Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Conflicts that came in from the Cold => Topic started by: Calimero on 13 August 2015, 04:14:59 PM
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Looking for pictures of Britannia Miniatures on Google, I stumble upon a picture of Liberation Minis’ Argentinian figures, for the Falkland, which I always thought would look good for 1970’s Canadians…
Now, having the wandering mind of the average wargamer, I started to wonder when the Leopard tank series entered service in the Canadian army and, more importantly what was the "Main Battle Tank" of the Canadian army before the Leopard. Does anyone know?
Cheers!
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In 1980, Leopard 1 was used along M48 and upgraded M24. (source) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War_tank_formations#Canada)
Before, I don't know but look at that (http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/vehicles/tanks/mainbattletanks.htm) !
Hope it helps
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Thanks for the links! 8)
Look like Canada used quite a lot (by Canadian standards) of Centurion tanks too in the 1970's.
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Canada never had M48s. The had Centurions and they replaced them with Leopard C1.
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Canada never had M48s. The had Centurions and they replaced them with Leopard C1.
Yeah, put the shame on me, I misread the Wiki (I read the Norway section). The second link is more accurate.
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I believe (Source: Armoured Acorn TO&Es) that at one point they proposed a Canadian Armoured Division for NATO deployment with Centurions as the MBTs, with Conquerors as 'Firefly' equivalents and using M41 Walker Bulldogs as light/recce tanks. I think only the Centurions actually happened, but I have a lovely 'what if' Canadian force in 6mm!
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Very roughly, Canadian troops in the 1970's would look like Viet Nam era Americans, but with FN rifles.
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Very roughly, Canadian troops in the 1970's would look like Viet Nam era Americans, but with FN rifles.
That’s why I think the Liberation Minis Argentines will fit the bills just fine… at least for a "moderate climate" outfits… ;)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll206/Calimero_34/20mm%20%20Liberation%20Miniatures%20Argentinians_zpsjmud727r.jpg) (http://s289.photobucket.com/user/Calimero_34/media/20mm%20%20Liberation%20Miniatures%20Argentinians_zpsjmud727r.jpg.html)
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For what it's worth back in the 1980s I had a Canadian unit converted from Platoon20 Vietnam Americans with some West Germans thrown in for variety.
I found that in small scales M16s with their carrying handles cut off look a lot like SLRs if painted with wooden stock etc. Obviously this depends on the detail of the sculpted weapon and how fussy/ocd you are. For GPMG gunners I added US heads to Israeli MAG gunners. Characters with SMGs were similarly 're-headed' British.
For me using 'Nam era US figures as a basis dodged all the hooded parkas etc.
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If you could handle re heading figures, you could also use any Falklands era Brits w US Vietnam helmet heads.
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These any use:
http://sandsmodelsshop.com/product-category/172-modern-figures/western-europe-multi-head-fig-range/
?
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Pics of my 20mm 1984 Cold War Canadians for use with Force on Force First Clash. They represent B Squadron Royal Canadian Dragoons and N Company 3rd Royal Canadian Regiment based in CFB Lahr.
Figs are Elhiem, Platoon 20 and Britannia. Vehicles are Britannia, S&S, and Italeri.
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w110/Fireman_Tim/First%20Clash/DSCF5091_zps1fp3w4ex.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/Fireman_Tim/media/First%20Clash/DSCF5091_zps1fp3w4ex.jpg.html)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w110/Fireman_Tim/First%20Clash/DSCF5092_zps93mnhx3f.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/Fireman_Tim/media/First%20Clash/DSCF5092_zps93mnhx3f.jpg.html)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w110/Fireman_Tim/First%20Clash/DSCF5093_zpssftvbw7t.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/Fireman_Tim/media/First%20Clash/DSCF5093_zpssftvbw7t.jpg.html)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w110/Fireman_Tim/First%20Clash/DSCF5095_zpstionf8e3.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/Fireman_Tim/media/First%20Clash/DSCF5095_zpstionf8e3.jpg.html)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w110/Fireman_Tim/First%20Clash/DSCF5096_zpsxclovovr.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/Fireman_Tim/media/First%20Clash/DSCF5096_zpsxclovovr.jpg.html)
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Oh man, absolutely love those pics!! I was in the Canadian army for some time and actually used the FNC1 when I first joined. Correct on the centurion being what the L1 replaced. Vietnam equipment, FNC1 ... yup, my helmet I think was straight outta Vietnam, my crappy radio certainly was ;)
Browning 50 and 30 cal for support ... and LAW (M72) light rockets ... the one good thing is that if it wasn't nailed down we'd take it ...lots of improvised kit lol
Good luck with your project! :)
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I was an Infantry reservist 90-91 so we had the C-7s by then. But I always had a fascination with 4CMBG and I love First Clash by Kenneth Macksey.
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I think fireman Tim needs some Lynx M113 mod recce tracks as well though.
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Nice collection. Very inspiring! 8)
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Sorry I saw this a tad late, but I'm actually friends with the son of the colonel who commanded the Canadian tank forces in West Germany in the mid 80s (84, 85).
I don't know the old man personally and I don't see my friend very often (we worked together for three years, but I'm not at that company anymore), so I wouldn't want to bug him much, but if a really weird or specific question came up, I'm sure I could forward an inquiry or two.
For now it looks like your questions are more basic, and also that second link out of the two provided by Ulu Elsomalien seems immensely informative and to cover most of what you'd want to know just for wargaming purposes. So you're probably set for now.
All I'll say is just make sure you have a scenario where the American tankers do something ridiculous, like drive around in circles lost in central Germany for three days while the Germans and Canadians shake their heads. Or an American lieutenant trying to pull rank on a Canadian colonel who does in fact have authority over him and thereby suffering a fate best left unspoken. Not that anything like that would ever happen in real life. That would be silly.
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In 1980, Leopard 1 was used along M48 and upgraded M24. (source) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War_tank_formations#Canada)
Before, I don't know but look at that (http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/vehicles/tanks/mainbattletanks.htm) !
Hope it helps
No m48 or m24.
Before Leopard it was Centurions. Before that, Shermans.
The Shermans ended up on pedestals in front of armouries; Centurions as range targets.
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I think fireman Tim needs some Lynx M113 mod recce tracks as well though.
Those would be M114 Lynx :)
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Ya, I got 2 M114 Lynx of them from S&S.
I used to have cougars and grizzlys in 1/72 but sold them :'( They were perfect for 5e Brigade reinforcements.
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w110/Fireman_Tim/4%20Andrew/101_4095.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/Fireman_Tim/media/4%20Andrew/101_4095.jpg.html)
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All I'll say is just make sure you have a scenario where the American tankers do something ridiculous, like drive around in circles lost in central Germany for three days while the Germans and Canadians shake their heads. Or an American lieutenant trying to pull rank on a Canadian colonel who does in fact have authority over him and thereby suffering a fate best left unspoken. Not that anything like that would ever happen in real life. That would be silly.
lol
The Shermans ended up on pedestals in front of armouries; Centurions as range targets.
I lived for ten years (more or less) in Sherbrooke, in the Eastern Township, there's a park with a WWII Sherman which, apparently, went from the Normandy beaches to Germany without a scratch… I wonder how usual/unusual it was for a tank to last that long… :?