Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Old West => Topic started by: Major Weenie on 27 July 2008, 08:08:19 AM
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And now it's time to promote my favorite 'Wild West' period, El Gran Revolucion, or 'The Mexican Revolution' 1910 - 1920 , or 1910 - 1930, depending upon which historians you believe. If you like gaming the Wild West and/or you like gaming Colonial, and/or you like gaming W.W.I then this is for you. First, try to ignore my high strung enthusiasm for the period, second go out and buy the book "Villa and Zapata" by McLynn.
For those new to the subject, think of it as; The Fall of the Roman Republic, gradually stumbling into The Thirty Years War, but with Colonial troops (admittedly the Federales were inferior Colonial troops), Wild West adventurers, General Black Jack Pershing intervening to chase Pancho Villa across the Chihuahua desert... Oh, and don't forget the very first use of aeroplanes to attack (bomb is not quite the right term, in the first two attacks they used leaflets and a pom-pom gun) an enemy fleet.
Here's a link to one of our local games
http://thebengalclubla.com/tbc_game01.asp (http://thebengalclubla.com/tbc_game01.asp)
And here some of our latest conversions. All are Copplestone BOB Chinese, with the puttees covered over with automobile glazing putty, which was then sanded down to long trousers. The Asian features of the infantrymen are repeatedly explained away during games by saying that these figures are from the battalions of Yaqui Indians raised by General Obregon.
Puttees covered with a thin layer of vinyl spackling compound to create riding boots, and an officer with an, admittedly rare, Mauser automatic pistol.
(http://thebengalclubla.com/images/fed30.jpg)
Puttees coverd with a thin layer of automobile glazing compound to form long trousers. In some cases the Chinese 'slippers' had to be covered in compound as well, and then sanded to look like infantry boots.
(http://thebengalclubla.com/images/fed31.jpg)
(http://thebengalclubla.com/images/fed32.jpg)
(http://thebengalclubla.com/images/fed33.jpg)
Oh, and here's an Old Glory Boer skirmishing with his fedora replaced with a sombrero. The coat, bandolier, and Mauser rifle all fit for a Villista.
(http://thebengalclubla.com/images/mex13.jpg)
And here's an Old Glory W.W.I French artileryman (in helmet) converted into a Federale artileryman. Puttees padded and then sanded into trousers, helmet filed into something that looked rather like a kepi, and then putty put on the top to make the BEF style cap.
(http://thebengalclubla.com/images/mex30.jpg)
Oh, and one of the new Perry Plastic ACW infantrymen, conferted into a dismouted Rurale (sort of the Mexican version of the RCMP) with a flag, and a movie camera.
(http://thebengalclubla.com/images/rurale07.jpg)
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Strange that such lengths have to be gone to for the procurement of figures. Lots of gamers seem dead mad keen on this setting, and yet nobody is doing figures? I suppose this kind of thing is dependent on a famous sculptor taking an interest. If one did it would catch light like Darkest Africa and Back of Beyond did I reckon.
Those OG French artillerists are quite useful. I myself have used them as Force Publique trench mortar crews:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=1883.0
I must admit that my knowledge of this era is limited to viewings of "They Came to Cordura" and "The Wild Bunch." The Old West has never really appealed to me as a gaming genre, but this is something different, and not Old West at all really. I was trying to explain the setting when watching the above-mentioned Gary Cooper picture with my nephew. He wanted to know if it was a cowboy film, and I struggled to come up with an adequate description. A cowboy setting with biplanes and machine-guns? Hmm. A "Southwestern?" "Not-quite-so-Old West?" Eventually we settled on "World War One Cowboy Film."
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Chaps,
Outpost Wargames Services do a range of Mexican Revolution figures covering all the combatants and equipment used.
You can find them here - http://www.outpostwargameservices.co.uk
While not as tall as Copplestone, nor as cleanly sculpted, Outpost's stuff paints up well and they're a great bunch of people, worth checking out.
:)
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very nice stuff.I check out the out post stuff they had alot but no pics. :'(
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Great conversions you have there.
Like the paint!
Thanks for the pics.
Winner!
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Hmm,
Just maybe I've sparked interest?
With regard to figures, the problem is, at least with me, that I develop a real preference for a particular sulptor, who then doesn't make figures for the period that I want. Or, they start making figures long after I've begun the army
Old Glory now makes a full line of PIM (Pershing in Mexico) It has 'Huerta Federales' (Federal troops under the presidency of General Huerta), mounted Villistas, dismounted Villistas (the mounted figures are better than the dismounted ones), various Mexican peasants, 'camp followers' (which are really solderas - women soldiers - that you should mix in with your rebel units) and even General Black Jack Pershing's American Intervention Force.
Here's a photo of a dismounted US cavalryman
(http://thebengalclubla.com/images/aef02.jpg)
And here's a link to our local club's 'Federale Page.'
http://thebengalclubla.com/tbc_federales.asp (http://thebengalclubla.com/tbc_federales.asp)
And a link to our local club's 'Rurale Page' (They were the Mexican equivalent of the RCMP)
http://thebengalclubla.com/tbc_rurales.asp (http://thebengalclubla.com/tbc_rurales.asp)
Oh, and if you're interested in El Gran Revolucion then you've got to read up on Emilio Kosterlitzsky
http://thebengalclubla.com/tbc_kosterlitzky.asp (http://thebengalclubla.com/tbc_kosterlitzky.asp)
With regard to finding just the right sort of description for El Gran Revolucion, one has to include the descriptive term 'Wild West' in there somewhere. Some time in 1914 Pancho Villa, who by this point was an established general in the Constitutionalist forces beating back President/General Huerta, was having a snack in an ice cream parlor. He looked out the window and recognized a secret police informer who had been responsible for his arrest earlier in the revolution. Villa handed his banna split to and aide, walked outside, and insulted the secret policemen in the middle of the street. There was thus nothing that could be done, except settle the matter of honor with a traditional shoot-out using six-guns. Villa then returned to the ice cream parlour and complained that his day had been ruined, because his ice cream had melted.
There were dozens, hundreds, of exotic characters suitable for role playing with 'little lead dollies.' (A term used by a friend's wife to describe our miniatures.) Some served before hand in the Spanish American War, some served later in W.W.I. One commanded a unit of Anarcho-Syndicalists in capturing the city of Tijuana, just across the US border, but was ejected by a Federale relief army, fled to San Diego, then to Hollywood where he starred, briefly, in Silent Movie Serials. I think he then went on to win the DSO in the Welsh Guards on the Western Front. Oh and don't forget the young George Patton, who at one point pursued rebel cavalry whilst riding in a Model-T ford, with everyone shooting at each other with six-guns.
There is a great board game for the period named "Lords of the Sierra Madre." It's sort of like a Monopoly game in which each player is an oligarch trying to seize control of the Mexican economy. But you also get to bribe military units, make war on each other, and try to influence elections on both sides of the border. William Randolph Hearst is one of the several American oligarchs.
And, finally, if any of this has piqued your interest then I strongly, indeed effusively, suggest reading Frank McLynn's book "Villa and Zapata" in which he describes General, later President, Huerta as "A Villain of Elizabethan Proportions."
More than enough for now?
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Very nice stuff, Dow!
I'm impressed!!!
Rudi
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OK, I think I'm going to have to do some pulp scenarios set in this area & period - all sorts of fun goings-on!
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very nice stuff.I check out the out post stuff they had alot but no pics. :'(
Portal - check again - they have a gallery for every range and demo game shots too.
Here's a link to a shot of their Rurales
http://www.outpostwargameservices.co.uk/images/Web%20Photos/MexRev/rur1.jpg
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Not sure if this is of any help to you, being Spanish Civil War and all, but you might find some of these easy to convert to suit you plus they already have a hispanic look about them for Mexico. A lot of the kit used in the war was quite old and recycled from past conflicts so you may find something. The guy that runs it is very helpful also and the sculpts are beautiful.
http://www.anglianminiatures.co.uk/10.html
(http://anglianminiatures.co.uk/album/8/96364459.JPG)
(http://anglianminiatures.co.uk/album/8/72554804.JPG)
(http://anglianminiatures.co.uk/album/8/70227218.JPG)
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Hi good miniatures!
But only one correction.
"El Gran Revolución" is Incorrect, the right form is "La Gran Revolución", because "Revolución/Revolution" is a femme noum.
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Great stuff. I agree about it being a wonderful period to game. Just think Wild Bunch - Enough said. :) Now who can we coerce into sculpting Pike and co. ;D
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May as well get your mystery sculptor to do Coop, Rita and the gang too, while he's about it.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/coop.jpg)
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May as well get your mystery sculptor to do Coop, Rita and the gang too, while he's about it.
Ahh yes, I had forgotten about "They came to Cordura". the cavalry charge at the beginning was excellent :)
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Yeah, sorta peters out a bit after that, though. The film crew should have stayed at the front instead of following Coop on his somewhat tedious journey. :)
Though they do feature one of those pump-action railway carts for quite a while, and those things always make me laugh, even when they're not in Mack Sennett films.
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Yeah, sorta peters out a bit after that, though. The film crew should have stayed at the front instead of following Coop on his somewhat tedious journey. :)
I totally agree with you there. I knew nothing about the film when I saw it ( not so long ago on Beeb 2 I think) and it starts off promising plenty of action.
Though they do feature one of those pump-action railway carts for quite a while, and those things always make me laugh, even when they're not in Mack Sennett films.
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You know, those anglian miniatures might just work.
The key items of wardrobe are;
'Long' Pants/Trousers, no puttees,
Mauser 98 bolt action rifles,
and bandoliers for ammunition.
Consequently, Boer figures are pretty useful for conversions. Except for the beards.
And remember, General Obregon also raised 'Red Battalions' of urban workers from Mexico City, and 'Indian Battalions' of Yaquis from the state of Sonora.
The post about 'La Gran Revolucion' brings up a very interesting point. I speak (insert raucous laughter here) only high school French, and no Spanish at all. Now I remember my first, not very good, history book on the Mexican Revolution having the title "El Gran Revolution." But it's been a long time, and many mixed drinks, since then. So I could be wrong. However, whilst rifling through my books, in an as yet unsuccessful attempt to find corroborating evidence, I remembered something that an ex-girlfriend (one of a seemingly endless progression) once told me about the Spanish language. Admittedly, this may only apply to Spanish as spoken in Argentina. She explained that "The Rat" was feminine (La Rata), but if the rat grew big enough, it became masculine (El Raton). I wonder if that applies to the Mexican Revolution? Or if my memory is merely clouded by too many LZ-129 Frosted Cocktails?
Regards,
PS - And for role playing, don't forget the German/French/British spies. And 'The Sonora,' the Curtis biplane shipped, by truck no less, across the border from Los Angeles, and used to attack the Federal fleet based out of Guaymas on Mexico's West Coast.
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Well...
Revolution/Revolucion, is a femenine term, is the same if it is big or small.
At least for the Spanish speakers....
And another comment, the rat is "La rata" (fem), and "the mouse", is "el ratón" (masc), but you can say "la ratona", to speak about the femenine mouse, but is inusual. They have nothing in common with the size of the rodent.
Great miniatures!
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have to go with slorm on this one, i rang my mother who is spanish and she said it's definately la gran not el gran........regardless of the correct one, it's an excellent period to wargame and if i had more money i'd be tempted myself.
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But you could say "El Gran Revolucionario" if you were talking about Villa or Zapata (or Castro or Che).
Maybe that was the title of the book, and the last four letters slipped outside of Major Weenie's memory...
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That's some brilliant stuff you have.
I've been to Mexico some years back and the country left a great impression on me.
Also a lot of great art was made during and after the Revolution.
Indeed if someone made good ready to go figures that I liked I'd be sold....
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Just in case anyone is looking for some inspirational material on the subject, to get into the gaming mood. Here are some links to the local club's web site that might prove usesful.
The latest issue of the campaign newspaper, 'The Bisbee Review.'
http://thebengalclubla.com/bisrev.asp (http://thebengalclubla.com/bisrev.asp)
The campaign home page, with some, only partially successful, explanations as to what we were trying to do.
http://thebengalclubla.com/tbc_wwcampaign.asp (http://thebengalclubla.com/tbc_wwcampaign.asp)
And the online map. Move the mouse/cursor around on the map. Items of interest may provide a pop up message, or click to move to a close up map. On the close up map there are more pop up messages for more items of interest.
http://thebengalclubla.com/tbc_wwmap.asp (http://thebengalclubla.com/tbc_wwmap.asp)
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Some stock figures,
All Old Glory, I believe.
Federales, in the 'General Huerta Uniform' so popular for villainous extras in movies.
Stock Old Glory figures from the PIM line.
(http://thebengalclubla.com/images/fed01.jpg)
(http://thebengalclubla.com/images/fed03.jpg)
(http://thebengalclubla.com/images/fed12.jpg)
Constitutionalists, General Obregon and President Carranza.
Old Glory figures, from the Spanish American War line.
(http://thebengalclubla.com/images/const01.jpg)
(http://thebengalclubla.com/images/const02.jpg)
Villistas.
Old Glory from their Villistas, and Wild West Camp Followers.
(http://thebengalclubla.com/images/mex14.jpg)
(http://thebengalclubla.com/images/mex20.jpg)
(http://thebengalclubla.com/images/mex18.jpg)
(http://thebengalclubla.com/images/mex22.jpg)
Mounted Villistas.
Old Glory, stock Villistas from PIM.
(http://thebengalclubla.com/images/mexcav06.jpg)
(http://thebengalclubla.com/images/mexcav07.jpg)
Only real problem with the Old Glory line is that the machine guns are all maxims, instead of Hotchkiss.
Regards,
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I watched "A Fist Full of Dynamite" last night which made this period seem very appealing gaming-wise. I'd recommend watching it as inspiration for this type of gaming.
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I thought that I was about to pull a rabbit out of my hat on this one, but I was wrong.
About a year ago the TBC gaming club was contacted by a chap in Mexico City, whose great grandfather was 'General Navarette' in the Mexican Revolution. It seems that he had stumbled across the club's online newspaper, 'The Bisbee Review,' and found a mention of the good general. Well he sent us lots of very interesting photos, and even a CD of military music as currently played by the Mexican Federal Army. It's surprising how popular John Philip Sousa marches seem to be with the Mexican military. And how similar the style in which they are played to American Sousa. I say this because the traditional Mexican marches and fanfares have a very different sound.
Anyway, yesterday I rememberd my contact and sent off an email inquiring about 'El Gran Revolucion.' Distressingly, it appears that, even in the Mexico of my dreams, 'La Gran Revolucion' is correct, and my amigo was just too polite to correct me in my many emails. However, he did say something very interesting on the subject of rats.
"Talking about mouse and rats, it´s true, both are different animals (Rata y Ratón are different species), but also in mexico and of course talking in spanish, many people belives that rata is the female and mate of the ratón."
Oh, and here's a photo of General Navarette.
(http://thebengalclubla.com/images/Navarrete03.jpg)
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What a splendid moustache :o :)
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It was a war of facial hair, much like the American Civil War.
Just look at Zapata, Villa and Carranza.
Huerta would have stayed in power much longer if he had sported even a half-decent 'tache. I'll bet most of the Zapatista women had better moustaches than him.
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Gents,
1.) The HBO show about the movie that DW Griffith made of Pancho Villa wasn't all that bad. Especially since Antonio Banderas is far more handsome than General Villa. Although, I think that, once again, all the machine guns were maxims. And if I remember correctly they did try to make something that looked somewhat like a French 75 field gun.
2.) With regard to mustaches, I think that Huerta depended more heavily on his frightening eyes. I have a photo somewhere of Huerta with a woman and children. One hopes that it is his family, but the look of abject terror on the kids' faces reminds one of that photo op held by Sadam Huessein with the children of the English hostages. Oh, and a friend had an uncle who actually rode with Villa. The lad had come over from Greece, was quite naturally nicknamed 'El Greco,' and was famous for his magnificent mustache.
3.) And not another photo. It's a Copplestone Chinese swordsman converted to a Federale standard bearer.
(http://thebengalclubla.com/images/fed34.jpg)
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Don't know if I already posted these two figures, but they're stock old Glory. The one on the left is a Boer with his standard fedora hat, painted in what one hopes is a slightly more Southwestern color scheme. He already has a Mauser 98 and ammunition bandolier, so no real conversion was necessary. The one on the right is the same figure, but with a drop mould sombrero glued to the top of the head.
(http://thebengalclubla.com/images/mex12.jpg) (http://thebengalclubla.com/images/mex13.jpg)
I'll look about for some of my stock Villistas to photograph. Of course my camera battery seems to have given up the ghost. So that may take a while.
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A few fedoras would not be out of place in among your Villistas. It was a popular piece of headwear in that period. Even in Mexico.
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An old project, but I like what I see.