Lead Adventure Forum
Other Stuff => General Wargames and Hobby Discussion => Topic started by: TheBlackCrane on 23 March 2014, 04:51:27 PM
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Slightly dopey question, but can anyone explain to me how exactly import charges work for items coming from the USA to the UK?
My understanding is that Import VAT is waived when the VAT would be less than £10 (i.e. item value is less than £50). Is that right? I ask as I've seen a couple of items on fixed prices on ebay recently which would have been worth buying, even with the postage cost, but they've also had quite high import charges listed. I was having a conversation about Khurusan the other week too, namely putting in a big order at some point, only for import charges to come up in the conversation...
I'm under the impression that, basically, if I want to order anything at all from the USA, I'll end up paying a hefty tax charge too?
Any elucidation would be much appreciated!
Rob
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I'd be very happy if someone could cast some light on the subject too :).
Darrell.
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If you buy goods online from outside the EU for delivery to the UK, you’ll have to pay Customs Duty (if over £135 value) and Import VAT (if over £15) on top of the purchase price (including duties), though Customs Duty is waived if the amount of the calculated duty payable is £9 or less. There is also an £8 Parcel Force handling fee for collecting the Import VAT. The reason for this is that when you buy from abroad you are not paying Sales Tax from the USA.
The value of the goods for import VAT is based on the:
basic value of goods, plus
postage, packing and insurance, plus
any import (Customs or Excise) duties charged
I was advised by my mate who's a postman that they are looking at alot more goods coming from the USA, where as it used to be random checks they are now looking at all parcels. He advised me to order only from Europe where we don't have to pay the tax.
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If you buy goods online from outside the EU for delivery to the UK, you’ll have to pay Customs Duty (if over £135 value) and Import VAT (if over £15) on top of the purchase price (including duties), though Customs Duty is waived if the amount of the calculated duty payable is £9 or less. There is also an £8 Parcel Force handling fee for collecting the Import VAT. The reason for this is that when you buy from abroad you are not paying Sales Tax from the USA.
The value of the goods for import VAT is based on the:
basic value of goods, plus
postage, packing and insurance, plus
any import (Customs or Excise) duties charged
I was advised by my mate who's a postman that they are looking at alot more goods coming from the USA, where as it used to be random checks they are now looking at all parcels. He advised me to order only from Europe where we don't have to pay the tax.
It doesn't work the other way though, right?
Gracias,
Glenn
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<snip>
The value of the goods for import VAT is based on the:
basic value of goods, plus
postage, packing and insurance, plus
any import (Customs or Excise) duties charged
<snip>
You pay VAT upon the postage too? ??? Isn't that already a government charged fee for service?
You are taxed on the packing? How is that figured?
You pay VAT on Insurance? How is that related?
AND you pay VAT on the Custom/Excise duties (Tax by another name IMO) also?
Gracias,
Glenn
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If you buy goods online from outside the EU for delivery to the UK, you’ll have to pay Customs Duty (if over £135 value) and Import VAT (if over £15) on top of the purchase price (including duties), though Customs Duty is waived if the amount of the calculated duty payable is £9 or less. There is also an £8 Parcel Force handling fee for collecting the Import VAT. The reason for this is that when you buy from abroad you are not paying Sales Tax from the USA.
The value of the goods for import VAT is based on the:
basic value of goods, plus
postage, packing and insurance, plus
any import (Customs or Excise) duties charged
that's pretty much it but you must also be aware that Royal Mail / Parcel Force may not be the carrier and most of the others such as DHL etc. charge an even higher handling fee
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Thanks for the explanation! :D
It doesn't work the other way though, right?
Not as far as I know - never had any trouble sending to the USA, so long as there's a CN22 customs form on it. Mind you, I've always ticked the box which says 'gift' as it's not official documentation, a commercial sample and so on and so forth.
You pay VAT upon the postage too? ??? Isn't that already a government charged fee for service?
You are taxed on the packing? How is that figured?
You pay VAT on Insurance? How is that related?
AND you pay VAT on the Custom/Excise duties (Tax by another name IMO) also?
That's what gets me, paying a charge on a charge...
Makes it far too expensive to order anything from the USA really. (If only Khurusan had a UK, or even Europe, stockist!)
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(If only Khurusan had a UK, or even Europe, stockist!)
That's not going to happen anytime soon, as far as I know. :'(
I've seen people argue about how 3D printers are going to be as cheap as chips and every household will be falling over themselves to get one so they can print out a replacement washer or something once in a blue moon. Most of it sounds like bunk, TBH, although I can see something driving the development of domestic printers: the demented charges and restrictions that Royal Mail and others slap on everything.
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So, for those in the know, what about duties on personal parcels? I.e. not items ordered online and despatched to the UK, but sent as a gift or whatnot? Do they come in for duties? I'm sure I've had parcels from friends in Baltimore before which I didn't have to pay duty on. Presumably I could make an order, have it sent to someone in the States, and then have them send it over... (if I asked nicely :D)
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If you buy goods online from outside the EU for delivery to the UK, you’ll have to pay Customs Duty (if over £135 value) and Import VAT (if over £15) on top of the purchase price (including duties), though Customs Duty is waived if the amount of the calculated duty payable is £9 or less. There is also an £8 Parcel Force handling fee for collecting the Import VAT. The reason for this is that when you buy from abroad you are not paying Sales Tax from the USA.
The value of the goods for import VAT is based on the:
basic value of goods, plus
postage, packing and insurance, plus
any import (Customs or Excise) duties charged
I was advised by my mate who's a postman that they are looking at alot more goods coming from the USA, where as it used to be random checks they are now looking at all parcels. He advised me to order only from Europe where we don't have to pay the tax.
That's the same BS in the Netherlands too, we have the private company TNT. As an ex-pat, I always suspected the USPS was a national treasure, now I know it.
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You pay VAT upon the postage too? ??? Isn't that already a government charged fee for service?
You are taxed on the packing? How is that figured?
You pay VAT on Insurance? How is that related?
AND you pay VAT on the Custom/Excise duties (Tax by another name IMO) also?
Gracias,
Glenn
The government doesn't own our postal service anymore :(
Basically they take the total overall value (contents, postage cost etc) before they apply the charges so it all gets bundled together irrespective of what it is.
So, for those in the know, what about duties on personal parcels? I.e. not items ordered online and despatched to the UK, but sent as a gift or whatnot? Do they come in for duties? I'm sure I've had parcels from friends in Baltimore before which I didn't have to pay duty on. Presumably I could make an order, have it sent to someone in the States, and then have them send it over... (if I asked nicely :D)
Technically the rules are exactly the same for items marked 'gift' but the £15 limit is doubled to £30. In practice however they are much more likely to just let it through, particularly as the value on the form tends to be understated.
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He advised me to order only from Europe where we don't have to pay the tax.
Technically, you are still paying tax. In Europe it's just included in the price when we buy things.
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Technically, you are still paying tax. In Europe it's just included in the price when we buy things.
So, they "get you" either way.
From a bureaucracy viewpoint, that's perfect.
From my viewpoint, that is... not.
Gracias,
Glenn
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So, they "get you" either way.
I believe there is sales tax in most of US too. And you are supposed to pay it for out of state mail order too, though this at least used to be so common form of tax fraud they generally didn't bother with prosecuting for it....
It's just a cultural difference: In Europe prices are usually shown inclusive of tax (and in fact there are laws against advertising "plus tax" prices), while in the US generally tax is added at the cash register and you never know what anything really costs until they ring it up.
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The government doesn't own our postal service anymore :(
<snip>
Technically the USPS is "semi-owned."
And "change" seems to be the new stability - http://www.zdnet.com/poshmark-usps-collaboration-could-spell-big-changes-for-e-commerce-7000027406/
Gracias,
Glenn
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So, for those in the know, what about duties on personal parcels? I.e. not items ordered online and despatched to the UK, but sent as a gift or whatnot? Do they come in for duties? I'm sure I've had parcels from friends in Baltimore before which I didn't have to pay duty on. Presumably I could make an order, have it sent to someone in the States, and then have them send it over... (if I asked nicely :D)
If the value of the gifts in the consignment (not including shipping and insurance costs) does not exceed £40 (€45, or equivalent in local currency) and the customs declaration is correct, duty and VAT will not be paid on the gifts. If it's more than £40 you will have to pay.
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The official HMRC page is here (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/customs/post/buying.htm)
Nowadays I make sure that I keep the order under £15 (about $25), excluding p&p. Given the current cost of figures, that comes in about 4 or 5 at a time.
Much as I object to import and VAT, it's the post office handling charge that really irritates me >:(
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I've been deterred from ordering a felt highway from HottzMatts for a long time due to the Post Office's special fees. It almost feels like it would be a good idea to get a buyers club together so save a few quid on postal fees. Probably far more effort and bother than its worth though.
MM.
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I've been deterred from ordering a felt highway from HottzMatts for a long time due to the Post Office's special fees.
I haven't paid any customs fees for my Hotz items thus far - but that's because I haven't even received yet the order I made in February 2013 or so. :-I
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I'm in Germany, not UK, so this may or may not be applicable. However, in my experience, ordering gaming supplies from the US is a gamble. Sometimes, the parcel goes through no questions asked, and with no extra taxes or charges. And sometimes, the customs people open the package, are unable to put all these miniatures and whatnot in their little official tax categories, and then make you pay two or three hours of your life, and a randomly decided tax (I'm actually certain that the last time, they just made a tax up to get things over with).
Since I had to explain to some Cro-Magnon tax bureaucrat what a CCG is, at length, I try to order from EU countries. Which is a pity, as most of Khurasan's stock is damn tempting.
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Oddly, I haven't paid any customs fees on imported stuff for over a year. Normally this makes sense because there's an exemption for anything under $25 and I was making small buys, but I've made some big orders in the past six months and didn't get dinged once. Not complaining mind you! Maybe the raised the exemption limit?
By the way though - has anyone bought anything on ebay where additional "Import Charges" are listed. Does ebay actually charge you those fees when you pay, or is that just a sort of warning like "You'll probably be charged this much by your own nation's customs"? I've avoided those auctions like necrotic plague, I can't find any clear information online, and I'd really prefer not to over pay for one of those auctions just to find out (they tend to mostly appear on auctions with horribly overpriced shipping anyway...).
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Maybe the raised the exemption limit?
More likely they just happened to miss your packages. The detection rate is far below 100%, though they typically learn to recognize packages from the big online retailers like Amazon.
By the way though - has anyone bought anything on ebay where additional "Import Charges" are listed. Does ebay actually charge you those fees when you pay,
Never seen those on eBay, but it may indicate that the seller is paying the taxes. Courier services (DHL, UPS etc.) offer this sort of service and some distance sellers like to do that because it lets them give the client a fixed price. I once ordered a suit from a HK tailor that came in that way.
But quite frankly it's mostly for the kind of people who pay others to take their car into service.
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I guess it has been already commented on but the import charges between USA and EU (UK included ;) ) is due to both parties wanting to protect their own economies - eg. guiding people of the great EU block to buy stuff from EU suppliers thus the money stays inside the EU, same goes for the US, too. We poor hobbyists feel the modern day protectionism policy in our wallets >:(
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I don't buy from the US often, and usually in small doses, as not only might they incur taxes but the postage charges of some companies are absurd. If I need a biggish order I get it sent to a hotel I am at over there and avoid them altogether.
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I guess it has been already commented on but the import charges between USA and EU (UK included ;) ) is due to both parties wanting to protect their own economies
Actually, for the most part not.
E.g. when I pay customs for gaming stuff, it's about 30% extra.
That's 24% VAT and only about 5% actual tolls.
VAT, GST, sales tax... whatever it's called, for the consumer the effect is pretty much the same. It's a tax levied on ALL purchases, with as few exceptions as possible.
When you buy domestically, the seller collects the tax and in the EU it's usually already included in the price.
When you order from abroad, the customs collects the tax directly from you (if the seller also collected it, then they shafted you -- exports should be tax exempt, but some sellers either don't know or don't care to do the paperwork).
But it's exactly the same tax -- no protectionism there.
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-- exports should be tax exempt, but some sellers either don't know or don't care to do the paperwork).
Only for a VAT registered company which most small wargames companies aren't and private sales certainly aren't.
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...and if I pay second-hand goods, local tax was already paid on it when first purchased.
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Never seen those on eBay, but it may indicate that the seller is paying the taxes. Courier services (DHL, UPS etc.) offer this sort of service and some distance sellers like to do that because it lets them give the client a fixed price. I once ordered a suit from a HK tailor that came in that way.
But quite frankly it's mostly for the kind of people who pay others to take their car into service.
They seem to come up on orders where sellers are signed up to the ebay "global shipping program". And the buyer would absolutely not be paying - it's clearly listed as an additional cost, under the shipping charges.
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Only for a VAT registered company which most small wargames companies aren't and private sales certainly aren't.
The global customs system is not built to handle these local exceptions. Basically all incoming imports are considered VAT-applicable with a few exceptions.
You are not tax exempt because the seller might be in his country.
And in the case of importing second hand goods -- yes, the tax was already paid, but it was paid in the wrong country. Your taxman wants his share, and he's not getting it from the seller's country.
I used to run a company that did both intra-EU (that's actually trickier than you think) and global imports. I think I have a fairly good idea how the system works and I'm just trying to explain it.
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You are not tax exempt because the seller might be in his country.
My comment was in reply to export sales from the UK, not import, where yes, you are liable.
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My comment was in reply to export sales from the UK, not import, where yes, you are liable.
Yes, I was perhaps oversimplifying the issue.
If your seller does not deduct tax for exports, it might be because he is already advertising tax exempt prices for whatever reason. That unfortunately does not mean you don't need to pay taxes on the import.
I don't think anyone is actively defrauding their clients. I've done this and I know how complicated it can be and what hassle the paperwork is. For a small operator doing only very little export it's much easier to simply ring the order up as a local sale even if that means the taxes get paid twice.
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It's all about "Revenue Enhancement" which wouldn't be always bad if it only paid for (relatively) necessary functions - whatever you want that to mean - but if your pork barrel politicians are even vaguely like our pork barrel politicians... and I will leave it there to avoid overt politics.
Gracias,
Glenn
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This is probably obvious but this applies to Ebay too, doesn't it?
Edit: another joy diminished.
Gracias,
Glenn
Edit: Yes, this may be thread-whatever but it is not that old...
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Contrary to what someone said before the Royal Mail do not check every parcel, for a start they are not that efficient, and I should know as I own a Post Office.
My own recent experience is that I ordered up a pile of X-Wing stuff as it is not available here in the UK, for whatever reasons, the first parcel was around $100 at least, saved about £20, got through no bother. I quickly ordered another and it got hit, I see the point of the tax, but the £8 handling charge bites, savings this time fell to £4, but I got what I wanted. Almost the same thing happened with my son, I suspect because of the short time between these parcels the second in both cases 'flagged up?'
I sent for another parcel, this time around $30 worth after a fair lapse of time and it got through.
So unless it is a large box or of a substantial amount you will probably get away with it, but it's simply your donald duck!
My main reason for going to the US was that supply of what I wanted in the UK is terrible, the side benefit is that it is usually cheaper, despite the postage. I used an outfit called Miniature Market and I cannot fault them, quick, reliable service, at least for me.