Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Great War => Topic started by: Will Bailie on October 24, 2008, 12:49:12 AM
-
I surrendered to temptation and bought Foundry's German Cavalry deal, which arrived on my doorstep yesterday (happily enough, with no interference from Canada Customs!). Two weeks, nice fast service!
Now I need to figure out how to paint them.
My Osprey on the subject (MAA394) is frustratingly cryptic on the subject. Reading the text on pp33-36, I can figure out things like that piping is in regimental colours, but then I am unable to figure out what those colours are!
Can anyone recommend information sources for German WWI cavalry uniforms?
Ta very much!
and as a follow-up question: to my untutored eye, Belgian lancers look quite similar to German Uhlans:
http://www.greatwardifferent.com/Great_War/80_Postcards/80_Postcards_02.htm
If I were to paint the Foundry Uhlans with blue coats, would I be close enough to use them as Belgians, or are there some major differences in uniform that I'm not aware of?
Thanks again
W
-
The main noticeable difference with the Foundry figures is that they are wearing obviously German leather equipment. The German belt is very distinctive, and the Belgian lancers wore nothing like that. Don't think they even wore belts.
Another, less noticeable thing is that German Uhlans wore the traditional lancer jacket with the fancy buttoning arrangement (I think they call it a plastron front). Here's Manfred modelling one for us, to give you an idea of what I mean:
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/red.jpg)
Whereas the Belgian Lancer wore a simple double-breasted tunic, with two rows of buttons.
As always, it really comes down to how much of a stickler you are, and what you're prepared to put up with. If it was me, the belts would bother me much more than the jackets, as they are much more noticeable and obviously wrong. Painted as Belgians I don't suppose too many folks would laugh and point at you, though. It's a good idea, so why not, if you're happy with them?
Your call, I'm afraid.
-
List of Uhlan regiments and the regimental colours of all their various doodads:
http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/ulan0.htm
Hussars:
http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/husar0.htm
Cuirassiers:
http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/kurassier0.htm
Dragoons:
http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/dragon0.htm
Here's the main page of that site. Lots of interesting little titbits there if you have a nose around:
http://www.kaisersbunker.com/
Though as to what the differences between Red, Ponceau Red, and Wine Red are, I'm afraid you're on your own, mate! :)
-
like Plynkes said Belgians are quite different; No belts are present only a strap for the canteen. The following link gives lancer uniforms just before WWI (number 4 shows the field jacket)
http://www.francs-arquebusiers.be/aubry/AUBRYP17.html
-
Excellent resources, Poly, thanks very much. I'm afraid that for me, at least, red is red.
Thanks Poly and cdr for the info on Belgian lancers. I'll have to decide if the Uhlans will remain German or be morphed into Belgian - on the one hand, the folks I game with will neither know nor care, on the other hand, I will know that they are incorrect and that will bother me immeasurably. Fortunately, I already know that I am too lazy to do any headswapping or other conversions!
Regards
W
-
Digging around that site it is interesting that there were German regiments (descended from old KGL and Hanoverian ones) sporting such distinctions as "Gibraltar" cuff bands, and czapska plates with "Peninsula", "Garcia Hernandez" and "Waterloo" on them. All the while they were facing the British as a foe. It hadn't occurred to me that this would be so before. But why wouldn't they want to keep their battle honours, even if they were handed out by the folks who were now the enemy? :)
-
I thought something similar when reading Storm of Steel, where Junger talks about his regiment having a Gibraltar battle honour. Of course the regiments should honour their ancestors, the allies or enemies of today don't take away from the achievements of the past.
Also worth thinking about those Scots Greys, trotting through 1914 Belgium with the French eagle on their cap badge (captured at Waterloo), on their way to help their new French allies take on their new German (incl Prussian) foe! (probably a few other British regiments with the same or similar situations, that was the one that came first to mind)
Looking back over nearly a century where the British fought two major wars with Germany, it's hard to remember that the Entente Cordiale only dated to 1904 (recent history in 1914), while Germans were family for many Brits (including the Royal family!). Robert Graves mentions his German relatives in "Goodbye to all that", and that he had family members in the German army on the Western front while he was there with the British.
-
Ah yes, I seem to remember Graves talking about getting quite a bit of stick for the 'von Ranke' part of his name at school.
Just for further bewildering detail about who was fighting who and when, those Hanoverian "Gibraltar" awards were earned by Germans fighting the Spanish in Spain, in a war fought to prevent the Americans gaining independence from Britain.
Crazy world we live in. ;D
-
There was a article in wargames illustrated about painting the foundry cavalry by Kevin Dallimore that may well be available some where.
-
There was a article in wargames illustrated about painting the foundry cavalry by Kevin Dallimore that may well be available some where.
Is that the same Great War painting article that was on the Foundry website, back in the good old days, when they still had the Foundry library? There used to be some good articles in there.
-
Is that the same Great War painting article that was on the Foundry website, back in the good old days, when they still had the Foundry library? There used to be some good articles in there.
it could well be, i only looked on the foundry site yesterday and realised how bad that site is! :(
-
I've found the WI that the article is in, i will get it scan and email it to you if you like :D
Keith
-
Excellent! Thanks very much :D
W
-
A requested by Keith (thanks for the article!), here are the first four. I've tried two slightly different shades of grey for the hussars, not sure which I'll go with (or if I'll try something else altogether different!). At any rate, I'll finish on the Uhlans and dragoons first.
Four German Cavalry:
(http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x96/WillBailie/Miniatures/Photos016.jpg)
Two colours for the Hussars:
(http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x96/WillBailie/Miniatures/Photos018.jpg)
Dragoon and Uhlan:
(http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x96/WillBailie/Miniatures/Photos019.jpg)
-
Hi Will,
How may cavalry of each type do you have?
-
Helen
The deal has 12 hussars, 12 uhlans and 12 dragoons. http://www.wargamesfoundry.com/xmaswinter/BIGBATGREATWAR/4/index.asp (http://www.wargamesfoundry.com/xmaswinter/BIGBATGREATWAR/4/index.asp)
Due to a slight packaging error, I ended up with an extra hussar and one less uhlan. All the troopers of each type come in only one pose, although there are 3 different horses. No command figures, although I suppose one could convert figures from the Franco-Prussian War line.
Painting all these lovely cavalry in such dull grey colours, plus looking at the fantastic pix of the Battle of Kew, has me thinking that I should be working on an army for the late 19th Century, rather than the early 20th. At least I have the French and the Belgians to bring a spot of colour to the table (and the KuK cavalry, if I ever get around to them!).
W
-
Looking Good Will :D :D :D
thanks for posting.
If you do some with yellow piping it should add some extra colour
Keith :D
-
Helen
No command figures, although I suppose one could convert figures from the Franco-Prussian War line.
Painting all these lovely cavalry in such dull grey colours, plus looking at the fantastic pix of the Battle of Kew, has me thinking that I should be working on an army for the late 19th Century, rather than the early 20th. At least I have the French and the Belgians to bring a spot of colour to the table (and the KuK cavalry, if I ever get around to them!).
W
1.- yes you can.
2.- painting for late 19th and early 20th [i.e. VSF] will bring you more colour!!!
-
Helen
The deal has 12 hussars, 12 uhlans and 12 dragoons. http://www.wargamesfoundry.com/xmaswinter/BIGBATGREATWAR/4/index.asp (http://www.wargamesfoundry.com/xmaswinter/BIGBATGREATWAR/4/index.asp)
Due to a slight packaging error, I ended up with an extra hussar and one less uhlan. All the troopers of each type come in only one pose, although there are 3 different horses. No command figures, although I suppose one could convert figures from the Franco-Prussian War line.
Painting all these lovely cavalry in such dull grey colours, plus looking at the fantastic pix of the Battle of Kew, has me thinking that I should be working on an army for the late 19th Century, rather than the early 20th. At least I have the French and the Belgians to bring a spot of colour to the table (and the KuK cavalry, if I ever get around to them!).
W
Thanks Will,
I've the Battle Honours German Ulans which I'm converting for use in Macedonia, 1917.
They are very good figures with a command pack (officer, trumpeter, 2 ors) and separate arms with sword/open handed(command pack plus two lances with pennons) and the other pack with four open hands and four lances with pennons.
Thanks for your reply.
Helen
-
while posting some error occured and only half of my message went through. sorry for reposting:
Helen
No command figures, although I suppose one could convert figures from the Franco-Prussian War line.
Painting all these lovely cavalry in such dull grey colours, plus looking at the fantastic pix of the Battle of Kew, has me thinking that I should be working on an army for the late 19th Century, rather than the early 20th. At least I have the French and the Belgians to bring a spot of colour to the table (and the KuK cavalry, if I ever get around to them!).
W
1.- yes you can.
2.- painting for late 19th and early 20th [i.e. VSF] will bring you more colour!!!
L&F Funcken in their WW1 books list two pages with almost all hussars uniforms available. you can have red hussars with white piping or black with white and silver piping. uhlans and dragoons have not so much variety.
by the way the change of the colours happened something around 1907 or something.
if you want I can check and give you some painting ideas. However VSF is a rather fantasy genre, so you can use whatever uniforms you like. But it is much more colourful !
-
Thanks for the comments, Keith, Argsilverson and Helen. I'll content myself with grey for the dragoons and uhlans, but with red and yellow piping to add colour (so that they will match the feldgrau infantry), but the idea of painting up some Death's Head Hussars in black is very tempting!
Will