-
Does anyone know when and what the next releases for this range will be?
Staring at the rather large (and getting larger) pile of lead I have of these, I am hoping that it will be (a) soon and (b) command figures.
I think that more command types is the main missing part at the moment - yes, I know there is no cavalry, but I would like to make up 'complete' units of infantry first. We have loads of kilted highlanders to choose from (possibly too many!) but no kilted officers. Likewise there are no nco's at all and the Afghan regulars are completely leaderless (no jokes here please... lol ).
Hoping Mike will be along soon to spill the beans.... :)
Please don't take this as a criticism, I love these figures and just want to see more...
Cheers,
Tim
-
I don't know what's next, but I'm looking forwards to more command packs too. :)
-
I have been wondering the exact same thing for months now. I like to purchase complete units all at once rather than in dribs and drabs or even large portions thereof, so I'm a bit frustrated with the continuing lack of Highlaner command and now the lack of Punjabi command as well. I need to get full units of both completed for a convention game early this coming November and I'm starting to worry that may be impossible and I'll just have to use fill-in units of less historically accurate Indian and Highland troops already in my collection, which would be a bummer. I was very happy to see accurate figures to represent the 92nd Highlanders during the Second Afghan War when Artizan released them months ago, but it's difficult to raise a battalion of Highlanders without any Highland officers or NCOs, not to mention pipers. Of course there's no other game in town for either accurately equipped Highlanders or accurately turbaned Punjabis in 28mm for the Second Afghan War, at least that I know of, so I'll just keep hoping those command packs are relased sooner rather than later.
-
^ That's what I like to do, too. Back in December, I ordered enough Perry to make the KRRC in one go, and I want to do the same with Artizan.
Keeping my fingers crossed, I want to do Artizan Highlanders too. :)
-
Pretty sure i've seen the officers painted up as highlanders, didn't they go for tartan trews?
-
Pretty sure i've seen the officers painted up as highlanders, didn't they go for tartan trews?
That's a thought. I need more reference, I guess. :)
-
The 72nd Seaforths highlanders wore trews during the second Afghan war. The other Highland regiment involved in the conflict were the Gordon's and they wore kilts.
Officers of the Seaforths also wore tartan puttees. I don't fancy painting those in 28mm! :o
-
The 72nd Seaforths highlanders wore trews during the second Afghan war. The other Highland regiment involved in the conflict were the Gordon's and they wore kilts.
Officers of the Seaforths also wore tartan puttees. I don't fancy painting those in 28mm! :o
Thank you and *Yikes*! :o
In my scale, I only need one officer for the Seaforth's....I *think* I can manage *1* w/ tartan puttees.
-
Have faith, I'm guessing that things have just been delayed by the Frostgrave project..... one hopes anyway :)
Darrell.
-
I hope it is just Frostgrave that is causing the delay.
The thing is, I like elements, so for me, it isn't just a case of painting 22 figures instead of 24 and then painting up a nco and a drummer when they come out, I'd have 5 finished bases and 1 unfinished base.
As an aside, those flashes on the British figures, does anyone know what regiments had what flashes?
-
I hope it is just Frostgrave that is causing the delay.
The thing is, I like elements, so for me, it isn't just a case of painting 22 figures instead of 24 and then painting up a nco and a drummer when they come out, I'd have 5 finished bases and 1 unfinished base.
As an aside, those flashes on the British figures, does anyone know what regiments had what flashes?
When I was the forthcoming future Perry Plastic three ups for the NWF at Salute I made up my mind to use the Artizan stuff in skirmish games and the Perry stuff in regimental games.
Still, I do not deny that it would be great to see the various NCO's for the Artizan range as they would add a lot of character to the battlefield.
Darrell.
-
Tim,
As far as I know as a rule British regiments didn't wear helmet flashes during the Second Afghan War. I'm not a historian, just an "enthusiast" of the Second Afghan War who's done a fair amount of research over the decades, but the only period photo I've ever come across showing a foreign service helmet bearing a regimental flash during the conflict was on the helmet of a British officer of the 28th Punjab Native Infantry and jus shows the number "28" on a solid dark background. I've always assumed the background was either dark green, since that was the color of the regiment's facings, or red if it was cut from a Service Dress type tunic.
I believe at least some British infantry units wore helmet flashes during the 1897 Pathan Revolt, and many British infantry regiments involved in the 1898 Sudan campaign certainly wore them. I've seen at least one photo of men of the Lincolnshire Regt. with white flashes on their helmet covers and a color plate of a Cameron Highlander from the same campaign wearing one. I believe helmet flashes were universal in the British Army at the start of the South African or Second Boer War, but maybe it was already the case at Omdurman. Often but not always they were cut from shoulder straps of service dress tunics with the Regimental title embroidered in white, while Highland regiments usually used a piece of their respective tartans. Rifles, Artillery & Engineers each had their own flashes -- green for Rifles, red and blue for Artillery, yellow for Royal Engineers, maroon for the Medical Service. A few infantry regiments did have peculiar different flashes in place of white titles on red backgrounds.
None of this is to imply that I think there's anything wrong with painting the flashes sculpted on the Artizan figures for the 1878-1880 Afghan War if someone desires to do so, which wouldn't bother me.
-
I put a helmet flash on my Leicestershire infantry, whether accurate or not, just because I liked it. ;) And it added a bit of colour to an otherwise Khaki uniform.
Although helmet flashes are probably fairly unlikely for the 2nd Afghan war it won't hurt to represent them. :D
-
They're a mistake by the sculptor. Too early by just shy of twenty years for them. I'd file 'em off.
But that's just me.
-
I hope it is just Frostgrave that is causing the delay.
Spoke to Nick about this today. Frostgrave has nothing to do with it, Mike's sculpts for Frostgrave were done ages ago. The reason for the lack of releases recently is because Mike hasn't given Nick any.
That said, he did get some a couple of days ago which are currently in the hands of the post office being delivered to the mould maker. Some command figures and....... NCO's! He wasn't sure which units they were for from memory but he said they were very nice :D
-
Sweet! Thanx for the good news! :)
-
That said, he did get some a couple of days ago which are currently in the hands of the post office being delivered to the mould maker. Some command figures and....... NCO's! He wasn't sure which units they were for from memory but he said they were very nice :D
Hurrah! :) :)
Darrell.
-
Brilliant news! Although I suspect my credit card will be happy... :)
Thanks Mad Guru. I guess that because they are there I will be tempted to paint them (although I will probably not put a number on them).
Knowing my luck, if I try to carve them off, it will just be a mess....
Tim
-
You're very welcome, Bindonblood, and I wish you luck with designs for your own helmet flashes.
Needless to say Plynkes was far more succinct than me. Truth is I'm in his camp and will simply file and/or sandpaper the flashes off -- except for officers for my 28th PNI.
Dewbabukl: thanks for the update! Excellent news re: more Artizan officer & NCO sculpts. I'll keep my fingers crossed they've got kilts on so I can finally get some properly equipped 92nd Highlanders into my Kabul Field Force for the Battle of Charasiab...
-
https://mobile.twitter.com/nicknorthstar/status/605731204839571456
-
:D
Pictures or they don't exist.
-
North Star via Facebook:
"News from the North West Frontier.
Mike has delivered for Artizan Design the:
British NCOs
Punjabi Officers
Afghan Army Command."
Hurrah!! 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Darrell.
-
Sweeeet!
-
Sweeeet!
Indeed.... I'll be keeping one eye on the NS site until I see the pics as I really need these NCO's!!
Darrell.
-
Pics up on the Northstar site. British NCOs, Punjab officers and Afghan regular officers. :D
No kilted highlander officers yet.. :'(
-
Nice additions,sure to be popular :)
-
(http://www.artizandesigns.com/images/img2016.jpg)
(http://www.artizandesigns.com/images/img2015.jpg)
(http://www.artizandesigns.com/images/img2014.jpg)
http://www.artizandesigns.com/list.php?man=23&page=1 (http://www.artizandesigns.com/list.php?man=23&page=1)
-
They look lurvely! Especially those Punjabis.....
I feel a purchase coming on...
After those Highland officers and ncos (a combined pack would be best) some British infantry without puttees would be nice.
I know, I want everything and I want it now..... ;)
-
Beautiful figures but... Artizan's release pattern is pure frustration, 27 packs of British and you still can't complete a unit. Some Sikhs advancing others rather unhelpfully kneeing and no command figures hardly makes a cohesive unit. Same with the the "British" figures, no musicians or ensigns and some figures with bayonets fixed and some without( bug bear of mind, sorry). Yeah, I know that more packs are to be released but the March or Die range has has 35 packs of French and no Algerian Tirralleur command versus three packs of Moroccans.
Anyway, beautiful figures that I just wish had a more cohesive plan behind them similar to what Iron Duke did.
-
Ahhh... fantail, you took the words right out of my mouth... or mind... or fingertips... well, you get the idea!
These are great looking figures, especially the Punjabi officers, but the Highland infantry were released back in... December 2014, I think, and sadly, despite it being the middle of June, I still can't order figures to complete a full unit of them. I don't really understand releasing a handful of figures from a wide array of troop types rather than all the figures from one or two troop types at a time.
Still, they are nice figures and fill a gap what's available, so I just hope they keep the figures coming and hopefully by the end of this year we will have officers and NCOs for all the troop types we've seen so far, with Gurkha infantry, officers and NCOs to follow at some point and Indian cavalry, British cavalry, and Afghan regular and tribal cavalry later on, and perhaps a heliograph team and pair of "High Command Character" packs for the British and Afghans as well. I'm not pushing my luck asking for an elephant battery... but if Mike Owen sculpts one and Artizan releases it I'll be happy to buy a battery's worth!
-
I agree it is a little frustrating but I love that I can now have some Afghan regulars :)
-
Ahhh... fantail, you took the words right out of my mouth... or mind... or fingertips... well, you get the idea!
These are great looking figures, especially the Punjabi officers, but the Highland infantry were released back in... December 2014, I think, and sadly, despite it being the middle of June, I still can't order figures to complete a full unit of them. I don't really understand releasing a handful of figures from a wide array of troop types rather than all the figures from one or two troop types at a time.
Still, they are nice figures and fill a gap what's available, so I just hope they keep the figures coming and hopefully by the end of this year we will have officers and NCOs for all the troop types we've seen so far, with Gurkha infantry, officers and NCOs to follow at some point and Indian cavalry, British cavalry, and Afghan regular and tribal cavalry later on, and perhaps a heliograph team and pair of "High Command Character" packs for the British and Afghans as well. I'm not pushing my luck asking for an elephant battery... but if Mike Owen sculpts one and Artizan releases it I'll be happy to buy a battery's worth!
I've got to add..... whilst the sculpts are delightful, there is room for some drummers and pipers too hopefully in the future..... we do ask for a lot!! (the irony being that I don't think there has ever been a time where there has been so much choice.
I do think that NS are missing a trick in not taking into mind the above suggestions as the Perry NWF range will not be far behind (I'm guessing NTW!!) and The Twins (TM) will produce packs at a rate of knots!! I'm hoping to use the Artizan stuff for skirmishing and the Perry Stuff for larger engagements.
Darrell.
-
Sikh command coming soon, along with a highland command pack :
(http://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/p235x350/11781868_1086827474679487_5245461481797889854_n.jpg?oh=2bba03815fac2acbcf4f61d777f2fd8d&oe=5616A11D)
-
Looking forward to seeing those highlanders. :D
-
NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S? NCO'S?
Any more NCO's forthcoming? :)
Darrell.
-
NCO's : nope
Sikh officers : check
(http://www.artizandesigns.com/images/img2025.jpg)
-
They are very nice and characterful sculpts but.......
NCO's : nope
Sikh officers : check
(http://www.artizandesigns.com/images/img2025.jpg)
Doh! :'(
The NCO's are the first 'character' type packs that should have been done IMHO.
It sort of stalls the project without them- I know there's one set for the Brits but now't for anyone else...... it's a good job I chose to use the Artizan mini's as Skirmish and the up and coming Perry Plastics for regimental actions etc! :)
Darrell.
-
Got the Punjabi NCOs in the Mould right now, Sikh NCO will be coming next.
-
I like the sound of those Punjabi and Sikh NCO's.
The Sikh officers look great too. :D
Could do with some Highlanders loading etc. like the first couple of British 'standing' packs.. Because I haven't obviously got enough men in kilts already. ::)
-
Nick, that's good news about the Punjabi NCOs being so close to available. Sorry to be a nag but any idea when the Highland officer and/or NCO sets (I imagine there will be a piper included with one or the other) will be arriving...?
-
That is definitely very good news. 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Darrell.
-
Oh yeah, the Scots Command will be available Monday as well, I've just not got photos yet. (yes, includes Piper)
-
Oh yeah, the Scots Command will be available Monday as well, I've just not got photos yet. (yes, includes Piper)
Brill 8) 8) 8)
Darrell.
-
So, the Scots command is a one per unit pack, rather than just officers.
But, are they kilts or trousers?
Tim
-
Kilts.
Two officers, one piper, one drummer.
Lovely sculpts. :D
-
Kilts.
Two officers, one piper, one drummer.
Lovely sculpts. :D
Oi! You've peeped!! :) :D
Tomorrow will reveal all (I hope!). Get yer cards ready lads and lasses! :)
Darrell.
-
Thanks Ray. That sorts out one unit of Highlanders, I guess the others will have to wait.....
-
Bindonblood,
I'm a huge admirer of your work! I would humbly say you don't necessarily need to wait for your other unit of Highlanders, as the officers of the 72nd are known to have worn PUTTEES with their trews (made from matching tartan pattern material, which makes for a pretty cool & unusual looking detail), so you can easily use the already available British line infantry officers as HIghland officers of the 72nd, while the pipers of the 72nd actually wore KILTS, so once the kilted command pack is available, there's your piper for the 72nd as well. It's true, drummers for the 72nd probably wore trews, and mine does (I used the Perry Sudan British infantry in Indian service dress for the entire unit). Of course do whatever you wish, just wanted you to have a bit more info!
-
I'm going to wait until I can see the pics on the NS site so I know exactly what I'm ordering. Not that i have any doubt that they will be good sculpts- I just always like to see what I'm ordering, helps with planning units and the like.
Darrell.
-
Me too, Darrell -- I won't be ordering my full battalion of kilted 92nd Highlanders until I see the pic of the Command pack with its officers & musicians... hopefully in the very near future on the Artizan website.
-
Me too, Darrell -- I won't be ordering my full battalion of kilted 92nd Highlanders until I see the pic of the Command pack with its officers & musicians... hopefully in the very near future on the Artizan website.
I don't think it will be long now- I hope! :)
Darrell.
-
Thank you Mad Guru. But, I am sure you have me mixed up with someone else.
It is not so much the trousered Highland officer, it is more the other types. Nco, standard bearer etc.
I already have the other ranks (not painted though), so for me it is just a matter of ordering the command...
Tim
-
A pack of British command and the Punjabi NCO's have gone up on the Northstar site. ;) :D
-
A pack of British command and the Punjabi NCO's have gone up on the Northstar site. ;) :D
And now the impatient wait for pictures :)
-
And now the impatient wait for pictures :)
I'm sure that Nick is just waiting for the pics from the photographer and that they'll be up soon.
Darrell.
-
I'm sure that Nick is just waiting for the pics from the photographer and that they'll be up soon.
Darrell.
Yeah I know, I'm sure it won't be long.
-
All the new pictures are up.
They are also in the latest newsletter if you want to have a look:
http://downloads.northstarfigures.com/newsletter/newsletter072.htm
-
Pics of the 3 new Command packs are up -- British & Highland "Command Groups," and Punjabi NCOs...
(http://www.artizandesigns.com/images/img2028.jpg)
(http://www.artizandesigns.com/images/img2026.jpg)
(http://www.artizandesigns.com/images/img2027.jpg)
Not sure why the kilted Highland officers are wearing greatcoats en banderole across their shoulders when none of the several packs of kilted Highland troops are, but that's not a deal-breaker for me. I'll finally place my order tonight after work.
EDIT: Whoops -- Nick beat me to it!
-
Pics of the 3 new Command packs are up -- British & Highland "Command Groups," and Punjabi NCOs...
(http://www.artizandesigns.com/images/img2028.jpg)
(http://www.artizandesigns.com/images/img2026.jpg)
(http://www.artizandesigns.com/images/img2027.jpg)
Well, worth the wait that's for sure 8) 8) 8)
:-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
Darrell.
-
Well, worth the wait that's for sure
Agreed, I see an order happening over the weekend.
-
That officer top left reminds me of a certain Capt Flasheart of Blackadder fame.
-
So its been nearly 2 months.Anymore in the pipeline? I finally broke down and went on a buying spree after the last releases but my Guides are still leaderless lol
Pete
-
So its been nearly 2 months.Anymore in the pipeline? I finally broke down and went on a buying spree after the last releases but my Guides are still leaderless lol
Pete
hello...but Guides were a mix of Punjabis and Sikh type turbans..those punjabies seem OK compared to WF ones which, in fact, where only Sikh heads (beard, large turban( with a Kullah added...if you're thinking at a slightly different headress..that's to say this unique long shaped type turban..a little bit different by those ones of the figures ...an which is , in some contemporary picts, associated with guides..untill today was only present on Willye 30mm figures....but , in that case, i'll be an extremely purist approach for that scale
-
Peachy, Daniel and Billy Fish are coming soon.
-
(http://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/12219524_1145308895498011_4151094916057537057_n.jpg?oh=a275d283d63aec301546e4d4e0a60e63&oe=56AEAE5D)
-
I did have an email conversation with North Star Nick a couple of weeks ago.
I believe that Mark is having a break from this until after Christmas. I am hoping that is just after Christmas and not sometime next year.
Nick implied that the Ghurkas were ready (although that may be me misinterpreting how he phrased it).
I am hoping that Mark will read this and comment on his plans. I am really hoping that cavalry, artillery and those outstanding command packs (plus British regulars in trousers) will turn up soon - including the missing Afghan regular command in turbans.
Also some generals would be fabulous, but what would be marvellous would be a 'Last Eleven' set for the 66th....
-
Can't comment on upcoming figures, other than a quick pic I saw of Billy Fish, I know nothing. The sculptor is Mike Owen.
-
Yep, so it is. This is what comes from rushing..... :'(
-
So I can use two of the Punjabi officers to lead the Guides? That works out good then, my lone Punjabi unit currently has 4 officers, little too many for a 24 man unit.
Can you mix all the Punjabi and Guide figures to have more pose variation then? Most of the kit looks the same except for a shoulder bag and the tunic is slightly different.
I'm not really that picky as these aren't getting used for strictly historicals anyway.I just don't want it to look too goofy.
Thanks all
Pete
-
Pete,
As far as I know the various different ethnic/religious contingents within the Guides were grouped in their own separate companies, so if you are playing a game at the skirmish level, all the Guides involved would probably be from the same background, and therefore wearing the same style of turban and have the same sort of facial hair. But if you're not obsessed with historical accuracy and want to mix different types yourself, I say go for it. Over their long and storied history, small numbers of Guides from mixed backgrounds may well have fought together on at least a few occasions.
The Guides ranks included Pathans, Punjabi Muslims, Sikhs, and Dogras, even some Gurkhas. Here's a pic showing some Guides Infantry of various backgrounds in 1879 Kabul -- note the various different styles of turban and facial hair:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c2/Guides_Infantry,_Afghanistan_c._1880.jpg)
-
Pete,
As far as I know the various different ethnic/religious contingents within the Guides were grouped in their own separate companies, so if you are playing a game at the skirmish level, all the Guides involved would probably be from the same background, and therefore wearing the same style of turban and have the same sort of facial hair. But if you're not obsessed with historical accuracy and want to mix different types yourself, I say go for it. Over their long and storied history, small numbers of Guides from mixed backgrounds may well have fought together on at least a few occasions.
The Guides ranks included Pathans, Punjabi Muslims, Sikhs, and Dogras, even some Gurkhas. Here's a pic showing some Guides Infantry of various backgrounds in 1879 Kabul -- note the various different styles of turban and facial hair:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c2/Guides_Infantry,_Afghanistan_c._1880.jpg)
Thanks for pointing that out MG... something I hadn't actually considered o_o :)
Darrell.
-
Pete,
As far as I know the various different ethnic/religious contingents within the Guides were grouped in their own separate companies, so if you are playing a game at the skirmish level, all the Guides involved would probably be from the same background, and therefore wearing the same style of turban and have the same sort of facial hair.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c2/Guides_Infantry,_Afghanistan_c._1880.jpg)
Mad Guru....maybe i'm wrong...but from what i perceive and feel...and also see in quite a few pict, from all periods, concerning this fascinatng but not easy to frame Indian Army tarditions and costumes...i developped the idea that, probably, a Sikh officer or NCO would be preferred to lead also men of other relions (religions..not casts)...and a martial attitude or leadership istinct would have been much easy t find in a Sikh that , for example, in a Dogras...OLd Sikh Sergeants appear frequently in picts...personally..i would go with a long bearded Sikh company havildar major (with beard dry brushed in white) leading even Muslim moustached sepoys..
-
Thanks again guys!
Really appreciate the detailed answers.
Pete
-
Pier Paolo... well, sorry to say this my friend, but I do believe you are wrong.
A very large number of Jats, Dogras, and Punjabi Muslims served in the ranks of the Bengal Army, and later, when recruiting class companies was opened to the Madras and Bombay Armies in the 1890s, in their regiments as well. It's true, the "Martial Spirit" of the Sikhs earned a special place in the annals of Imperial British history, as did that of the Gurkhas, and the fierce reputations of both groups were certainly well-deserved, but the aforementioned Dogras, Jats, Punjabi Muslims, and even Pathans (whose sympathies were sometimes seen as questionable when confronting their cousins on or above the Afghan border) all acquitted themselves well in battle over their years of service under British command. Along with Sikhs and Gurkhas these other groups from the Punjab were the preferred recruits for British service following the Mutinty, but prior to the Mutiny, the British considered the high-class Hindustani, or "Purbia," class to be the most favored martial caste/race in India. It was only after the Mutiny that British opinion changed, I would say driven largely by understandable political dynamics.
Specifically re: Sikh NCOs or officers leading non-Sikh troops, here's a quote from Terence Heathcote's "The Indian Army":
The class-company system, although it had the advantage of giving men of different religions or communities the opportunity of competing with each other in efficiency and thus, through their rivalry, keeping up the standards of the whole unit, had one major disadvantage. Men of one community could not be placed in command of those belonging to another. Thus whereas, in a single-class regiment, promotion could be according to a single seniority list, and soldiers or NCOs could be interposted from one company to another, in a class-company regiment this could not be done and separate rolls had to be kept for each of the communities concerned. If the Indian officers of one company became casualties, there was no way of replacing them by experienced officers from within the regiment.
*NOTE: boldface emphasis above is my own!
Again, I have no problem with anyone who wants to use Indian troops of different ethnic/religious types in a single unit in their own games, as it is entirely their business! I just won't be doing it myself... unless it's a game played at the multiple company level or above.
Take care and good gaming -- and let's hope we can buy those Peachy, Daniel, and Billy Fish Artizan figures very soon indeed!
-
Mad Guru..very appreciated answer and explication..and Heathcote source..the name of the author is a synomimous of historic reliability from what i remenber..being myself a purist..at leat for colonial games.. i'll follow your advice that, unfortunatly, will leave unemployed (as an alternative i can behead them ) my nice surplus Sikh NCOs castings from DA WF range..your interesting sociologic explanation and reasearch on the period for the sake of setting perfect toy armies will be shown to my girlfriend who still insist in pulling my legs and saying that my/our precious hobby has to be associated with never lasting never grown big chillds. :? ;) :)..while, in reality, is far more similar to a sort of academic research..
-
Italwars... I think that your last comment is the best response I've ever gotten to something I posted on a gaming forum! You are too kind and I wish you the very best of luck utilizing my post with your girlfriend!
-
OK next possibly stupid question
I'm starting to paint up the Sikhs.To my old eyes it looks like they have suspenders and then two cross belts holding the bag and water bottle.Is that right?
None of the other native infantry seem to have suspenders.
Thanks,Pete
-
Rotfl!!!
How weird is that? I was just about to ask a similar question about the Punjabis. I am not sure what is going on with the straps at the back.
I can make out two straps (one vertical and one diagonal) at the front over each shoulder but only one at the back on the left and possibly two on the right (I think..)
Tim
-
I started to dig through my book collection to look for info on webbing and the like to answer the above questio...and realised all that stuff is in storage.
So I then decided to turn to the great Google to try to answer the question...
and guess where Google told me the answer lies:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=69061.0 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=69061.0) lol lol lol
-
Lol!
I have read that thread before.
It helps with the British, but doesn't really help with Indian infantry. :(
Tim
-
Hmmm...not sure what the Memsahib's will think of me googling "Sikhs in Suspenders"....
-
lol lol lol
A normal day at the office?
lol lol lol
Darrell.
-
I thought this might be of interest to the discussion.
I was just doing a bit of research about the mixing of troops from different communities. Troops in certain Presidencies, in certain regiments and at certain times were mixed by religion and caste. Also, the approach in other units of not mixing troops came not from the fact that they could not be mixed, but rather it was contrary to imperial objectives to mix them.
The 1859 Peel Commission noted that the Madras and Bombay armies that had ignored or undercut caste and religious distinctions had not risen up and so recommended that "The Native Army should be composed of different nationalities and castes and, as a general rule, mixed promiscuously through each regiment."
By the 1880s, the army had gone the other way there were by this time a number of single caste or single religion regiments and regiments separating castes or religions by company. A number of officers opposed this approach, but it was championed by Lord Roberts, reflecting his martial races theory and experience of serving only in the Bengal Army. This was a British legitimation of existing cultural distinctions based upon Victorian theories and discourse about the importance of heredity and biological determinism. Such a discourse was important for justifying and legitimating colonialism, both for British and Indian audiences. It also provided a justification for reducing recruitment from the communities and castes that had taken part in the 1857 uprising. (Philip Mason, A Matter of Honour, and Richard Gabriel Fox, Lions of the Punjab)
There was also a crucial "divide and rule" aspect to this separation, as the Punjab Committee noted, "“As we cannot do without a large native army in India, our main object is to make that army safe; and next to the grand counterpoise of a sufficient European force comes the counterpoise of Natives against Natives. [...]To preserve that distinctiveness which is so valuable and which, while it lasts, makes the Muhammedan of one country despise, fear or dislike the Muhammedan of another, corps should in future be provincial, and adhere to the geographical limits within which differences and rivalries are strongly marked. [...] By the system thus indicated two great evils are avoided; firstly that community of feeling throughout the native army, and that mischievous political activity and intrigue which results from association with other races and travel in Indian provinces.”
Roberts also applied his theory of martial races to Highlanders, as well as Gurkhas and Sikhs. His reports disproportionately focused on and praised the actions by and connections between these groups and became reflected in the popular narrative (eg press, written by officers acting as correspondents or fiction, eg Kipling's Drums Fore and Aft), helping create links between these groups and furthering the popular myths. As a private of the Derbyshire Regiment said, "'It's no use an English regiment trying to get on where there's a regiment with the kilts.' Although the private referred to a Highland regiment, had he been an [Indian] soldier he might have expressed similar sentiments about Gurkha or Sikh regiments [...]" (Streets, Martial Races).
Sorry, that was a bit long.
-
Very interesting.
Incidentally, here's Artizan's Billy Fish to complete the Man Who Would Be King pack :
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/12360004_1161354590560108_4240529944479451532_n.jpg?oh=7e0c1102cc73679b00ed859b4d888c36&oe=57220A9C)
-
That's nice! When's the pack due for release?
-
Wow! He has a big chopper....... ;)
-
That's nice! When's the pack due for release?
They're out now!
-
Yep :
(http://www.artizandesigns.com/images/img2031.jpg)
http://www.artizandesigns.com/prod.php?prod=2031 (http://www.artizandesigns.com/prod.php?prod=2031)
-
Yep :
(http://www.artizandesigns.com/images/img2031.jpg)
http://www.artizandesigns.com/prod.php?prod=2031 (http://www.artizandesigns.com/prod.php?prod=2031)
The Minstrel Boy to the war is gone
In the ranks of death you will find him :)
-
Very nice!
I'm looking forward to the Osprey TMWWBK rules.
-
I recently purchased the British NCOS pack and found them to be amazing, two in poshteens and two in regs. Cleaned them up, primed them, came back the next day to begin painting when I noticed the two in regs don't have chevrons!! Now I have to remove the primer, get out the green stuff and add them myself. Really Mike, would it have been too much to ask that you would've sculpted Chevrons on them?! Sheesh!
-
Just paint them chevrons on?
Darrell.
-
Nnnnnnnooo! Blashphemer :o! Like the mini, it must be raised, not painted!!! But, hey, thanks for the suggestion :)
-
Nnnnnnnooo! Blashphemer :o! Like the mini, it must be raised, not painted!!! But, hey, thanks for the suggestion :)
You're welcome :) :D
Darrell.
-
Nnnnnnnooo! Blashphemer :o! Like the mini, it must be raised, not painted!!! But, hey, thanks for the suggestion :)
my god :D ::)...and what else ?..i'm sure we cannot avoid to also raise with milliput essential details like accentuated fungal fingers and beard hairs on your minis
-
Move along, old school, nothing for you to see here! lol
-
Also TRUTH IN ADVERTISING! Have we become so barbaric that we can't sculpt chevrons? Well, Mike, have WE (of course I mean YOU)?!?
-
Tamiya masking tape, double thickness, cut into chevrons and bunged on...
saves all that arty-farty 'sculpting' bollix!
;D
-
Yep :
(http://www.artizandesigns.com/images/img2031.jpg)
http://www.artizandesigns.com/prod.php?prod=2031 (http://www.artizandesigns.com/prod.php?prod=2031)
Great idea with the background!
-
Thank you for the tip, Harry. I'll have to get some. <RETURNING TO YOUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED RANT>BOLLIX?!?! How dare you, Sir! My second will contact your second! 6 a.m. on the city commons! I, actually, won't be there as I leave home for work at that time, soooo. lol
-
Yes but how many chevrons?
LCpl? Cpl? Sgt? and RSM? You only need one of those surely. But having a few Cpls and Sgts about plus some variation in ranks would be useful.
I paint mine on. Looks better than big bumpy sausages on the bloody sleeves.
And when did staff sgts with the crown over the chevrons come in?
-
Yes but how many chevrons?
LCpl? Cpl? Sgt? and RSM? You only need one of those surely. But having a few Cpls and Sgts about plus some variation in ranks would be useful.
I paint mine on. Looks better than big bumpy sausages on the bloody sleeves.
And when did staff sgts with the crown over the chevrons come in?
Staff sgts? Wrong nation I'm afraid old chap, I believe you mean Colour Sergeants. ;)
-
Just sargeant's chevrons, it's just for a TSATF platoon. All I'm saying is if you advertise NCOs, then at least put chevrons on the figures in regs. That's all I'm saying!! This isn't about ragging on Mike, I'm not going to stop buying his figures, it's just that I waited a long time to get NCOs and I was disappointed! Rant officially over!
-
Field promotions - haven't got the chevrons yet because someone with a jezail picked off the previous sergeant?
-
"Sergeant!"
"Sir"
"Lose the rank chevrons, marks you out to the snipers, there's a good chap."
"Sir?"
BANG!!!
"Aaargh!"
"Bugger... too late!!!"
:'(
-
lol very good!
-
Staff sgts? Wrong nation I'm afraid old chap, I believe you mean Colour Sergeants. ;)
No. British Army has staff Sergeants. 3 chevrons with a crown.
But I don't know when they were introduced.
Just did a Wikipedia check. Staff Sergeants are the same as Colour sergeants. Might depend on the corps/ Regiment as to what they're called.
-
Infantry have Colour Sergeants, Corps and Cavalry have Staff Sergeants, but there oddball exceptions like The Household Cavalry (Staff Corporal) and The Rifles (Colour Serjeants)
-
Might be what you're looking for then;
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_sergeant (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_sergeant)
:)
-
So anyway.
My point is maybe I want a cpl or a colour Sgt, or even an RSM, if you've got sculpted on chevrons it gets a bit tricky doesn't it?
-
Or the chevrons for the highest rank of NCO could be sculpted and the consumer could take his hobby knife and remove the excess parts to make, lets say, a corporal. How's that for lateral thinking.
Either way, I'm disappointed in the product. I've taken the advice given and ordered some 2mm Tamiya tape and in a couple of weeks I should have some time to use it as directed and I'll report my experience. Thank you all for your input. Happy Easter! He is risen!
-
"Sergeant!"
"Sir"
"Lose the rank chevrons, marks you out to the snipers, there's a good chap."
"Sir?"
BANG!!!
"Aaargh!"
"Bugger... too late!!!"
:'(
...."Smith - consider yourself promoted to sergeant"
"Yes sir, thank you sir"
"You'll need to get the chevrons off Putney there until we get back to base"
"Yes sir, thank you sir.....I'll look for a needle and thread after sorting out the firing line sir"
-
Alright! I got the 2mm Tamiya tape so on Sunday I'll be trying out the chevron-with-tape concept, keep your fingers crossed!
-
;D Piece of cake old chap! ;D
-
Anyone know if there are any new figs in the pipeline?
-
I understand that some more figures could be out April to June time
-
I would love his take on Ghurkas
-
So would I, especially as the Perry's seem to be pumping out Afghan War figures... :(