Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Colonial Adventures => Topic started by: Stéphane on October 22, 2008, 02:56:07 PM
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I actualy work on a solo-rules (single player against system) for miniatures : Beyond all frontiers.
Here the miniatures I will use to make my testing.
(http://perso.club-internet.fr/theilsb/CI_Albums/Figus/CI_PDTF_legion.jpg)
They're ESSEX 15mm from the franco-prussian range with linen in miliput by myself and my ten big fingers ::)
Stéphane
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Nice :)
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Wow, I thought they were 28mm to start with until I read your comments. Greta conversions and lovely painting. :)
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Very nice work, Stéphane :) As someone who is painting a load of 15mm minis at the moment I need to say how jealous I am of your painting! :D
What have you based them on, there?
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I thought they were good 28's too and thats without knowing about the conversions either.
Exceptional work sir - post more pics when they are based please.
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What have you based them on, there?
I don't know the word in english. It's a round steel base with a round hole in center (somone use the same thing for 25mm). May be the cheapest bases in the world :D . I use it because I could use magnetique sheet on the case's botom for carring my miniatures.
I will put some sand on it and some peints to feel like desert ground.
post more pics when they are based please.
It's just a pic take on the workbench juste after peinting. The next pictures will come with the game and probably some berbères or touaregs.
Stéphane
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Une rondelle? The English word is 'washer.'
Very nice. Could you not find Foreign Legion figures? Seems a lot of trouble to go to for something you'd think somebody would make. Great job though, anyway.
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Thanks, Stéphane. Washers, of course! D'oh! So obvious now ... :)
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Good paint job my friend :-*
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Une rondelle? The English word is 'washer.'
Great ! I win 0,1 XP more in my english knowledge. The second level is for soon :D
Stéphane
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Could you not find Foreign Legion figures?
I've found the Stone mountain [/quote] ones and I had try to make an order this last summer. But They are not very reactiv to my e-mail. So, I had these mini from ESSEX and last days a big pulsion to peint some légionnaires :D .
But, I need the stones mountain arab or berbers for finish the project. So, it si probably not finish soon ::)
Stéphane (http://www.historicalminiatures.com/lfa.htm)
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I just had a thought. Before the 1930s, shouldn't the epaulettes be green? After that time green and red? I may be wrong, but I'm sure I've seen them green in a picture of a Legionnaire in Mexico.
Doesn't stop them being great figures, though.
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I just had a thought. Before the 1930s, shouldn't the epaulettes be green? After that time green and red? I may be wrong, but I'm sure I've seen them green in a picture of a Legionnaire in Mexico.
Doesn't stop them being great figures, though.
In my "Funcken" source book, they are red. I belive green it's for the late periode.
Stéphane
EDIT: May be the green ones were for the light troops.
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very nice !!!!! :D
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Very nice indeed!
the usual epaulettes for legionaries were red -or better this is the popular belief.
green was for light infantry. I think they changed to green/red with khaki uniforms.
I have to check.
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My Mexican Osprey book isn't much help, it shows three French soldiers of different types, including a Legionnaire, and all three have green and yellow or green and red epaulettes. Yet the text says the standard colour was red. I also found this diorama of Camerone...
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/camerone2.jpg)
I don't know what the answer is, but I'd like to know for sure. I suspect it is indeed to do with troop types, but I really don't know. ??? ???
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OK I am convinced. I'll check my reference books and give you details. Since I am at office and my books are at home, the news will come either very late in the night or tomorrow.
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The Légion étrangère (foreign legion) use many differents troops. Light ones with green epaulettes and other ligne troops with reds ones and probalby horses too. That is what I belive.
Stéphane
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Those with the green epaulettes would have been light infantry/company etc
Here is a good link which may help
http://www.geocities.com/fenerator/maxunif.htm
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Je croyais que les épaulettes de la Légion Étrangère étaient rose et a pois vert??? lol
Anyhow, that kind of painting standard on 15mm figures is quite amazing!
Hope to see some more of your work soon! ;)
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Stephane,
If you are not already familiar with this website, you need to go here:
http://www.warflag.com/shadow/index.html
This website was put together by Ian Croxall. He has good links to uniform info, movies, sources for figures and terrain, and a bibliography. He also has posted photos and descriptions of games he has produced using his "Red Shadow" character. I've had the great good fortune to have played in a couple of his "Red Shadow" games. Really good stuff!
Warren
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As I promised some notes, all data is from:
Uniforms of the french Foreign Legion
by Martin Windrow
illustrated by Mike Chappell
Blandford Press reprinted and revised 1986, paperback 1986:
1852: green epaulettes with red crescent. [No 13]
1863: mexico: red epaulettes
1868: legion has distinctive epaulettes: green epaulettes with red fringes for all companies.[No 24]
1886: tonkin as for 1868. the figure is depicted wearing the colonial pith helmet. [30]
there are numerous depictions of various legionnaires, in both white and red trousers without epaulettes in campaign dress.
1900-1913: parade dress still: green epaulettes with red fringes. [Nos 41,43]
ww1: horizon blue uniform no epaulettes
1920's white or khaki fatigue dress [it is stated that they wear and a combination of the two] No 53 is one sergeant, all white uniform, black (I think) kepi, green epaulettes with red fringes. rank chevrons in green.
the next plates show various in khaki uniforms till ww2. usually in campaign dress no epaulettes. all parade dress, walking out dress etc all show the same epaulettes; green with red fringes. Book stops at 1981 so, the last figure is end of 70's.
in the last parade in france legionaires had epaulettes. I cannot remember the colour.
so, contrary to the popular belief [be sure I thought that legion's epaulletes were always red, until now] the epaulettes of french foreign legion were: green with red for all companies.
hope I helped you.
however what I am writing here has nothing to do with Stephane's work. It is marvellous
and if I understand well from the photo Stephane has correct epaulettes!
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Minifigs makes a 15mm scale line for French Foreign Legion and Berbers. They are still at:http://www.minifigs.com/ (http://www.minifigs.com/)
Could you not find Foreign Legion figures?
I've found the Stone mountain (http://www.historicalminiatures.com/lfa.htm)
ones and I had try to make an order this last summer. But They are not very reactiv to my e-mail. So, I had these mini from ESSEX and last days a big pulsion to peint some légionnaires :D .
But, I need the stones mountain arab or berbers for finish the project. So, it si probably not finish soon ::)
Stéphane
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Thanks, argsilverson. Good work. And sorry for distracting attention away from Stéphane's figures. I was curious as to the answer, that's all. Interesting that it says red for Mexico, and yet it was numerous depictions of green ones in Mexico that gave me the idea that they were green in the first place! Still a minor mystery there, then. ???
But let's not worry about that now. Looking forward to seeing the North Africans Stéphane's boys will be facing (at least we won't have to worry about their epaulettes! :)
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No mystery at all.
In mexico two explains:
.- the legion made use of whatever they could find. the plate in fact shows a legionary having a naval straw hat.
.- standarisation of the epaulettes in green/red came some time later. so, probably there was a distinction of the various companies. sorry this is a detail I could not find so easily.
As I told you, although I had this book, long time ago, never noticed it very well, because I had not to paint any legionaires. Always, I thought they had red epaulettes. Now, I know.
However, although I like historically correct figures, I don;t argue very much on the details, as long as it is good for the eye. SO, I could accept legionaires in red epaulettes, for gaming etc, but not for museums. Anyhow our hobby is mostly "fantasy" and we could always accept a certain degree of artists licence.
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Freicorps have a good range of French for Mexico worth a look . I was planning on doing armies based on Fire and Fury with the French coming in on the side of the Confederates ;D
http://www.quickreactionforce.co.uk/catalog/index.php?cPath=22
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Yes, I always fancied using those Freikorps figures to do the Legion in Mexico. There's something about the uniforms of the earlier 19th Century troops that I like the look of more than the traditional early 20th Century "March or Die!" look we are so familiar with from films. They just look more snazzy and classy.
Of course, my 15mm Mexico project is one of those things I never got around to. At least I don't have loads of unpainted figures lying around. I didn't even get as far as buying them.
Thanks again for all your digging, argsilverson. You're a star. It's nice to know these things. As you say, one doesn't always have to pay attention to them when painting, but it is nice to know nonetheless.
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Yes, I always fancied using those Freikorps figures to do the Legion in Mexico. There's something about the uniforms of the earlier 19th Century troops that I like the look of more than the traditional early 20th Century "March or Die!" look we are so familiar with from films. They just look more snazzy and classy.
Of course, my 15mm Mexico project is one of those things I never got around to. At least I don't have loads of unpainted figures lying around. I didn't even get as far as buying them.
Thanks again for all your digging, argsilverson. You're a star. It's nice to know these things. As you say, one doesn't always have to pay attention to them when painting, but it is nice to know nonetheless.
Same here Poly, I even worked out for Fire and Fury the whole army lists for the French and which packs I would need etc and then decided against it. I dont think I could paint 15mm after so long doing 28mm. I did have the old Foudnry Mexicans and Frnech but with the new figures they sort of didnt work for me and sold them all off in the end
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Freicorps have a good range of French for Mexico worth a look . I was planning on doing armies based on Fire and Fury with the French coming in on the side of the Confederates ;D
http://www.quickreactionforce.co.uk/catalog/index.php?cPath=22
Indeed Freikorps has a very nice range of 15mm for mexico, not to mention the other ranges, like great paraguayan war range they have. Since I have not bought from them for the last 10 years or so, just a question. Did they improve in their metal? it was rather brittle and fragile.
Thanks again for all your digging, argsilverson. You're a star. It's nice to know these things. As you say, one doesn't always have to pay attention to them when painting, but it is nice to know nonetheless.
thanks for your kind words. you are flattering me. But I don not want to steal Stephane's thread. All good words should go to him. He has a very beautiful paintjob to show us and also he has given us the chance to discuss all these minor details.
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Stephane,
Excellent figures - couldnt believe they were 15's they are so well painted and modelled.
Tell us more about the rules you are working on please.
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In mexico two explains:
.- the legion made use of whatever they could find. the plate in fact shows a legionary having a naval straw hat.
In Mexico, the legion used to fight in shell jacket without epaulettes. I don't believe they made use of every material available for epaulettes.
- standarisation of the epaulettes in green/red came some time later. so, probably there was a distinction of the various companies. sorry this is a detail I could not find so easily.
At the time of the Maximilian adventure, Fusiliers companies had red/green epaulettes. Epaulettes were yellow for voltigeurs cies (light infantrymen) and red for grenadiers cies. A french batallion had 6 fusiliers cies, 1 grenadiers cie and 1 voltigeurs cie.
In 1867, epaulettes became red for all french infantrymen but legionnaires kept theirs green with red fringes and crescent. Epaulettes were rarely worn on campaign thereafter but remained of the same colour.
As far as I know, Stephane figures uniforms are very correct (and very nicely painted too....hope he'll paint 25mm one day :P). He could also have painted cloth belts in light blue too as there were no colour regulations for this piece of dress.
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In mexico two explains:
.- the legion made use of whatever they could find. the plate in fact shows a legionary having a naval straw hat.
In Mexico, the legion used to fight in shell jacket without epaulettes. I don't believe they made use of every material available for epaulettes.
in mexico they used of whatever material they could find means that they used jacket not material to make epaulettes. Figure No 18 [plate 6] of above mentioned book shows the legionnaire with red epaulettes and straw hat. the same figure is on the cover of the book.
- standarisation of the epaulettes in green/red came some time later. so, probably there was a distinction of the various companies. sorry this is a detail I could not find so easily.
At the time of the Maximilian adventure, Fusiliers companies had red/green epaulettes. Epaulettes were yellow for voltigeurs cies (light infantrymen) and red for grenadiers cies. A french batallion had 6 fusiliers cies, 1 grenadiers cie and 1 voltigeurs cie.
In 1867, epaulettes became red for all french infantrymen but legionnaires kept theirs green with red fringes and crescent. Epaulettes were rarely worn on campaign thereafter but remained of the same colour.
This must be!
As far as I know, Stephane figures uniforms are very correct (and very nicely painted too....hope he'll paint 25mm one day :P). He could also have painted cloth belts in light blue too as there were no colour regulations for this piece of dress.
I second that!
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Sorry, Argsilverson, I misunderstood your sentence :?
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awesome work old chap !!! I can't wait too see more of it, terrain, foes, and rules - keep going.
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awesome work old chap !!! I can't wait too see more of it, terrain, foes, and rules - keep going.
I know a black bear among my french's friend, but he live (sleep?) in a cold and far away dark cave near Paris ;)
May be after your hibernation you will see the rules and some exemples from the testing games.
Stéphane
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Top Notch!
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Excellent work. Your 15s look better than many 28s I've seen (I only just came across this thread, so please excuse my late comments).
Following on from the comments about epaulettes, can any on help me with another uniform question? I need to know what rank badges were used in the late 19th century by the legion, both for NCOs and officers. Any help would be appreciated.
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Excellent work. Your 15s look better than many 28s I've seen (I only just came across this thread, so please excuse my late comments).
Following on from the comments about epaulettes, can any on help me with another uniform question? I need to know what rank badges were used in the late 19th century by the legion, both for NCOs and officers. Any help would be appreciated.
The ranks of the french army remained virtually unchanged till today.
So, legion ranks were similar to those of the army.
Officers had stripes (up to five for the ranks of adjutant to colonel) and stars from brigadier and on to generals.
ranks were displayed on the lower part of the sleeves, on the epaulettes and on the kepi. all uniforms i.e. white, khaki and blue/red uniforms display them. as stated in above mentioned reference book:
"Rank lace was worn round the cuffs"
in the plates showing the legion from 1890-1914 they show gold lace in both khaki and blue jacket, I suspect same colour for the white uniforms.
However I think the adjutants had silver coloured stripe, while lt-colonel had 4-and- a-half stripe. Also note that the brigadier (one star general) was not quite a general but a rank between the colonel and the first general rank (brigade general) in british army for example. I think that the french have up to six general ranks i.e. up to six stars. I do not know ever a french field marshal with 6 stars.
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Here is a link for the plate of FFL in 1900 with rank:
http://forum.uniforminsignia.org/viewtopic.php?t=1179