Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Age of the Big Battalions => Topic started by: Fighting15s on 13 December 2014, 04:22:14 PM
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After a lull, I have restarted my 54mm garden wargaming project and begun painting. It's a very new size for me, as my armies are mainly 15mm AB Napoleonics and 18mm Eureka Seven Years War. Here is my first attempt at cavalry in 54mm: Inniskillen dragoons from A Call to Arms. I'm going for slightly different from traditional toy soldier style.
(https://oldschoolminis.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/54mm_inniskillen_dragoons.jpg)
Blog http://oldschoolminis.wordpress.com/2014/12/13/personal-projects-time-to-move-on-up-2/ (http://oldschoolminis.wordpress.com/2014/12/13/personal-projects-time-to-move-on-up-2/)
Ian
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There was a large 54mm game at Battleground/Smoggycon
Page 2 picture below Tarawa beach:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=70410.15
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I like the painting style. But you're mad. ;)
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There was a large 54mm game at Battleground/Smoggycon
Page 2 picture below Tarawa beach:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=70410.15
There have been a couple on the shows circuit over the past few years. I think it's an ideal size for demonstration games.
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Skirmish Wargames Group used to do all their games in 54mm at one time.
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I recently got the 54mm bug as well. I think your dragoons turned out great. After seeing them, I ordered a set of the ACTA Inniskillen Dragoons for myself.
With Neil Thomas's rules having 8 units, what were you plans in terms of 54mm? 4 cavalry miniatures = 1 unit? Or are you going bigger?
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I am also joining in the madness - in fact I may have encouraged Ian to start again lol
I'm painting Bavarians and Wurtembergers at the moment. The first test ones are here:
(http://mikelewis.info/littlewars/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/nap1.jpg)
I've gone for a more glossy Toy Soldier look.
We are looking at 2 cavalry on a base and 4 infantry.
I am also starting a 54mm ECW project:
(http://mikelewis.info/littlewars/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/ecw1.jpg)
(http://mikelewis.info/littlewars/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/ecw2.jpg)
These are block painted, then super shaded before being varnished.
I already play NWF in 54mm and played a 54mm Cold Wars modern game this morning using Neil Thomas rules...
Mike
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I recently got the 54mm bug as well. I think your dragoons turned out great. After seeing them, I ordered a set of the ACTA Inniskillen Dragoons for myself.
With Neil Thomas's rules having 8 units, what were you plans in terms of 54mm? 4 cavalry miniatures = 1 unit? Or are you going bigger?
Units will be 16 infantry, 8 cavalry, based as Mike says. We're aiming at 80mm square bases, which is roomy for the infantry, but just fits two troopers comfortably. Ultimately, I will have bases made with lawn spikes. Playing room isn't an issue as I have half an acre of lawn out front.
I discovered Alexanders Toy Soldiers http://www.ats-uk.net/ (http://www.ats-uk.net/) at the recent London Toy Soldier Show, and I picked up some bare castings of command figures to go with the plastic other ranks. ATS will do requests for castings by email - it's painted only figures on the website. I've just ordered a selection. I commented to Mike it was just like starting out again back in the 1970s, with metal figures to fill the gaps in plastic ranges. And if I've had a particularly good month, I may buy an all-metal unit for stuff that isn't in plastic. :)
Although I sell some of the finest model soldiers in their sizes, I am viewing the 54mm very much as toy soldiers. This means being less critical of mould lines, wrong details, and lack of detail. However, the proportions of the figures are much better.
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I am also joining in the madness - in fact I may have encouraged Ian to start again lol
It's great to have a partner in crime. Making both sides yourself is taxing at times. It's definitely results in smaller unit sizes. Half the figure count means both armies are done instead of just one 8)
I've gone for a more glossy Toy Soldier look.
I'm still figuring out what style I'm going to go with. I've been painting some ACTA colonial british:
(http://i.imgur.com/AGDHOll.jpg)
The yellow on the Post Office Rifles soldier (the guy on the left) is wrong, but I just didn't like the way the green looked, so I changed it. They're some sort of different Post Office Rifles rather than the ones from Middlesex.
I've decided for my Napoleonics I'm going to do a bit less sloppy highlighting and go for a block paint job of a brighter colour, a thin coat of gloss varnish, a burnt umber oil wash, clean up most of it and then manually blackline every colour transition as well. I'll probably still highlight the faces and hands a bit, but I'm finding the 28mm style speed highlight just isn't doing it for me compared to pictures of block painted, simply shaded and black lined stuff I'm seeing. My goal is to have them be like the colonials I painted, but cleaner looking.
Hopefully my stuff will turn out like Mark from New Zealand's but be 54mm:
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ic_EwCagbwk/VD4-6Xgi8dI/AAAAAAAABqk/372_qPSbEwY/s1600/f01%2B(1024x386).jpg)
http://chasseuracheval.blogspot.co.nz/2014/10/how-i-base.html
We are looking at 2 cavalry on a base and 4 infantry.
I'm probably just going to keep mine on the 30mm washers and do the movement tray thing if I feel the need. Half the figures though, so it's less of an issue.
These are block painted, then super shaded before being varnished.
It's an extra step, but a buddy of mine uses coat d'arms super shader type stuff and does a thin gloss varnish beforehand (he does mostly fantasy stuff for RPGs). He actually damp brushes it on with a big brush just so the highest points don't get stained by the shader like matte acrylic hobby paints often do. I ended up going with oil and water colour washes, but that's more fiddly.
I think the ECW guys turned out great though. Thanks for the pictures. When I first re-discovered 1/32, it took a lot of will power not to get two ECW armies out of ACTA plastics. I'm trying to concentrate on 1700-WW1.
Units will be 16 infantry, 8 cavalry, based as Mike says. We're aiming at 80mm square bases, which is roomy for the infantry, but just fits two troopers comfortably. Ultimately, I will have bases made with lawn spikes. Playing room isn't an issue as I have half an acre of lawn out front.
It's not nice enough for enough of the year for me to plan on the project being mainly outdoors, so I'm definitely jealous.
I discovered Alexanders Toy Soldiers http://www.ats-uk.net/ (http://www.ats-uk.net/) at the recent London Toy Soldier Show, and I picked up some bare castings of command figures to go with the plastic other ranks. ATS will do requests for castings by email - it's painted only figures on the website. I've just ordered a selection. I commented to Mike it was just like starting out again back in the 1970s, with metal figures to fill the gaps in plastic ranges. And if I've had a particularly good month, I may buy an all-metal unit for stuff that isn't in plastic. :)
All The Kings Men Toy Soldiers is on this side of the Atlantic, so that's my planned source for metals and individual heads for conversions. How are ATS priced compared for unpainted? £44 for one cavalry officer is for painted, but what about unpainted casts?
Although I sell some of the finest model soldiers in their sizes, I am viewing the 54mm very much as toy soldiers. This means being less critical of mould lines, wrong details, and lack of detail. However, the proportions of the figures are much better.
I decided I'm not doing a particular order of battle. Just the sort of general troop types I feel like painting while still covering different unit types for game purposes. So I'm okay if the figures don't quite have all the details and equipment or braids or whatever than a given unit did in a real battle on a given day.
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It's not nice enough for enough of the year for me to plan on the project being mainly outdoors, so I'm definitely jealous.
All The Kings Men Toy Soldiers is on this side of the Atlantic, so that's my planned source for metals and individual heads for conversions. How are ATS priced compared for unpainted? £44 for one cavalry officer is for painted, but what about unpainted casts?
I get fairly good weather here on the Isle of Wight in summer, but I wouldn't be out there now. :) But I can run to 8ft by 5ft in the shed when it's too wet, which should still be big enough. Mike can easily run to 9ft by 5ft.
ATS castings are GBP6.50 for infantry (not ensigns), and GBP16.50 for cavalry. For 54mm toy soldiers that's not horrible, especially if they're only providing the command elements. I also buy from Ken at ATKM, and earlier this year picked up some artillery and French cuirassiers before his agreement to cast them came to an end. The plastics are my warm-up figures before I start work on his metals.
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I get fairly good weather here on the Isle of Wight in summer, but I wouldn't be out there now. :) But I can run to 8ft by 5ft in the shed when it's too wet, which should still be big enough. Mike can easily run to 9ft by 5ft.
A few times a year I'm at a gaming day where enough tables can be pushed together, but generally I'll be on 8x4 and smaller. For the times when I only have 4x4 available, I'll probably break out something like Song of Drums & Shakos or Sharpe Practice and go for less models on the table via 1:1 skirmish.
ATS castings are GBP6.50 for infantry (not ensigns), and GBP16.50 for cavalry. For 54mm toy soldiers that's not horrible, especially if they're only providing the command elements. I also buy from Ken at ATKM, and earlier this year picked up some artillery and French cuirassiers before his agreement to cast them came to an end. The plastics are my warm-up figures before I start work on his metals.
The ATS prices are okay for one-off officers and whatnot. They are pretty nice. I keep hearing that A Call To Arms makes small figures for 1:32. I haven't yet compared their cavalry to any other. I've heard Armies in Plastic is gigantic but other than that most other manufacturers mix fine with ACTA. Though even if the ATS end up being bigger, that'll probably be a feature as it'll make the officier and colour party stand out.
I wasn't around for the birth of 1/72 plastics and the practice of supplementing them with metals back in the day. The closest I've come to something like that was when GW first started doing plastics and you'd get things like these (and then you could buy the leader, musician and standard bearer in metal in a blister):
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-IGPvxKqIAJY/UaIOgDYsj3I/AAAAAAAABDY/nOwILD0R6MM/s1600/Halbderdiers2.jpg)
Though that didn't involve chasing down figures from multiple manufacturers and hoping they worked out as far as size goes.
I think your metals will turn out very, very nice given what you've done with the ACTA plastic dragoons. Especially given your willingness to paint on detail like white on the cuffs. How much easier will it be when the detail is actually there on the miniature.
What were you planning on doing for your commanders? Were you planning on getting your hands on a 54mm Napoleon or Wellington or something like that?
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Though that didn't involve chasing down figures from multiple manufacturers and hoping they worked out as far as size goes.
I think your metals will turn out very, very nice given what you've done with the ACTA plastic dragoons. Especially given your willingness to paint on detail like white on the cuffs. How much easier will it be when the detail is actually there on the miniature.
What were you planning on doing for your commanders? Were you planning on getting your hands on a 54mm Napoleon or Wellington or something like that?
As Mike I and keep reminding each other, they're toy soldiers. Discrepancies in size aren't a big issue. The lifeguard trumpeter I got from ATS is huge compared with the plastics from ACTA, mounted on a massive charging horse. He'll be noticeable - at 6ft 6in, he could be the champion of the regiment, mounted on the biggest horse (though I may mount him on one of the plastics). Not yet painted, he will already have a personality.
I do find ACTA slighter compared with, say, Italeri.
My painting technique is in essence the same two-shade style I've adopted for 15mm and 28mm for speed. The Inniskillens have seen an experiment with washes (I'm not convinced, except on the horse), and brown-lining with Coat d'arms Rust where red meets anything else. My only observation really is that 54mm figures eat paint.
I have the British/Prussian and French generals boxes from Italeri to provide my initial generals, but would happily buy a metal casting of a personality from ATS or even Tradition.
I should add that I've gone for 1812 to 1815 because of the number of plastics sets suited to these years, though I first started thinking about 54mm because of the 1798 Austrians from Italeri. I usually don't go much past 1807. :)
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It definitely looks like 1812-15 is the way to go as far as plastics are concerned. I've been finding some cool 54mm tin figures from Eastern Europe that I'll probably use for named personalities. I also should probably put in an order for more heads and colour parties with ATKM before year end comes and they can't sell them anymore. :?
I have a soft spot for HaT figures as well, so I'll probably get some of theirs as well. I've painted some of their 1/72 and pictures of their 1/32 lead me to believe they'll support both a simple toy soldier painting approach and a heavily black lines approach equally, so they should work wherever I end up.
(http://i.imgur.com/B18qSDC.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/o1lyv9M.jpg)
Pretty much all I do for washes these days are oil and water colours over gloss varnish. A minute or so long video by Les Bursley:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nNSRvmvAXM
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"Skirmish Wargames Group used to do all their games in 54mm at one time."
Um...well we still do actually, although to be fair of late it would be more accurate to say 'most of our games are in 54mm' as other scales have also featured, including 1/18th 95mm!! And indeed I took 54mm games to America and put them on at Historicon to help bring the One True Scale to the heathens.
It is very pleasing to see more and more 54mm games appearing at shows all over the country as gamers come over to the Dark Side!
The truth is that there has never been so many plastic, and indeed metal, figures available in the scale, or close to it ie 60mm 1/30th. It is a golden age, and whilst production of new sets has slowed down with the world recession there are still more available now than at any time in the last 70 years.
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What would people recommend for 54mm Napoleonic Artillery? People seem to like Armies in Plastic guns. The crew is nice and big and toy soldier style. Any others I should consider?
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AFAIK the only other artillery are the CTA British and the Supreme/Tiger Russians.
IMHO CTA are like so many of their sets a bit on the little side but detail is nicely done. The Russians are excellent, being plastic versions of the King & Country painted metal figures! They are 60mm though, in case that bothers you.
FWIW We have both, and the AIP (which I think are great) all on the table at the same time and they look fine.
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AFAIK the only other artillery are the CTA British and the Supreme/Tiger Russians.
IMHO CTA are like so many of their sets a bit on the little side but detail is nicely done. The Russians are excellent, being plastic versions of the King & Country painted metal figures! They are 60mm though, in case that bothers you.
FWIW We have both, and the AIP (which I think are great) all on the table at the same time and they look fine.
I don't think the scale issue will bother me that much. I'll probably get a AIP cannon or two and if I don't like how the crew look, I'll find replacement crew. Though I'll probably be fine with it.
EDIT: Okay, I'll definitely be fine with it. I'm beginning to think that the larger the miniatures are, the less small differences matter. Check out this picture of some small infantry (painted by Ragnar) standing in front of some huge cavalry.
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/alamoRob/frontrank40m001.jpg)
Those are Front Rank 40mm infantry standing in front of 54mm cavalry. I think variations between 54-60mm figures will be fine on the table top. I try not to order more miniatures until the ones I have are done, but I got excited and ordered some AIP artillery.
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I have some boxes of ACTA and Italeri plastic artillery, plus the Stockade figures that All the King's Men did. I originally thought that I might not need that much artillery... :-) I actually don't need much for my initial project, but I buy extra boxes anyway in the event that they go out of production.
I've just started looking at the Prince August options for infantry, and am bearing in mind the cannon. If the French crew have the same separate heads as the infantry, then swapping bicornes and shakos will be easier.
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This is an interesting thread.....I too am starting to collect 54mm figures as I am finding them easier to paint now my eyes are slightly wonky o_o, although am concentrating on ECW and WSS . Anybody know if there are any dedicated 54mm gaming forums out there?
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Little Wars Yahoo Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/littlewars/
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Thanks Mike, I am trying to join now, but Yahoo is telling me I am too young (46) ???
I'll try again later once I have matured a bit.
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How strange!
You will be made welcome when you get through-long standing group with less activity than there once was but a lot of good info in the archives of old posts and plenty of members happy to help newcomers to the Darkside by answering questions.
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I couldn't join either. Couldn't get past Captcha, either visually or aurally
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Oh dear - I can only suggest you keep trying. Yahoo can be very stupid about the Captcha thing and it can take repeated attempts to get the bloody thing to accept you are not a robot!
Please do persevere as new blood is always welcome and provides a stimulous for us old fogies both in answering questions and in making us look at things differently.
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Turns out I joined quite some time ago when I was first trying to decide between 54mm and 40mm. I don't think I posted, but I'm pretty sure I searched through some of the archives. I'll probably make an introductory post soon.
And look what arrived, my dragoons!
(http://i.imgur.com/JjG8jEv.jpg)
I added a second lamp, but the only bulb I had was soft white rather than daylight. It definitely made things worse. It's actually quite annoying considering what my cheap cell phone camera can do in good natural light:
(http://i.imgur.com/zZ8bNMB.jpg)
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Whilst not wishing in any way to lessen your enjoyment, IMHO those have to be some of the worst figures ever made! ;)
The Supreme/Tiger French or British Light cavalry with new heads would be so much better.
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Any idea where one can get Supreme figures in the UK? I did ask one UK dealer who got quite offensive about me asking if he stocked such 'terrible figures'..... I rather like their knights and Vikings, although I haven't seen any other periods.
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A lot of Supreme Napoleonics turn up regularly on E Bay, search under "other toy soldiers" that is generally where they hide out, if that is any help to you. As for forums I wonder if it would be worth petitioning the good Professor for a dedicated sub section here. 54mm and 40mm Toy Soldiering is quite healthy and it is always good to nurture it a bit.
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Tiger Hobbies is the UK stockist. The have both a regular website and an eBay presence. diecastmilitarymodels.co.uk or search eBay (this may work http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Tiger-Hobbies-Limited/Plastic-Toy-Soldiers-1-32).
Was it Steve Weston? He said much the same to me even though I tried to get him to see that beneath the ghastly paint job the figures were OK or even better. The Napoleonic Russians are recasts of King & Country painted metal, so how can the be 'terrible figures'? Repainted they look just like the very expensive metal originals.
The French cavalry are 'original' though based on Italeri (the head is a bicorne from the Earl French infantry) and the British Light Cavalry are straight copies of the British Light Dragoons (IMHO one of Italeri's best figures), as are the horses for both. Both provide super conversion material at a ridiculously cheap price.
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Was it Steve Weston? He said much the same to me even though I tried to get him to see that beneath the ghastly paint job the figures were OK or even better. The Napoleonic Russians are recasts of King & Country painted metal, so how can the be 'terrible figures'? Repainted they look just like the very expensive metal originals.
Not really interested in prepainted figures unless the paint is super thin and easily painted over or can be easily removed. All the pictures I'm finding seem to have very thick paint. Do you have any pictures of repainted Supreme/Tiger figures, because all the pictures I'm seeing in my searches make them far less appealing than my ACTA cavalry (and that's saying something)?
Other sellers might be making the right move as far as a commercial product is concerned as convincing people they really are good despite how they look seems like an unnecessary barrier to sales. Especially in such a visual hobby. My location also seems to be getting in the way of me getting these. All the ebay sellers that have them charge huge amounts for shipping and Tiger's shopping cart systems tells me there's no shipping option to my location.
As for the A Call to Arms cavalry, my plan is to block paint them in a traditional toy soldier line, give them a watercolour wash (over gloss varnish and cleaned off most the surfaces with a damp cotton swab) and then blackline them and then matte varnish them to finish. Seeing them in person, it looks like they will work fine for my purposes. I find a couple of the posts to be very 2 dimensional though. They are not as nice as their Zulu Wars range though.
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Tiger Hobbies is the UK stockist. The have both a regular website and an eBay presence. diecastmilitarymodels.co.uk or search eBay (this may work http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Tiger-Hobbies-Limited/Plastic-Toy-Soldiers-1-32).
Was it Steve Weston? He said much the same to me even though I tried to get him to see that beneath the ghastly paint job the figures were OK or even better. The Napoleonic Russians are recasts of King & Country painted metal, so how can the be 'terrible figures'? Repainted they look just like the very expensive metal originals.
Thanks for the link...being new to the 54mm world it's surprising just how much the suppliers/sources vary from the 6mm-28mm scene. Yes it was Steve Weston, who successfully lost my future custom in his tirade (at least until I am desperate for a Replicants figure).
A lot of Supreme Napoleonics turn up regularly on E Bay, search under "other toy soldiers" that is generally where they hide out, if that is any help to you. As for forums I wonder if it would be worth petitioning the good Professor for a dedicated sub section here. 54mm and 40mm Toy Soldiering is quite healthy and it is always good to nurture it a bit.
That would be a great idea, but perhaps a separate board for 'big is beautiful' encompassing all periods? Anyone with more time willing to petition the Gods of LAF ?
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I prefer period specific boards (e.g. I'm more likely to get ideas from a 54mm FIW game and use it in a 15mm game). And then you'd also need 6mm, 10mm, 15mm, 20mm, 25mm, 28mm, 32mm, 40mm and 54mm boards.
Where would my 8mm Eskimo gunpowder-era zombie project go?
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I prefer period specific boards (e.g. I'm more likely to get ideas from a 54mm FIW game and use it in a 15mm game). And then you'd also need 6mm, 10mm, 15mm, 20mm, 25mm, 28mm, 32mm, 40mm and 54mm boards.
Where would my 8mm Eskimo gunpowder-era zombie project go?
Well, it's true LAF works on period specifics, I just thought that a large scale specific board might get large scale gamers together. If I posted my 54mm toy soldier style ECW project on the appropriate existing LAF board, chances are it would be of limited interest to 95% of the board uses....... 54mm (and indeed 40mm to an extent) seem to be quite separated from other scales being rarely mentioned in the magazines or represented at shows (with exception of the Skirmish Wargames Group).
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I like period specific as well. I would never have learned about 54mm as a real possibility without seeing people talk about it in a period specific forum. If it was segmented away in a scale based forum, I'd have never known to go in there.
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Nathan
Having seen the photo of your painted figures, if that is how you paint the ACTA cavalry will look the best they possibly could and much better than any figures of mine! But I would still prefer the Supreme/Tiger figures because they do not have their arms flung about in all kinds of strange directions!
The paint layer on the Supreme figures is the usual thickness, a few microns! It can be painted over without any problem ie it will not lose detail I can assure you. I think some of my figures are on my PhotoBucket site - I'll check it and post the link. I made Russian and Austrian cavalry from them.
(http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu266/MikeBlake/Skirmish%20Wargames%20Games/Warfare%202011/IMG_1278.jpg) (http://s654.photobucket.com/user/MikeBlake/media/Skirmish%20Wargames%20Games/Warfare%202011/IMG_1278.jpg.html)
Oops I have put in the photo itself. Oh well, the Supreme/Tiger Light Dragoonsas Austrian Dragoons . (The shot comes from a Napoleonic game we had at Warfare in 2011) .
As to the scale basis for the DG here I'd stick with periods, because I like the cross-fertilisation from seeing what others are doing in the period but in their own preferred scales. I frequently take a figure in another scale as a direct inspiration for one in 54mm! And is there a danger of it becoming a scale ghetto - only people who are already into 54mm looking because the others think if doesn't interest them?
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Well it saves setting up a new board. For me a large scale specific board would concentrate a lot of 40mm and 54mm goodness to save me spending time trawling over the forum/net in which I could be painting, but I can see the other side of the argument too :)
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I would suggest that you big is beautiful lovers* ensure you add "40mm", "54mm", etc to the thread title. As is the case for this thread. Makes finding and clicking very easy (it's why I clicked on this thread initially).
*I have some 40mm Sash & Saber AWI I'm going to paint this year after basing them last month, so I'm part of the club.
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Having seen the photo of your painted figures, if that is how you paint the ACTA cavalry will look the best they possibly could
Having them right in front of me, I definitely agree. They are not in the same league as the hard to find Italeri stuff, for example.
and much better than any figures of mine! But I would still prefer the Supreme/Tiger figures because they do not have their arms flung about in all kinds of strange directions!
I'm still trying to figure out how to rank up the A Call to Arms dragoons so their swords don't bump into other models. I'm going for smaller space per miniature than some do for 54mm (I'm going with about a 30mm base width per figure) and the ACTA dragoons are presenting some challenges in that area. After being pretty impressed with their Zulu Wars british, I was thinking maybe i'd do Ancients in 54mm and then saw the poses for their Romans:
(http://marsfigures.com/cataloge/figures/1426440829_07.jpg)
Even if people are just buying them to paint and display or for dioramas, do people really want three out of four of their romans not having their shields forward? So if Supreme ends up being good despite being prepainted and Tiger will ship to me, this might become an option:
(http://www.diecastmilitarymodels.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/TS93294-B-SILVER-ROMANS.jpg)
Those poses are just *so* much better.
The paint layer on the Supreme figures is the usual thickness, a few microns! It can be painted over without any problem ie it will not lose detail I can assure you. I think some of my figures are on my PhotoBucket site - I'll check it and post the link. I made Russian and Austrian cavalry from them.
Awesome. That is good to hear. Supreme and Tiger haven't done the greatest job with photographs of these figures and my own image searches didn't leave me that positive of an impression.
(http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu266/MikeBlake/Skirmish%20Wargames%20Games/Warfare%202011/IMG_1278.jpg) (http://s654.photobucket.com/user/MikeBlake/media/Skirmish%20Wargames%20Games/Warfare%202011/IMG_1278.jpg.html)
I'm going to contact Tiger Hobbies and see if they actually will ship to Canada even though their shopping cart system doesn't seem to support it. EDIT: I contacted them and will now wait and see if they'll ship to Canada so I can check these out in person.
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If he wont, and knowing Gary as I do I suspect he might, I'd be happy to buy them and then ship them to you at cost if that would help.
I can also mark the package as a Gift to try to avoid import taxes! ;)
I have all the Romans (again they are almost straight copies of King & Country painted metal collector's figures; they just have some in-fills from the moulding process which are easily removed) and they paint very nicely.
BTW Painting over paint I always seal with a coat of button polish. That and the primer (a single colour white. black or grey) and the real paint still comes to only a few microns and doesn't obscure detail.
FWIW clicking on the photo will take you to the Photobucket album with lots more photos of the game, and also to my other albums. Lots of conversions but oddly none of the Supreme/Tiger conversions as far as I can see - perhaps I should upload some.
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If he wont, and knowing Gary as I do I suspect he might, I'd be happy to buy them and then ship them to you at cost if that would help.
I can also mark the package as a Gift to try to avoid import taxes! ;)
I may have to take you up on that.
(http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu266/MikeBlake/Skirmish%20Wargames%20Games/Warfare%202011/IMG_1234.jpg)
This shows how small the CTA cavalry are - though supposedly big men on big horses, they are barely taller than the standing Prussian gunners! Such a shame.
I looked some things up (The Oxford Companion to Military History <-- don't know if it's a good source or not) and it looks like French Cuirassiers were given horses 15.3 hands and taller. Sadly if you measure the ACTA horses and multiply by 32, they only end up at 14.6 or so hands. They are too small for the cavalry figures on them. And if the Cuirassiers are anything like my dragoons, they're slight and small riders as well. My ACTA Zulu Wars guys are big compared to the riders. When my Armies in Plastic stuff arrives, I'm sure they'll dwarf the riders.
I think I'll be fine with the size difference as I'm not really that sensitive to it, but if someone was I could totally see the ACTA cavalry being a let down. And if we set aside personal aesthetics, they are just factually too small to be 1:32 heavy cavalry. I'm going to build up their bases a bit to increase their height, but there's nothing I can do about the spindly riders-- oh, other than using the hot salt method to fix their arms a bit so they can rank up. Basically you heat up salt in a shallow pan on the stove, test it on a sprue/waste plastic, heat the figure up, repose it and then plunge it in cold water. The salt can get much hotter than the 100C of boiling water so it can reset the memory of the figure so it won't slowly bend back. Be careful though as if you go too hot, the individual grains of salt will melt into the figure-- hence the test.
(http://i.imgur.com/qF8RNft.jpg)
What it looks like if you go too hot (image by sennacherub via dakka)
BTW Painting over paint I always seal with a coat of button polish. That and the primer (a single colour white. black or grey) and the real paint still comes to only a few microns and doesn't obscure detail.
I like acrylic gesso for priming as it stays flexible and use polyeruthane based varnishes for the same reason. The 1/32 figures seem stronger and less bendy than the 1/72 figures, but I'm still using the same techniques as I know staying flexible in primer, paint and varnish works well when things bend. What do you find the button polish accomplishes? Is it a shellac? Does it go rigid once cured?
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The salt thing is a new one on me! Will have to give it a go. I just use boiling hot water-cold water, both to alter and re-straighten arms, legs, muskets etc. I generally replace all soft plastic swords with metal or hard plastic (eg those made by Helmet Soldiers, helmetsoldiers.co.uk, who also do heads, bodies and legs plus firearms and swords etc). My latest trick is to use plastic toothpicks, which are cheap, tough and start off almost the right shape!
Button polish is indeed shellac and is an idea I picked up from film and TV set design - it is used in vast quantities to seal mixed surfaces where something has been made eg from plaster, wood and metal, but needs to end up looking like something else when painted eg brick. It shrinks to form a tight flexible skin in much the same way as PVA.
I too like gessos as primers! Only discovered them a couple of years ago but now use them pretty much exclusively.
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If the hot water works and you find things don't bend back on their own over time, then I'd stick with it. The hot salt thing is a product of vinyl figure modelling where things bend back over the next 24-48 hours if you just use hot water. I didn't use a thermometer so it's entirely possible that my salt was really close to the 100C of boiling water and it was needless work. It is fun though.
Thank you for letting me know about Helmet Soldiers! It's amazing what you have around you in the UK as far as miniature wargaming and toy soldiers is concerned.
The button polish sounds perfect for flexible plastic soldiers. I'll look into it.
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I have just completed my first unit of HAT Bavarians:
(http://mikelewis.info/littlewars/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/bav1.jpg)
I'm very pleased with the way they came out and the Toy Soldier style which suits them.
The next unit of Wurttemberger Jaeger's is already on the painting table:
(http://mikelewis.info/littlewars/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/cat.jpg)
(assistance by Gizmo the cat...)
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Bavarians! Is that made up of HaT's command set and the marching set? I really like the way they split those boxes.
I'm still trying to figure out what I'm going to do as far as battles, nations, etc., goes. Part of me wants to pick a historical battle and get the forces for it and part of me wants to build sort of a general French vs Allies type thing where I just do whatever I feel like.
Here's a relatively simple question: French line infantry in 54mm. What's out there? What do you like?
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Nathan,
Airfix did a nice box of French Line, but these are getting harder to obtain. Armies in Plastic and Call to Arms still do French Line. HaT have French Light infantry also split into various sets like the Bavarians. Check out the Plastic Soldier Review, and sites like Steve Weston's Toy soldiers. Also a search on E Bay under the heading "Other Toy Soldiers" is worthwhile. Hope this is of some help.
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One thing I'm figuring out since I started with 54mm is that you have to accept what is and not be too picky about figures with differing sculpting styles (or even scales) and painting conversions and head swaps and whatnot will go a long way if you let them.
I have some AIP artillery on the way. I'm hoping the more toy soldier aesthetic of them will really work well with my high contrast black line approach.
I finished my dragoons:
(http://36.media.tumblr.com/c3877aaf7a0c670eaeb628a31843f2db/tumblr_nhwrqi8YK51sr78y8o1_1280.jpg)
(http://40.media.tumblr.com/4ef4039dba2203316bc31f5795df1f49/tumblr_nhwrqi8YK51sr78y8o2_1280.jpg)
I also have decided to change my basing scheme for my Napoleonics to something more bright. Here is how they were before:
(http://40.media.tumblr.com/3f56178da4a4a5b8dc10978523221936/tumblr_nhr7eweUvM1sr78y8o1_1280.jpg)
My inspiration is this entry on the Ilkley Old School blog
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1Nkt0OFUjKM/TbXGlAa63PI/AAAAAAAAAqM/tH2bd3lgeLo/s1600/12.jpg)
http://ilkleyoldschool.blogspot.co.uk/2011/04/duchy-of-calvados.html
I want the game to be brighter and greener than my default approach of reddish brown/tan mud and yellow grass.
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...like I said, even these IMHO duff figures are transformed by a really excellent paint job! I doff my hat, sir.
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...like I said, even these IMHO duff figures are transformed by a really excellent paint job! I doff my hat, sir.
Thank you. My inner miser is willing to excuse a lot of faults given how cheap and easily available the ACTA stuff is. lol I have come to agree though, that they are simply too small for heavy cavalry in 54mm. The poses seems to be from a crazy swirling melee as well, so they look a bit chaotic when ranked up. I guess I could have chopped them up and bent them with heat a bit more, but it just seems like a lot of work to fix them. I'm sure they'll look the part when they're close in with some broken enemy infantry.
The bases are 1-1/4" washers. I doubled them up to give the figures a bit more height and heft. I haven't figured out yet whether I'll be moving things around individually or making sabots/movement trays. I'm definitely going to be going for a lower figure count game and think I'll probably be alright with individually based miniatures to start off.
I also don't really care for "base contact" as a wargaming convention. So I'm alright if the bases are round, or strange shapes. I like templates, sticks and rulers that can be laid right down on the table more than tape measures held above, so if the dragoons want to charge and turn out to be within range, they can just be moved reasonably close enough, like less than an inch away from the enemy. So I'll probably keep going with the strange peanut shaped bases.
These are my first cavalry in 54mm-- what do you all think about attaching riders permanently or keeping them separate? If you are transporting them, how do you go about doing it? I'm probably going to leave the riders as separate parts and use plastic containers with microfibre cloths for transporting them.
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If I am going to or likely to use the figures in Skirmish game,s ie one to one, I keep horse and rider separate but if for Battle games I fix them on permanently (before priming and painting).
For transport I use boxfiles with seed trays in for individual foot figures and artillery etc (cutting the tray modules to fit) and Really Useful plastic boxes with magnetic bottoms added and metal strips on figure bases where needed for everything else, to get the required depth.
Single figures with mag strips go on movement trays to speed up movement in games but again provided for skimish use if wanted.
The rules we use, Black Powder, for battles do not require removal of casualties in play, only whole units when destroyed, so the game looks good for longer.
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Nice looking cavalry - I have just started work on the French Dragoons.
I attach the rider to the horses and then put magnetic strip on the bases of the figures (I am basing my cavalry on 80mm x 40mm - which gives me 8 cavalry in a unit for the Neil Thomas rules we are using). I then put steel sheet on the inside of a Really Useful 9-litre box and store the cavalry and infantry that way.
Next up for me is a conversion of the French Line Artillery to Bavarians with a head swap from the HAT Bavarian pack.
I wish more people actually produced command packs - the limitation with French Line Infantry at the moment is command figures.
Mike
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Nice looking cavalry - I have just started work on the French Dragoons.
Thanks. I'm planning on finishing a unit of artillery and four of infantry for my British before moving on to the French. I'll probably end up getting the ACTA French Dragoons then. ACTA are on the small side for 54mm, but the wide availability and price will probably keep me coming back. I need to go check at the post office if my Armies in Plastic stuff has arrived. If they blow me away once I see them in person, that may disrupt my ACTA purchasing plan.
I attach the rider to the horses and then put magnetic strip on the bases of the figures (I am basing my cavalry on 80mm x 40mm - which gives me 8 cavalry in a unit for the Neil Thomas rules we are using). I then put steel sheet on the inside of a Really Useful 9-litre box and store the cavalry and infantry that way.
I just did some tests and... my cheap ebay washers are completely non-ferrous. Not even rare earth magnets stick to them. Oops. I had always thought that when the time came for movement trays that I'd put down some adhesive magnetic sheet as an added bonus. Oh well. I'll just have to go with the craft foam socket method instead. Alternatively I could put a strong rare earth magnet into the hole of each washer that's on the underside of the figures. There's a store a few blocks from me that sells them for cabinetry purposes.
Next up for me is a conversion of the French Line Artillery to Bavarians with a head swap from the HAT Bavarian pack.
I was thinking of turning some infantry into Dragons a pied at some point. Hopefully some head swaps, adding sabres and paint will be sufficient. Doing 54mm is not like 28mm where someone somewhere likely makes anything you could want. I'm going to be extra flexible when it comes to paint conversions and the like.
I wish more people actually produced command packs - the limitation with French Line Infantry at the moment is command figures.
Yeah. I'm not sure what I'm going to do for command stuff yet. I want at least a few flags on the table, they're definitely part of the fun. Officers and characters too. I'll probably end up building my own out of parts places like Helmet sell.
If I am going to or likely to use the figures in Skirmish game,s ie one to one, I keep horse and rider separate but if for Battle games I fix them on permanently (before priming and painting).
I plan on doing a lot with my figures. Some 1:1 skirmish games with things like Songs of Drums & Shakos or Sharpe Practice all the way up to 1 base = 1 brigade grand tactical type stuff. I painted my riders separately and have been contemplating gluing them on, but I think I'll keep them separate. It also drastically reduces the height of the figures for transport if I keep them separate. While I'll be using them for some home games, I also have a monthly miniature and board game club I'll be taking them to.
seed trays in for individual foot figures and artillery etc (cutting the tray modules to fit)
Seed trays! What a cool idea. It's -25C or so here right now so I'm not sure how much gardening stuff will be readily available, but I'll take a look the next time I'm out.
The rules we use, Black Powder, for battles do not require removal of casualties in play, only whole units when destroyed, so the game looks good for longer.
For the larger scope games I'm definitely going to forgo casualty removal.
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Nice work, Nathan. I hope to finish my own dragoons soon - six more to go with the initial two trial figures.
I don't mind the slender ACTA figures. In fact, for me, figures such as Italeri are too chunky, as is what turns out to be a Supreme British drummer I picked up at the Plastic Soldier Show. The Supreme figure is probably my least favourite of all my initial samples.
But, and here's the big but, one point of this project was not to worry myself about the differences in size of the figures, nor about the supposedly useless poses in some boxes. I am approaching 54mm very much with the mindset that the figures are toys - and cheap toys, at that.
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I definitely need to learn to relax about it. I guess I just spent too long doing 28mm historicals and worrying about compatibility and whatnot.
I got my Armies in Plastic stuff today. They are way, way more chunky and cartoony than ACTA. My initial impressions on opening the package was very, very positive though. They're so fun looking. They look like they'll be perfect for my block painting, wash, blackline approach. Compared to them, the ACTA figures look a lot more like historical modelling figures while the AiP stuff are definitely toy soldiers first and foremost. So chunky!
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I finished up the test figure for my Armies in Plastic Royal Horse Artillery.
I really like how they paint up. It was a very pleasant experience with big wide areas to paint and deep detail where one area meets another, but the figure is not covered in extra folds and whatnot. They're definitely toy soldiers. I ordered some of their British infantry as well.
(http://40.media.tumblr.com/951796d79a31ebabd4b61e77c94ebcf5/tumblr_ni6a4uA1UV1sr78y8o1_1280.jpg)
(http://40.media.tumblr.com/53f8092af4644caad7d8a00cc61456d2/tumblr_ni6a4uA1UV1sr78y8o2_1280.jpg)
(http://40.media.tumblr.com/2f7ac491ec56cb0c6eb9ecb237412096/tumblr_ni6a4uA1UV1sr78y8o3_1280.jpg)
I'm being unconventional in my basing and putting anyone on foot on 24mm washers. Whether I make sabot bases or just play with individually mounted figures, I'm pretty sure I can make that work. I had to snip away the moulded on base to make it fit on the washer, but it works even for the super wide poses. I also figured out why my washers don't stick to magnets. Apparently stainless steel becomes a non-magnetic alloy when you add 8-10% nickel. So even though it's mostly iron, magnets don't stick to it when it has that much nickel in it.
The cannon is amazing, but I'm making myself wait to paint it until after the crew are done.
EDIT: Here's a comparison shot with the ACTA Zulu Wars British Infantry I painted up earlier. I put a card protector under his base to make their feet level. The AiP is significantly larger in terms of bulk and height, but the ACTA stuff is more realistically proportioned.
(http://i.imgur.com/cF1L0Ai.jpg)
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Very nicely done!
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Lovely stuff.
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Thanks! I just got back from a job site where I had to work up inside a false ceiling with decades worth of dust and whatnot and I'm not sure I'm up for painting tonight. I was hoping to finish the other four, but I'll probably get to it tomorrow instead. I'm trying to average a painted miniature per day for 2015, but 54mm is making that rough! These AiP figures are definitely faster to paint than the ACTA ones though-- just because they have less detail and more flat open areas to block paint.
Lately I've been rethinking going with grand tactical games where a unit is a brigade and thinking I may want to dial it back a bit for 54mm. Larger figures, smaller actions lol I've been reading Henry Hyde's The Wargaming Compendium and his small section on "bathtubbing" really spoke to me. I've had terrible, terrible experiences when I've tried games where battalions are a unit and you need to turn them into squares and whatever. Like 4-6 hour games where maybe half the distance between the two forces is covered but nothing but some artillery fire actually happens and then everything gets packed up. Since I'll be supplying both sides and figuring out the rules, I guess it's time I started looking at a wider variety of rules options.
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My 40mm will be skirmish to begin with (which can be scaled up eventually).
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Nice work on the figures.
We are using Neil Thomas's Napoleonic Rules which, in the basic form, use 8 units a side and it is an abstraction of an army level battle. The 8 units a side provides a very achievable target - though we will eventually move up to 12 or so units in a game.
For English Civil War I am looking at Skirmish initially and then using File Leader which doesn't require too many figures.
Mike
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We (Skirmish Wargame Group) settled on Black Powder after trying various other sets. We just reduce the number of figures in a unit in each of the three size categories so the footprint on the table is about the same as it is for 28mm units, then you do not need to adjust ranges.
The rules are simple enough, but some players have trouble getting their heads round not being omnipotent and not being able to do everything they want to with every unit every game turn! But we love this aspect of the rules and the surprises, opportunities and challenges it presents during a game.
Mike B
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I really like the idea of a "very achievable target." My current plan is to finish the artillery and infantry for the British and then do the same 1 kit of each cavalry, artillery and infantry for the French and then bounce back and forth between them. I'll probably be starting off with some skirmish gaming like Songs of Drums & Shakos.
For non-skirmish games I'm going to start off with 4 figure infantry units and 2 figure cavalry units, which means I'll be doing things very much in a DBA style until I bulk things out in the future. I'll have 7 "units" with my 3 kits per side starter approach and then build from there.
I have sort of a "maybe some time in the future" goal of bulking out the units to double or triple the size, but to start, i think 4 individually based miniatures will work fine for the infantry. If I'm not doing grand tactical and the 4 figures represent a battalion you can do line, column and square formations just fine with four single figure "stands." Some time I'll have to get some officers and colour parties done, but not at the individual unit level until I bulk them up as 4 guys with a flag won't look nearly as good as 12.
I think it's more important to get gaming as early as possible rather than continually putting things off until I have properly large units and armies.
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(http://www.blackhat.co.uk/images/54mm/dragoons.jpg)
Finally finished another unit of 8 Call to Arms French Dragoons. Nice figures to paint and I'm really happy with how they came out.
Shaded the faces but everything else straight painting with a deep gloss finish.
Mike
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Those turned out great. I love the yellow. I've been trying to figure out which Régiment de Dragons to paint mine up as.
The gloss finish is really growing on me. I think after I have enough for a simple Napoleonics game, I'm going to do a more old school late 19th century game with gloss, flat green bases and as few poses as possible among the miniatures. lol Probably 42mm from Irregular and Spencer Smith's Shiny Toy Soldier line.
Your lawn game is going to look fantastic.
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I've already got a 19th century shiny toy soldier collection using my own Little Wars Revisited figures....
(http://www.blackhat.co.uk/images/54mm/lancers.jpg)
(http://www.blackhat.co.uk/images/littlewars/guards.jpg)
(http://www.blackhat.co.uk/images/54mm/LWR300p.jpg)
Mike
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Nice work, even though I just don't get the look (it hasn't grown on me yet - but I'm still young ;)).
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I've already got a 19th century shiny toy soldier collection using my own Little Wars Revisited figures....
Those are just excellent. And in 54mm too. Thank you so much for posting those pictures. I'm definitely going to have to give this some more thought. I'm going to finish off my two 54mm Napeonic forces and get some games in them before I start a traditional toy soldier collection, but I love what I'm seeing.
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(http://mikelewis.info/littlewars/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/old-guard-166x300.jpg)
Test paint of an Airfix 1/32 Old Guard figure from a batch bought on ebay.
These were the very first box of figures I bought when I started wargaming in 1974....
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I think he turned out great. The Airfix stuff definitely holds up better in 1/32 than their 1/72 figures.
That's cool you were able to get your first figures again. Mine would be a couple warriors from RAFM and Ral Partha for D&D in the mid 80s.