Lead Adventure Forum

Other Stuff => General Wargames and Hobby Discussion => Topic started by: Bezzo on 20 September 2015, 04:07:21 PM

Title: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: Bezzo on 20 September 2015, 04:07:21 PM: We spend endless hours in indoor sedentary activities....painting, modelling, researching and reading.

The unhealthy impact on gamers was brought home to me very visibly at a recent show. I shall not say where, and I have blanked out faces to maintain confidentiality but this montage is NOT a good advert for the long term future of gaming. It has been said the hobby is dying and that observation may be literal as well as figurative. I certainly try to exercise more since returning home, leaving the car on the drive and walking to the village. Has anyone noticed the issue?

[image removed]
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: Vintage Wargaming on 20 September 2015, 04:11:15 PM: Catching the javelin and heading the shot might be more dangerous
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: nic-e on 20 September 2015, 04:22:41 PM: It's like anything, you need to do it in moderation. Sure, have a day painting with tea hooked into your veins, but maybe go for a walk, have a bike ride ect to balance it and you'll be fine.

The issue comes when to consider wargaming to be a vigorous counter to playing xbox.
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: grant on 20 September 2015, 04:35:10 PM: There's a famous Reddit thread dedicated to Magic tournament asscracks from morbidly obese players. A not too thin neckbeard created it - he was banned from the tournaments for some time. Imagine how many heart attacks happened during his off time.

Edit - thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/202wd3/i_participated_in_one_of_the_biggest_magic_the?

This is a sedentary hobby, but so is tv, movies, Xbox.

I don't watch much tv, I play movies while I paint, and I sold all my video game equipment some years ago. Surfing forums like this is the next most sedentary thing I do.

I do the step goal thing. 8-10000 a day, and 6-8km walked. Hit it most days.

Could still use a few pounds off though.
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: Cubs on 20 September 2015, 04:44:39 PM: Depends how long you spend doing it. I myself dedicate two evenings a week to rugby training, one evening to the gym and each Saturday to playing rugby. Okay, I'm a prop, so there's a little spare flesh here and there, but I'm as healthy as a (middle aged) horse.
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: tin shed gamer on 20 September 2015, 04:53:19 PM: I think a more concerning aspect is the concentration of individuals with an allergy to soap.No show at 10.30am in February should smell like gym locker room in high summer which has been buried in an avalanche of mil due .
The truth is I don't exercise half as much as I did four years ago,Going to the gym these days I'd be quite happy if they classed my fitness level as clinically dead. But at least my bitch bag I carry around shows has a can of deodorant in it.
Mark.
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: FramFramson on 20 September 2015, 05:22:33 PM: It's one of those chicken-and-egg questions, I find. Does the hobby encourage bad behaviour or did it attract people who were already trending that way? It's really not just wargaming in any case, it's gaming in more general terms - the stereotype of the morbidly obese fanboy is hardly limited to the tin soldiers crowd.

@ Grant, as a no-good wastrel and MTG player, I'm well-aware of ass-crack-man and the endless arguments he engendered. *groan*
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: nic-e on 20 September 2015, 05:27:23 PM: A rather portly fellow from our local store was on the tv show "first dates " last year. He apparently did quite well, but my friends and i were very confused considering we can't stand to be in a shop with him due to the frankly AWESOME smell (awesome in the religious sense, in that one is left in awe when confronted by it.)
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: harleyface on 20 September 2015, 05:38:50 PM: When im painting i have no hand free for smoking....
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: Gibby on 20 September 2015, 06:32:18 PM: A person's fitness and weight management shouldn't depend on their hobby being active. Sadly it does seem that many folk do go to wargames shows without having a shower first...
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: dadlamassu on 20 September 2015, 07:06:19 PM: I've also noticed the increasing girth of the gamers at conventions. Also the increasing number who have backpacks. I doubt that the two are necessarily related though a rucksack does hold a lot of Mars bars and cans of Coca-Cola!

On the few days I manage to spend on the hobby I break the day into sessions by walking the dog.
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: Tactalvanic on 20 September 2015, 07:41:01 PM: Quote from: Bezzo on 20 September 2015, 04:31:26 PM
Sadly being diabetic I cannot overindulge in the choccies and cake myself.

Darts used to be notorious for the rotundness of its players. It was a staple for comedy sketch shows. It seems to now have competitors that look a lot fitter than their predecessors. Perhaps wargaming will follow suit?

This - I have the diabetic restrictions also - such is life - not due to wargaming or weight issues..

Darts - still has rotund players in it.
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: Westfalia Chris on 20 September 2015, 08:42:25 PM: Allright, I've watched this thread from the start, and since it has a certain validity, I decided to leave it open for the time being. That said, I do not appreciate making fun of people, even anonymously, and have removed the OP image since it serves no proper purpose except illustrative, and is touchy from a privacy PoV.

Furthermore, some posts are veering close towards off-topic. Please keep this strictly on-topic and non-inflammatory, or we'll have to reconsider our decision.
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: frogimus on 20 September 2015, 09:06:42 PM: I am celiac (gluten intolerance) so that removes most grains from my diet. I am a caregiver for my parents, one of which is diabetic. This means I hardy ever ingest carbs. That, plus my fairly active job keeps me at a decent BMI.

OTOH, I hate sunlight so I probably do not get a healthy amount of sun exposure.

I do see the weight and cleanliness issues in gaming venues, but I see just as much at sporting events or other muggle venues.

IMO, sedentary lifestyles are pretty common everywhere and not tied so much to our niche hobby.
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: Legion1963 on 20 September 2015, 09:20:03 PM: Indeed. If my lifestyle is un-healthy it is not because of my gaming hobby. Over the course of several weeks or months i tend to build up to a period of gaming-hobby-creativity and then it is released in a quite intense stream of painting and terrain building and various other hobby related stuff like reading. When that sort peters out i will shift my focus to other stuff i like .... survival and outdoors pursuits are two of them. Usually winter time is mostly reserved for the gaming hobby and summers i spent mostly outdoors. Besides i do not have a car so i am quite active with walking and biking. On top of that i have fairly healthy and sober lifestyle to begin with. ;-)
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: starkadder on 20 September 2015, 09:42:26 PM: If Oz is any guide, it's an international phenomenon.

And despite a lot of cosplay effort it is mostly male.

I resumed playing some years ago. When I entered the first convention I had attended in over a decade, the wall of fug that hit me was powerful - the odour of wet labrador was intense. I am still not used to it. THe food made generally available at Oz conventions also does not help - chips, pies, battered meringues, fizzy drinks etc.

It's also a sedentary hobby. By its nature it offers a vicarious experience. I have seen people (with backpacks) incapable of anything beyond a casual walk describing the various terrific things they did. They are there in the moment and rather think they have slain the dragon or charged the Heavy Brigade. This is a way of living a life no more or less valid that a computer sim or MPORG.

The hobby itself is physically unhealthy. It is what the individual does beyond it that is important. I run a small farm and also have a pre-diabetic problem. My Beloved ensures that I get plenty of aerobic exercise, mostly around the needs of horses.
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: Dolmot on 20 September 2015, 09:44:52 PM: Wargaming cannot be the most unhealthy hobby of them all, because typically one or more of the participants must leave their house. In, say, PC gaming, there's no such requirement. And even in PC gaming, you're clicking more often than in channel surfing, which has been the #1 hobby of crowds for decades.

A long time ago I made a very intentional choice of never playing online games of any kind, because that would encourage staring some kind of screen essentially for every waking hour of my life. Conversely, board and miniature games require going somewhere and meeting people. Considering the lead content of my collection, it almost counts as exercise.

If you see people in a show, at least a tiny bit of physical activity has been involved. Then there are people you'll never see anywhere.
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: Vermis on 20 September 2015, 11:22:29 PM: By Crikey, that post by Scurv needs a 'like' or 'thumbs up' button or something on it. Bananas and onions FTW.

I've seen some chunky guys at gaming venues (sometimes when I pass a reflective surface) but I can't say I've noticed they make up an undue proportion, compared to the populace outside. For example, I've been going to a few agricultural shows over the summer too, and I've maybe seen a similar number of farmers (up at the crack, working outside all day) of that kind of shape.
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: frogimus on 20 September 2015, 11:24:42 PM: @Scurv: I completely agree regarding our diet in the US. After cutting gluten from my diet, I cannot eat at most restaurants nor can I use much prepackaged food at home. I eat nearly as much during a meal as most people in my vicinity, but I have settled to under my recommended BMI. mainly from fresh/frozen vegetables and healthy cooking methods.

As for walking; that is a great recommendation, but it is quite dangerous to do so here. I live a couple miles from the nearest sidewalk and attempting to walk on the roadway (even if pedestrians do have right of way) is extremely unsafe. Likewise for trying to use a bicycle.
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: tin shed gamer on 21 September 2015, 12:38:29 AM: A hobby is an amusement for the soul,nothing more .

To paraphrase a couple of East coast phrases ( Not the colonial east coast ) which I've uttered myself now I'm way past forty." I'm not over weight I'm expecting a harsh winter" ," only a boy carries a six pack and expects praise for his efforts,A real man carries a keg and doesn't care what anyone thinks" please not these are paraphrased and sanitised for public consumption as this is a port city,and the local versions may offend more delicate ears. ;)
I understand your reluctance to venture into the great outdoors . In this part of the world there's a lot of outward bound activities and movements.So people tend to look at you blankly if you don't .
Me and mine walk,shoot,and cycle.That said there's no real drama to be had,as the most dangerous thing your likely to come across can be milked.
I don't think the issue is how unhealthy you are,So much as how immersed into a subject do you have to become that basic life skills become redundant and health and personal hygiene fall by the way side,The truth is every hobby attracts and has its own version of these types of people.wether it's sports stats and history of there favourite club. Or trains.Its just some versions(rightly or wrongly ) are more socially acceptable To quote a famous Gent( if beauty is in the eye of the beholder ,then how come we can all agree upon on ugly when we see it)and that's what it boils down too is nobody wants to be labelled with the social stereotype that these people blindly for fill .Deep down we know it's socially a little odd grown men playing with toy soldiers.So these poor sods are like a beacon for social ridicule and we're going to be seen going into and coming out of the same building.
But there's nothing wrong with wanting to get home and only smell of your own sweat.Its human nature.Yes it does feel like the shows are full of people like this because you notice them more because they get in the way it's not malicious its human nature you note obstacles in your path and give no thought to clear routes,and in amongst a crowded gaming hall or convention these same people are often the ones with poor social skills and often subtle attempted to get by will go over their heads and your greeted with what appears to be a bloody mined pain in the Arsenal .Its wether you react with polite frustration or rage and malice. That defines you and your day,
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: zorg on 21 September 2015, 03:53:24 AM: Wargaming is sedentary, but I think many people have more than one hobby, or more than one activity they enjoy.

Personally, I love wargaming and boardgaming, but I still work out several times a week. Few gamers I know personally are overweight. In other words - as has been said - wargaming would appear not to be the cause of most cases of obesity. It looks like correlation, not causation to me.

There are fit gamers, they just might not be as noticeable (online or in real life).
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: HerbyF on 21 September 2015, 07:45:02 AM: Another aspect of the hobby that is very unhealthy is the figures we use. Although there has been much improvement over the years. An old gamer & friend of mine was told by his Dr. that he had to give up painting. He was one of the best & most prolific painter I know. He was getting lead poisoning from handling all those little lead figures.
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: dadlamassu on 21 September 2015, 02:48:48 PM: Quote from: HerbyF on 21 September 2015, 07:45:02 AM
Another aspect of the hobby that is very unhealthy is the figures we use. Although there has been much improvement over the years. An old gamer & friend of mine was told by his Dr. that he had to give up painting. He was one of the best & most prolific painter I know. He was getting lead poisoning from handling all those little lead figures.

How long ago was this? Lead was removed from paint and from model soldiers from the middle of the last century. I read an article about lead poisoning in New York many years ago. No cases were attributed to toy soldiers but (from memory) about a fifth had a direct link to work/attendance at shooting ranges and home casting bullets.

Anyway back to obesity and wargames. I doubt there is a causal link between playing wargames and obesity. Taking our club as an example - the over 60s are mostly reasonably active and none are obese. The under 30s are a mix of fit slim chaps through all variations to obese. However the 30s to 40s appear to be the group with the highest rate of obesity.

I have noticed a general trend towards obesity in almost all walks of life.
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: Harry Faversham on 21 September 2015, 09:17:04 PM: I'm a fat bastard not because of wargaming...
I'm a fat bastard thanks to the eight pints of Tetley's Best Bitter every night.

:-*
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: dadlamassu on 21 September 2015, 11:08:57 PM: Quote from: Scurv on 21 September 2015, 07:13:08 PM
The middle of last century?!? Lad the 90's was not that long ago! :D

Pyramid issue one or two in the 90's had an article on the upcoming lead ban. I remember the debate around it. I have tons of lead figs still and I am more than sure I am not the only one. As for actual lead poisoning it would be from filing and sanding the figures as that created a fine dust of lead.

Nice to be called a "Lad". But 1966 was in the middle. Pyramid was obviously out of date:

Quote from "Brief History of the Model Soldier"
1966 marked a turning point in the history of toy soldiers. International concerns about lead poisoning brought about new laws which banned the manufacture of toys containing lead.
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: dadlamassu on 21 September 2015, 11:22:11 PM: Looks like a confusion of which country/state was implementing the laws. Sorry. I remember the fuss in the 60s when the lead disappeared from "lead soldiers" in most of Europe. Price rises were forecast to end the hobby and figures would be too brittle etc etc. You could still make your own lead alloy figures using the moulds for sale for home casting for your own use.

Almost all my old tin soldiers also predate 1966 and have a high lead content.

Still nice to be called a "lad" at my age!
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: FramFramson on 22 September 2015, 01:40:17 AM: My understanding was that by the late 80's, the larger manufacturers were or had phased out lead in favour of white metal or similar and that most of the smaller types followed suit throughout the 90's. Obviously it's rare nowadays for a minis maker to make minis using lead, though it does still happen a little.
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: HerbyF on 22 September 2015, 03:08:31 AM: Many figure manufacturers still use some lead content. They can get around the ban by labeling. Just state on the packaging that the product is not a toy & may contain lead. The ban in the US only applies to toy intended for children. So in effect no ban really. BTW the friend had to give up figures in the early 90s. I still have many figures with lead content, very few of them were made before 1966.
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: Modhail on 22 September 2015, 06:45:20 AM: I don't think that's just our hobby, but society as a whole these days...
But maybe in the hobby it gets concealed less, I guess.
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: Mr Vampire on 22 September 2015, 07:51:11 AM: The disappointing truth is: stereotypes are more accurate than any of us would like to believe. No, they are not true of all individuals, but they are true for the majority of a subject group. Consider that stereotypes are formed through repeated observation by multiple observers, which is exactly the way scientists determine facts about the natural world. We can make some general statements about war gamers, or any other group, and go out and observe stereotypical behavior as fact with reasonable accuracy.

I'll apologies in advance for pushing political correctness aside here. As an Australian I have a stereotypical idea of how both American and British people are in general. So lets compare the UK Antique Roadshow to the US Antique Roadshow, comparing the overall reactions of the two groups in their native environment when they are told they have an item of great value. True to their stereotype we can observe most of the US group cheering and hi-fiving each other like predicted while the bulk of the UK group demonstrate the expected restrained and reserved reaction. Seriously, go compare the two programs. The serotype is not true for all individuals but holds truth for the majority of the subject group. (If you find that upsetting: different cultural groups behave differently and neither behavior is right or wrong, deal with it).

So yeah, the stereotype of the unhealthy asthmatic war gamer with lazy personal hygiene is true for the greater percentage of the community but not every individual. Just like the serotype of the football fan, the surfer, or the heroin addict.

Oh, and as for fitting any Australian serotypes, last time my In-laws visited from overseas I actually did take them for a twenty minute drive to where they could see kangaroos hop across the street.
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: Etranger on 22 September 2015, 11:27:40 AM: Serotype? must be something in the blood.... ;)

Most hobbies are fairly sedentary, but standing around a table is actually quite a healthy activity, hence the current push for the 'standing office'. There's also evidence that 'creative hobbies', into which wargaming falls, are good for delaying or preventing the development of dementia.
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: Mr Vampire on 22 September 2015, 12:00:02 PM: Quote from: Etranger on 22 September 2015, 11:27:40 AM
There's also evidence that 'creative hobbies', into which war gaming falls, are good for delaying or preventing the development of dementia.
I'm glad, can you imagine a room full of demented war gamers. o_o

And lol on the serotype comment.
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: Captain Blood on 22 September 2015, 01:03:10 PM: Statistically, hang-gliding and motorcycle racing are the most unhealthy hobbies around.

But this discussion is veering into potentially contentious topics like national stereotypes, and doesn't have a lot to do with the subject matter of the forum any more...
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: black hat miniatures on 22 September 2015, 01:57:43 PM: Quote from: HerbyF on 21 September 2015, 07:45:02 AM
Another aspect of the hobby that is very unhealthy is the figures we use. Although there has been much improvement over the years. An old gamer & friend of mine was told by his Dr. that he had to give up painting. He was one of the best & most prolific painter I know. He was getting lead poisoning from handling all those little lead figures.

It is impossible to get lead poisoning by handling figures - you have to ingest lead to get it into your system (or inhale the fumes).

The only person I ever heard about getting lead poisoning from figures smoked while filing his figures and ingested it that way.

Lots of manufacturers (myself included) still use lead/tin based alloys - they give a better flow, are softer and not as brittle as pewter.

Mike
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: cgh on 22 September 2015, 01:58:44 PM: It's not real wargaming but there are a lot of similarities here in a BBC report on fitness in chess players (and bridge but I can't stand that game).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34323643

Perhaps the top tourny players have the same mindset as the chess grandmasters?
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: Cubs on 25 September 2015, 09:02:44 AM: Re: lead ban, I was surprised to find (a couple of years back I think) that the long awaited lead ban didn't actually happen, at least in the UK. Yeah, I know, I thought it had, too. I was was convinced it had, I remembered all the hype.

Apparently there was a test case somewhere or other, where it was anticipated that lead would be banned from figures, but in the end the court ruled that they are not 'toys' but 'figurines'. As long as the age warning is used, to distinguish them from toys, it's fine for them to contain lead (a more mature owner not being likely to stick them in their gob presumably). Of course, by this time a lot of the manufacturers had already swapped over to lead-free metal in anticipation and just never went back.

This could also be the source of confusion with regards to the dates. Lead may have been banned from paint and toys, as opposed to figures.
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: black hat miniatures on 25 September 2015, 09:40:50 AM: Quote from: Cubs on 25 September 2015, 09:02:44 AM
Re: lead ban, I was surprised to find (a couple of years back I think) that the long awaited lead ban didn't actually happen, at least in the UK. Yeah, I know, I thought it had, too. I was was convinced it had, I remembered all the hype.

Apparently there was a test case somewhere or other, where it was anticipated that lead would be banned from figures, but in the end the court ruled that they are not 'toys' but 'figurines'. As long as the age warning is used, to distinguish them from toys, it's fine for them to contain lead (a more mature owner not being likely to stick them in their gob presumably). Of course, by this time a lot of the manufacturers had already swapped over to lead-free metal in anticipation and just never went back.

This could also be the source of confusion with regards to the dates. Lead may have been banned from paint and toys, as opposed to figures.

Actually, a large distributor on the East Coast in the USA stipulated tht they would only carry lead-free figures which forced a lot of the US manufacturers to change over...

Mike
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on 25 September 2015, 06:45:08 PM: Quote from: tin shed gamer on 20 September 2015, 04:53:19 PM
'an avalanche of mil due.'

'my bitch bag I carry around shows'

This opens at least one more can of worms. Should we take it that subnormal spelling is also attributable to the hobby, or are you actually as misogynistic as the last phrase suggests? Either way, this does little to advance the cause.
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: Silent Invader on 25 September 2015, 07:51:40 PM: Quote from: Andrew_McGuire on 25 September 2015, 06:45:08 PM
This opens at least one more can of worms. Should we take it that subnormal spelling is also attributable to the hobby, or are you actually as misogynistic as the last phrase suggests? Either way, this does little to advance the cause.

Seriously: an attack post?

Maybe TSG isn't so good with spelling but who are you to judge him on that and isn't 'bitch bag' just 'slang' for a tote bag (a large shopping bag)?
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: tin shed gamer on 25 September 2015, 07:55:17 PM: No just dyslexia,

I sculpt for a living and As a rule I attend at least eight shows a year and attend multiple museums to work on displays.In addition to war gaming clubs around the country .So I get to see the full gambit of the gaming community .
A bitch bag is a khaki term for a messenger style bag which holds personal items and equipment required for a day.I spent fifteen years in khaki before becoming a complex needs nurse ,teaching life skills to people with complex needs and behaviours.I ended my real world life teaching tracking skills to police forces.
So now sculpt and when requested advise on environmental mapping for offenders.(an unpleasant task which I try my best to avoid)
If you'd checked my posts you would have found I hide nothing everything is posted warts and all,including my spelling.
Bands of grown men playing with toys and being proud of it,does not constitute a cause,just a reason to head to the pub afterwards.
So if spending nearly thirty years of my life serving both my community and my country is misogynistic then I've no issue with it.
As for subnormal spelling it didn't seem to effect my ability to gain a Nursing degree ,or any other qualification I've achieved .
But a fair observation would be predictive text,and dyslexia don't always mix.
Mark.
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: Cubs on 25 September 2015, 08:16:33 PM: Quote from: black hat miniatures on 25 September 2015, 09:40:50 AM
Actually, a large distributor on the East Coast in the USA stipulated tht they would only carry lead-free figures which forced a lot of the US manufacturers to change over...

Mike

From Wiki -

"Traditionally, miniatures were cast in white metal, an alloy of lead and tin. A small amount of antimony was sometimes added to improve the alloy's ability to take fine detail. In 1993, the New York legislature introduced a bill outlawing lead in miniatures, citing public health concerns. Many miniature manufacturers, anticipating that other states would also impose bans, began making figures with lead-free alloys, often at increased price. After months of debate and protests by miniature manufacturers and enthusiasts, New York Governor Mario Cuomo signed a bill which exempted miniatures from the state's Public Health Law. Despite this, most American manufacturers continued to use non-lead alloys."

There we go, I knew I'd seen it somewhere.
Title: Re: Is wargaming the most unhealthy hobby around?
Post by: Westfalia Chris on 25 September 2015, 08:24:45 PM: Allright,

I think it is time for a breather. I'll lock the thread for the time being so everybody can calm down a bit and we'll see if we can re-open it at a later time.