Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: lou passejaire on 21 August 2014, 10:33:34 AM
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i have heard that , in Narvik, no french vehicles were landed , not a single small car, only the H39 Tanks of the 342th CACC .
then i found those pics ...
(http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/11/63/95/43/namsos12.jpg)
(http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/11/63/95/43/namsos10.png)
of 1 Peugeot DKJ5, unidentified unit , taken after operation alphabet
and this pic
(http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/11/63/95/43/namsos11.jpg)
Renault UE , unidentified unit, in the ruined streets of Narvik
and this pic of what seem's to be a british AA gun and tractor around Namsos ...
(http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/11/63/95/43/namsos10.jpg)
let's go for some vehicles ;D
a Renault UE will soon be produced by Mad Bob Miniatures (http://madbobminiatures.blogspot.fr/) , and i dream of a Peugeot DKJ5 .
(http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/11/63/95/43/dkj510.jpg)
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Fascinating. This is why I always shake my head at the "rivet counters".
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Great pictures!
The Renault UR is such a funny little vehicle, I'll definetly get one!
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funny and quite usefull :
front line supply carrier
artillery tractor for 25mm gun
carrier for the MG and mortars
and even
(http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/france/Selbstfahrlafette_PaK36_HD.jpg)
(http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/11/63/95/43/renaul11.png) in Indochina
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The bottom one in the first set is indeed a British gun, 40mm Bofors, along with it's Morris tractor. It looks like the driver put the wheels in the ditch and the gun rolled.
The UE carriers with the MG cupola are two of those intended for export to China and also used by the French in Indochina. http://indochine54.free.fr/cefeo/afvs.html#top
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the truck on the right of the upper picture seem's to be a British truck too .
so the Bofors around Narvik is one of the 3e Light AA Bty ?
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Yes, a Bedford MWD by the look of it, an early model with the aeroscreens rather than a proper windscreen.
Not sure as to the unit for the Bofors offhand.
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it was the only AA unit in narvik ...
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The vehicle in the background of this pic is a french tractor Somua MCG5.
(http://i41.servimg.com/u/f41/11/61/41/83/narvik11.jpg)
http://atf40.forumculture.net/t1057p15-les-chars-engages-du-cote-francais (http://atf40.forumculture.net/t1057p15-les-chars-engages-du-cote-francais)
From this order of battle, it seems that some vehicles had to be desembarked as support of the 342eme CACC:
http://www.atf40.fr/ATF40/documents/norvege/342%20CACC.pdf (http://www.atf40.fr/ATF40/documents/norvege/342%20CACC.pdf)
And the 2ème groupe autonome d'artillerie coloniale at least would need tractors for its guns.
Emilio.
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yep, seem's that were desembarked in Narvik :
The Renault UE of the FFL
some (5) hotchkiss H39 , at least one TRC Lorraine 37, and a Somua MCG5 of the 342CACC
Unic P107 towing the 75mm guns of the 2 GAAC and the somua MCG5 lost on the beach ( as no vehicles were lost by the 342CACC except the 3 H39 )
some Peugeot DKJ5 , quite sure some Laffly S15R , a lot of motorbikes (FFL recco unit , artillery spotters, mechanics of the 342CACC ), .
The Landing in Narvik was well organized, not the one in Namsos .
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I always wondered whether this vehicles could be used for the french
(http://www.anticsonline.co.uk/l.aspx?k=105137926)
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i'm not sure ... lol
if someone ,some day, produce a fiat 500,or Simca 5 , it's the same car and some were used .
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I understand it is a Kurogane Type 95 "Daruma"
it is not the same but very similar to the fiat topolino or simca
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i'm not sure ... lol
if someone ,some day, produce a fiat 500,or Simca 5 , it's the same car and some were used .
Gasoline already do in 1/48. http://www.modellismo48.it/dettaglioarticolo.aspx?idarticolo=GAS50050&idlingua=1
Tamiya do one in 1/35 & they sometimes downsize the same vehicle into the 1/48 range.
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1/48 car with 1/56 tanks does not work :-[
i have had some problems with the MLC , i scaled them in 1/48 , and they were toooooo bigs for the AGN H39 tanks
i have a Traction in 1/48 , too big for 1/56 laffly w15 and H39 ...
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I understand it is a Kurogane Type 95 "Daruma"
it is not the same but very similar to the fiat topolino or simca
the fiat topolino / simca 5 is a very very small car with small wheels, quite different ;)
(http://www.geocities.ws/fiat_topolino1936/Pictures/armytopo.jpg)
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yes, it is the wheels indeed, but the Kurogane is not large either, it has only 3 seats
anyway, it is the level of accuracy that will always separate our approaches ;)
or would You use captured italian vehicles for the free french in north africa?
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italian vehicles ( and guns ) were used by the free french in north africa , at least from Koufra .
i have, somewhere some pics of Leclerc Supply column with a mix of civilian trucks, chevy , and some italian trucks .
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Interesting to know, THX
so, nothing from Eritrea then?
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mainly guns , seem's that the british send some 47/32 AT guns captured in Eritrea to Leclerc Force L
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I suppose this is a french source that I cannot read? :?
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it's a french paper source ... called "les soutiers de la gloire" in "bataille et blindé n°10" (http://www.batailles-blindes.com/batailles-blindes10.php)
5 may 1942, an order to Capitaine Dubois to go to Wadi Halfa from Faya Largeau to carry 2 british 25 pdrs, 4 italian 47 guns, 50 tonne of ammunitions back to Faya Largeau .
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did they use the sahariana trucks or the AB 40/41? there must have been some loot from the saharan company in Kufra
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no, trucks were Lancia 3RO and Dovunque 35, and some AS37 .
Force L only armoured cars were some Laffly 15 TOE
But they use a lot of chevrolet ligth trucks
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I have AS37 though
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you have to think of Leclerc Force L as some kind of Long Range Desert Group, attacking the axe post in southern desert .
( and even his own air force of 1 squadron of Bristol Blenheim )
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Yes, I know that very well. This will probably be my free french force for North Africa. But I don't have much source material on that after Kufra. I don't even know what they did after the general retreat following el Alamein. It appears to me the brits "pulled the plug" on the free french because they had to deal with the Vichy "Armee d'Afrique" in preparation for Torch
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leclerc column raided and achieved the conquest of Fezzan in 1942 . then joined the British for the Tunisian campaign .
i didn't have more sources ...
this one , but in french : http://www.fondation-leclerc.com/99/leclerc-et-ses-hommes/colonne-leclerc-2eme-db/fezzan-lybie/fezzan-tripolitaine-1942-1943.htm (http://www.fondation-leclerc.com/99/leclerc-et-ses-hommes/colonne-leclerc-2eme-db/fezzan-lybie/fezzan-tripolitaine-1942-1943.htm)
and this one :
http://grat.over-blog.com/article-1er-mars-1941-la-colonne-du-tchad-s-empare-de-koufra-122775825.html (http://grat.over-blog.com/article-1er-mars-1941-la-colonne-du-tchad-s-empare-de-koufra-122775825.html)
there is an english source http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Victory_in_the_Fezzan.html?id=BiPTAAAAMAAJ (http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Victory_in_the_Fezzan.html?id=BiPTAAAAMAAJ) but long out of print
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merci beaucoup
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Haha
Interesting stuff. Reminds me of when I modeled Norway's National Tank: http://the-bloggity-blog-blog.blogspot.co.uk/2011/06/national-tank-of-norway-landsverk-l-120.html?m=1
MM.
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Mr.Marx , nice little unusefull "National Tank" ;)
back to Narvik :
armored unit fuel and ammunition supply carrier
TRC Lorraine 37L and trailer 342th CACC :
(http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/11/63/95/43/dscn1518.jpg)
(http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/11/63/95/43/dscn1519.jpg)
Mad Bob miniatures lorraine 38 L ( Armored infantry carrier )
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b341/madgrotbob/Bolt%20Action/French/P5250145_zps6cb720df.jpg)
, with a little conversion ... a bic small lighter for the fuel tank, somr bitz added ( load, vehicle tools )
missing plate numbers ( i'll try making my own decals as i have a lot of vehicles who will need them ) .
Waiting for the Renault UE ( tow for the FFL 25mm guns ) and Citroen Kegresse P17 ( tow for the 75mm guns )
and i'm working on a laffly S15 R , radio truck .
VEHICLES WERE DISEMBARKED IN NARVIK !
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Yay! it appears You only waited for the release of the 13e DBLE to start the project ;)
yes, the L120 appears to have been a swedish prototype rejected by the swedish army and sold by Landsverk instead to the Norwegian army. Pretty interesting for "what if" scenarios.
I was wondering how the Norwegians managed to mount theit stout and determined defence and counterattack. It would appear as the alleis only withdrew because of the german invasion of france
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F***ing sources >:(
half the sources ( in french or in english , i don't understand a single word of norwegian or german language ) give 1st Company 1st Battalion, 1st Fallschirmjäger Regiment parachute dropped at Narvik on the 14th of may ...
the other give one company, 139 th Gebirgsjäger régiment dropped at Narvik after a short training ...
anyone can give me informations ?
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is it a book or a digital source You cannot read?
I knew of only one combat drop, not ar Narvik (but then, what do I know?)
maybe I can read it for You?
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i can't search in german or norwegian lenguage ;), so i don't found any digital source ( and paper one ;) )
I have asked to some french WW2 military specialists and it seem's possible that both Gebirgsjagers and Fallshrimjagers were parachute dropped on Narvik .
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I thought the Gebis were flown in by Ju52 & Condors?
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2 companies from Gebirgsjäger-Regiment 137 parachuted into Narvik. They were uniformed (field blouse, trousers, mountain boots, etc) as GJR soldiers, but equipped (jump smocks, jump helmets, ets) as Fallschirmjäger.
David
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arghhhh 2 ospreys says that they are from 139 th Gebirgsjäger
french ministery of war ECPAD speak of gebirgsjägers dropped .
reinforcement came by Ju52 and Dornier, 75mm guns, pack 37, ammunitions ...
on the french side, it's quite net, we have the Order of Battle , and even the vehicles ...
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Every reference I have found says GJR 137. Here are some great pics of the GJ jumpers (I was wrong in my earlier post about uniforms, note the Jäger with the FJ trousers!).
(http://www.ecpad.fr/wp-content/gallery/norvege/12_DAM-70-L34.jpg)
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(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3496/4072442781_4a8cfac388_b.jpg)
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2642/4072127153_0f7c6a3338.jpg)
had friend who was ex of HMS Aurora and piloted a lighter taking FFL (well mostly spanish from what he said) troops ashore at Rombaksfjord,
inspired a skirmish 28mm plan for a while
but there wasnt much around at the time- seems to be much more available these days
some very good french sources re: materiel -must dig them out again
(apologies for random hijack waffle)
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yes, this is the big problem I have with figuring out the Infantry force "Legion Etrangere" together with armoured vehicles.
I can follow the modern light infantry concept as mountain troops, and also the later paratroop role.
But the combination with tanks....
unless it is the REC or the GRDI 97
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don't forget that the french "doctrine" for the use of tanks was "infantry mobile bunker" :o.
and yes ther were a lot of spanish republicans in the 13th DBLE
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the french problem was that there was not tank doctrine, there was an "armoured enhancement" for all arms doctrine. Every WW2 participant rthat did not install a totally new tank arm screwed up big time.
The only ones who could pull this off "old-style" were the brits, because of their brigading concept and combined arms doctrine before. And even they needed a few years adaptation
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Interesting pics here:
http://www.ecpad.fr/le-corps-expeditionnaire-francais-a-namsos-en-avril-1940/
(http://www.ecpad.fr/wp-content/gallery/le-corps-expeditionnaire-francais-a-namsos-en-avril-1940/D25-01-74.jpg?56e88c)
Emilio
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Interesting pics here:
http://www.ecpad.fr/le-corps-expeditionnaire-francais-a-namsos-en-avril-1940/
(http://www.ecpad.fr/wp-content/gallery/le-corps-expeditionnaire-francais-a-namsos-en-avril-1940/D25-01-74.jpg?56e88c)
Emilio
bad translation, emilio, this picture is taken in France, in Brest, before loading ...
the cars and most of the equipment of the French troops never disembarked in Namsos ...
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:'( Sorry...