Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Back of Beyond => Topic started by: sukhe_bator on September 02, 2015, 08:26:51 AM
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This is probably a stupid question answered elsewhere, but please can someone tell me what livery British 18pr QFs sported in Mesopotamia in WW1. I can't believe all British artillery across the world was painted olive green, yet all I can find is b/w images or Western front based models!
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lol it's not daft question,
It just depends upon how you intend to use the model,(just for the Middle East or other theatres as well).a sand colour wouldn't be out of place ,then neither would a disruptive pattern .the simple solution is a mid grey as standard you could use on multiple fronts,and also your bog standard green,Kit tended to be painted in theatre arriving in standard/factory/previous theatre colours,changing scheme is down to the crew and how rapidly its deployed in theatre ,some of the armoured cars went straight into action in their original theatre schemes and were changed when time allowed and in several cases not at all.
It's no different today it's the speed of deployment that dictates the colour scheme rather than theatre,and adapted as and when and if.
So just aim for what suits the overall feel of your game if sand colour helps promote the feel of the theatre you want to portray ,rather than green etc then go with that.what ever you do someone will always find an example that contradicts an assumed standard . For me WW1 is period of transition into an industrial standardised way of waging a war littered with bespoke methods and small factory variations ,which leads to all sorts of nightmares when people try and visualise it through 21st eyes.
Sorry that got preachy quick.
The short version is standard is actually stanard(ish) so your never truly right,and your never truly wrong if you aim for an overall feel rather than an accurate standard because it never happen in the first place.
Mark.
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Thanks tin shed gamer
I'm wargaming MallMiss in the immediate post WW1 era where a battery of 18pdrs from 44 Regt RA was attached to Malleson's mission in N Persia directly from the Mesopotamian/Palestine theatre. Following your advice I imagine the crews and guns having seen hard service in the Middle East would have adopted a desert sand colour by then - so a sand colour it is!
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Whilst there was no official sand colour used in Mesopotamia, some guns were indeed painted sand by their crews. Many more however were left Ordanace Grey, some were painted Olive Green and some had a disruptive pattern painted over the grey. There is a picture on the front of the Opsrey book - British Artillery 1914-19 by Dale Clarke which shows an example of the latter (link below). By chance Dale works in the next door office to me and a quick chat elicited the above information. Hope that is of some use.
https://ospreypublishing.com/british-artillery-1914-19
Bottom line is paint it however you like. No one can prove you wrong. Personally I would go with disruptive sand over grey.
I recommend the book.
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Hu Rhu,
I'm loving the camo scheme. :-* :-*
I reckon I'll go with that, otherwise my MallMiss will look pretty drab lol
Please pass on my thanks to Dale for me. I shall certainly keep my eyes open for the Osprey. Looks like it would be a useful addition to my library.
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Glad I could help.
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The end results. 44Btty RFA in Turkmenistan attached to MallMiss. 15mm 18pdr QFs by Peter Pig with Eureka gun crew
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/Transcaspian%20conflict/IMAG1689_zpsq0ltjlst.jpg~original)
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/Transcaspian%20conflict/IMAG1687_zpsibmiurt0.jpg~original)
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Looks good Sukhe!
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Very nice!
LB
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Wow!,can't believe those are 15's very nice.
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I would DEARLY love to model this vignette in 15mm. How the British engineers/Artillery solve the problem of spotting and range-finding in the open desert...
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-95-buoLCGCI/Vswm7wQciQI/AAAAAAAAESs/cbHE17jmoyI/s1600/PICT0019.JPG
I'm on the hunt for a 15mm WW1 British limber I can do this with...!
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I think it was a 'common' modification as I've got a strong recollection of seeing a photo of a French 75mm limber used in exactly the same way.
Do Minifigs or QRF have suitable models? They have limbers in their WWI ranges & I've seen QRFs ACW limbers used for WWI guns.
(http://www.metropostcard.com/picswar-7c/ww1-c-119-french75.jpg.jpg)
The commander is standing on an upturned limber.
(http://erenow.com/ww/thefirstworldwarkeeganjohn/thefirstworldwarkeeganjohn.files/image033.jpg)
LHS - I can just make out an observer on the limber.
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Nice call Etranger - Many thanks for the detail. It does make a good deal of sense to create an impromptu vantage point.
I'll certainly check out the QRF ACW kit. I hadn't thought of potentially using that before.
While Minifigs and Peter Pig have pretty much been my go to-firms, the Minifigs WW1 limber and crew is an unknown quantity because there's no image. Much as I love Peter Pig their Russian WW1 limber has a cast-on crew hanging on for dear life so I can't use that... Plus I have already used them as proxy Chinese Warlord crew...
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/chineseartillery.jpg~original)
I'm certainly not averse to mixing and matching figures widely to achieve an overall effect. I've even put in a small order to Eureka/Fighting 15s for some Serbian and Bulgarian artillery crews for my TransCaspian armoured train gun crews. I figured those, mixed with Russian and Austro-Hungarian gun crew and a few strategically placed fur-capped head swaps will achieve the polyglot look I'm after as well as give a wider variety of poses.
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I've got some unbuilt Minifigs limbers secreted away somewhere. I'm away ATM but will try & dig them out next week. They look quite good from memory but I picked them up a fair few years ago now, before they moved from Southampton.
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Much as I love Peter Pig their Russian WW1 limber has a cast-on crew hanging on for dear life so I can't use that.
I was wondering why you weren't using the Peter Pig ones, because they are the ones I used, and I knew that mine don't have crew so that I can use them for all factions.
I cast a new limber seat in resin and used that to replace the crewed one. On the scale of conversions, it wasn't too hard, and I only had to do it once for the six limbers I have.
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Wow, MP, that's beyond my skillset, but kudos to you for doing it... Etranger, I may just take you up on that... ;)
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After a considerable time I'm pondering further on this. I can probably cut off the limber box with crew and fashion a new one from greenstuff...
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Some w.i.p. shots of the MallMiss improvised armoured train. A civilian carriage in Imperial Russian livery with improvised sandbag, boiler plate and cotton bale defences. The whole mounted on a chassis from a cut down 00 scale airfix wagon kit. When complete the Artillery OP on the roof will be flanked by 2 hard points with MG nests. Sentries are by Eureka 15s.
A second armour-plated coach along the same basic design is also in the carriage works, along with sundry flat and box wagons to be pressed into military use.
The Engine shed is also slowly taking shape... With a 200mm x 150mm footprint it is the largest 15mm building I have undertaken for a long time. Still to do... decorative stonework string courses, windows, 4 sets of double doors, interior struts on the roof and chimney stacks. The build is being designed to lift off entirely from the base which will be landscaped to hide the gaps.
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Good to see you moving forward on this. Nice work!
LB
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Anyone know where I could obtain early 1900s to WW1/RCW 15mm-20mm 1:100 to 1:120 scale naval guns on pedestal mounts? I'm looking to equip a blindirov improvised armoured train wagon with one or two.
I read that the Whites used them and the Russians produced 120mm (5.75"), 152mm (6") and 75mm (2.9") guns under licence from Canet, as well as 47mm Hotchkiss. Its the fact that they have all the breech mechanisms exposed with the open turret/gun shield that makes them tricky to model in 15mm. The longer smooth barrel looks very different from the clunkier field guns with compensator mechanisms etc.
I can fudge one with an open turret and hide the gubbins and crew by modelling a tarpaulin connecting the turret to the armoured sides (which i know they did do). It would be nice to model the open variety with naval ratings as gun crew...
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Try some of the naval model lines. They have 1/96 guns etc which might prove suitable. I've used them as a source for Oerlikons for my French Indochina project. eg https://www.model-dockyard.com/acatalog.html
(https://www.model-dockyard.com/acatalog/489000.jpg)
Peter Pig have 'Naval' heads in their odds & sods to add to suitable gunners.
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Try some of the naval model lines. They have 1/96 guns etc which might prove suitable. I've used them as a source for Oerlikons for my French Indochina project. eg https://www.model-dockyard.com/acatalog.html
(https://www.model-dockyard.com/acatalog/489000.jpg)
Peter Pig have 'Naval' heads in their odds & sods to add to suitable gunners.
Thanks for the tip, I've tried 1:100 and 1:120 but didn't think to try 1:96! Doh!
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I like your train.