Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: Too Bo Coo on 03 May 2014, 04:25:56 AM
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I'd also love to know why you prefer a particular scale.
Cheers! :D
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I find 28mm easier to paint and I like how they look on the table.
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Yes, it very much depends on what You like about wargaming.
if it is about the larger offensives and the brigade scale manoeuvring, the small scales are better or maybe even no miniatures at all.
On a battlegroup/flying column level You might be better off with 15-20mm because You have a balance between the effective range/mobility and the eye candy,
whereas for commando/paratroop style infiltration it has to be 28mm or even 54mm.
depends on Your approach :D
if You like to watch movies, it is 28mm, if You prefer the books or strategy based computer games, it might be a smaller scale where You can make use of combined arms tactics.
In any case, stay away from rulesets that try to squeeze in everything just for the sake of selling expensive vehicles. There is no way a tank platoon will not imbalance a company size infantry skirmish, unless in an urban area...
and so does the discussion go on ;)
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20mm is, at least for me, an obvious choice. It looks nearly as good as 28mm, costs a fraction to buy especially when using plastics, takes up less space on the table so your table gets bigger and the choices for troops, vehicles and terrain are practically endless.
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What a conundrum, I had to vote for a scale that I don't prefer! Sounds, crazy, huh?
Hear me out on this: I prefer 28mm for the detail and typical quality of the figures on the market; I like the heft and accuracy of the vehicles that are offered; and I appreciate the look of larger terrain features such as building and trees. Unfortunately, 15mm is much better option as a scale for gaming. It is big enough to do skirmish yet small enough to base for grand tactical, or strategic games. There is an amazing number of figures and models offered leaving very few gaps in the gamer's realm of historical scenarios. Lastly, buildings are not only more numerous, they are insanely cheaper in price.
Enough trumpeting the horn of 15mm over 28mm. Me, I still choose 28mm. While the listed lauding for 15mm is valid, the quality of figure sculpts, vehicles, and terrain pieces cannot compare to what is 28mm. While there are some treasures here and there in the 15mm arena, they only make up a minor fraction of the total offerings. Too often the products leave me speechless [if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all]. Globs of lead being passed as detailed figures, chunks of metal that can only be best described as a general representation of a particular vehicle, and undersized, pin-holed messes of resin that are supposed to portray buildings [at least that is what I am told].
I know I am in a minority of opinion, or 15mm wouldn't be so popular. I felt that the vote was not so much for me, as for the gaming community in general. In my house, it's my collections and my table, therefore my preference and happiness is paramount. Viva 28mm!! ;D
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I did not vote for the simple fact that I do not believe there is a 'superior' scale for world war two. It end up on what you have to do. 15mm is good for some things, 20 or 28mm for others, 6 and 10 for other again. even 3mm has its own advantages. As quality, I haver seen 28mm sculpts that look god awful and 3mm tanks that are wonders. Said that I own 3mm, 6mm, 10mm, 15mm and 28mm.... oh alco a couple of 20mm but they are just remnants of my old collection I have not been able to sell/trade...
Arrigo
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For me it's 20mm ... just ... a whisker ahead of 28mm. I think of 28mm as skirmish gaming scale, which I do enjoy, but for company (or squadron) sized games with a moderate use of armour I just think 20mm/1:72 clinches it. I think it gives you the best chance to use infantry and armour (not to mention aircraft) together properly, instead of one playing second fiddle to the other.
Plus, it's nostalgic since I grew up playing with Airfix 1:72 toy soldiers.
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I play in 15mm as it suits my needs for all eras not just WWII, 20mm though is my all time favourite as it's what I grew up with. Decided a few years ago to use only one scale to minimise the amount of terrain required and at the time there was not really the coverage for pre WWII gaming in 20mm unless I went for soft plastic and even that was not ideal. I've tried 6mm, 10mm & 28mm too. In the end it came down to what I had the most of and what I wanted to achieve. Starting from scratch today though I'd go for 10mm hands down good detail for small models (and in some cases much better than many larger figures) ranges are expanding all the time and to top it all the guys at Pendraken are great to deal with. So I voted 10mm.
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I have lots of both 15mm and 28mm stuff. As I get older, the 28mm are easier to paint. I also have been hooked on skirmish games, and the 28's look more impressive on the table.
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For my aging eyes 28mm are easier if you want individual details but for simple block painting and wash 15mm or 10mm are a piece of cake.
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I like 20mm (1/72), as grow up with home rules and then with Rapid Fire!. The figures and models are in the same scale and there are a lot of models available (I prefer hard plastic models). However I would never tell NO for 28mm, 15mm and 10mm. They are great as well, but the 20mm stays as the best for me. Less than 10mm is for naval games only ;)
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My preference would skirmish so a small number of miniatures would involved thus 28mm seems to be the correct choice. However, there is one big obstacle. It is difficult to find hardware in a suitable scale. So perhaps 20mm or 1/72 would a more wiser choice.
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I'm sort of crushed in a few choices. I like 28mm, they are really nice for skirmish which is more my seed these days... But I have a bunch of unplanted 15mm but 10mm looks really nice and pendraken not only has really nice stuff but they're pretty cheap in comparison to 15 and def 28s. Oh what to do!?
For 28s I like Offensive and Warlord, but can't decide which. I'm thinking German paras....
Heeeelp! :)
Oh, and thanks for all the great feedback Gents!
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If i had to make my choice of what miniatures to use for Vietnam all over again, i'd choose 20mm or 1/72.
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Had to say 28mm even though I have big forces in 15mm too.
Would love to play in 6mm some day and I have seen the wonders of 20mm, hm, there's too many scales out there! ;)
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20mm of course, nothing else comes close for quality and variety.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1/1560701_279852065500573_1046536544_n.jpg)
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10 mm
Smaller scale = more tanks for your money!
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC02903_zpsfa7fd01b.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC02903_zpsfa7fd01b.jpg.html)
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6mm, it is the only scale (but 3mm would work too but not on your list) that comes close to capturing the actual dispersion of troops, weapon ranges and combat areas of WW2 battles. Any other scale is to a greater or worse extent an exercise in too many models in too small a space. Making weapon ranges laughably small in order to get the figures on the table.
Even games designed for 20 or 28mm figures look better when the models are substituted with 6mm figures. The same does not apply the other way round.
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For me its 28mm,mainly because I'm clumsy,and I find it easier to repair.
But I've noticed its more a matter of how many bases/tray's your willing to push round a table before it takes the fun out of the game,rather than the scale.
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28mm As most of us (thank God) I prefer this scale as it allows sculpts to have enough detail and character to create fantastic looking figures!
Smaller scales just cant reach the level of quality 28mm top productions have plus an army in 28mm is something to look at!
Best regards
Gui
www.gothiclineminiatures.com
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I voted 20mm but prefer 28mm. :?
20mm is a better scale for the size games I like to play and the variety in models is incredible compaired to 28s.I use 1/48 and 1/50 vehicles so the new greater variety in 1/56 means nothing to me.
20mm has the detail in figures and models 15mm just don't have for me and the vehicles are still large enough to not look like matchbox cars or just markers on the table.
I tried 15s for FOW but ,even though I had over 700 vehicles, it just left me feeling like I had painted up a bunch of counters.I did make a crapton of money when I sold them though. :)
If I had it to do all over again I would probably go with 20mm or even 1/56 but with well over 2000 troops and 2-300 vehicles in 28mm its a little too late to start over.
Pete
Edit:I should also have added the smallest table we play on is 8X4.Most of the time its 16X4 or 20X5.Its fun with 28mm bet it would be a blast with 20mm.
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28mm As most of us (tank God) I prefer this scale as it allows sculpts to have enough detail and character to create fantastic looking figures!
Smaller scales just cant reach the level of quality 28mm top productions have plus an army in 28mm is something to look at!
Best regards
Gui
www.gothiclineminiatures.com
well... the usual abomination... as much I respect opinion here this short can be taken for some of the less stellar individual around. Nothing against Gui, it is just that this short post grates me quite a lot it is that for just a coincidence he used the same words that once someone used... and that someone was a quite nasty and disgusting individual... sorry Gui you ended up in the wrong place ;) ...
Anyway Gui makes a good point 28mm tends on average ot be nice and characterful, but are we talking of the individual figure or of the whole game? Well 28mm makes everything except very small engagement silly. I have seen countless tables were the scale distortion was so great just go get in some big stuff that the miniatures looked just like oversized counters. Well, miniatures are counters in the end, but we agree that to a certain extent we can suspend our disbelief and accept them as more than counters, yet when we our miniatures are not fitting properly in the table we have a problem, I for example start to miss the point to have a caricatured table were tanks are firing at each others at ping-pong ranges...
I am pretty much pissed off by people who thinks a scale is by its own virtue, out of context, with no qualification, superior to the other. Or people who think that scale preference as something to do with god (Sorry Gui but why you have to thank God of more people favoring 28mm over other scales? If you tell me that this is positive because they buy your miniatures and you can have money for hobby and family is OK... but without context or smilies the comment can be read ina disparaging way). Top productions in any scale have top production value. I am quite in agreement with Piers on the merit of 20mm miniatures (especially painted by him). I will admit that if I have to start again I will switch 28mm for 20mm. Cheaper and more selection available in my own specific areas of interests. But one the other hand I do not see 28mm or 20mm as a satisfactory scale for larger engagements. The table size cannot change too much (space at home, lenght of my arms...) and I have reached a point of my gaming life were scale distortion is anathema for me. Everything with more than a reinforced squad in 28mm on a 6x4 table is silly. By the same token company games in 15mm on the same surface tends to look weird. I have also realized that bigger scales tend to be more unforgiving. In several occasions at Salute (of all the places) I turned away from a 28mm table because the terrain was ugly and the miniatures badly painted.
20mm is a better scale for the size games I like to play
this is one of the best statement here. Context and framework. otherwise it is just the church of one true scale and its heresies...
Arrigo
IMPORTANT EDIT: (caps intended to make it more important). The:
the less stellar individual around.
and quite nasty and disgusting individual
mentioned in the post is not Gui, but someone I had the misfortune to bump into in the past who was indeed quite agressive in telling everyone that people not playing/collecting in his own scale we were well you got the idea... Apologies to everyone who though I was attacking Gui (who indeed produces some very good 28mm troops).
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For myself, I game for 2 reasons, the games and the hobby end. The smallest scale I've worked on was Classic Battletech which is 6mm but large, and 15mm FOW. But as I look at my future I see the need to play even skirmishes, in a smaller space. I never really go enthusiastic about 15mm, I have to say I've spent a fair bit of time staring at them trying to make out what kit they had on. So I thought 10mm must be even worse. Then I saw Pendraken. The only reason I hadnt bought outright was that I have a box of 15mm that I feel guilty about having and getting a new scale. But I think I'm going to sell them off and go the 10mm route. I think for my own tastes, the models are very nice, the price is very nice and the new challenge is very nice. I can build a 60x60 table and use it for some nice games even with a little armor. I'm also fine with them in a skirmish of only a few minis. My other issue is that I think I'll need to supply two sides for my games, so this way for what I have in FoW items I can make 2 10mm armies of a good size for games I'm interested in. I also have to say, I've always looked suspiciously at engagement range since my 40k days, so I think taking most rules and just changing my scale to 10mm, will look better to my eye. Of course, your mileage may vary... My original plan was to play CoC at 15mm, but I think I can go to 10mm just fine. And if I care to I can always just buy 500pts of 28mm to screw around with, enough for an infantry skirmish. Let someone else do the buildings and such :D
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Agreed, pendraken is the way to go!
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20mm for nice big games with lots of troops and armour, 28mm most definate for skirmish games.
I prefer to paint 28mm cos my fading eyes can see them. As time goes on the worse they get i'll move up to 1/32nd scale and beyond, eventually ending with a table full of 'Action Man dolls' lol
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I voted for 6mm but play in 28mm due to being to committed to it already.
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For me, I have a mass of 1/76 and 1/72 AFVs and figs...so this works for me. I think 15mm is a good idea but for me it is far too small to see and paint and in any event I don't consider them to be really models per se and I enjoy building and upgrading my AFVs...so 1/76 and 1/72 get my bit. That said, I also do a lot of stuff in 28mm using 1/48 sized AFVs, as these look better to me then 1/56...which just looks way too small next to the figs. Just my thoughts...to each his/her own I say.
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Dumb question, may I say, cause the answer is: all of them.
28mm for clashes between patrols, team vs team, but nothing bigger. I'm planning to get me some Warlord infantry, but I'm waiting for Italeri to release smaller sets of these (I doubt I'll ever need 20 soldiers).
20mm and 15mm for platoon level battles, with up to 10 vehicles. Been thinking about both of these scales, finally settled for 15mm, because it was easier to get Continuation War Finns in this scale (and a month after I bought two platoons of FoW Finns, Strelets released their 1/72 plastics...).
Nobody plays 10mm in Poland, so that's the only scale I would not consider.
6mm and 3mm for real battles, preferring 3mm due to easy access to the splendid and cheap Oddział Ósmy's minis. Though I'm using 6mm for air battles (with up to 15 planes per side), simply because the bigger planes look nicer IMHO.
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28mm for several reasons. First my eyesight isn't getting any better, and I like to see what I'm gaming with! Second, I have started with this scale because the price was reasonable, and it still is for skirmish games which is all I play. Finally I just like them!
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20mm of course, nothing else comes close for quality and variety.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1/1560701_279852065500573_1046536544_n.jpg)
Who makes these?
Are you familiar with the Valiant Plastics?
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Well I voted 15 mm but it depends.
1) I don't have any WW2 armies any more and have decided to not start the WW2 PTO forces I wanted to a few years ago, hence no 20 mm which is the local gold standard for WW2 non-skirmish battles.
2) My over all size preference for my prime interests is (Air Combat and mass battles is 3 mm which was not on the list or 6 mm,) which makes up 100% of the former (3 mm/Air) and (for 3 mm and 6 mm) over 50% of the post-1938 historical and SF figures I currently own.
3) In some eras/genres there literally is only one scale for what I game (Soldados and Persidials are a bit thin on the ground in any scale...)
4) 15 mm seems a good compromise but so far I only have Fantasy, SF, Supers, and VSF in that size. And there are miniatures sets in 25+ mm in those that I will keep anyway for skirmish/RPG oriented games. Plus all the legacy Der Kriegspieler Fantasy figures... sigh.
5) It does depend to a degree on what your local group is willing to play and the scale of your individual game plus all the "preferences" (rational or not) mentioned above.
Gracias,
Glenn
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Who makes these?
Are you familiar with the Valiant Plastics?
They look like AB to me. Those babies are the dog's wotsits.
(http://www.treefrogtreasures.com/reference/tw1images/AB.jpg)
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Well I voted 15 mm but it depends.
1) I don't have any WW2 armies any more and have decided to not start the WW2 PTO forces I wanted to a few years ago,<snip>
Just when I thought it as safe to stay out of the water I see that NUTS, Final Version, may be released in June, 2014. And will be fully compatible with the PTO supplement...
I am thinking I will get sucked in. The only good thing is that I get to start from scratch...
Guess I need to revisit WW2 scale issues...
Gracias,
Glenn