Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Old West => Topic started by: oabee on 28 September 2014, 08:11:29 PM
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So here’s an idea for a Kickstarter. Read on.
Part of the downside of gaming the Old West—or any North American wargaming--is the paucity of accurate wildlife miniatures. I’ve pontificated here about the vulture, but I’m talking specifically here of North American deer and elk: I have been unable to find 28mm minis that accurately depict the native species, in this case Mule deer, White-tailed deer, and Elk (Wapiti). Various European deer are available (Red, Fallow, and Roe deer are available from Foundry, for example) plus caribou and the like. But there are differences, for those to whom this kind of accuracy matters. :D
It may not be an issue to non-Americans, who aren't aware of these differences, but it is somewhat irritating to us colonials, who see deer in the countryside all the time.
I’m not sure of historic deer ranges, but mule deer are currently found west of the Missouri River and are the typical Rocky Mountain deer. White-tails are found throughout the east and west to the Rockies, but not in the southwest. Elk historically ranged throughout what is now the United States (except Texas and parts of the southwest).
(http://wrgmr.com/images/deer/whitetaileddeer.jpg)
White-tailed deer--red-brown in summer, grey-brown in winter, underside of tail pure white
(http://wrgmr.com/images/deer/muledeer.jpg)
Mule deer--grey-brown, whiter face, white tail/rump with black tip to tail
(http://wrgmr.com/images/deer/elk.jpg)
Elk/wapiti--brown, larger than deer
Note the difference in antlers: from the simpler White-tail, increasing in structure with the Mule deer, and the ornate larger antlers of the Elk.
For comparison, here's the European Red deer:
(http://wrgmr.com/images/deer/reddeer1.jpg)
More similar to the Elk than the American deer.
And I haven't even mentioned that denizen of the American plains, the Pronghorn antelope, which isn't really an antelope but fills a similar ecological niche here in the New World because....
Oh never mind.
Can't find these either.
I haven't searched the forums extensively, but here is a thread about elks:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=53047.0
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http://eurekaminusa.com/collections/dark-ages-saga-animals-28mm
http://www.wargamesfoundry.com/our-ranges/general-purpose-animals-carts-and-baggage/woodland-animals-collection-bcgpr009/
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http://eurekaminusa.com/collections/dark-ages-saga-animals-28mm
http://www.wargamesfoundry.com/our-ranges/general-purpose-animals-carts-and-baggage/woodland-animals-collection-bcgpr009/
That's what I'm talkin' about. The Foundry link gives you Red, Fallow, and Roe deer---all European, although the Red male could pass as an Elk if it's not too small---and the Eureka link gives you a "stag" which resembles no American deer and has the wrong antlers for an elk.
At least there's plenty of buffalo available out there. And longhorns.
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I'd rather have skulls with attached antlers - they were a common theme on old west buildings.
The worst thing is that 28mm antler sculpts tend to be grossly oversized and a horrible mockery that don't have much resemblance to any particular animal. Yet I can find pewter figures in about the same size in local trinket stores that do get it right in regards to the antlers and horns.
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Try this kickstarter for some dead dear/moose/various other dead roadkill animals and people
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/967512676/salvage-crew-28mm-humans
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I'd rather have skulls with attached antlers - they were a common theme on old west buildings.
The worst thing is that 28mm antler sculpts tend to be grossly oversized and a horrible mockery that don't have much resemblance to any particular animal. Yet I can find pewter figures in about the same size in local trinket stores that do get it right in regards to the antlers and horns.
I agree: even antlers without skulls were--and are!--common decorations in the American West. Haven't spend a lot of time looking, but Tabletop Art's collection is all I could come up with:
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqohwncKV61qmhr54.jpg)
Secret Weapon has a buffalo skeleton:
(http://www.secretweaponminiatures.com/images/bits/BuffaloSkeleton.jpg)
From conversations on other forums I take it that no one really makes longhorn cattle skulls, either, which would be helpful.
Truth be told, the skeleton discussion is more appropriate for the Old West forum. I saw a deer on a recent Old West post which was clearly a European Red Deer, which gave rise to my post. Actually, my best use of American deer minis would be for hidden movement markers in my French and Indian War skirmish gaming.
Still, being forced to populate our miniature American forests and plains with European species is, well, annoying.
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Still, some "live" versions of North American animals, especially Deer and Elk would be nice.
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Just got back from a trip to Pennsylvania, and made a detour into elk country near Benezette. Got up close and personal with a small herd of three dozen elk, or wapiti, 3 of which were bulls. Wapiti, as near as I can tell, is a Shawnee term meaning "white rump." The rut had just ended, so the boys got along, although they kept their distance. The rest, of course, were the females, called cows. Elk were reintroduced into Pennsylvania from the western US starting in 1913, and the area now boasts the largest free-roaming herd in the northeastern USA.
(http://wrgmr.com/images/elk2.jpg)
(http://wrgmr.com/images/elk4.jpg)
(http://wrgmr.com/images/elk5.jpg)
(http://wrgmr.com/images/elk1.jpg)
(http://wrgmr.com/images/elk6.jpg)
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nice elk pics.
Here in TN and MS white tail are grey brown year round and are mighty good eating. :P
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Great photos, the top one is my favourite. A mini based on that shot would be really good.
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a moose is what I would like to find
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a moose is what I would like to find
Only one I can find so far is from Brigade Games:
http://brigadegames.3dcartstores.com/Moose--set-28mm_p_3086.html
I'll post more if I find them.
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For those of you who insist on getting those details just exactly right: o_o
If you need a painting guide to American large mammals, the Smithsonian has an excellent series of field guides online:
WHITE TAILED DEER (Most of USA except arid/desert areas in west; SE Canada, most of western Canada)
Male, winter coat, left; female, summer coat, right, with fawn
(http://www.mnh.si.edu/mna/images/illustrations/TN_OVirginianus.jpg)
MULE DEER (Western USA and Canada)
Coastal summer variation, left (male); inland winter variation, male (center) and female (right)
(http://www.mnh.si.edu/mna/images/illustrations/TN_OHemionus.jpg)
ELK (Historically widespread throughout entire USA (except extreme southern fringe); SE Canada, and most of western Canada)
Male, bugling, left; female, right
(http://www.mnh.si.edu/mna/images/illustrations/TN_CElaphus.jpg)
MOOSE (Historically found in northern USA and Rocky Mountains, well north into most of Canada and Alaska)
Female, left; male, right
(http://www.mnh.si.edu/mna/images/illustrations/TN_AAlces.jpg)
PRONGHORN ANTELOPE (Western USA in open, expansive terrain)
Female, right; male, left
(http://www.mnh.si.edu/mna/images/illustrations/TN_AAmericana.jpg)
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try this one :
(http://www.miniatures-workshop.com/lostminiswiki/images/3/33/RP-10-402v2-box-front.jpg)
:D
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North Star has the former HLBS North American animals. Unfortunately, no photos for the moose or caribou:
http://www.northstarfigures.com/list.php?man=42&page=1
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And Sergeant Major Miniatures has these, which don't look all that great:
http://www.sgmm.biz/H5-4-Deer_p_464.html
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One more: Mega Miniatures used to produce all sorts of animals, but they're going out of business and I don't know if anyone picked up their moulds:
http://megaminis.com/
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The Ral Partha deer's ears are way too big, but other than that he's the best mini I've seen yet that could pass as a white tailed or mule deer. :)
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And Sergeant Major Miniatures has these, which don't look all that great:
http://www.sgmm.biz/H5-4-Deer_p_464.html
Here they are:
(http://www.sgmm.biz/assets/images/animals/h5.png)
Hard to tell how good they are with that heads-on photo. At least they're not too chunky (see below). Maybe I'll pick up a pack just to see what they really look like.
[/quote]One more: Mega Miniatures used to produce all sorts of animals, but they're going out of business and I don't know if anyone picked up their moulds:
http://megaminis.com/
Here are the MegaMinis deer:
(http://ebay.hurlbat.co.uk/MegaMinis/MEM-40010.jpg)
Too hairy and chunky for American deer. I suppose you could sand the hairy texture off their bodies.....
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WHITE TAILED DEER (Most of USA except arid/desert areas in west; SE Canada, most of western Canada)
Going to have to disagree with you there. For most of my life I lived less than 90 miles from the border in Arizona and hunted white tails more than once in the desert. They are well adapted to arid conditions. Sorry I can't help more with the figure hunt.
Snitchy sends.
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Have you looked at model railroad animals? S (1:64) or O (1:48) would be either marginally too big or too small for 28 mm (which is more or less 1:56, depending on who you ask). But as animals can come in different sizes that might not be too much of a problem.
These are O scale from Woodland Scenics:
http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/images/NewWSWeb/A2738_f_1.jpg
(http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/images/NewWSWeb/A2738_f_1.jpg)
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Oabee, you're my brother from another mother. I've looked at too many animal minis that only resemble the purported species by having the same number of legs, same number of heads, etc... I saw the Brigade moose recommended on another forum recently and stared slack-jawed at them for a minute. I suppose they could pass for moose if you assume they're doing their usual thing of wading through marshes or ponds.
I've sometimes thought of sculpting some halfways accurate animal minis, but didn't know if there was enough demand to make a go of it. (It seems the big four in wargaming are horses, elephants, and fantasy wolves and boars.) This topic and all the linked examples are starting to make me think otherwise, and you bring up a point about old west gaming. There've been a couple of times I've weighed up my options for sticking grizzlies in games of Gutshot...
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I've sometimes thought of sculpting some halfways accurate animal minis, but didn't know if there was enough demand to make a go of it. (It seems the big four in wargaming are horses, elephants, and fantasy wolves and boars.) This topic and all the linked examples are starting to make me think otherwise.
I think that's what Kickstarter's all about. I'd be your first backer! As long as your sculpts are in 28mm...... lol
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These are O scale from Woodland Scenics:
http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/images/NewWSWeb/A2738_f_1.jpg
(http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/images/NewWSWeb/A2738_f_1.jpg)
They sure do look like white tails. Since they're O scale, you're right, you have to wonder about their size. Only $16.00 on eBay, so price isn't too bad. Worth a look!
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So I picked up a pack of Woodland Scenics O Scale Deer (A2738) on eBay for $16.00 and free shipping. Here they are:
(http://wrgmr.com/images/woodlandscenics2.jpg)
(http://wrgmr.com/images/woodlandscenics1.jpg)
You hunters out there can verify this, but I do believe they are (slightly?) too big for 28mm. On the plus side they are more accurate depictions of white tails and mule deer than any other minis I have seen. And they're cheap. They are plastic and come pre-painted. You can use them as is or repaint (as their paint job is rudimentary). As to their size, out there in the woods or on the prairie by themselves, I believe they'll look just fine.
I apologize for using the Conquest Woodland Indians in the pictures on the Old West forum, but all my Old West minis are unpainted, as I am in the plannin' stage and haven't reached the paintin' stage. Imagine that---piles of unpainted metal littering the landscape: I bet no other wargamer has had that experience. :D
Mike