Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: Ahistorian on 01 December 2014, 05:18:49 PM
-
Hello Everyone,
I am about to come into quite a large collection of small-scale WW2 ships in a trade. Is there a good way to ID them quickly and accurately? My knowledge of the period is not deep enough to know all the ins and outs of turrets & such like off by heart.
Thanks,
M
-
Yes get yourself a copy of Janes.
-
Try Ship bucket http://shipbucket.com/index.php Click on real designs and the country then you'll find scale drawings of just about every ship every built. Look it up by name class or year.
-
I will see if I can find a copy of their World War Two compendium. But that only takes care of accuracy, no? Won't I have to go through the whole book trying to find out what is what by matching models to photos?
It looks like some of the ships have tags on the backs of their bases - "CA I 4", that sort of thing. Are they historical identifiers, or just made up by whichever player owned them last?
EDIT: Looks like Bezzo broached my first point for me!
@ warlord frod: Thanks, an impressive resource - though it still suffers from the same problem as Jane's - namely my inability to use it super-quickly! ;D
-
I was vaguely aware of the abbreviations for different classes - where could I find a list of ship designations? My google-fu has already F.U. over this whole affair...
I will be very upset if it turns out to be the Chicago. I have been promised that it is a WW2 box of ships.
-
I was vaguely aware of the abbreviations for different classes - where could I find a list of ship designations? My google-fu has already F.U. over this whole affair...
Wikipedia's got a list, and at first glance, it seems to be correct, overall:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_classification_symbol
-
Brilliant, thank you!
-
Put out an appeal to David Manley - he'll probably recognise half of them straight off. Not sure if he's on here, but if not he used to have a blog that had contact details, and he's a friendly helpful sort of chap.
-
I may do that - it depends how useful the information on the models' existing bases is. Ooh, it's like Christmas Eve! :D
-
Do you know the manufacturer? If so, most have images of the minis you can match up.
-
Sadly, there was a misunderstanding with the original trade, so the ships should be joining their Dark Age brethren on Tuesday.
And sadder still, I don't know the manufacturer, so it could potentially be very awkward to ID them all...
-
Wilco ;)
-
Well, the ships have arrived! It turns out that I have quite a varied mix of ships. I do love a good trade - it feels great to clear out the unused gubbins for bright shiny new toys.
One box contains 48 ships, all with British names underneath the bases, but which appear to be WWI-era vessels, a suspicion confirmed by the fact that among the 47 named vessels is the "Iron Duke". Luckily, several of them, like the Warspite & Arethusa, can be used in the later period too, so it's not a total loss. What am I saying!? It's no kind of loss at all, just a gentle introduction into the WWI period too!
The second box, the one with the aforementioned ship IDs, contains a rather large Japanese fleet (almost all named on the underside of the bases), and a set of green-and-bone vessels which I have no real clue about. The Japanese include: 9 carriers, 5 large capital ships, 16 cruisers, 19 aircraft stands and 50-60 destroyers, mostly unbased. There were also another 6 major vessels without bases.
They will all be getting touched up & re-based with a more cohesive colour scheme and clearer ship markings to aid speedy ID for me and my friends. I also have some ships for the Mediterranean turning up soon courtesy of another trade.
So, the pictures of the known fleets:
The might of Imperial Japan!
(http://i.imgur.com/HCgqHbp.jpg)
Hosts of Zeroes!
(http://i.imgur.com/PbELLu5.jpg)
The pride of (ye olde) Britain!
(http://i.imgur.com/DlM64lM.jpg)
And finally, as per Bezzo's suggestion, does anyone know what these ships are?
The green-and-bone fleet
(http://i.imgur.com/qM6FOul.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/NBeJsHF)
Could these Japanese destroyers pass as US or British vessels?
(http://i.imgur.com/eMSBtqm.jpg)
The unbased Japanese and the un-named British vessel
(http://i.imgur.com/wqLcHXo.jpg)
-
It is, isn't it - and hand-delivered in exchange for hand-painted Space Marines. I hope people see now why I didn't want to flick through Jane's for each of this 120+ ships!
Any clue on what those green ships are? I suspect they're American because the big battleship looks like the Iowa-class, but I'm not sure - I said the same thing about one of the unbased Japanese ships.
-
@Bezzo: Sadly not, no. These are the true mysteries of my new 1/3000th collection.
However, I just finished my first game & playtest for my homebrewed WWII quick-play naval rules! In a battle lasting just under an hour, two early-war fleets clashed on the open sea. They consisted of:
Japanese: 3 battleships, 4 cruisers, 11 destroyers (with torpedoes). They had four admirals in their force.
British: 5 battleships, 4 cruisers, 6 destroyers (CA & DD with torpedoes). They had three admirals in their force.
The British negated the Japanese gunnery advantage with a cunning use of smoke, before unleashing a whirlwind of shells and torpedoes at close range. When the Japanese morale finally hit rock bottom, the butcher's bill was:
Japanese: 7 destroyers, 2 cruisers and a battleship destroyed; 2 destroyers, 2 cruisers & 1 battleship damaged.
British: 2 destroyers & 1 battleship destroyed; 1 battleship & 3 cruisers crippled.
The British lost 1 admiral to the Japanese's two - the annihilation of a flagship in the final turn is what broke their morale, taking them from shaky to fleeing in one fell swoop. In terms of lost tonnage however, it was a pretty even match - except in destroyers, where the Japanese really took a pounding.
I have another game booked in with a friend for tonight, so time will tell which empire triumphs in the end.
-
As Bezzo said quite rightly, closer shots with elevations make identifying them easier. I do think I spot some ships on that picture, though:
(http://i.imgur.com/qM6FOul.jpg)
Generally-speaking, if a ship has a large, stacked central command "tower" for a superstructure, chances are it is a Japanese design. This "pagoda" style is rather distinctive for ships built after the switch to the all-big-gun battleship, especially those built after the Great War or those older ships converted in the 1920s.
I can immediately spot a Yamato class superdreadnought , atop the largest aircraft carrier (it would be the 7th from the top). So either Yamato or Musashi.
Judging from its island's shape and its overall size, that carrier below is probably Shinano, the third Yamato hull converted to a carrier and sunk in 1945 before entering service with barely a picture of it surviving - it could also be Taiho, since their islands are similarly-shaped, especially at the size of those ships.
The other carriers are also Japanese, by my reckoning, due to the placement of the island (on the port side), but it is hard to make a definitive decision: top down, I'd suspect Akagi, due to the small island and the deck shape, next (below the battlecruiser/battleship, which may be a retrofitted Kongo-class) could be Hiryu, but I am baffled by the last one. The gun nests at the bow are more akin to a US design, and there shouldn't be any other port-side island carrier after Akagi and Hiryu. Maybe a converted carrier, but its lacking an island and is a bit large for that.
If the other ships are painted in the same way, I'd suspect them to be IJN as well, various DDs, BBs and cruisers, most likely. I think I spy a Nagato-class BB near the top, but as said, better pictures of the individual ships would help tremendously.
-
Hi,
Side-on shots are here: http://imgur.com/a/GmHqI
Thanks for any & all help, guys!
-
In order of Imgur images:
1) HIJMS Ise or Hyuga hybrid CV conversion
2) The other :)
3) HIJMS Kongo class, I would say HIJMS Hiei
4) Myoko class heavy cruiser, probably the HIJMS Chokai from the massive conning tower.
5) another Kongo class
6) HIJMS Ise/Hyuga before conversion
7) HIJMS Yamato
8-9) HIJMS NAgato and Mutsu before reconstruction
I will look at the carriers later... but god, these ships are awful, the Navwar ones I painted were much much better.
-
Thank you, Chris & Arrigo. Looks like my IJN is even larger than anticipated then!
The second game was a draw, coming down to the line for an incredibly tense last three turns. The final fire phase was an absolute bloodbath, seeing the sinking of six or seven ships (most of them, admittedly, were either already crippled or hit with 4-5 simultaneous volleys of torpedoes). The butcher's bill was high again, with both sides losing about two thirds of their fleets.
EDIT: The third and final game with the exact same fleets was a second British victory, coming 26:17 in victory points. Neither side used smoke this time, so the battleships had a field day. Combined with co-ordinated torpedo strikes from destroyers, there were a few terrible casualties, including two Japanese admirals in one turn, and in another, a whole squadron of four British cruisers.
The final tally for this 45 minute game was:
British: 4 destroyers & 4 cruisers lost; 2 battleships crippled
Japanese: 7 destroyers & 3 cruisers lost; 1 battleship & 1 cruiser crippled
-
among the 47 named vessels is the "Iron Duke".
I have two pieces of deck teak turned into decorative barrels on my bookcase.
My father was posted to her in September 1939 from HMS Glasgow for a W/T course ready to transfer to Royal Oak.
-
That's cool. It's always nice to have these connections to history.