Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Interwar => Topic started by: flags_of_war on December 28, 2014, 03:09:34 AM
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Any of you fine gents have a good source for the CTV Uniform colour? I was tempted to keep it simple by using Vallejo English Uniform as i can't get any real good details on the colours other than some i have seen is a greenish brown.
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Hi - I'm certainly no expert in this area but having a large number to paint myself (my 2015 project!) I've been trying to get to the bottom of this to!
The earlier war Italians may have have worn green uniforms ( these go with the "Adrian" helmets if you're using Empress miniatures) with blue berets (I'm trying to attach a picture with this so hope it works). Later Italians may have had a sand coloured uniform if the plate in the Osprey is correct.
That said I know there are some real SCW experts who read this forum and if they can shed any light on this subject I'd be hugely appreciative ;). Not being a Spanish or Italian reader I've found researching this whole area a real challenge! (In this respect my beloved ECW is SO much easier :D)
Hope this helps
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I'm also trying to attach a few more photos which I hope help?
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And again (hopefully!) - IF this is correct ( a big "IF") this seems closer to your Vallejo English Uniform (speaking of which does anyone know what "Welsh uniform" looks like? - I didn't know UKIP were used to name
Vallejo paints lol)
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Found this one in my stored photos as well - hope it helps
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I have a boys big book of the CTV, I shall attempt to add some pics later.
Lets just say its not a simple issue, and the options are very varied indeed :o
If you can narrow the timeline, and theatre a bit for us, then I will try and give you a few valid pointers.
You will however, have fun asembling your force, especially if you like ripping off heads lol
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The short answer is that all the above colours are correct. lol
The Italians had Winter, Summer and Tropical uniforms and detachments turned up in Spain in all three. As the supply chain sorted itself out they were eventually more uniformly equipped as appropriate, but for the early part of 1937 quite a few would be struggling with the cold, or wearing a mix of uniform types, which hopefully included the greatcoat.
As Durutti says, time and place narrows things down... or even unit in some cases, as who they were gives us where they came from. While those details are hard to find, they are out there.
:)
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Jeez i was just painting up the Empress figures. Im not 100% sure what actions they foought in to be honest. The pics i found are the ones that look like it's English Uniform which i might just go with as i have a good triad for that.
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Ok, lets take another route
Who are you pitting them against, and do you intend to use other Nationalist forces with them?
With the uniform issue, it all really boils down to how accurate you want to be.
CTV have particular uniform distinctions, so if you have a formation in mind, I can post up the unit distinctions, early war they are mostly Italian, but later on you get an influx of Spanish troops, and they become a more combined force.
The good thing is, you are no limited to just using the Empress SCW figs, you can combine the Italo-Abyyssinian italians as well, but they would require a head swap. tropical weight uniforms were issued, but not pith helmets.
Not sure if any of the formations were MSVN, there was only one regular unit, that being the Littorio, the others were made up of fascist volunteers, who were not entirely certain where the hell they were going!!!
Early on, uniform issue was patchy, old issue Eurpean theatre uniforms, combined with the lightweight tropical kit, helmets were mostly old stock Adrians, but the later M33 were in issue too, and these grew in number, as more kit was issued.
To add variety, you can use the Perry Italians, and here is a quick review of them
http://nigelh-viewfromtheduckpond.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/1930s-italians-perry-v-empressanglian.html
and scroll down, for a bit of head ripping action lol
http://nigelh-viewfromtheduckpond.blogspot.co.uk/2013_08_01_archive.html
You could also throw the Bolt Action stuff into the mix, as they are also useable, and there are one or two more support options in the range.
Later folks, I should be entertaining guests, but have sneaked off to type this. :o
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Bloody hell! Fascinating stuff!
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Well we have a game next year and it's only going to be a generic game using BA. Nothing specific to a battle and no need to be 100% accurate.
So far ive painted Falange, Carlists and Moroccans so i guess it is a mixed bag army that prob never happened. They will be fighting against most International Brigades and other Red Militias.
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Yep, know what you mean - if it's Bolt Action no need to worry too much about accuracy! lol
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Yep, know what you mean - if it's Bolt Action no need to worry too much about accuracy! lol
Yup lol lol lol tried CooC but the other SCW gamer doesn't like them.
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We went the other way round, tried Bolt Action, did not like them, and switched to CofC.
After typing a ton of crap previously, I realised that I did not actually give you an answer!! :o
Uniform colours
this little article is a good help, as it gives you vallejo paint colours, it is I think based on the 1933 issues, and some of that kit saw use in Spain
http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=110&art_id=413
I will check back for the earlier variants, but IIRC, the kit prior to the 33 reissues was more of a greenish-khaki colour. the Adrian helmets were a blueish grey colour. closest match to the webbing colour would be Vallejo's German Uniform.
As for combined CTV, Moroccan,Falange and Carlists, I will have a look at the Malaga orbats, but there may have been that combo in the Frente Del Nord operations against the Euzkadi Militias, but you would not have Brigadas Internacional on the Republican side.
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Cheers for that mate.
Just found some nice pics here of reenactors in a variety of uniforms.
http://www.xavicalzada.com/?p=2734
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Nice one, added that to the bookmark file.
Spanish re-enactment groups are really helpful, and quite a few of their members are historians too.
These lads are a great bunch, and they have some decent imagery too, not so much CTV, but useful nonetheless.
http://www.frentedemadrid.com/FdM/Imagenes.html
If anybody wants it, I can post some images from the CTV book I have, for unit distinctive, like colllar flashes etc.
Sorry if I got a bit carried away, I'm terribly anal when it comes to the SCW, I do have a decent archive of stuff, that I collected in my Anglian Miniatures days, and I'm always happy to have a delve through it for info, pics etc.
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I guess it has been long enough for re-enactors (I wonder if the argue over who is the good guys lol).
I bet the T-26 cost them an arm and a leg.
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Nice one, added that to the bookmark file.
Spanish re-enactment groups are really helpful, and quite a few of their members are historians too.
These lads are a great bunch, and they have some decent imagery too, not so much CTV, but useful nonetheless.
http://www.frentedemadrid.com/FdM/Imagenes.html
If anybody wants it, I can post some images from the CTV book I have, for unit distinctive, like colllar flashes etc.
Sorry if I got a bit carried away, I'm terribly anal when it comes to the SCW, I do have a decent archive of stuff, that I collected in my Anglian Miniatures days, and I'm always happy to have a delve through it for info, pics etc.
I myself am a lover of collecting pictures especially of flags but i do enjoy good images of Uniforms.
I went for a mixture of English uniform and russian uniform in the hope of getting a greenish khaki. I feel it still be off in regards to what i should be aiming for.
(https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10801671_852463798139036_7009330464155389971_n.jpg?oh=3a933578aab39ab257a39c2d005e9895&oe=553F2986)
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I'm probably going to try and do mine a little "greener" but, heh, they are darn close to some of the pictures and look good enough to me! Go with it! From what we've learnt above there is no single defined colour.
I like your idea for the colour bearer - may copy that one! Also - a great relief to see a painting table cluttered like mine! lol You've made me feel a little less guilty- thank you!
Currently working on 2 Empress 88's as flak pieces for my Condor Legion (and I mean Flak, not A.T!). After that finishing off some Communist militia (complete with one of your flags) then it's time to hit the Italians. After this thread actually now looking forward to it and less fearful! ;)
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Mate that is just one of my work trays. I have another two haha
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(https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10801671_852463798139036_7009330464155389971_n.jpg?oh=3a933578aab39ab257a39c2d005e9895&oe=553F2986)
are those Empress figures?
and are the wearing an Adrain helmet?
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are those Empress figures?
and are the wearing an Adrain helmet?
Yes to both questions mate
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If that's a conversion where are the heads from. Woodbine?
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The Empress CTV wear a mix of Adrians, and berets, the command has a couple of Bustina hats, if you want to convert some Perry figs to have Adrians as well, Empress has a head pack in Adrians, and Forgotten and Glorious have some nice headsets too.
Depending on time period, and theatre, you can also mix in the M33 Helmets, to add a bit of variety, look at the Empress italian packs in the Italo-Abyssinian range, you can rip off a few heads, and replace then with Adrians,M33 or berets.
I really should do a blog post with some pics etc, of the CTV uniform combos, later on they get an influx of Spanish troops, so you can mix in some Spanish army types as well, will also do a bit on how to do headswaps, as its not that difficult really :D
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I know its off topic but did the Nationalists ever have Non Uniformed Militia units? I have a load of Figures that i could use for this but not sure if they would have had such units.
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Yes they did. In the initial days there were odd units of 'voluntarios' knocking around, who were neither Réquetes nor Falangistas. They didn't last very long before being absorbed into the army or either of the above groups, but they did exist.
No idea of any form of organisation, nor any distinguishing 'field signs' though. The few photos that 'might' show them, just show guys in normal clothes alongside troops or falangistas.