Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Interwar => Topic started by: Plynkes on 22 November 2006, 01:58:44 PM
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I think it was Chris posting those pics of his SCW Anglian Miniatures, but I'm starting to get the Spanish bug (Spanish Flu?). I really don't want to get into a new period, but it's starting to feel inevitable. Maybe I'll just confine it to skirmish-gaming, eh?
Anyway, it got me looking back in my book collection and I dug out this book:
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/heartofspain.jpg)
It has about 200 pages of the most wonderful photos designed to inspire someone into jumping feet-first into this period. Quite an expensive coffee-table book, but that's okay, as my parents gave it to me as a Christmas gift some years ago. I would say "get this book" if you are interested in photos of this period, and you have some spare cash.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/capa2.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/capa3.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/capa4.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/capa1.jpg)
Inside the book is this poem:
This is our moment.
You can hear us singing
Where the earth is brittle under the southern sun
Watch us marching in serried ranks to the death that is our homage
To the unbroken spirit of our dishonoured country.
For here we are showing the world our country's other face,
And the voice that for three years in Germany has been silenced
Utters its songs of freedom under an alien sun.
We were in Barcelona with the masses that stormed the Colon;
We left with the first militia for the Eastern Front;
Then we went to Madrid;
We were at Casa del Campo,
Guadalajara, Brunete, Belchite and Teruel,
Putting to rout the Italians in the name of Thälmann.
Here we have shown to the world our country's other face;
And not the face of the hangman with the sprouting forelock
But the face of the young men who march together singing
Through the southern plains where the clay is brittle under the sun.
Aileen Palmer
Thälmann Battalion
Perhaps not the best poetry in the world, but I still find it moving. These are the guys I shall paint when I start painting. I think for once it will be nice to have the Germans as the Good Guys (besides, there were Brits in the Thälmann Battalion, too). They must get sick of being the evil baddies.
Unfortunately I have yet to find an image of their banner (you've just got to have a standard bearer in a SCW game!). If anybody can locate one, I'd be grateful.
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Sorry if this is in the wrong place, but it doesn't quite fit in "Pulp" to my mind.
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Ahh yes, the german communist brigaderos... great stuff! Thanks for linking.
I´d prefer being hit by the Spanish Fly rather than the Spanish Flu, though. :lol:
It´s difficult to place the SCW, eh? It won´t fit to BoB, neither really for Pulp due to the scale of affairs, and it´s neither of WW1 or WW2. But we wouldn´t need an Interwar board, since it´s mainly for adventure... and I planned for some adventurous uses of my SCW stuff, too, like convoys of church gold being intercepted by Nationalist troops etc...
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I was also very interested in this period! Particularly the FAI! And, believe it or not, you can get FAI figs, as well as a number of other SCW figs over at Force of Arms! Check out their PDF catalogue here:
http://www.forceofarms.co.uk/catalogue.pdf
Please keep me posted on your progress with this project, as I am also on the edge of beginning a collection! And yes, I would also restrict my collecting to skirmish ;)
Anyway, I think that this is the right category for this post, perhaps it would be more so if the Prof. changed the 'and' in the title to read 'to' :)
n.
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As to the request for the banner, these could be it:
(http://personal.telefonica.terra.es/web/vexicat/brigades/bi_thaelmann_color.jpg)
(http://personal.telefonica.terra.es/web/vexicat/brigades/bi_cmarx.gif) (http://personal.telefonica.terra.es/web/vexicat/brigades/bi_thaelman36.gif)
I found it on this page:
http://personal.telefonica.terra.es/web/vexicat/brigades/bi_columnas1936.htm
n.
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Mmmm... the anarchists are my favourite though:
(http://personal.telefonica.terra.es/web/vexicat/brigades/bi_rotfront.gif)
I love the anarchists for sure! The SCW was a great period for socialism, too bad they lost :(
(http://web.uni-muenster.de/asta/images/cnt-fai.jpg)
Anyway, sorry for the channel spam :D
n.
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Well, I chose the Int´l Brigades/Militia for my first force, because that´s one way to live out my leftist tendencies without smashing other people´s property (that´s what most "lefties" and "anarchists" here in germany seem to be about, judging from May Day Riots and blistering idiots like the Allgemeine Pogo Partei Deutschlands).
Not to forget the left´s atrocities on the clergy in the SCW, though.
On the state of my project, I´m sitting on hot coals while waiting for my Brigaderos and Milicianos which are in the mail since last week and should arrive any day now... damn damn damn, I can´t wait. I´ll do some "methadoning" with some Pig Iron Infantry today.
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Well, I chose the Int´l Brigades/Militia for my first force, because that´s one way to live out my leftist tendencies without smashing other people´s property
I appreciate your sentiment, but from a 'lefties' point of view, property is illegal in the first place ;)
But I digress. I really like this project because not only is it very interesting historically, but it also allows me to use all of my WWII terrain as well!
n.
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Yes, atrocities were common currency used by both sides, unfortunately.
Still, fool that I am, I still stick with the defenders of a democratic government as "good guys" over the perpetrators of a military coup d'etat.
Crikey! It's getting like TMP's Current Affairs Board in here! Sorry about that, it was not my intention to start arguments.
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Yeah, I guess I´m more of a "salon socialist" or "very liberal left-wing conservative" (now that´s indecision!). :lol:
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OK Boy´s you get me !!
I diden´t know much abaut the SCW but you and the miniatures from Anglian have convince I need that miniatures .
But I am a kind of a Rebell so if you all play the ``good`` left´s .I will make the ``bad`` Guys .
Chris do you know a good german book abaut that war ?
.....Dam I think I need all Miniatures from all sides :?
Grimm
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OK Boy´s you get me !!
I diden´t know much abaut the SCW but you and the miniatures from Anglian have convince I need that miniatures .
Grimm
Dios lo manda! (Pulp spanish strikes again!)
It´s hard to resist those marvy Anglian miniatures, isn´t it?
But I am a kind of a Rebell so if you all play the ``good`` left´s .I will make the ``bad`` Guys .
.....Dam I think I need all Miniatures from all sides :?
Hey, I´ll get a Falangist/Foreign Legion force once the Republicans are painted, too! :lol:
Chris do you know a good german book abaut that war ?
I´m currently reading "Kampfplatz Spanien", by Franz Borkenau, which is an eyewitness account from about 1937-38 (Borkenau being a german expatriate working as a journalist in Britain and traveling to Spain to report home). A very compelling read, definitely left-wing, but very fair and sensible in his account of the war´s reasons and the characteristics of the various factions - and his account of the various left-wing and anarchist groups is incredible.
Other books are hard to come by, since my local library only has Interwar-Books with some chapters on the SCW, at most. If you can find it, Raymond Cartier´s "Vom ersten zum zweiten Weltkrieg" has some very good chapters on the SCW, as well.
Crikey! It's getting like TMP's Current Affairs Board in here! Sorry about that, it was not my intention to start arguments.
Hey, I guess we can discuss this matter in a civilized and decent manner, without all that political-correctness-stuckuppityness. Don´t get me wrong, I really like TMP, but sometimes they go all nuts over that PC thing.
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I´m sitting on hot coals while waiting for my Brigaderos and Milicianos which are in the mail since last week and should arrive any day now...
Just a note for the sake of correctness (is this phrase good english, BTW?):
"Brigaderos" is not correct, it should be "Brigadistas" :)
"Milicianos", on the other hand, is perfect.
Basically, the Republican Army was made of Brigadistas (from the International Brigades), the Army/Navy and the irregular forces of Comunistas and Anarquistas (Milicianos, as a whole). There were also civil militias who should be Milicianos as well.
In the so-called Nationalist Army there were also Army/Navy (some units remained loyal to the Republic, other were Rebels) and then the Falangistas, Requetés and Carlistas (and the troops sent by Germany and Italy to help them)
The Falange were (more or less) a fascist movement armed, like the Italian Black Shirts... To talk openly about this issues here sometimes removes some old wounds (it depends on where and how you talk, of course). I think civil wars are nasty things (under a concept nasty by itself as war is)
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That´s exactly what I was about - just because my favourite faction would be the Republicans, I won´t ignore their faults and shortcomings.
Interesting to hear about the "Brigadistas" - in german, it´s "Interbrigadisten" as a plural form, but I thought "Brigadistas" sounded a wee bit feminine. But it´s "dinamiteros" for those nutty commie activists, right, not "dinamitistas"?
Muchas gracias, senor! I guess I´ll buy that Pons spanish dictionary, after all - I´ll also need it for the pirates sailing the spanish main.
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Just a note for the sake of correctness (is this phrase good english, BTW?)
That is perfect English, old boy.
I see the banners spell it "Thaelmann." I've seen it spelled that way and also "Thälmann." I wonder how the fellow (Ernst Thälmann, German Communist leader) spelled it himself?
I forgot to thank Neldoreth for finding those banners. So here we go:
Thanks, Neldoreth!
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"Thälmann" with the Umlaut would be the right variant, most monuments (in ex-GDR-cities, like Stralsund, for example) show it that way. I guess they adopted the "ae" writing to avoid using the Umlaut.
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I wonder why they'd be shy about using the Umlaut?
For a lazy person (like me) it is less bother to put two little dots on an "a" than to have to paint a whole other letter.
Unless of course they were doing the banner on their PC, and couldn't find "ä" in Character Map.
Or perhaps there was rationing of Umlauts because of the war...
:)
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Well, they certainly didn´t have a Fraulein Ingeborg at hand... ;)
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Perhaps the replacement of the umlaut is the Spanish-ization of the word. Look at the 'Carlos Marx' name was well. It seems that they didn't mind changing names to make them palatable to the Spanish tongue (excuse the pun there...)
In any case, I am very interested in this project! I don't mind the political discussion either, nor the various idealisms, we are all here to miniature game after all :) Anyway, my love of the anarchists seems to have some support; on the title page of Force of Arms miniatures they have a picture of some FAI Milicianos infront of a T-26B. I need those figs! Gotta love that red and black!
(http://www.forceofarms.co.uk/images/T26-FAI.jpg)
n.
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Damn damn damn! Stupid mail guys! Deliver my Anglian Miniatures already, ye foul varmints, you! :x :lol:
Mind you, I don´t want ideological flame wars, but being the homme moyen sensuel I am, I always chose the side which appears to be the lesser evil... ;) :lol:
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Interesting to hear about the "Brigadistas" - in german, it´s "Interbrigadisten" as a plural form, but I thought "Brigadistas" sounded a wee bit feminine. But it´s "dinamiteros" for those nutty commie activists, right, not "dinamitistas"?
You are right... I was wondering how to explain why it is that way but... I don't know! :lol:
A guy/girl who does/work-in "something" is a "something-ista" or "something-ero". I suppose there are rules, but if I studied them I already forgot... :) A football player is a "futbolista". A shop owner is a "tendero"
Muchas gracias, senor!
"No hay de qué" :wink:
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I wonder why they'd be shy about using the Umlaut?
I suppose that "umlaut" is the english word for those two dots over the vowel like in "ä", isn't it? (This forum is culture, man!)
If that is the case, the reason could have been that spanish language never uses umlaut over "a, e, i, o". Only "u" and in a few restricted cases. :)
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"Umlaut" is the german term for those special vowels, since they are unique to german; there is no english term (that I know of!) and thus, the german word is used.
Ä, for example, is pronounced similar to english "aesthetics", and is mainly used in german to denounce a sound similar to, but still noticeably different from "e".
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Character Map on my PC calls it a diaeresis.
But while a diaeresis mark may look exactly the same as an umlaut (two little dots above the vowel), I'm not sure that it signifies quite the same thing.
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I've been eagerly planning a few SCW forces. Does anyone besides Anglian make 28mm figures for it?
Also, can anyone recommend specific books on the war. I've browsed for hours on Amazon, but don't know what to get.
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The diaeresis mark, which is called a "trema", does, in phonetics, denote a composite of two vowels which are supposed to be pronounced separately rather than as a diphtong, for example in french "noël" (christmas), to be pronounced "no-ell" rather than "nowl" or "nole" (the latter like in Noel Gallagher). It is not commonly used in german since there are few occurances of non-diphtong vowel composites (they are almost automatically pronounced separately, "ideal" being a prime example, roughly pronounced "ee-day-ahl"), but is prevalent in both dutch and french.
Thus, it is different from the Umlaut, which is a special kind of diphtong, equaling the original vowel mated to a suffixed -e, ie ä=ae, ö=oe, ü=ue. Ä, for example, is generally pronounced as in "aesthetics", and imagine similar sounds for the other two - I can´t imagine any at the moment, but most english native speakers I met have great trouble at formulating the Umlaut sounds - not that it was unintelligible, though. Many consider the Umlaut archaic.
We have to replace Umlauts in website adresses by those diphtongs since the english code won´t allow for Umlauts (or would not until recently, I´m not totally up to date on that).
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Wow, check out the big brain on Chris!
8)
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Most english native speakers I met have great trouble at formulating the Umlaut sounds - not that it was unintelligible, though.
I have an English friend who has lived in Germany for some years. He says whenever you have to say an umlaut vowel sound in German you should just imagine you are a Geordie before you say the vowel.
"Geordies" are natives of Newcastle-upon-Tyne, a city in Northeast England. They have a very peculiar way of talking, especially the way they say their vowels.
I find my friend's tip that you should try and talk in a silly English accent when trying to pronounce your German quite amusing.
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I'm tempted by the Anglian minis as well, but I'm a bit daunted by all the various factions, militias, Internationals, etc. I wouldn't know where to begin!
The idea of uniformed Anarchists is a bit :D as well!
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Monk:
Yes, Force of Arms does SCW figurines:
http://www.forceofarms.co.uk/
LeadAsbestos:
Firstly, here is a great resource that breaks down the factions very well:
http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~warden/scw/scwpolit.htm
Secondly, Anarchists are not against organization and order, they are just against authority. That is, anarchism is against government-imposed order! Anarchism opposes order at the edge of a blade, the side of a club, or the end of a gun, or by majority tyranny like in representative 'democracies'. Order is good, organization is great, authority is bad. That is the idea. The anarchistists in the SCW were also syndicalists (which means unionists). Unions are totally about organization!
:D Who would have know miniatures would make for a great way to teach people about anarchism :D
n.[/b]
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Can't help with German books on the SCW, but here are three in English that are in front of me:
1. "The Spanish Revolution" by Stanley G. Payne, WWNorton & Co., NY 1970. This book gets deep into the social and political tensions that culminated in the SCW, and the first half of its 374 pages of text are spent explaining the factions and movements prior to the start of the war.
2. "The Spanish Civil War" by Hugh Thomas, Harper Brothers, NY 1961. It's been a while since I read this one, but I remember it as a well written general history. It also starts off with explanations of the political factions, and it's only on page 124 (out of 624 of text) that one reaches the critical event of July 13, 1936 (the murder of Calvo Sotelo).
3. "The Passionate War: the Narrative History of the Spanish Civil War" by Peter Wyden, Simon and Schuster, NY 1983. This author gets right to it, reaching the July 13 event on page 32 (out of 523 of text). I'm starting on this one, and it reads well and seems to be very straightforward.
Powell's books in Portland, the USA's largest single bookstore, which also sells books online, has some of these in its Spain section.
Warren B.
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Wow, check out the big brain on Chris!
Harhar, just two semesters of linguistics seven years ago, but such things stick to my mind - and the books are still around, too. This could be a nice discussion topic for "pulp german" - "Umlaut - sounds of vile or ridicule?". ;) :mrgreen:
Secondly, Anarchists are not against organization and order, they are just against authority. That is, anarchism is against government-imposed order! Anarchism opposes order at the edge of a blade, the side of a club, or the end of a gun, or by majority tyranny like in representative 'democracies'. Order is good, organization is great, authority is bad. That is the idea. The anarchistists in the SCW were also syndicalists (which means unionists). Unions are totally about organization![/b]
Yes, the anarchosyndicalists! :lol: You gotta love it. Must be the most oxymoronic movement ever.
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It's been a long time since I read some books about the spanish civil war, but they've been definitely in german.
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It's been some time since someone's posted in this thread but I recently stumbled on these links, that might be of some use to anyone, whose interested in the Spanish civil war (particularly in the tanks, that saw action during it):
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/spain/Spain-1.html
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/spain/Spain-2.html
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Hey guys,
Here are some of my Spanish Civil War stuff:
http://www.displacedminiatures.com/doctor%20merkury/galleries.html
I'm in the process of writing a supplement for Iron Ivan Games' Disposable Heroes Coffin for Seven Brothers rule system covering the Spansih Civil War.
Doc
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Oh when will it be ready and it is posible to use it for BOB ?
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Couple months for the SCW Supplement as for BoB, they do have a Chinese Warlord List and Chinese Guerilla list in their Pacific Theater Supplement "Red Sun, Red Death". They do have a free pdf supplement for the Rif War 1921-27 Morocco which could be tweaked for Central Asian forces.
Check it out:
http://www.ironivangames.com/rifwar.pdf
Doc