Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Conflicts that came in from the Cold => Topic started by: arget8 on January 13, 2015, 02:16:06 PM
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LAFers,
I am looking to determine interest in a miniature range that I am considering having made and trying to determine what are the most desired ranges for modern conflicts (post 1985 for the most part) for a potential kickstarter. At this point, I am thinking that I would like to produce generic Middle East military (i.e. Syria, Iran, Iraq, etc.) and generic insurgents in western clothes and paramilitary garb (i.e. Syria, Ukraine, etc.). Potential future projects are the IDF and other unavailable options such as generic African troops.
I am doing this as I am tired of not having the variety of other scales in 28mm and I think that a project like this will fulfill a lot of gamer wishes, including mine. At this point I am planning on contracting eBob if there is enough interest in this project.
At this time, I am just judging market interest in my proposed projects, so wild suggestions are completely welcome. If you guys have any other suggestions or think that another potential range is needed more than the proposed ones please let me know.
Thanks,
Gunnar
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You will need to look at Empress, Eureka, Gripping Beast and Spectre and decide where there are commercially relevant gaps.
Generally, I think there is an good supply of up to date and high tech forces - US Army, USMC, Delta, Seals, SAS, British Army, Australian Army, Russians and even Chinese. I think Empress also said that they plan Germans at some point. There are also good ranges of Taliban and a few insurgents from Empress and Eureka. Spectre have just launched quite a good range of African militia. Mongrel used to have some Israelis etc but they are hard to find now.
There is a definite need for generic figures to represent soldiers and militias of many Middle East, African and South American nations.
Many could be actually be the same figures with head swaps.
Mick
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That is why I am looking to do the generic soldiers and western civilians. I've been doing a ton of looking as I have recently gotten into the modern scene and I feel that there are gaps when it comes to Middle Eastern militaries and civilians not wearing either a dish dash or shemaghs. I want insurgents that can be used for conflicts all over the world. There are lots of Middle Eastern and African options out there, but I've seen that there is a gap in the market for western style insurgents. The soldiers are also something that I hope can be easily modified to serve for former Soviet nations as well. I know for a fact that the IDF hasn't been done, either.
Gunnar
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You will need to look at Empress, Eureka and Spectre and decide where there are commercially relevant gaps.
There is a definite need for generic figures to represent soldiers and militias many Middle East, African and South American nations.
Many could be actually be the same figures with head swaps.
Mick
What Mick said. Those are all good places to start. And have been looking for decent figs to use in decent western (Europe, N. America..etc) attire to use in a future, imagination or my Shattered Union modern American Civil War project.
Or even American militia types. would think a few types, mostly with LBEs or chest rigs. if they have armor its just chest plate's. mix of shot guns, hunting rifles and standard ARs and Aks. Optional separate heads. Bare head, boonie caps, baseball cap, and cold weather caps.
And troops from say India. I just love the Pakat helmets. And I would be down to get some modern IDF too. Can do double duty for middle east and for my fictional Caribbean country Atlántico!
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Considering militia forces be they African, middle eastern or European, it is quite surprising that nobody still not made them in plastic in style of excellent wargames factory zombie survivors.
For a big forces like militias plastic is the best choice to make a very characterful forces.
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Considering militia forces be they African, middle eastern or European, it is quite surprising that nobody still not made them in plastic in style of excellent wargames factory zombie survivors.
For a big forces like militias plastic is the best choice to make a very characterful forces.
I think the Zombie Survivor sets are a good start if your going the plastic route. I am looking for a bit more uniform myself. Which I guess you are too.
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I have seen the survivors from WGF and while impressive as models, they don't feel like rebel militia/insurgent to me. I am looking to create gritty and realistic looking group of people that you would expect to see in Syria or Ukraine rather than random people wearing shorts and flip flops who just picked up an AK yesterday. I considered picking up the survivors at one point, but I decided against it.
Gunnar
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I have seen the survivors from WGF and while impressive as models, they don't feel like rebel militia/insurgent to me. I am looking to create gritty and realistic looking group of people that you would expect to see in Syria or Ukraine rather than random people wearing shorts and flip flops who just picked up an AK yesterday. I considered picking up the survivors at one point, but I decided against it.
Gunnar
Pretty much my view on them too.
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It seems that my language skills failed me. :)
I mentioned WF survivors as an example of variability of possible combinations of body parts and weapons but not as an example of how militias must look.
Would be nice to see something like that for lets say African militias-armies.
Lots of plastic bodies with different hands, heads and weapons, and some accessories, all of them must be definitely African looking so i can construct more or less unique mob from them.
And same also applies to generic middle eastern and European guys.
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Oh no you are fine, I just posted my response up assuming you might not have see the survivors set. But those are some good ideas too. Hard to pull off but interesting none the same.
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Like the good commissar said, no worries. I think plastic manufacturing might be a little beyond my current state of the business at the moment, but maybe if things work out well I may take a look into plastics in the future. Below is what I am thinking for the potential ranges:
GENERIC ARMY: Total poses = 20
- Firefight (4 unique poses)
- Patrol (4 unique poses)
- Skirmish (4 unique poses)
- Command (4 unique poses)
- Heavy weapons (4 unique poses)
INSURGENTS: Total poses = 32
- Militia firefight (4 unique poses)
- Militia skirmish (4 unique poses)
- Militia heavy (4 unique poses)
- Militia command (4 unique poses)
- Paramilitary firefight (4 unique poses)
- Paramilitary skirmish (4 unique poses)
- Paramilitary heavy (4 unique poses)
- Paramilitary command (4 unique poses)
I'm thinking of adding a support unit to the military to separate the RPG's and RPK's as well. Bringing the total for the army to 24 poses. I'm still doing research as to whether I want to go completely unique poses or have say 10 poses and then change up the arms and have separate heads. At this point, I am definitely leaning towards having separate heads as it will allow for more customization (i.e. helmets, winter/patrol hats, berets, bare heads, and masks)
Let me know what you guys think of the above.
Gunnar
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I am guessing the Gen military will have AK style rifles, body armor and all that jive? Militia will be in civies and paramilitary will be police? Just making sure. Aside from that seems like a good start.
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Army: Ak's, body armor and decent kit, probably original K-pot helmet (style-wise)
Militia: civilian clothes (sneakers, jeans, cobbled together kit and assorted weapons- mostly AK's). Think Syrian/Middle East rebels
Paramilitary: assorted weapons (mostly AK's), most have fatigues and various kit. Think pro-Russian rebels in Ukraine and professional fighters.
I may be able to cut the number of completely unique sculpts for the paramilitary by having them use sculpts from the army range and changing up the arms and heads.
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As I need more for my fictional country I'd love insurgents in western clothes. Some modern female soldiers would be great as well.
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Female soldiers are definitely going to happen when I do the IDF. I may consider doing a stretch goal for female insurgents, though.
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Would be nice to have ethnic heads for this range, beside western. Some Asian, Middle eastern and African heads will be very useful, well at least for me. :)
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Female soldiers are definitely going to happen when I do the IDF. I may consider doing a stretch goal for female insurgents, though.
It was female brits and Americans I was after but they sound good as well.
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Nimrod: I was actually planning on doing separate heads for the insurgents to expand the utility of the militia range.
gimzod: Female Brits and Americans may also be a possibility in the near future if things work out as I have seen a demand for them that Empress or Eureka have yet to satisfy.
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Have a look at the Eureka SAT swappets and also the Hasslefree Modern troopers. Both of these are excellent ideas allowing maximum variation from a few dollies, allowing for separate heads and weapons in the case of Hasslefree and separate poses, heads and weapons in the case of the Eureka SWAT.
If you did a range of figures in standard US style BDUs with the old M1956/ M1967/ ALICE style load bearing equipment, you'd have a substantial portion of the world's forces done from the 1970s. Add old style Kevlar pots, berets, boonie hats and the old US M1 steel pot as head options. Give them weapon options of M16, G-3, FAL and Galil and you now have fantastic variety. In similar vein add M-60, FN MAG and MG-3.
As a second subtype add some torsos or figures with BDU style blouses and chest rig. Same head options, maybe supplemented by a Soviet M40 or M60 steel helmet and add standard Warpac weaponry. AKM, Romanian AKM, RPGs, RPKs etc, etc.
Mix and match between the two main body types with all the different weapons variants and head variants and you'd cover most of what is currently missing.
Hopefully Ebob is quicker at commission work than he is at completing his own lines. Best to stipulate that he need to match existing ranges in terms of figure size too.
Good luck!
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Also good ideas, but lets not get to crazy. :D
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Also good ideas, but lets not get to crazy. :D
Maybe but all I'm suggesting is three or four basic figures with weapons and head choices. And for that you could cover a lot of ground.
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I'd like to see figures for the 1967 and 1973 Arab-Israeli Wars. I'd also like to see figures with G3 rifles and MG3s for Saudi, Iran and Central/South American states.
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FWIW, I like Carlos's idea. There's definitely a lot of mileage in that. :D
So, yeah, do that.
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I agree, if I am going to make these generic, I want them to be able to function for as many nations as possible. That is why they will have separate heads (K-pot, steel-pot, various others). I also plan on having them being sculpted without arms and having different arms sculpted on with different weapons. This will allow the generic bodies, which will look like most nations that wear load bearing vests and body armor with BDU style fatigues, to work for most developed militaries in the world with a simple sculpting of different arms holding whatever weapon. This will massively decrease costs for me by making the most expensive part of the sculpt (body) to be used with several ranges (with AK's, M4, G3, etc.) My planned separate heads will allow me to make them even more variable so I can make a range of Poles with K-pots and AK's or a range of Congolese with berets, M1 steel pots, and Ak's.
Gunnar
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Anything that could make reasonable Vietnamese People's Army would work for me! It sounds like a big task but generic troops would likely prove popular.
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So I did some research on current service weapons and this is what I came up with. I found that AK's, G3's, and M4/M16 variants would provide the most value if I were creating generic troops. I haven't researched helmets for all these nations yet, but since I plan on having them separate, it shouldn't be a constraint. The real issue will be finding the most prolific body armor. If anyone happens to know where I can find info on helmets and body armor in current service easier I would be eternally grateful.
Asterisk (*) means that it is not the only service rifle in use in this country or that I was unable to completely verify without deeper research.
AK47 and Variant Clone Users:
Albania, Algeria, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bangladesh*, Belarus, Cambodia, Czech Republic (being replaced), Egypt, Ethiopia*, Georgia* (Reserves), Hungary, Iran*, Kazakhstan, North Korea, Kyrgyzstan, Laos, Lebanon*, Macedonia, Malta, Moldova, Mongolia, Montenegro, Mozambique, Nigeria*, Pakistan*, Saudi Arabia*, Serbia, Slovakia, Sri Lanka, Sudan*, Syria, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Venezuela*, Vietnam (to be replaced by the Galil ACE), Zimbabwe*
G3 and Variant Users:
Afghanistan*, Albania*, Bangladesh*, Brunei*, Chad*, Chile (HK33)*, Cyprus*, El Salvador, Estonia*, Ethiopia*, Greece (Hellenic Army only), Iran*, Kenya, Lebanon*, Latvia (National Guard), Mexico (scheduled to be replaced by 2018), Myanmar*, Nigeria*, Pakistan*, Peru*, Portugal*, Saudi Arabia*, Sudan*, Sweden (Only Home Guard), Thailand* (HK33), Turkey* (Replaced by 2016), UAE*, Zimbabwe*
FN-FAL and Variant Users:
Argentina*, Bolivia*, Cyprus*, Fiji*, Greece* (Reserve Units), Malta*, Myanmar*, Nigeria*, Peru*, Tunisia* (Border Guards), Venezuela*, Zimbabwe*
Galil and Variant Users:
Bahamas (Special Forces only), Bolivia*, Colombia, Estonia*, Portugal (Paratroops), South Africa, Tonga
M16 and Variant Users:
Afghanistan*, Argentina (Marines), Bahamas, Bangladesh (Special Forces), Bolivia*, Bosnia, Brazil (Marines), Brunei*, Cambodia* (Reserves), Canada (Diemaco C7), China* (Limited use of CQ-A), Egypt*, Fiji*, Greece* (Navy and Special Forces), Iraq*, Jamaica*, South Korea* (Reserves), Lebanon*, Liberia, Mexico* (Marines), Monaco*, Nepal*, Philippines*, Singapore* (Being replaced by SAR-21), Sri Lanka*, Sudan*, Thailand* (being replaced by TAR-21), Tonga*, Turkey* (Being replaced by MKEK MPT)
M4 and Variant Users:
Afghanistan*(Special Forces), Bahamas*, Bangladesh* (Special Forces Officers), Bolivia*, Bahrain, Brazil* (Special Forces), Brunei*, Canada* (Diemaco C8), Chile* (Special Forces), Taiwan*, Czech Republic* (Special Forces), Georgia*, Germany* (Special Forces), Greece* (Special Forces), Hungary* (Special Forces), India* (Special Forces), Indonesia (Special Forces), Italy* (Special Forces), Jamaica*, Japan* (Special Forces), Jordan*, Kenya*, Lebanon*, Malaysia*, Monaco*, Netherlands* (Diemaco C8), Philippines*, Saudi Arabia*, Serbia* (Special Forces), Thailand*, Tonga*, Tunisia* (Special Forces), Turkey* (Special Forces),
Thanks,
Gunnar
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Don't forget LMGs - eg Minimis, FN-Mag, IMI Negev
For helmets, a K-Pot, an Israeli Orlite, a British Mk6 helmet and a French style helmet would cover most African armies I think. Plus berets, bush hats etc.
I don't know how accurate the wiki page is on helmets, but it has a list of modern ones and some users: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_helmet#Current
In Africa, body armour seems a hodge podge from pictures I've looked at. You get British ECBA (eg Kenya, Uganda), French equivalent (eg Burundi) and locally made efforts. Best bet is to Google UN/African Union troops. The US PASGT style seems pretty prevalent outside of Africa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personnel_Armor_System_for_Ground_Troops#Military (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personnel_Armor_System_for_Ground_Troops#Military)).
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I'd like figures that can be used for Falling Skies type games (the humans, not the aliens :D) or any near future post apoc setting. Weapons and uniforms would be contemporary, but very much pieced together.
The Falling Skies militia forces are very diverse in terms of uniforms and weapons, so a mixture of military kit with civilian clothing would be useful. I like the idea of separate arms, but hopefully it will be better than the WGF survivors sets. In theory their arms are interchangable, but in reality the body types and clothing options mean that only a few arms work with each type.
There is definitely a gap in the marker for the sort of figures you're proposing, so I really hope it works out.
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If anyone happens to know where I can find info on helmets and body armor in current service easier I would be eternally grateful.
I have this book so I can recommend it, lots of excellent photo coverage although the US and UK sections do make up 90% of the content. Might not be so much of a problem as the US has been the 'fashion setter' in this area.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Modern-Body-Armour-Martin-Brayley/dp/1847972489/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1421316903&sr=1-1&keywords=modern+body+armour
When I looked for the above I saw the same author has written this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tin-Hats-Composite-Helmets-Collectors/dp/1847970249/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_y
I haven't seen this before but the preview looks good. So I bought one!
Edit.... B&gger, as i went though the 'check out' I saw he also does one on camouflage, so that went in the basket too...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Camouflage-Uniforms-International-Combat-1940-2010/dp/1847971377/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_y
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Body armour is by no means universal, in fact beyond developed nations with sizeable budgets, it's still really not that common. Even some of those armies that do possess it eschew it for reasons of climate and for certain types of operation. If you model troops wearing it, you will tend to limit the time frame of your range.
If you are looking at doing arms with M16s then do look at doing the earlier model M16A1 there are still quite a few M16A1s floating around and again it opens the time frame and thus the utility of your range.
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If you look at Wikipedia you'' find user listings for the most common helmet types. Most K-pot/ Fritz helmet types look reasonably similar, especially under a camouflage helmet cover. The French Spectre helmet is a fairly popular variant.
Brazil still uses local FAL variants but those will be progressively phased out as the new IA2 is introduced. Chile's marines have started sporting FN SCARs.
Another other reasonably popular weapon that nobody currently makes in this scale is the Tavor, which sees a lot of SF use these days (Israelis, Indians, Colombia, etc, etc)
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The Falling Skies militia forces are very diverse in terms of uniforms and weapons, so a mixture of military kit with civilian clothing would be useful. I like the idea of separate arms, but hopefully it will be better than the WGF survivors sets. In theory their arms are interchangable, but in reality the body types and clothing options mean that only a few arms work with each type.
Well, the arms wont be separate, but different weapon combos will be sculpted onto the base figure to minimize cost and maximize versatility.
As to the the lmgs and what not, they will be researched as well, the rifles are just the beginning. Luckily, most seem like they are going to pretty ubiquitous.
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Here are the Light Machine Guns:
FN Minimi/M249 Users:
Afghanistan, Belgium, Brazil* (Special Forces and Marines), Canada* (C9), Chile* (Marines), Denmark* (Jagers), Dominican Republic, Egypt*, Greece, Hungary* (Special Forces), Indonesia, Iraq* (Special Forces), Ireland* (ARW), Italy*, Latvia, Malaysia, Mexico, Morocco, Nepal*, Norway, Pakistan* (Para), Papua New Guinea, Peru* (Marines), Philippines, Poland* (Special Forces), Serbia* (Special Forces), Slovakia* (Special Forces), Slovenia, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan, Thailand, Turkey, UAE, Vietnam* (Marines)
MG4 Users:
Germany, Malaysia* (Special Forces), Portugal, South Africa, Spain
RPK and Variant Users:
Afghanistan*, Albania, Algeria, Bangladesh, Bulgaria, Cambodia, Cameroon, CAR, Chad, Cuba, Djibouti, Egypt, Ethiopia, Ghana, Hungary, Iran, Iraq, Latvia, Libya, Malaysia* (Special Forces), Mali, Malta, Moldova, Mongolia, Morocco, Mozambique, Myanmar, Nepal, Nicaragua, Nigeria, North Korea, Pakistan, Poland, Romania, Sierra Leone, Somalia, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Syria, Tanzania, Uganda, Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Vietnam, Yemen, Zimbabwe
Negev Users:
Azerbaijan, Colombia, Costa Rica, Estonia, Georgia, Paraguay, Thailand*, Vietnam* (Naval Special Forces), Ukraine*
Let me know if I missed any of the extremely prolific ones. MMGs (240's, MAG's, and whatnot) are next.
Gunnar
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Here are the helmets:
Spectra- Similar to PASGT:
Canada, Denmark, France, Morocco, Ukraine
PASGT/K-Pot Type:
Afghanistan, Argentina, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Egypt, Estonia, Georgia, Greece, Honduras, Indonesia, Iraq, Malaysia, Mexico, Moldova, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Taiwan, Romania, Cambodia, Thailand, Saudi Arabia, Serbia, Singapore, South Africa, Sri Lanka, USA (National Guard), Venezuela, Trinidad and Tobago, Ukraine
BK-6:
Croatia, Turkey, Czech Republic, Bulgaria, UAE, Lithuania, Spain, Pakistan, Malaysia, Finland, Kazakhstan, Indonesia, Hungary
OR-201 (Israeli):
Chile, Ecuador, Egypt, Ghana, Honduras, Israel, Lebanon, Peru, Sri Lanka, Venezuela, Romania
Ssh-68:
Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, Syria, Armenia, Belarus, Ukraine, Vietnam, North Korea, Iran
M1 Variants:
Sees prolific use all over the world, notably as UN Peacekeeper equipment
Let me know if I missed any big ones
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And here are the Medium Machine Guns:
M240/FN-MAG:
Argentina, Austria, Bahamas, Bahrain, Barbados, Belgium, Belize, Bolivia, Botswana, Brunei, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cameroon, Canada, Chad, Chile, Colombia, Cuba, Cyprus, Congo, Denmark, Djibouti, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Egypt, Estonia, Gabon, Gambia, Ghana, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, India, Indonesia, Iraq, Ireland, Israel, Jamaica, Jordan, Kuwait, Latvia, Lebanon, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malaysia, Mexico, Monaco, Morocco, Netherlands, Norway, Panama, Rhodesia, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Slovenia, Sweden, Thailand, Turkey, Uruguay, Venezuela, Vietnam
Vektor SS-77:
Kuwait, Romania, Rwanda, South Africa
PKM and Variants:
Afghanistan, Albania, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bangladesh, Belarus, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Cambodia, Chad, Croatia, Cuba, Czech Republic, Egypt, Eritrea, Estonia, Finland, Georgia, Hungary, India, Iran, Iraq, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Laos, Latvia, Lebanon, Libya, Lithuania, Macedonia, Mali, Moldova, Mongolia, Montenegro, Morocco, Mozambique, Nigeria, North Korea, Panama, Poland, Romania, Sudan, Serbia, Sri Lanka, Syria, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Turkey, Uganda, Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Vietnam, Zambia
MG3:
Austria, Bangladesh, Chile, Denmark, Ghana, Greece, Iran, Lithuania, Myanmar, Norway, Portugal, Saudi Arabia, Spain, Sudan, Turkey
M60:
Algeria, Bolivia, Cambodia, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Congo, Denmark, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Fiji, Ghana, Greece, Haiti, Honduras, Indonesia, Jordan, Lebanon, Liberia, Morocco, Netherlands, Nicaragua, Panama, Peru, Philippines, Portugal, South Korea, Senegal, Sudan, Taiwan, Thailand, Tunisia, Turkey, Uganda, Venezuela
Let me know if I missed any big ones.
At this point, I am going to posit that I will likely have AK and maybe G3 troops at the start with and probably PASGT or similar body armor and BDU style fatigues. LMG's will be RPK-type and Minimi/SAW variants. GPMG/MMG's will be M240/FN-MAG and PKM to start with. Separate heads will likely be K-Pot/PASGT style, Ssh-68, Steel-Pot/M1, Beret, Patrol Cap, and Boonie Hat. Not all of the variants will be created from the get go as that would be a massive undertaking, so I will probably make the K-Pot and Ssh-68 with European and Middle Eastern Faces to start, maybe Africans and M1/Steel-Pot as well.
What you you all think?
Gunnar
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Where are you based? Is this going to be a Kickstarter? If the size up well with Empress, Spectre, etc.it sounds very good.
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I am US based.
The hope is to run a Kickstarter and run at least out of the US and the UK. I am working on getting the whole plan worked out at the moment. However, I'm here both to get some sort of indicator on what the community wants most from the modern scene in 28mm. The idea is to have them scale with Empress and Eureka and fill some gaps, particularly with the non-first world nations and more recent examples of Syria, Ukraine, Africa, etc. for both government forces and generic insurgents in western clothes. Both are intended to either be opfor for major nations in hypothetical conflicts or actual conflicts or to be fighting each other. Due to the way I plan on having the minis done for the generic troops as below, they should work for most non-premiere militaries with the new, fancy kit. They will have separate heads that I plan to have several ethnicities for each type of head gear, as appropriate. This will not all happen at once, but that is the long term plan. Here are the ranges as of now:
GENERIC ARMY: 40 unique infantry (All with AK variants at the moment and Body Armor is PASGT as of now)
- Firefight
- Patrol
- Skirmish
- Command
- Heavy weapons (PKM, RPG, RPK)
- Firefight (Body Armor)
- Patrol (Body Armor)
- Skirmish (Body Armor)
- Command (Body Armor)
- Heavy weapons (Body Armor) (PKM, RPG, RPK)
INSURGENTS: 16 infantry poses (mix of weapons: AK’s, G3’s, maybe others)
- Western Militia firefight
- Western Militia skirmish
- Western Militia heavy (PKM, RPG, RPK)
- Western Militia command
As you may see when you compare it to the old list, I have removed the paramilitaries. This is because I decided that I would just make government troops with and without body armor and then just have the separate heads and or paint job distinguish who was who as the paramilitary were just going to be insurgent heads with army kit anyway. The insurgent range seems small, but the plan is to have separate heads to give variation and likely new packs with different weapons later. What do you guys think? How about the load bearing equipment? Should I go with old US, Soviet, or some sort of generic one?
Thanks,
Gunnar
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Your list looks very good.
That gives you 14 packs, which puts you on a par with Spectre.
If you have head options, then you can do several armies with that list.
For games like force on force, you often need 8 to 12 western forces against 30 to 40 opposition.
You could do very well commercially.
Please look at the figures on the market - Empress appear to have the right balance of proportions.
They look realistic but have good sized heads, feet hands and weapons, so are strong and easy to paint.
You do not need as much detail as Empress - unless you are a fantastic painter, it is not seen.
Also you are doing opposing forces - they tend not to get the same painting attention as the western forces facing them.
I have 48 Spectre figures on my painting table. Their exact scale weapons are very delicate as they are very thin.
I have supported many of mine with wire cut from pins (the kind that come with a shirt).
Even if you adopt true scale for length and height, make the guns wide enough to be strong.
Regards
Mick
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I suggest that you prioritise as follows
1. Generic Army (without armour)
2. Western militia
3. Army with body armour.
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That's the plan as of now. I'm thinking I'm going to go with the Chi-Com chest rig as well as it seems pretty prolific in both the Middle East and Africa and likely Asia too. This is what I have planned for the chest rig:
http://pixgood.com/syrian-government-soldiers.html (http://pixgood.com/syrian-government-soldiers.html) Take a look at image 5 and 16
And this for the armor:
http://pixgood.com/syrian-government-soldiers.html (http://pixgood.com/syrian-government-soldiers.html) Take a look at image 18
Gunnar
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Not bad of course my main interests are with the western style militia.
Here is another helmet to look into http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Combat_Helmet
Apparently only a few nations (US army, New Zealand, Ukraine, Denmark) use them but I can see them being more evenly distributed as time goes on.
I also think the the photos should work for generic near east and central Asian forces.
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The more the merrier - hopefully they will fit in with my own Apocalypse Isle minis.
8)
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The more the merrier - hopefully they will fit in with my own Apocalypse Isle minis.
8)
Which is a very nice set indeed. :D
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I was just looking at Akula's latest and thinking they needed a mention on this thread. Like minds, eh? ;)
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Oh and here is an idea for later, North Korean and ROK Forces.
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Very nice list so far. :)
If there is African heads for these models then i'm definitely buy some figures:)
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Any idea how long before this Kickstarter would get of the ground?
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I am guessing they would have to collect their thoughts and figure out how they want to start first and find a sculpture and work around them.
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Exactly,
At the moment I'm looking for a either 3D or traditional sculptor that would work for this project and produce minis that I think can compare to Empress's moderns in both scale and quality. If anyone knows Tony Boustead or a way to contact him, I would appreciate it as he does Empress's modern range and would be perfect. I have also sent Paul Hicks a message along with several others. I'm trying to figure out who would be best suited for the project as well as available and reasonably economical so I wont have to kick start 30,000 dollars or something crazy. If anyone has any opinions or suggestions I would appreciate it.
Gunnar Lopez
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At the moment I'm looking for a either 3D or traditional sculptor that would work for this project and produce minis that I think can compare to Empress's moderns in both scale and quality. If anyone knows Tony Boustead or a way to contact him, I would appreciate it as he does Empress's modern range and would be perfect. I have also sent Paul Hicks a message along with several others. I'm trying to figure out who would be best suited for the project as well as available and reasonably economical so I wont have to kick start 30,000 dollars or something crazy. If anyone has any opinions or suggestions I would appreciate it.
Tony Boustead is now pretty much devoted to the ever-expanding Empress moderns - trust me I've asked ;)
As you've asked for opinions, here is my nickel-worth:
"Available" is an interesting term - most decent sculptors won't block out time in their schedule for a Kickstarter that may (or may not) fund when there is plenty of work around, especially if they havent had any dealings with you previously.
You could always look to fund this yourself, start small, get some dollies made, and then build up the range gradually - you really don't need $10,000's to do it.
Have you worked out the following yet:
-What you are prepared to pay per green?
-Will you be using concept sketches (any cost for these)?
-What will go in each mould?
-How many moulds would you need made? Master Moulds AND Production Moulds
-Cost per mould?
-Approx cost per spin?
-What would be your break even price?
-How many castings would you need to sell at this price to not lose money?
Using dollies would reduce the eventual cost per finished figure, but adds another layer of mouldmaking costs, AND adds time to the whole process.
If you go down the Kickstarter route you also need to factor in:
-Postage
-Packaging
-Kickstarter fees
If you've got answers to all of the above, you can work out pricing for the production castings.
How does this price compare to other similar figures which are already available (often made by the same sculptor)?
Then, and only then is it worth contacting two or three sculptors (no guarantee that your chosen sculptor will be available if and when your KS funds - most sculptors will want an outline brief, and an idea of number of greens before giving you a quote for the commission, so if you haven't done your sums before you contact them you will look daft.
I'm really not trying to put you off, but I've seen a lot of people start with an idea, and end up disappointing a lot of punters and or put themselves in severe financial difficulty.
If it helps, I've created 3 different "ranges" totalling more than 100 individual poses with minimal startup funding - not a Kickstarter in sight, and no financial risk to those that have supported the projects so far.
:)
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Thank you AKULA, it's nice to get opinions from people who have actually done it.
I figured, Tony wouldn't be able to do it, but I figured I would ask about it.
At this point, I'm just trying to judge which sculptors will be interested in the project and what they would charge for the commission based off what I am looking for.
I am in the brainstorming/planning phase here. As such, I have no solid plans for the actual implementation of any plans. I'm just trying to figure out the costs of each thing that you have on your list.
-Cost of greens: No more than 150 GBP at a very max, but I think that they will be relatively simple sculpts, so that shouldn't be an issue as I have been hearing around 120 GBP anyway. The plan is to commission test sculpts before any possible kickstarter, but that is in the future anyway.
-At the moment, no concept sketches, pictures should hopefully be enough.
-I've been told that about 16 figures will go into most industrial molds, but that is something I haven't fully researched yet.
-Cost per mold is up in the air as it depends on who I go with, but I've been told around 60-100 GBP.
-Around 1 GBP per mini to cast is what I've heard, but like I said, I haven't done a ton of researching yet.
As you can see, the plan is still in the infancy stage, but I wanted to figure out what the market wants and needs and then base my project on that. I have a long way to go on this project, but I'm excited about the possibilities.
Gunnar
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-Cost of greens: No more than 150 GBP at a very max, but I think that they will be relatively simple sculpts, so that shouldn't be an issue as I have been hearing around 120 GBP anyway.
Generally speaking you get what you pay for.... a lot of the well-known sculptors will be in the range of 150-200 GBP but dependent upon number of greens, and detail.
Your figures per mould/spin etc are a pretty good ball park figure to work upon - well worth considering getting some dollies and weapons made and cast up first - may seem like an unnecessary additional time/cost hurdle but given the number of figures you are talking about, it would save you money in the long run, and bring the overall cost per figure down towards the 120 GBP figure you want.
:)
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That is also why I'm considering 3D sculpts, they have the potential to be cheaper for what I am looking to do.
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Not withstanding its assistance to arget8's project, this is a great help to all those who've considered starting their own range and just assume it's easy, cheap and that sculptors are just sat twiddling their thumbs waiting for your proposal.
;)
Nice going guys. :)
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That is also why I'm considering 3D sculpts, they have the potential to be cheaper for what I am looking to do.
Of course you can go to someone who is a 3D wiz, but I'd advise caution - if they don't have a background in more traditional sculpting they may not have the same feel for what a mouldmaker can turn into a castable miniature, eg "realistic" weapons with barrels that are too brittle.
Some putty-pushers are now playing around with zbrush or similar (thinking of the likes of Ian Mountain, Kev White, whereas Andrew Rae has transitioned entirely to 3D) ...they may be more expensive, but you get what you pay for (in this case, years of experience of delivering physical end product not just renders).... What looks well-defined on a computer screen doesn't always translate into the final product (thinking of a lot of KS that funded using renders, with an end-product that was soft-detailed, eg Wargames Factory zombies).
If you go down the 3D route its well worth getting hold of some physical end product that the sculptor has been commissioned for, rather than just viewing renders.
Best of luck either way.
:)
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And don't forget the G36 for generic military. Seems lots of military and paramilitary forces are using them. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_G36
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A few years ago, I reached out to a sculptor and got some prices regarding my own line of figures.
My problem was the conversion rate. Being on the wrong side of the pond and having to convert $ to £ was a killer for me.
The initial start up just scared me. I was quoted £150 per sculpt but would have been paying over $250. I also believe in the "Go big or go home" approach. I planned a complete range from the start (40-60 figures) It was too much for me. Kickstarter wasn't yet available to Canadians.
Anyways, I wish you luck. Its a brave foray into a tough field. I'd really recommend having some of the figures already sculpted prior to launching a KS. A well known sculptor is good but an unknown company saying trust me with your hard earned cash prior to producing results is not.
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That is pretty much what I have gathered from other people as well. If this comes to fruition, I will be having 3D sculpts made and physical sculpts printed and cast up as examples of the product as I agree that I wouldn't feel super confident with backing a kickstarter with no proof of the quality I would receive.
The G36 is another that I would eventually like to incorporate, which is why 3D sculpting could be even more useful, as the sculptor wouldn't have to do more than pop the weapon on the sculpt and change the pose to fit it, rather than sculpting the arms from scratch on an armless mini, which can get pretty pricey.
At the moment, I've been in talks with people who have experience with 3D sculpting, manufacturers and other industry innovators to get an idea of what kind of budget and timeline I would be looking at so I can start doing some serious planning.
If anyone would like an idea of the quality and style of sculpts I'm looking to have, check out the Skirmish Sangin blog: http://skirmishsangin.blogspot.com/
I am in no way affiliated with Radio Dish Dash, but they are producing exactly (style and quality-wise) what I would like to produce with their Mogadishu Rangers range. I have held on of their sculpts in my hands and it was fantastic, so that is what I want to do.
Gunnar
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I think Specter mins also used 3D sculpts. And aside from the guns needing a bit of thicking turned out pretty nice.