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Other Stuff => General Wargames and Hobby Discussion => Topic started by: Gunbird on August 29, 2014, 09:04:55 PM
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I've received some comments and PM's about my refocussing (see http://20mmandthensome.blogspot.nl/2014/08/focus-points.html (http://20mmandthensome.blogspot.nl/2014/08/focus-points.html), in that 12 projects is too much.
Is it? How many do you have in a year?
Since I like to make a basic force that you can do a skirmish with, these tend to be rather small, 2 dozen troops, 3-4 vehicles, these kind of projects are quite manageable. For others I just paint maybe a few miniatures a year cause I enjoy painting them, and not neccesarely gaming with them. Other projects are armies that I'm slowly expanding. I tend to hope from one project to another one anyway, I just want to do that in a more focussed manner from now on.
Is it somehow not ok to paint models just cause you like to make and paint them? Is gaming with them such a must?
I don't think 12 is too much. Now the 35 I had before I culled them, now that was too much. :cool:
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Lost track of mine, but easily around 20 plus. :-[
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Pfft, variety is the spice of life! 8)
Seriously though, even if they intersect, having lots of projects helps you to avoid your hobby getting stale by letting you jump project when you get fatigued with the one you're on. Project burnout is not fatal as you can come back to it in the future, but proper hobby burnout is very hard to get back from! :?
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Hmm interesting , each persons different, what overwhelms one person , another relishes the challenge.
I buy miniatures I like , so long I have the storage its fine.
ive shelved my idea of a sharpe in space/napoleonic sciencefiction and will be just doing necromunda, due to time constraints. But the joy of this hobby is I can go back to it when I want.
it doesnt involve lots of bulky equipment lying around or continous outlay , I spend money on it,when I have it to spend.
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I've received some comments and PM's about my refocussing (see http://20mmandthensome.blogspot.nl/2014/08/focus-points.html (http://20mmandthensome.blogspot.nl/2014/08/focus-points.html), in that 12 projects is too much.
Is it? How many do you have in a year?
This is entirely dependant on your timeframe lol
I think I have about 6 or 7 running now. But there's no hurry.
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On my table right now I have 9 small projects on the go.
When one finishes another one or two comes along. And I havent gamed for three years, just enjoy the making, painting and writing background for them.....
Dont let people tell you how its done, its your hobby, your way :D
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I'll be honest with you, I go for 3 at a time:
1 near completion
1 started, but am a couple years away from getting anything finished
1 the covet stage, looking, thinking, planning.
I have a few finished projects(not working on them or investing in them)
Star wars
Strange Aeons
10mm Lotr
So I guess maybe its closer to 6
Keep it light, it is supposed to be fun. The problem is there are always more models to buy, and inspirational blogs to follow.
Oldben
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<snip>
Is it somehow not ok to paint models just cause you like to make and paint them? Is gaming with them such a must?
<snip>
Paint them or not; play them or not; one size/scale or many - Nobody's business but your own.
Gracias,
Glenn
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I have plenty of models I painted just for the fun of it. Will they ever get into a game? Maybe not, but there is something to be said for just indulging in the process of dreaming up another project or buying some new toys just because they strike your fancy. :D
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One on the go (Pulp Alley) and one on sabbatical (Mage Knight).
I dont dare try more. I simply haven't got the space, the time, or the money.
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Like you, I used to have a lot more projects on the go, but have realised that, for me at least, it was actually counter productive, as I began to feel overwhelmed, and nothing was ever getting finished.
Now that I have narrowed my focus to only a couple of projects (DMH & Napoleonics) I have found a new energy. Having just returned to full time work as well, a more manageable number of projects is essential to keep me on target.
But honestly, whatever keeps you going. And yes, I'll often paint something new, just for the fun of it. If it isn't fun, why bother? ;)
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In theory the optimal number of 'things' an average person can remain focused on and to devote equal attention to is three; hence why most militaries use the rule of three in their structure (three squads, three platoons and so on).
This is your hobby though and while becoming more focused is helpful, unless it is how you like to do things, or at least how you want to do things, then it can impose a false barrier to your enjoyment of it.
We all have different limits imposed on our hobby, be it space, time, money, a partner's sufferance, or whatever, so do you really need to add an artificial one on top of that?
I had a similar desire to be more organised a while back and I simply wrote a list of ten periods/sub-periods (twelve could work too), in order of preference. The first three or four were pretty easy, but it got harder to prioritise and even define everything else after that. Simply put, the first three or four were obviously my main interests.
I imagine that other people might only have one or two, or up to five, using the same method, everyone is different. It also does not mean you have to try to ignore the others that made the rest of the list and on occasion something might cause you to have burst of interest in them for a time over everything else, before they slip back into relative obscurity. By and large though what you will end up working on are 'your interests' on any given day.
As for things that don't make the list, but yet grab your interest, buy them, paint them and enjoy the process, for as long as that lasts, then do what you've done already and sell them. It depends on what the enjoyment is; is it buying it, painting it, seeing it sat there for eternity doing nothing?
I used to have a massive collection of DVDs, yet most of them rarely got watched again after the first showing, although I intended watching all of them again at some vague future point. I sold almost all of them and as yet I haven't wanted to watch any of the ones I sold. I don't get to show off my huge DVD collection, but then who is impressed by that anyway?
:)
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Three ;)
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<snip>
We all have different limits imposed on our hobby, be it space, time, money, a partner's sufferance, or whatever, so do you really need to add an artificial one on top of that?
<snip>
:)
I don't think a desire to focus is artificial as such. For some people, it is a drive to not have their time and efforts diffused to Chaos and non-completion. We like to see physical symbols of our success (some more, some less so) and it can be armies/Companies/War bands for some and single figures/dioramas for others.
If it is a desire to prioritize then I guess that depends on if you see that as artificial (I don't) or personality trait driven.
An awareness of my own mortality is a factor for me - 15 years in nursing layered on/into 35 years Federal service (Military, DOD Civilian, IC Civilian,) service seeing how fragile life can be - makes me want to not spend any more time on "shiny but not ever going to be played on the table" projects.
Gracias,
Glenn
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Three ;)
Three shall be the number of the counting and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither shalt thou count two, excepting that thou then proceedeth to three. Five is right out.
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Three seems like a good number. I am currently on two, but I guess you can split them into sub-projects. I am doing WW2 in 28mm and 15mm, and fantasy - which is a whole can of worms.
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Goodness, I've given up counting, but enjoy being able to keeps things fresh and enjoyable :-)
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I shall clarify that my projects are individual miniatures not full armies, the most in any project for me is 11 miniatures. So my 9 is actually no too heavy a work load and I constantly between so that while one layer on one is drying I can work on another :)
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The pressure of running a game for a big show such as Salute concentrates the mind wonderfully - have used it build a project from start to finish in a year for the last last few years.
That said I still have plenty more that I like to savour.
:)
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Anything less than 42 projects at various stages of completion greatly offends the universe, or so I've been told.
On a more serious note, I've stopped doing actual "projects" anymore, mainly because the ones at work take up taking so much of my time and energy. Now that I've settled in a bit, I hope to get back into finishing off some, being most interested in my Retro Fantasy thing and the African ImagiNations stuff, and I still want to build a proper sculpted gameboard and a lightbox for taking pics, but that is pretty much all.
On the other hand, I have stuff coming out of boxes that hasn't seen the light of day since the mid/late 2000s, and I've found that I own several shelves worth of unbuilt kits plus boxes of figures, so I dare say there miiight be a very minor problem that I have.
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I'm a humming bird, flitting from one shiny thing to the next. I have yet to finish a 'project' fully, the closest being my Paras platoon, which although being large enough in numbers, is an outrageous hodge-podge of whatever models caught my eye.
After some severe culls my 'projects' (ie. things I have models for, painted or unpainted) currently stand at - WW2 28mm Paras, WW2 28mm Chindits, WW2 20mm 8th Army, ACW, Napoleonic British, Vikings, Crusade Hospitallers, Medieval somethings, GW Vintage Orcs and various miscellaneous bits and pieces.
How many is that? Nine I guess. I don't keep track of how often I'll swap my attention from one to the other during the course of the year.
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I used to have 20 plus but sold a lot off. I now have a lot less but always have odds and sods sitting waiting to be painted so no project is really truly finished for me
thinking now
Maori wars
FIW
Highland Dwarves (all in the lead pile)
Undead celtos
Celtos humans
Renaissance fantasy
Samurai
What I have found is with the variety I can mix and match as it get bored quickly these days so move amongst the projects, a unit here and a unit there ;D
after this odds and sods such as a few cowboys, some conquistadros to add to existing project
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I kid myself that I have three ongoing historical projects- ECW, Medieval and WW2 all in 28mm.
These are all potentially quite large in themselves but my main problem is all the other odds and sods that whisper from their boxes... o_o
Oh and that thing called TIME (or lack of it!)
Don't waste time painting miniatures that you don't really want to paint though, it has to be enjoyable not an obligation.
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I have more than officially crossed over into 'too much now...' territory. Fortunately I have a very indulgent partner who is even willing to gift me the odd Otherworld Red Dragon.
If I counted I'm sure I have no less than 12-15 ongoing projects at one stage or another. And the fact that I keep adding is not really to my favor.
But what can I say, I think this is part of the hobby. I do go from one to another, pushing each along until my enthusiasm for that project starts to dip and I go to the next 'thing'. It;s all so shameless, but I know I'm not alone here :D
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I've sold off 90% or more of my stuff.
I now have:
6mm Arab-Israeli Wars, 1947-present
6mm Cold War Canadians
6mm 1950s Sci-Fi, UFO invasion
28mm Scooby-Doo and the Gang, and a couple of villains
It's a nice, fairly tight collection. I really don't need any more areas to collect. If I had to pare down further, I would only keep the Arab-Israeli stuff.
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By project do you mean new stuff you are trying to get going?
I have loads of stuff that can be played at the drop of a hat but guess you don't call them projects?
WIP projects......too many to list! 8)
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I would like to think that I have two current projects, historical miniatures and fantasy ones ;)
But when you actually break this down into games and armies and scales its all a bit too many. Just looking at what is on the the painting desk, there are 6 different projects. There are probably another 6 sets of minis in the pile of boxes to my side (and thats not counting the rule books in that pile).
I do like to flit between projects, but I do like to get things playable (nearly wrote finished, but that's rarely the case as there is always something extra to add). Having a game coming up (or just having played a game) helps lots.
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Three is the number I have currently in rotation. Samurai, a fist full of Kung fu cops, and infinty. I suppose samurai could be divided into two groups of ronin and kings of war but in truth working on one is working on both. Originally deadzone was going the third on that list but when I received the items I was a little dissapointed by them and I recently traded for some infinity stuff and I have wanted to get into that for a while.
I have other models and games than need stuff painting or working on but I would want to make significant progress on one of the other two before I started working on anymore such as my Deadzone stuff.
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I have recently decided to focus my attention on basically three projects that I will spend money on and they are Mage Knight, Pulp and Wild west. Granted I have many previous projects at various stages of completion. I have a habit of buying a lot then painting enough to play two armies (that way I get to introduce new players to gaming) and leaving the rest to paint when I am moved to do so. So I have several warmaster armies (5 to be exact) left to paint. 2 epic space marine armies to paint. 6 DBA armies to paint. 2.5 Warhammer 40K armies to paint 2 Blood bowl teams to paint, and then odds and ends for my Fantasy collection, flintloque, ACW, ECW, Pirates and SciFi stuff. The key to the later part of this list is I will not be buying anymore of that stuff as I have enough painted and sitting in boxes to last me forever. :D
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By project do you mean new stuff you are trying to get going?
I have loads of stuff that can be played at the drop of a hat but guess you don't call them projects?
WIP projects......too many to list! 8)
I think if it's finished it's no longer a project,
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How does one tally sub-projects that are like projects in their own right?
For example: if I'm building a submarine bay for a mad scientist's lab layout, and I have to (or want to) build a mini-sub to put in it, which would require 1/2 as much work as the room it's to go in. The mini-sub is effectively part of the room, but can be removed from the room to represent someone having escaped in it (or that that avenue of escape is no longer available).
Does the mini-sub count as a separate project, or as sub-project of the sub-bay project?
That is both a pun and a serious question.
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Now i know this is not a popular opinion and i am just talking crazy. And no i dont follow this either.
Wouldn't it be best to pick a project and finish it to completion THEN pick up the next project and rinse and repeat.
Just a thought. :-)
Grimm
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Now i know this is not a popular opinion and i am just talking crazy. And no i dont follow this either.
Wouldn't it be best to pick a project and finish it to completion THEN pick up the next project and rinse and repeat.
Just a thought. :-)
Grimm
That is the correct approach, which I aim for.
Trouble is that I never ever manage this, and I have yet to finish a project as even if I ever manage to complete a force (rare in itself, after 20+ years of modelling, I only have 3 forces I consider playable, or at least used to until the army compositions were changed) I directly extend its boundaries and size.
The real trick is not to overwhelm your painting and modelling space, which I again fail to do.
Ironically, I managed my best effort at completing anything yesterday: I managed to get all my models for one small force (the At-43 Therians, a totl of 18 models) undercoated (!). This will of course last until I convert or buy additions to these.... and they are still to be painted.
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That's how things are going, you see something on the internet or at a convention and say "wow, I want that too!" and there you have a new project.
Or you get something you initially didn't want, e.g. from a larger ebay auction, and think "with a little work this would be great for...". The same happens when you find stuff while cleaning the basement. The curse of a creative mind!
And then there are the projects which are never finished, like the odd warhammer army which just needs one more regiment finished or its general repainted or "oh, this monster would be a perfect mount"...
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Wouldn't it be best to pick a project and finish it to completion THEN pick up the next project and rinse and repeat.
Just a thought.
I think you have woken up too early on a Sunday, you need to make a nice cup of tea, and sit somewhere quiet, and drink it in a reflective mood.
You will then understand that this kind of thinking is the road to madness.
The idea of picking one. One??
And this completion idea - just mad.
;)
Vanvlak - I do at least aim for playable forces - and I find this is best driver for getting stuff on the table (nearly used the completed word !! ) A playable force is great - you can (will) then add more bits to it, and it is often these that slow things down. Yesterday I finished off 6 new stands, and 6 rebased stands for my 10mm Forces of Nature army. This army is already perfectly playable these additions gave me a bit more flexibility in force configurations (and of course allow bigger forces!!).
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Now i know this is not a popular opinion and i am just talking crazy. And no i dont follow this either.
Wouldn't it be best to pick a project and finish it to completion THEN pick up the next project and rinse and repeat.
Just a thought. :-)
Grimm
In an ideal world maybe, but personally I tend to find I lack the focus to concentrate on just one thing for an extended period of time. With a couple of things on the go at the same time you get a break from each one as your attention switches.
That being said, some of my choices as 'the best projects out there' have that singular focus and in terms of figures, models and terrain, usually have far more depth in terms of what is produced for them.
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My problem is a lack of any real definition about what is a finished project, what is in-progress and what is a project that I will always be adding too.
For example, I have two 40k armies that are large and playable. I don't play 40k anymore, but there are other games that they could play in. One could say that they are finished, but I have quite a number of units and vehicles for each army that are in boxes on the porch and have been for some time. The same goes for my Void Junkers army. It's playable in many games, but I've got alot of minis left to paint up for it.
My Squats are a mostly clearer case. I've got enough for ITEN and small games of Warengine, but it's not big enough to play 40k or warpath yet, so I call it unfinished. Then, there's teh case of my half dozen or so warbands for post apoc, sci-fi and fantasy games? They are all complete and playable, but most have got at least a couple of figures in the lead pile that I've picked up to expand them.
Don't even get me started on Terrain, which I always want to build more of and collect more supplies for.
The upshot of all this is that almost all of my factions and forces are grow-able, and have some unpainted units waiting for them in the porch. By that standard I've probably got 20 "projects". However, the only ones I call projects are the ones that are presently completely un-gameable and the only ones I give any attention to are the ones that are presently on my painting table or workbench. By that standard I've got 4 Projects going.
-17 Necromunda Van Saar and one Scum (1/4 done)
-A lot of 35 scatter terrain pieces for sci-fi and post apoc (almost done)
-1 terrain project for my friend (just started)
-1 post-apoc vehicle for the same (not started)
Seems doable, and not at all impossible. Really, it's the only way for me, because if I was always thinking about all the potential projects I've got to do, I'd never start anything.
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I've got... lessee... 1 mad science complex based on a modular boxes-for-rooms system (yes, that includes a sub-bay w/ mini-sub), 1 deceptively complicated Space Pod Crab kit (http://www.hlj.com/product/WAVKM-21/Sci) which I want to modify for 28mm, 2 Lovecraft monster sculpts, 3 Hyborian fantasy god/demon idol sculpts, 2 or 3 assorted new figure teams, and a grab bag of ideas for future projects that may or may not derail the above.
Work on each is going quite slowly, so I actually do think it'd be a good idea to focus down hard on one or another.
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How are you counting projects?
Good Question
1) My 1/600th Korean War to 1973 miniatures are all bought, it is just painting, decals, and terrain that I am working on... just... o_o
2) VSF/IHMN - do I count painting my 25 mm figures and replacing 25 with 15 mm figures as two projects? Let us stick with it as one for now... Finding more replacement 15 mm figures and then selling off all non-Tarzan/Mowgli/Chinese Monks/Tibetan Star God Monks/Indian Army ("Core") themed Companies.
3) My 1/600th WW1 aircraft has been bumped back up on the list and is being re-started/continued...
4) My Galactic Grenadiers (25 and 15 mm) seem static for acquiring more so it is just painting and terrain for this project - do I count painting my 25 mm figures and replacing 25 with 15 mm figures as two projects? Let us stick with it as one for now... Little to no hope for buying more G. G. figures at this time.
5) Same fate for 28+ mm GanTac/FGU/Stan Johansen's Blarads/Rauwoofs/Mekpurrs/Whistlers/Klackon figures for Science Fiction skirmishes...
6) 25 mm Soldados/Indios/Presidials/Zorro/Nueva España on hold currently for oh so many reasons... including finding 15 mm replacements for 25/28 mm figures
7) "25 mm" Fantasy with Old Der Kriegspieler's and 1970s Ral Partha Dwarf/Smiley Faced Goblin figures has plenty to paint but right now I am trying to decide to
A) Dive into painting the masses :o o_o
B) replace them with 15/18 mm figures for war games and FRPGs or 8)
C) and/or do the same with 6 mm armiesfor war games and FRPGs or :-*
D) just store them. :'(
8) 6 mm Battles for Combined Arms Science Fiction... so many figures, so many partially completed Battalions...
Uncounted - all the 15/18 mm and 6 mm/3 mm projects I am playing with figures to see how they look...
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Can't count that high! Too hard to keep track. Every time I think I have finished a project I find more stuff I want to add. I have things on my painting table for at least 20 different projects. I get bored & distracted easily, so always have many thing in the works all the time.
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I can't really keep more than maybe a couple of projects actively going at the same time... but on the other hand if I keep doing the same stuff for too long I burn out and don't want to paint anything...
What's the definition of a project anyway? Perhaps it's because I'm not a tournament gamer, but I find my "projects" rarely have a definite end point. Even after painting a gameable force from scratch, some extras get bought and often forgotten in the shame pile.
I have so much stuff in the backlog (literally thousands of figures) that I've completely given up on any pipe dreams of ever clearing it. Frankly, it doesn't really bother me. It's my treasure trove where I periodically find fun stuff to paint. Again, not being a tournament gamer tied to "official" figures helps a great deal.
This year I have painted (finished)...
15mm Sci-Fi tanks
A fantasy diorama
Fantasy Napoleonics (Flintloque)
Modern cops, robbers and civilians
WWII era vehicles
Modern mercenaries and soldiers
Fantasy orcs
Sci-Fi drone
Tribal African warriors by the boatload
15mm WWII vehicles
Medieval men-at-arms
Boats
19th century explorers
Ghosts and elementals
1/1200 WWII ships
Plus various terrain items in 28mm and 15mm, including a table's worth of ice floats
Everything in 28mm unless otherwise noted.
Most of the stuff came from the backlog.
Most of it has not been gamed with and for much of it I have no clear idea which game to use it with. That does not bother me in the least.
Apart from Flintloque, where I specifically set to paint all the remaining figures, I still have more to paint for each of those categories and many more... (though I am also set to clear the Africans by the end of the year).
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Not to mention I committed [such a too painfully true word] to 4 games in November (IHMN in 25 mm, Air War C21 in 3 mm, Air War 1918 in 3 mm, and A SF version of CRVF in 28 mm) which "ups the ante" a bit.
Gracias,
Glenn
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I am cutting back on the number of projects and getting rid of everything else*. I will be left with -
1/ LOTR figures for fantasy gaming
2/ 28mm WW2
3/ 28mm Anglo/Zulu
I don’t expect the projects above will ever be finished but that’s fine. There will always be something to add to all to them be it new units, character figures, terrain etc.
*slight disclaimer – I have a few small forces that I picked up because my son wanted to play particular games. 15mm WW2 Germans, 15mm SCi-Fi and some Deadzone. However these are all fully painted, each force fits in a single really useful A4 sized box and they get allot more games than anything I would actually call one of my projects and will be staying at least as long as my son wants to play the games.
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Thx for all of the answers guys.
I've made my mind up for the rest of the year and I will stick to these 12 projects and write down what ideas I get in that period for later reference. I just want to organize my hobby a bit more due to the limited time I have, and get more stuff done. Also, I will set my goals to be smaller, so they are easier met. A bonus for me is that a lot of my projects can mix with other ones, so completing a task for one actually finished 2 or more. I will do one side project a month to spice things up, like a bit of scenery or something that can be cast, or whatever tickles my fancy in that month.
The 12 projects do vary in size a lot, 1 is labeled WW2, encompassing Late, Mid and Early for Russian, German and British, but another like my Chernobyl one is only a few dozen figures and scenic items, but that's were the smaller goals kick in.
It does bring out the manager in me, but at least I won't bore myself with graphs and monthly increasing goals on a decreasing budget! ;D
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I have to say I found this thread very interesting as t reveals a little of how we think in this hobby.
For myself projects are:
Build a Greece Amazonian Army for God of Battles ... I have all the figures except for a specific Wonder Woman Heroclix figure (to lead them) and a single Amazonian Hoplite ... yes one short! That gives me a 60point army. 90% painted.
Secret project for my son ... everything purchased and five weeks left to paint and build prior to his 16th birthday
Christmas figures to paint for both my sons
Christmas figures for 2015 to paint for my youngest son (yes I plan ahead)
The gift figures get painted when I stay away on business trips.
Some 2000AD figures to paint
Some Dungeons and Dragons figures to paint
Base camp and baggage train to build for God of Battles
Napoleonic figures to restore (separate thread on LAF about that)
Romans to paint (96)
I try to do projects that can be used together. I tend to think in terms if timeline ... anything in the future fits into Mega City, fantasy can cross into historical or go into Dungeons and Dragons.
I only do 28mm apart from historicals so everything fits together.
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I have just the two hobby projects constantly running never completed.
It makes it easier to deal with just having those two.
1 - paint existing stuff.
2 - buy new stuff to paint when possible reason/excuse is thought of to justify said purchase...
Could then sub-divide that an awful lot :D
But better not to its just a hobby to relax with.
My better half knows my limited skills and time can be re-applied to larger scale practical projects of more use and she does so accordingly. lol
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I would say I have 'Two' projects, but that would be a filthy lie considering the scope of them.
Its split between a currently very active 15mm sci fi project, that really comprises of 3 projects and a withheld 20mm Moderns project (as it needs some serious reorganising and rethinking of how I'll approach it). However I also have a small 15mm Fantasy project ongoing and I plan to do a small Early WW1 project (got a British rifle platoon set up, but haven't done anything else).
When Forged in Battle release their 15mm Ancients, its likely i'll buckle and start another project.
However for the time being I'm almost completely concentrating on the 15mm sci fi. Once I have finished I may move on to completing my reorganized 20mm Modern USMC and Iranians. Or I may start another 15mm sci fi force.
Of course real life is about to get very busy starting a Masters at Uni, so I may be stuck on the 15mm sci fi project for ages lol.
When it comes down to how many projects you have, I suppose its all relative to what you want to achieve (size of the project etc), time and money.
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really interesting ! really !
in my case...at the moment...the number of projects is not a problem...the real question is "Will I be strong enough tonight to paint my minis waiting on my desk...and resist to play Planetside 2 ? " lol lol lol
return to the topic...I always try to not have more projects than i have fingers on my right hand...bizaaaaaaarre !! :o