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Miniatures Adventure => Interwar => Topic started by: Lluís of Minairons on 11 June 2014, 10:16:30 PM

Title: SCW 20mm Militiawomen by Minairons
Post by: Lluís of Minairons on 11 June 2014, 10:16:30 PM
Hi all,

Some time ago we let you know our purpose of widening our Spanish Civil War 20mm figures range with a new set consisting of Republican Militiawomen, by showing you in this thread (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=64971.0) a sample figure.

Well, the whole set is already finished. It is to consist of a total of 19 figures including officer, standard bearer, a couple NCOs, thirteen riflewomen and an LMG team - no repeated poses there, all 19 figures are unique.

Here you have captions of all them:

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-dfuyX9wu24Y/U5dOwBLYS-I/AAAAAAAAIKA/4qT6ib64oxw/s800/20GEF011_16_5.jpg)
The group commander, closely inspired in the historical character of captain Mika Feldman

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-HuOSsLLwg9A/U5dOwOjDXmI/AAAAAAAAIJ8/5M8_80uvM4k/s800/20GEF011_17_5.jpg)
The group standard bearer. Up to three female battalions flags to be included in the set

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-YbHM5ZPtWdo/U3Opws2o6nI/AAAAAAAAH6E/K4qYURZM12E/s800/20GEF011_01_5.jpg)
A pistol armed NCO

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-FZ4pQlwCx_0/U3OpwwUX7hI/AAAAAAAAH6A/tjXD5OmnmLA/s800/20GEF011_02_5.jpg)
A second NCO, this one brandishing a Suomi SMG

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-TLkxJr0mU0c/U3OpwyhPCnI/AAAAAAAAH6I/DPnnC4rAPNU/s800/20GEF011_03_9.jpg)
A running militiawoman in a rather expectable dressing of overalls and gorrillo

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-WrUAgDeS8UU/U3OpzJGP9_I/AAAAAAAAH6U/EnFsiXZR6no/s800/20GEF011_04_9.jpg)
Another running militiawoman in a not so expectable dressing of pre-war military uniform, and bare-headed. Based on the picture of a British (or Irish perhaps?) volunteer girl

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ZqoOXoPdd80/U3OpzFBpwZI/AAAAAAAAH6Y/aqikApnF740/s800/20GEF011_05_5.jpg)
A cautiosly advancing militiawoman, whose look is a mix of a couple contemporary pictures. Please note the Lee Enfield rifle in her hands - not that difficult to find a feature in several militiawomen pictures I've happened to find

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-3aDkzZXqP00/U3d8Vn0MyCI/AAAAAAAAH7c/MniJ33OFke8/s800/20GEF011_06_5.jpg)
Another militiawoman running cautiously, or about to start running perhaps. She wears a slouch hat as headgear, intendedly of the same type used by the Spanish Foreign Legion in North Africa

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-mSBXG6mefJI/U3d8Viro5uI/AAAAAAAAH7s/KkaXrSZuxSM/s800/20GEF011_07_5.jpg)
This particular figure is inspired in several photos showing women in civilian dress being trained at handling weapons. Intentionally made to suggest lack of experience

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-XX8h5Iera9c/U3d8VxZ1e0I/AAAAAAAAH7g/EbIEKslv0HE/s800/20GEF011_08_5.jpg)
Right the opposite, her most outstanding dressing feature is the sleeveless pullover she wears over the overalls or military dress. Wholly inspired on one picture of a real militiawoman, except for having replaced the original gorrillo by a pasamontañas

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-WRM3_M8dFtE/U3d8XycsesI/AAAAAAAAH7w/cRQ-taWeLks/s800/20GEF011_09_5.jpg)
Admittedly controversial, this figure is inspired on several pictures found of women in field uniform, helmet included. I felt tempted to give her an Adrian helmet, but in the end discarded it due to all the pictures found showing Czech or Trubia helmets only

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-i0VOvvk6088/U3d8X6DCB0I/AAAAAAAAH74/h7lBdOA1bYw/s800/20GEF011_10_5.jpg)
Here, a kneeling firing helmeted girl. Please note the Lee Enfield again

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ZRZXDMnuWw0/U35B9Y9UtxI/AAAAAAAAIBc/ZP-Onrzexo4/s800/20GEF011_11_5.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-h2j5_RRmi1U/U35B-XX_58I/AAAAAAAAIBw/YtMmYG8iePM/s800/20GEF011_12_5.JPG)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-rjWM9G6zN28/U35B9a6y1TI/AAAAAAAAIBg/OuaA4OaEsY0/s800/20GEF011_13_5.jpg)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-qCiMIoW7qDk/U35B-xpSCSI/AAAAAAAAIBs/gJr8aqQNE7M/s640/20GEF011_15_5.jpg)
A lot of kneeling, crouching and crawling here, admittedly. I believed such defensive poses a lot more reasonable than charging "à la bayonette"...

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-s1XX7cy1UtU/U29Nzk0efEI/AAAAAAAAH4c/4HAih_FDzFA/s800/20GEF011_14_5.JPG)
A "Dinamitera" girl, cautiously handling her explosives

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-yfb2C9kBK7Q/U5dOxsZtGQI/AAAAAAAAIKM/MKr6Z7UuOpY/s640/20GEF011_18-19_5.jpg)
And last, the 2-girls LMG team. Note the Chauchat MG

The sculptor of this female series, Angel Terol, has taken advantage of this sculpts series for also creating a figure intended to compliment our forthcoming 1/72 scale Frontline Bookmobile kit - either as its librarian or driver, at user's will  ;)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-5d_85S2LHGY/U5dOxw8PfUI/AAAAAAAAIKQ/A5h3Imke5dA/s800/20GEV024_fig_6.jpg)
As said, this one figure isn't part of the set above, but an accessory to a vehicle model kit

Hope you like them!
Lluís Vilalta
www.minairons.eu (http://www.minairons.eu/)
Title: Re: SCW 20mm Militiawomen by Minairons
Post by: Lluís of Minairons on 11 June 2014, 10:19:28 PM
.
Title: Re: SCW 20mm Militiawomen by Minairons
Post by: Amalric on 11 June 2014, 10:24:57 PM
Those are very nice sculpts!
But I think you made a typo, shouldnt that say '28mm'?  lol
These are almost enough to lure me back to playing 20mm.
Good luck with them.
Title: Re: SCW 20mm Militiawomen by Minairons
Post by: the commissar on 11 June 2014, 10:31:51 PM
Very nice mix of uniforms/equipment and poses.

If only they were 28mm   :(
Title: Re: SCW 20mm Militiawomen by Minairons
Post by: Ray Rivers on 12 June 2014, 01:14:51 AM
Very nice sculpts.  :-*

Mind you, females are generally shorter than males.

Perhaps they could fit in with other 28mm ranges?

Any chance of a scale comparison photo?
Title: Re: SCW 20mm Militiawomen by Minairons
Post by: FramFramson on 12 June 2014, 03:54:13 AM
These came up before, and if I recall they're already quite small.

A real damned shame - even a handful in 28mm would be aces!
Title: Re: SCW 20mm Militiawomen by Minairons
Post by: The Dozing Dragon on 12 June 2014, 04:07:24 AM
Wonderful looking sculpts. Make them bigger though  ;)
Title: Re: SCW 20mm Militiawomen by Minairons
Post by: cromojaro on 12 June 2014, 09:29:17 AM
Great miniatures.
Title: Re: SCW 20mm Militiawomen by Minairons
Post by: argsilverson on 12 June 2014, 09:41:13 AM
Great ones!

Please, please make them to 28mm!
Title: Re: SCW 20mm Militiawomen by Minairons
Post by: Happy Wanderer on 12 June 2014, 09:58:55 AM
They are lovely, evocative sculpts.....really captures the spirit of the times.

Lovely.

Happy Wanderer
Title: Re: SCW 20mm Militiawomen by Minairons
Post by: maxxon on 12 June 2014, 10:03:35 AM
I'd buy these in 28mm...

Did you find some evidence of Suomi SMG actually being used in SCW? I was not aware of any being sold abroad pre-war.

Title: Re: SCW 20mm Militiawomen by Minairons
Post by: Lluís of Minairons on 12 June 2014, 11:01:23 AM
Thanks for your appreciations, Sirs  :)

Thanks for your insistence at asking us to reproduce them at a different than 20mm scale... but those greens aren't going to grow taller by themselves - and given our comparative sales rate for each scale, it's currently quite unlikely we endeavour it at 28mm - at a short term, at least.  :(

May I suggest you instead to switch to 1/72 - 20mm for Spanish Civil War gaming? - this is our most successful range, so that this is the one we're going  to push harder...

@maxxon: of course Suomis were used by Republicans in SCW - otherwise I wouldn't have chosen that SMG for this set. I Don't have the precise numbers here at hand, but I can let you know if wished.

Lluís
Title: Re: SCW 20mm Militiawomen by Minairons
Post by: maxxon on 12 June 2014, 11:55:40 AM
Quote from: Lluís of Minairons on 12 June 2014, 11:01:23 AM
@maxxon: of course Suomis were used by Republicans in SCW - otherwise I wouldn't have chosen that SMG for this set. I Don't have the precise numbers here at hand, but I can let you know if wished.

Hi,

 I'd love to get the source for this. I looked into the matter and it is true that they tried to export the guns in early 30's but detailed information is very hard to come by. Apparently some were sold to China(!!) and used by local warlords and some went to South America, but I couldn't find references to any other export countries or numbers. Based on the local production numbers for the period, probably very few guns were actually exported.

A Russian spy stole the blueprints, but it seems the Russians didn't actually do anything with them before the Winter War.

Licensed copies were also made in Sweden, Denmark (not before the war) and Switzerland (not sure when production started). Anyway a gun with a drum mag is most likely an original Finnish production one.

Title: Re: SCW 20mm Militiawomen by Minairons
Post by: Lluís of Minairons on 12 June 2014, 04:11:57 PM
According to my sources, one ship named "Iciar" arrived in a harbour in the North (Bilbao perhaps?) carrying various weaponry, likely purchased by the Basque Government. Among its various cargo, there were some 50 Bergmann MP18, besides of several MP28, MP34 (those latter manufactured in Danmark for sure), Suomi mod. 31 and Tallinn mod. 23 - no numbers found of this shipment, though.
However, a second ship named "Yorkbrook" brought in over 400 Suomi later.

Cheers,
Lluís
Title: Re: SCW 20mm Militiawomen by Minairons
Post by: CorvetteK225 on 12 June 2014, 04:12:32 PM
Quote from: Happy Wanderer on 12 June 2014, 09:58:55 AM
They are lovely, evocative sculpts.....really captures the spirit of the times.

Lovely.

Happy Wanderer

I must wholeheartedly agree!

David
Title: Re: SCW 20mm Militiawomen by Minairons
Post by: marcusluis on 12 June 2014, 07:42:48 PM
 :o :o :o
Title: Re: SCW 20mm Militiawomen by Minairons
Post by: Burnin Coal on 12 June 2014, 07:50:08 PM
 :o :o :o Absolutely wonderful miniatures  :-* :-* :-*....but not in 28mm  :'(  :'(  :'(

I can appreciate that you need to push your excellent 20mm range....but I think you would be VERY surprised at how many of these you would sell in 28mm....thanks for sharing and hope your sales are high with these
Title: Re: SCW 20mm Militiawomen by Minairons
Post by: scrivs on 12 June 2014, 10:09:58 PM
They do look excellent, but rather too small for my needs.
Title: Re: SCW 20mm Militiawomen by Minairons
Post by: Slayer on 12 June 2014, 10:42:47 PM
looks like ill be a first classme customer. perfect for my VECW :-* :-*
Title: Re: SCW 20mm Militiawomen by Minairons
Post by: maxxon on 13 June 2014, 06:08:01 AM
Quote from: Lluís of Minairons on 12 June 2014, 04:11:57 PM
However, a second ship named "Yorkbrook" brought in over 400 Suomi later.

Interesting. That is an extremely high number considering we only had 4000 of them when the Winter War started.

Can you date this shipment?

I'll have to check my books if I can find more on export numbers.
Title: Re: SCW 20mm Militiawomen by Minairons
Post by: WillieB on 13 June 2014, 10:11:10 AM
I can only chime in that I would certainly buy them in 28mm, as well as multiple boxes/sets of your Republican and Nationalist infantry.
That said these 20mm sets are lovely and I sincerely hope they sell like hot cakes.

Perhaps a Kickstarter for 28mm?
Title: Re: SCW 20mm Militiawomen by Minairons
Post by: maxxon on 13 June 2014, 10:29:45 AM
I just wanted to add that these will probably sell better than the 28mm vehicles currently offered.

The vehicles are for a very specific period, their price point is fairly high (as is typical for vehicles in this scale) and most gamers won't need more than a couple at most. 28mm vehicles don't sell too well for any period, let alone a fairly obscure one.

I do realize you can't just rescale them like with digital sculpting, but the examples clearly show the skill is there. Maybe you could do a set of 8 as a test?

Unlike the vehicles the figures would be more universal, have more attractive price point and can easily be bought in multiples by a single gamer.
Title: Re: SCW 20mm Militiawomen by Minairons
Post by: Burnin Coal on 13 June 2014, 05:08:30 PM
Quote from: maxxon on 13 June 2014, 10:29:45 AM
I do realize you can't just rescale them like with digital sculpting, but the examples clearly show the skill is there. Maybe you could do a set of 8 as a test?

Unlike the vehicles the figures would be more universal, have more attractive price point and can easily be bought in multiples by a single gamer.

What he said....it's the one thing that is missing in 28mm....

Quote from: WillieB on 13 June 2014, 10:11:10 AM
That said these 20mm sets are lovely and I sincerely hope they sell like hot cakes.....Perhaps a Kickstarter for 28mm?

What he said as well....I'm in
Title: Re: SCW 20mm Militiawomen by Minairons
Post by: Arlequín on 13 June 2014, 05:42:58 PM
Quote from: Burnin Coal on 13 June 2014, 05:08:30 PM
What he said....it's the one thing that is missing in 28mm....

Not quite, a few of us gave Empress a quite long list of what was missing in 28mm a while ago and it wasn't just milicianas. They appear to be working their way through it.  ;)

Personally I quite like there being an excellent quality range in either scale. I'm even tempted to dabble in both, as has been mentioned 28mm vehicles tend to be far more costly and their use somewhat limited on a typical table.

Small 'infantry' forces in 28mm and larger 'combined-arms' ones in 20mm will probably work out no more expensive than just one size and will be far more practical as regards playing area. 

I can of course see why people should want these in 28mm, they are rather special.  :)
Title: Re: SCW 20mm Militiawomen by Minairons
Post by: Durutti on 13 June 2014, 06:36:17 PM
Republican forces certainly had access to the Suomi and the PPD34
http://www.sbhac.net/Republica/Fuerzas/Armas/Infanteria/Subfusiles/Subfusiles.htm

Yorkbrook, could not find Suomi's listed on its cargo manifest, it was said to be carrying Japanese field guns, and its quite a famous ship
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=95969&hilit


Lovely figures, something I would have liked to have got round to, had I not sold Anglian.
Title: Re: SCW 20mm Militiawomen by Minairons
Post by: Lluís of Minairons on 13 June 2014, 07:40:26 PM
Quote from: Arlequín on 13 June 2014, 05:42:58 PM
...a quite long list of what was missing in 28mm a while ago and it wasn't just milicianas. They appear to be working their way through it.

This is the real matter behind. All I've learnt at this regard is that every shy trial I've given to 1/56 scale has been quickly countered and overtaken by several new releases by... other brands you all know. I cannot take the risk of entering into a crazy race against a quite stronger and long reputed brand without pitifully wrecking sooner than later. And starting to make figures means getting involved in such a race for sure, because one single figures set would never be enough incentive for boosting a whole range. Instead, I'd be requested to expand the range furthermore. That is, thrown straight into the race.

Quote from: WillieB on 13 June 2014, 10:11:10 AM
Perhaps a Kickstarter for 28mm?

Perhaps, just perhaps - it couldn't be a Kickstarter though, because it's restricted to US and UK based endeavourings. It should be an IndieGogo or similar - quite less popular, as you know.

Quote from: Durutti on 13 June 2014, 06:36:17 PM
Yorkbrook, could not find Suomi's listed on its cargo manifest

My source is "Atlas Ilustrado de Armas y Uniformes de la Guerra Civil Española", Susaeta publisher, ISBN 978-84-305-7036-2, hardcover, 252 pages.
Submachine guns are discussed in pages 192-194. There they state 410 Suomi mod. 31 cal. 9mm Parabellum to have been brought by "Yorkbrook" - although that precise paragraph is not supported by a bibliographical quotation as we'd greet.

Cheers,
Lluís

Title: Re: SCW 20mm Militiawomen by Minairons
Post by: Burnin Coal on 13 June 2014, 08:01:02 PM
Quote from: Lluís of Minairons on 13 June 2014, 07:40:26 PM
This is the real matter behind. All I've learnt at this regard is that every shy trial I've given to 1/56 scale has been quickly countered and overtaken by several new releases by... other brands you all know....
Cheers,
Lluís


Can completely understand this Lluis - my wishing for 28mm was simply because they are so good....wouldn't want anything to derail all your endeavours....so I wish you good fortune amigo
Title: Re: SCW 20mm Militiawomen by Minairons
Post by: Arlequín on 14 June 2014, 08:42:30 AM
The problem with a lot of Republican arms shipments is that they were not usually listed on cargo manifests for obvious reasons, except on Soviet ships. The old stereotypical line about 'machine parts' and 'agricultural implements' meaning guns on manifests probably had its origins with SCW blockade runners. Republican records on what was received sometimes give the truth, but these are often lost or destroyed.

The book Lluís gives is an excellent resource and the authors seem not to have listed weapons often 'imagined' to have been supplied, but for which there is no actual evidence. If they have listed Suomis they most likely had some documentation to support that statement. How those weapons were acquired is probably an interesting story in itself.

:)
Title: Re: SCW 20mm Militiawomen by Minairons
Post by: maxxon on 16 June 2014, 06:52:13 AM
Quote from: Durutti on 13 June 2014, 06:36:17 PM
Republican forces certainly had access to the Suomi and the PPD34
http://www.sbhac.net/Republica/Fuerzas/Armas/Infanteria/Subfusiles/Subfusiles.htm

Yorkbrook, could not find Suomi's listed on its cargo manifest, it was said to be carrying Japanese field guns, and its quite a famous ship
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=95969&hilit

I do not doubt the guns were there, I'm just very curious where they really came from. Even the link you gave me claims there's discrepancies in the information (gun serial numbers being later production than the shipment date).

I know we sold off a old post-Russian Japanese "mountain guns", but the army actually getting rid of submachineguns seems very odd. The Japanese guns were sold because they were found not good enough and the army wanted to replace them all with something else.

Here's numbers produced for the Finnish Army prior to the War:

pre-1935 275 pcs
1935 500 pcs
1936 1000 pcs
1937 1264 pcs
1938 150 pcs
1939 1172 pcs totaling 4361 pcs

As you can see, skimming 400 guns off the top in 1936 would have been a very sizable chunk, nevermind that these guns were present in Winter War. In addition, given the political climate of the time, direct sales to Republicans would have been very odd.

The guns were manufactured by a private company that did do export on the side, but it's very hard to find exact information about this.

I have an article about those mountain guns somewhere. I'll try to dig it up and see if there's any additional information.
Title: Re: SCW 20mm Militiawomen by Minairons
Post by: Arlequín on 16 June 2014, 08:43:14 AM
It does seem to be an anomaly. Almost regardless, the weapons sold/supplied to both sides were older surplus items. The only exceptions seem to be things like the Soviet BT-5 tanks and I-16 fighters in the main. Even the new German types were retained by the Condor Legion, with the exception of the 'dead ends' like the HE-112.

Short of a fantastical James Bond-like tale involving Finnish communists working within the factory or elsewhere, I can think of no way that these weapons could of ended up in Spain. Certainly it is a mystery, to which the actual story of their journey is probably far less exciting than I imagine it to be.

:)