Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Great War => Topic started by: olyreed on 07 July 2014, 06:56:33 PM
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My first two German trench raiders for a 1918 project.
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Very nice paint job :)
Sorry to be a "I think you'll find..." (nasal voice) rivet counter but....the current perceived wisdom is that the Germans didn't paint their helmets with a disruptive pattern apart from possibly a few artillery units.
Bit of a shame though as it looks really cool :(
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Also, the body armor would have been painted field gray - surviving examples certainly are and the few contemporary pictures of them seem to show that also.
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Here's a sample of surviving trench armor. Would have had some wear at edges, maybe some rubs showing a few streaks of metal underneath, but it would have been painted green or field grey.
https://www.google.com/search?q=world+war+1+german+body+armor&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=XZK8U6_PBYnf8gGavYCAAw&ved=0CBwQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=979#facrc=_&imgdii=2ZomvQ2m9qgFKM%3A%3B64Zl8Tsa27Jv3M%3B2ZomvQ2m9qgFKM%3A&imgrc=2ZomvQ2m9qgFKM%253A%3BrwXZ8JRk1CY3tM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fupload.wikimedia.org%252Fwikipedia%252Fcommons%252Fe%252Fe0%252FGerman_body_armor_and_shield_from_World_War_I.JPG%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fcommons.wikimedia.org%252Fwiki%252FFile
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I can see what your aiming for,you want your trench raiders to stand out from the rest of your army.
You just need to tone down your metallic colours with a dark earth brown wash 50% brown/50% black mix.
As it stands it would be a life limiting look,as for the helmet stick with the pattern,just for your trench raiders,
As for the armour it wouldn't be worn more than once on a raid,as its very heavy and gets in the way,and is very loud!.Its more likely to be used on guard duty in the trenches.
If you'ld like some help with paint scheme's PM. Mark
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Take a look at how Prof. Witchheimer handled the trench armor and helmet.
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=5206.0
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Looking at the photos again I do think the armour is a bit shiney o_o. will repaint soon, to many other projects to do first though...
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Don't repaint later keep them on your work bench.You tone them down as you come accross similar shades of paint in other projects,Or you'll end up like all pro painters(the good and the bad)with a group of figures you can't for the life of you remember how you painted them,every collection has them hidden in some corner or other.
If I'm honest I don't have any lol(only because I give them away so I don't have a reminder of how much of a twit I am for not writing a colour card for each new scheme)
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Regarding the helmets, although WW1 was extensively photographed, no one has found a picture of German helmets with a disruptive pattern scheme.
Also infantry units wouldn't have had access to the paint required. Only possibly artillery units who had paint for their guns.
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nice
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Then they can't have been looking that hard,page 85 of Images of War The German Army on the Western Front 1917-18.
It shows two men painting helmets on the table there are five or six different pots of paint open each with a brush in it,not something you'ld do if you were painting only one colour,you would have one pot each,
Oh ,and the helmet on the table is very clear and in a camo pattern.Nothing is casting a shadow on it as the sun is directly above and all the shadows are short and very close to the base of each item theres no over lapping of shadows with the items on the table.
It even shows the stages of painting,the men are painting helmets black theres a pile of black helmets under the table,the fastest way to do large numbers of miniatures in camo helmets is to paint them black and apply coloured shapes over the top.This would apply to full size helmets to.its reasonable to asume the camo helmet in the middle of the table is being used as a template/example.
You can't honestly belive that in four years of war and all the shortages that went with it,that no QMS ever got hold paint that was ment to be used by some one else.
(if an't nailed down )
Mark
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Sounds interesting. Any chance you could post the picture?
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I don't have a scanner,so a picture of my phone camera is the best I can manage.I'm not sure if you'll be able to see (as l can't check the image until after its posted)but there is a dark line around each colour,its not shadowing on the helmet.
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That the Germans didn´t paint camuflage on their helmets is one of those internet myths that just will not go away :)
They did. General Ludendorff even gave orders in July 1918 specifying how to apply the paint.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stahlhelm
Nice models by the way.
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Cheers for the picture. Happy to be persuaded. It would great if anyone has a picture of these helmet being worn?
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I'll have a look,The trouble is the stage of the war there on heads is when things are moving fast and no ones got time to pose,followed by things going down hill when no ones in the mood to pose.
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I haven't seen any contemporaneous photos of German infantry actually wearing camoflauged helmets (not per se evidence that there were none, but I have seen hundreds of WW I photos, and can't remember seeing any such). That said, I think it likely that at least members of regulation Stosstrupp battalions did. They were often used to test out new equipment; they didn't serve regularly in the trenches (being held back as an Army asset, utilized as training detachments, for raids, and for assaults) and so would have had greater access to such rear area supplies as paint; and Luddendorf took a special interest in them. It is more likely that Luddendorf's instruction to paint helmets was a regularization of a successful practice that at least some troops had developed and used than that it was an untried idea that the General Staff had come up with. But how many regular infantry units found access to the necessary paint in the four months between the order and the Armistice is another matter.
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I think such images are more likely to be taken by personal camera's rather than official ones as camo heads on mass don't look pritty in a photo (not neat and Soldier like! they don't shine theres no spit and polish involved.You can't be brave soldiers hiding in camo.) the early twentith centurary mind is a completely different animal.
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Here's a photo, from Bundesarchiv:
(http://www.bild.bundesarchiv.de/dev01/barchpic/2012/08-13/70/14/cd/athene-65rx3pocpu019dz3eeov_layout.jpg)
And another, from the Imperial War Museum:
Link (http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205191820)
I have scanned through perhaps thousands of WWI photos. I can probably count the number of camouflaged helmets I've seen in the dozens at most. This leads me to conclude that they were extremely rare, but they did exist. The photos also lead me conclude that the camouflage was applied individually – that is, I've never seen a unit wherein ALL of the soldiers in the photo conclusively have it.
I tend to doubt that they were more common for Stosstruppen; I suspect that this is a bit of "received information." If anything, they appear to be more present in artillery units, as shown in the photos above. Those two photos may well be of the same group of men, but in one photo they are wearing packs, in the other they aren't, so I am not certain one way or the other.
Edit: Here's another:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-eSZ4p5OzJXg/S8DoxBWaC5I/AAAAAAAAAeI/BcbX2iVtzao/s720/Sturmbataillon16MW.Zugdetainl.jpg)
Again, almost certainly from a training exercise, but it shows the camouflage helmets clearly. And:
(http://i.imgur.com/00ARi9h.jpg)
The photo is credited as "Second Battle of the Aisne, France, 1917," but I don't have proof of that. They're pretty clearly using an unofficial painted camouflage here.
And - not used for portrait photos because the camouflage isn't appropriately spit-and-polish?
(http://www.alexanderandsonsrestorations.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/camo-helmet-and-bomb.jpg)
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A little miss quote there.never mentioned. portrait' s ,only private camera's,just because an image is in a state collection,or printed in book does not mean its a state sanctioned photo or official,Even if taken by a regimental photographer.Thousands of camera's were taken to war by men on all sides.The point of this whole topic is simple and clear .Can I paint helmets camo,and were they worn?
The answer is yes you can and your already have.Yes they were worn,No one can tell you other wise(unless they have an image of ever helmet worn by every man, on all fronts for every day of the war!)No one has come up with an image of one in use at the front(inclueding me,and nodoubt someone will at some point)
They are a nice start to your trench raider's l really do hope this doesn't put you off posting more images as your project grows.I'll go back to first comment There your toy's you enjoy them your way! Mark
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No one has come up with an image of one in use at the front(inclueding me,and nodoubt someone will at some point)
I don't think this proves anything. As has been established, there's no doubt that they existed.
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Good looking start for your trench raiders, hope to see more of them soon! 8)
Since there's a bit of discussion regarding the German helmets here, just a quick question regarding WW1 German minis, has any manufacturer done minis wearing the Stirnpanzer?
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I get the feeling you'd argue in an empty room.So if you still feel the need miss quote to raise a point that no ones disputing then feel free.As its Olyreeds figures that should be the focus so I' m walking away from this.
Oly if you'd like any advice on painting then feel free to PM me.If you do post more picture's Then I'd start a new topic as this clearly isn't what you intended when you first posted your figures.
Pocoloco,don't waste your money,its very easy to change a helmet to the frontal armour
just place a small ball of green stuff(or what ever you use)in the centre over the peak of the helmet and with a wet finger smooth it to cover the front of the helmet,it will follow the shape of the helmet.when dry take a new blade and rock it over the top of the helmet from ear to ear.any over hang is trimed back to the edge of the helmet underneath.
if you don't have time to try it .Then take a look at Great War miniatures. I'm pritty sure they've covered this.
all the best Mark
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I think the men in photo 1 are artillerymen (who, serving in rear areas would have had access to paint - some militaria collectors have surmised that most authentic camo'ed helmets belonged to artillery) as might also be true of the fellow in photo 4. Photo 3 is very interesting, as it looks like it is of troops actually in the field (vice the squad in photo 2 who, as you noted appear to be in training. Alternatively, photo 2 could be of a demonstration squad, in which case they would have the "very latest" for display).