Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: FramFramson on March 19, 2014, 05:53:03 PM
-
Okay, over many discussions of scale I've had, it seems that minis gamers have certain scale preferences for 28mm gaming.
- There's a hot debate over 1:56 vs 1:48 for vehicles
- 1:56 is preferred for landed aircraft (to prevent them from dominating a tabletop without looking too small)
- 1:72 is preferred for aircraft that remain in flight (due to weight on flight stands, and also to provide some false perspective)
The thing is, nobody makes 1:56 scale aircraft, so people often just make do with other scales, off-scale toys, etc. Well, Blitzkreig miniatures are planning on doing a line of WWII aircraft in 1:56 scale (they have a render of a Stuka posted as a teaser). I asked what they had planned and they said they were actively soliciting suggestions. Rather than just guess myself, I thought I'd ask you folks to submit suggestions.
Me, I want a Junkers Ju 52 as an objective in games and also an interwar civilian transport. A Fokker or Ford trimotor too, but Blitzkreig is primarily a WWII manufacturer, so I don't think that'd be a priority for them.
I also expect a lot of folks would be interested in an Me 262 as a late-war objective.
-
in WW II?
FW-190, Me-109, Me-262, Spitfire Mk IX, Hurricane, Typhoon, P-51 D, P-47. As objectives? B-17, C-47, Horsa, Storch, Do-17, V-1 and V-2, Ju-52, Ju-87, Avro Lancaster, Short Stirling.
Pacific? A6M Zero, Kawanishi H6K, Kawanishi H8K, P-38, PBY Catalina, B-24 ...
I could keep this going... :D
-
Focke Wulf 200 Condor of course :-*
-
Sunderland Flying Boat with lift off top and detailed interior that accommodates 25mm round bases.
I'm only 2/3 kidding. ;)
-
Given that the oft stated reason for a need/desire for 1/56 aircraft is so they look 'in scale' on the table (lets not go there in terms of ground scale, terrain etc) then wouldn't it be logical to produce aircraft that might, conceivably, be on the ground in the midst of our battles? LRDG raids aside I don't see that much call for the wherewithall to stock a fighter or bomber airfield.
Transport aircraft or light reconnaisance types, that routinely did operate just behind the lines seem more logical to me but probably not very sexy. Fiesler Storch, Austers, Pipers etc. Actually probably the most realistic option would be a Lysander for dropping off SOE types for your maquis vs German games. No idea how popular those are btw, probably a fringe.
Transports? Seriously, anyone worked out just how big A Dakota or a Ju52 is in 1/56? Big chunk of table, big chunk of resin.Actually even a 1/56 Stuka is going to be a large and heavy item. Now given these aren't going to be in resin not plastic I wonder what the price point will be vis a vis a 1/48 or 1/72 plastic kit that won't require a star picket as a flight stand, were anyone to want to display it in flight.
My own view is that aircraft models are basically pretty markers, be that objective or action and that for the moments spent whizzing across a six foot bit of sky, the cheaper the better.
I suspect gliders would be the better way to go. Maybe a Russian PO-2 biplane.
-
A 1/56 Hindenburg zeppelin.
-
I'm completely with Carlos on this...
A 1/56 scale aircraft would indeed be a game prop. So unless you're battling on an airfield, I'd concentrate on feasible planes or aircraft that might be downed for a scenario? Perhaps some quality gliders, a small Fiesler Storch scout plane, any small plane which may have transported spies or freedom fighters. Other than the aforementioned LRDG raids I just don't see a huge need for 1/56 scale stuff outside of dioramas or mega-con-games etc.
So I guess...small transports and gliders?
-
Sunderland Flying Boat with lift off top and detailed interior that accommodates 25mm round bases.
I'm only 2/3 kidding. ;)
That! I love this plane and would find ways to incorporate it into a game. ;D
-
Agree that size and materials cost are a big factor here. I think the gliders and small aircraft like Lysanders are actually good suggestions.
That said, I'm sure there will be people who want the other aircraft at times, such as the "capture a Me 262 scenario" I mentioned.
Since Blitzkrieg is working digitally, I wonder if the solution to keep things profitable would actually be to just make lots of digital files and submit them to a print-on-demand service like Shapeways.
-
Yes @carlos, those were my thoughts exactly
I bought two early war biplanes, HS 123 and CR.42 in 1/48, and I was shocked how huge they are
anyone interested? fully built, everything 1A
-
That! I love this plane and would find ways to incorporate it into a game. ;D
Waterline or full hull? :D
The problem for any manufacturer is that clubs or the occasional wealthy maniac wanting an airfield scenario aside is that very few people are going to buy more than one given size and likely cost. I'll chance my arm here but I'd guess there's more resin in a 1/56 Me-262 than a 1/72 Maus and anything bigger will probably weigh as much as a 28mm version. Aircraft are usually quite large objects.
Shapeways might be a more commercially viable method but then you need to remember what prices are like on Shapeways. I was looking at some 1/48 Land Rovers on Shapeways and was staggered by the price and those are a lot smaller than any 1/56 aircraft is going to be. Then you have the problem of medium, all those grainy ridges that will need to be patiently sanded back, cos they are going to stand out like dog's bollocks on a 1/56 aircraft. I suspect that most people will balk at the price and time required vis a vis a 1/48 model kit. There are a lot of 1/48 plastic kits out there, most WW2 subjects are covered by someone.
-
I've built several 1/56th aircraft (including a Stuka) and have been following this discussion with particular interest. IMO 1/56 is the best scale for 28mm - its a shame there aren't more planes in that scale - but a few issues make airplanes difficult to use on a game table.
1 = size - a JU52 or even a Fieseler Storch are BIG compared to a Tiger tank - though a Fokker Dr.I is quite small and would easily fit on a modest game table
2 = landing gear (up or down? - having both would be tricky to build into the kit); fixed landing gear solves that problem
3 = amount of resin would make for heavy/expensive kits - I'll stick to wood thank you
(http://i1325.photobucket.com/albums/u639/johnnytodd46/stukapilot3_zpscd67db9f.jpg)
-
Fieseler Storch...Italian CR42...
By the way great looking Stuka Johnnytodd !
If possible retractable landing gear would be nice! I remember spending hours on working hatches for a 1/48 Panther...the rear one specially.
-
The more I think about it...I almost wonder if shot-down planes wouldn't be a better idea...that and landed gliders. I'll be curious to see what you guys go with.
-
Such an interesting thread with useful discussion. Iv'e been considering planes for my gaming myself. I'd agree about landed gliders in fields being really useful for WWII gaming, you could even turn some into forward command posts like in Saving Private Ryan.
But I think transport planes for high ranking officials would be useful as well. Something that could be on the ground in a dangerous situations other than a spotless runway - a hedged field for example. For those 'Capture the intel' type games / attack or defend the forward HQ until the commander escapes. I think a Ju-52 tri motor, or DC-3 in 1/56 would fill this gap nicely.
But perhaps Johnny has a point with the cost involved. A quick look on evilbay and I could pick up a 1/48 Ju-52 for $300-400! o_o That isn't going to happen. Why not use a combination of materials? Have scaled plans for balsa wood builds, AND have smaller detailed parts supplied in resin like engines and props, landing gear/wheels? It would reduce costs and the amount of resin needed.
Cheers
Matt
-
Adding a plane, but mainly because it is very interesting to use in a scenario involving commando's or secret agents being dropped behind enemy lines, landing in a small field and such: The Westland Lysander. I think it makes, just like the Storch, for an excellent objective.
And I think this has become a very interesting topic.
-
A 1/56 Hindenburg zeppelin.
lol lol
Classic!
Darrell.
PS. coming to think of it, I bet someone has made one!!
-
lol lol
Classic!
Darrell.
PS. coming to think of it, I bet someone has made one!!
Got a spare couple of hundred bucks laying around and you can have your very own 1/1250 scale Hindenburg, it even comes pre-painted. It's a substantial model even at that scale.
http://www.navis-neptun.de/produkte/datenbank/l1_e.html
-
PS. coming to think of it, I bet someone has made one!!
This one is 1/39th scale!
http://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2011/06/now-thats-model-plane-with-difference.html
-
This one is 1/39th scale!
http://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2011/06/now-thats-model-plane-with-difference.html
1/39 scale? Oh, so one of those 'fit the box' offerings eh,? lol
-
The 1/39th scale airship is amazing, and the poor bloke who made it had his first two attempts trashed, one by his cat and the second attempt destroyed on its test Flight. The man must have the patience of a saint. I would have given up after the first attempt and taken up torturing the cat as my new hobby.
The original airship appears to be equally amazing , it carried 4 planes which it could launch and recover. Does anyone know if this was a one off or was this a fairly common ability among airships and zepplins? And does anyone know of any existing footage of this operation?
-
The US had a pair of airship carriers in the 1930s, the USS Macon and USS Akron, each carried four F-9C fighters. Both lost in accidents. Neptun also make models of those and they dwarf Hindenburg. I think they still hold the record for largest flying objects, although there's a twin hull airship being developed in Britain that threatens to eclipse that record.
-
Since I'm probably not going to build one any time soon, here's a free-bee for Shapeways: The Piper Cub is perfect for resin casting. It's small and usefull for many different roles on wargames battlefield:
(http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac297/grendels_father/Piper_Cub_by_davy59_zps6da3848e.jpg)
And had a great field modification as tank-buster ground attack by Charlie "Bazooka" Carpenter:
(http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac297/grendels_father/Piperl4carryingsixbazookas300dpic_zps2b2dabc3.jpg)
You'll sell a bunch!