independent, Telegraph and Mirror newspapers this week for reference).
What do you folks think about rules covering this conflict? Are you at all interested? I don't mean to suggest for a moment that wargaming will help solve the issue in any way (I imagine people may be put off by 'gaming' with such a contemporary, ongoing situation), however, I thought I would bring the scenario to people's attention anyway, on the off chance it inspires someone to go off and find out a little more about what's going on...
I guess i'm just a hippy at heart.
Cheers
Pete
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Why would you need a unique set of rules?
What is wrong with the approach of Sangin or using any of the other modern skirmish rules sets to put together a scenario?
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There is absolutely nothing wrong with using the Skirmish Sangin rules. Like I said, when I first read them I thought they would be perfect for the situation and their scenario proves that.
I did not mean at all to suggest that a new rule set needs developing. I was just curious what people think of the scenario and the 'setting' in general. I don't know about you but it is not something I have ever come across in table top gaming but perhaps I just have not been looking in the right places.
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That does sound like a really interesting scenario! I never really though about such things as a setting for modern wargaming, but I am pretty naive about such things outside of military conflicts!
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The British army was deployed to Kenya, and I think elsewhere in helping the local park Rangers to combat poachers. It was a very short deployment but there was a Light infantry unit keeping an eye on Elephants.
Executive Outcomes also did some Anti-poaching Ops (Ex-SAS) until WWF found out and went ape prior to their famous romp in Sierra Leone.
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Unless you plan on gaming the elephant or rhino shooting as part of it, I don't imagine it would be very different to a typical low-key counter-insurgency operation. I gather the poachers are armed little differently to a poorly equipped band of guerillas and in some areas are actually former guerillas in any case.
Zambia's Police Service are equipped with AK's and have a pretty distinctive camouflage.
(http://www.davidshepherd.org/uploads/Honey_Badger_Team_-_ivory_recovered.4.jpg)
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Do you think the wellies belonged to the poachers?!
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Also you now need rules for aerial drones,Uganda has just announced they will deploy drones to stop the poaching,good hunting Bwana
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really interesting !!
I may introduce this in my post apo project
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Some interesting stuff here.
I did not know about Executive Outcomes involvement Brummie. Funnily enough I was discussing the potential for PMC's involvement earlier on today so I suppose I am not surprised to hear that.
Also interesting to see how drone use develops, groups outside of the military are also seeking to make use of them, the IAPF for example as well as WWF (backed by Google I believe).
In terms of 'gaming' these scenarios I am not really up to date on sourcing appropriate mini's? I guess the Eureka Somalia range would be useful for Poachers. I believe TAG does an African militia range but I am not sure they are for me. Any ideas on what could be used to represent rangers or perhaps African military forces?
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Do you think the wellies belonged to the poachers?!
No, wellie-rustling is a major issue in Zambia, they were seized before being returned to their rightful owners. In some parts of Zambia the price of wellies is actually more stable than the currency. This statement may contain lies ;)
In terms of 'gaming' these scenarios I am not really up to date on sourcing appropriate mini's? I guess the Eureka Somalia range would be useful for Poachers. I believe TAG does an African militia range but I am not sure they are for me. Any ideas on what could be used to represent rangers or perhaps African military forces?
Eureka's Portuguese Colonial War and Rhodesian Bush War figures might yield some suitable figures, but they are '70s era figures, so might look a bit-dated to a point. They are indeed excellent figures though.
The old Mongrel 'Congo' and 'Lebanon' figures have a few suitable ones, but I understand they are difficult to get hold of. Newline Designs are supposed to be their UK outlet. Again these might look a bit dated but some of the figures might fit the bill, presuming you can get them.
I can't comment on the TAG figures, but they look okay from the photos.
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No, wellie-rustling is a major issue in Zambia, they were seized before being returned to their rightful owners. In some parts of Zambia the price of wellies is actually more stable than the currency.
lol lol
I was wondering if it was some not-so secret code for "and this is how many poachers were killed!"
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I'm rather taken by the idea.
Many of the Eureka ZANLA guerillas would look the part for either side, poachers or gamekeepers/park service/ police and then, yes some of the Somalis would make good poachers or guerillas.
Gripping beast do some very nice African militia, compatible size wise with the Eureka stuff. Ideal for more ragged poachers, a number in singlets and even one or two with bolt action rifles. There's even a child soldier for added pathos.
I suspect there are any number of suitable toy store jumbos, Rhinos and what have you for 'objective markers'. Probably the only practical way if you wanted a small herd. I think I've seen cheapo Safari or Zoo sets in the chain stores in Oz, I'll have to check them out.
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A cool idea- I love those Zambian's cammo!
Look at The Assault Group Ultra Moderns for African troops.
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I wonder if they use the captured poachers' wellies as umbrella stands?
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For people looking for more inspiration, I just finished a pretty good book on a very similar theme - Nicholas Proffit's Edge of Eden:
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1751924.Edge_of_Eden
Essentially the story of a special task force sent out after a poaching gang in 70s' Kenya.
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Anti poaching - always reminds me of the Kilamanjaro Safaris ride at Animal Mingdom in Disney World!
"The poachers have got Little Red! We must save him!"
"Hang on everyone! It's going to get a little bit rough while we go help out Wilson and Little Red!"
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Hi,
Just come across this topic, this is right up my street. After spending my childhood in East Africa (Kenya & Somalia), i have a passion for African wildlife conservation and thus it echoes in my wargames.
Here are some of the rules i have/use:
AK47, B'Maso, DinoMight, Force on Force (Bush Wars & Day of the Rangers), Skirmish Sangin (Maalintii Rangers, Afrika), Spectre Miniature rules, Tusk. I also have a scenario from a 1990's Wargame Iullstrated called Rhino A Green Wars.
My figures range from 10/12mm to 25mm and the time period is 1950's to present day/near future. Also all my Game warden figure are armed with bullpup rifles, but thats just me liking bullpup rifles ;).
Cheers
Jeff
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I was wondering if it was some not-so secret code for "and this is how many poachers were killed!
Ha, ha! I like the thought of that...
Mike Demana
www.firstcommandwargames.com
http://leadlegionaries.blogspot.com/
(http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/mikedemana/Miscellaneous/LPL_bades_zpsl7op2jaz.jpg)
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I've been looking for an excuse to order some Peter Pig AK47 minis but didn't know what to do with them. Poaching skirmishes seems a great idea.
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Just need some figures to act as Safari tourists.
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Glad this topic got revived, as I've also been pondering this for a while. A recent article in Smithsonian about a former Israeli special forces guy helping train anti-poaching units revived my interest. I haven't pulled the trigger yet (pun intended), but have found myself looking at figures from TAG, Empress and others.
Link to the article for those interested: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/fight-against-elephant-poaching-going-commando-180959071/?no-ist (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/fight-against-elephant-poaching-going-commando-180959071/?no-ist)
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Something popped up on my Facebook feed the other day about someone who was driving along an old dirt road in Botswana(?) when he got stopped by an army helicopter and 3/4 soldiers who jumped out and surrounded him. Some good scenario fodder out there and it's one of the things I quite fancy doing a few figures for (one day).
Jeff: If the photogs in this pack (28mm) are of use as tourists I can split them out (one has a flak vest but a bit of paint/putty might be able to hide it) http://tinyurl.com/jswpfwk. By the way, which issue of WI was that article in, do you know?
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Cheers for the heads up on the photo journalist. Not sure what issue but i believe it was either volume 2 or 3 cd. I can send you a copy if you want?
Jeff.
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If you don't mind Keff that'd be great. I've just spent half an hour saving photos down for ideas. I am very taken with some of the South African anti-poaching team and abseiling dogs (!!) (worth googling those, some cracking images)
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Have a look for a company called Protrack ;)
Jeff
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You could do a variant of this where the authorities hunt down dentists in Minnesota ;) I'd play that.
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I need a dentist figure now ;D
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Hi All,
It's great to see this pop up again, I'm still very much interested but I suppose I gave up on it after a perceived lack of interest. If anyone is around the Portsmouth area then give me a shout!
Maybe we could put our heads together to 'mod' an existing (or upcoming) rules set and design some scenarios? Just a thought but might keep the interest up.
Cheers
Pete
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Spectre Miniatures are updating their set of rules. I think most rules could be easily modded. The scenario from WI Rhino The Green Wars can easily be modded for Elephant poaching and could be used in most, if not all rules.
Jeff
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The only issue I can see is who on earth would want to play the poachers.
You could run it as a map based campaign where players ran competing anti-poachers units hoping to win the big contract (or the lion's share of the defense budget if gov/t forces) from Country X.
They could plan patrols/surveillance ops and ambushes and devise a random(ish) encounter based on their activities. Each activity could cost resources/lead to different encounters. When an encounter occurs for a group, the owner/CEO/Colonel running the group plays his guys and the other player plays the crap bags (and would have incentive to harm/cost his competition as much as possible).
I guess alternatively you could figure out an AI for the crap bags. Roll and encounter as a movement to contact, player ambushes or player being ambushed and use something like 2 Hour Wargames to run the poachers based on the encounter type.
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Just saw this while looking at image of the South African anti-poaching teams
http://www.nirvanaafrica.co.za/ (http://www.nirvanaafrica.co.za/)
The bottom of the page features details on special flying pilots with helicopter type jet-packs hunting poachers o_o looks like a great start for a very strange game!
Thanks
Blofeld
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Yeah, a properly 7.62 ventilated poacher is a lot less likely to be inclined towards recidivism.
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The only issue I can see is who on earth would want to play the poachers.
Comes back to the "why would I play Nazis" argument for me. There's a cognitive dissonance that exists when wargaming that an individual can only extend so far. I'd happily play a Poachers vs Police game or Terrorists vs GIGN game, so long as I'm not recreating an actual battle where real people died. But that's my line in the sand and no one else's.
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I do get your point there, still it would not be my choice of faction to play any time soon.
I think this simulation would actually work better with each player having a small squad of rangers/game keepers and an AI opponent. The players having to co ordinate a sweep and work together to prevent the poachers slipping through the dragnet.
I suspect in the near future as environmental collapse accelerates you will see all sorts of conflict around environmental issues.
Tusk rules would work for that, i think. Agree with you as regards near future environmental issues, water being the main concern.
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Scurv, that video sounds horrific. I said something similar to Jeffb about not having the stomach to play as the poachers.
Having nobody in my local area interested in anything beyond fantasy/Sci if settings I have been trying to come up with some kind of simple ai mechanic for years.
Perhaps we could put our heads together in this thread to try to come up with something? The wildlife would be easy enough but the poachers themselves is a different kettle of fish (in my experience anyway).
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I'd be up for helpin with ideas. As for playin the Poachers, i'd have no quams in playing them. At the end of the day its only a wargame with miniature soldiers.
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I'd be up for helpin with ideas. As for playin the Poachers, i'd have no quams in playing them. At the end of the day its only a wargame with miniature soldiers.
True that.
It's no different to playing Nazis, gangsters, terrorists, Mongols, cannibal pygmy tribesmen, necromancers...any bad guys really. It's just a game and playing that faction doesn't imply that you are in some way supporting their philosophy or goals.
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Interesting articles:
http://www.wildlifeplanet.net/is-it-ethical-to-kill-wildlife-poachers.html
http://www.africanxmag.com/Shoot%20on%20sight.htm
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Interesting series of articles (lead story at the moment in fact) on the UK Guardian newspaper site today: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/sep/26/revealed-the-criminals-making-millions-from-illegal-wildlife-trafficking
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I like this a lot!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/37535873
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Just watched that, came up on my Facebook.
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*bump*
Just been watching Virunga on Netflix, which is well worth watching for (a) anti poaching inspiration (b) footage of the Congolese army & tanks in action and M23 rebels.
Anyone got any further with rules and/or an actions generator for AI controlled poachers?
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I agree Virunga good
Film