Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Old West => Topic started by: Argonor on 23 September 2015, 01:20:48 PM
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I have more or less been without mojo since I returned home from our family vacation in Italy this summer; I have been making this or that purchase, and cleaned and based some of the minis purchased, but I didn't really have any plans about what to do next.
Then I stumbled on this thread http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=82110.0 and got a bit interested.
I dug out the old free versions of some THW rulesets I have been storing on my harddrive for quite some time, most notably an early draft of 6GS, which I printed out and began reading.
The rules had me baffled, not initially getting the Reaction System, but I asked Legionaire som questions about his take on the system and decided to read on.
I then browsed the THW store to find a newer version of 6GS, but, alas, it had been taken down for an overhaul.
Then I found High Moon: Dead Reckoning, which I sniffled around for a couple of days while reading new posts on the aforementioned thread, combined with re-reading the 6GS rules, and yesterday I bought the pdf version of HM:DR, and started reading it.
At first, I was taken back by the different damage system, but realizing that the Star Power rule allows the main characters much staying power (and the Free Will rule even more freedom than in (the old) 6GS), without the need for book-keeping (yay!), I kept reading.
I haven't finished reading the rules, but I have read far enough to decide that I like the system, and that it will probably cater for all my Old/Weird West needs for a while. I do like Fistful of Lead for hefty shootouts, but I felt that I would need something with a bit more RPG-feel to it, which the THW games seem to have in abundance.
So, now, while getting the rules under my skin, I am pondering about what I need to get for the game...
I just found my box with Old West minis, and, as far as I can tell, I have plenty of cowboys, gunslingers, and mexican banditos - on foot (mostly Artizan).
I think I'll need some mounted versions of the minis (or, at least, some mounted minis that can pass as mounted versions).
-> Can somebody please point me to a maker of nice mounted Old West models that go well with Artizan stuff?
I shall also be needing some civilians to go with the varios buildings I'll be getting (I'm going all-in on laser-cut mdf, now, as my un-insulated gaming attic does not go well with paper terrain (or the other way around), but there's plenty to pick from out there.
-> Apaches/Comanches and maybe plains indians - Artizan has a few Apaches, but, again no mounted ones. Please push me in the right direction!
-> Houses. Everyone knows what an Old West store looks like, but towns must have had residential houses, too? What type/shape of building should I look for, and how many (or few) should I put in a town (utility building/residential building ratio)?
I think that's all for now. Any help/suggestions, as always, most welcome!
LINKS:
Rules:
http://www.twohourwargames.com/himodere.html
http://www.hawgleg.com/paypal.asp
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/115828/Fistful-of-Lead
http://www.greatescapegames.co.uk/dead-mans-hand
http://www.gangfightgames.com/blackwater-gulch/
http://www.wargamesfoundry.com/books/wargames-rule-books/rules-no-name
http://www.erichotz.com/game_rules1.html
Wild West Buildings:
http://www.sarissa-precision.com/Old_West/cat1603369_2365906.aspx
http://knuckleduster.com/shop/index.php?route=product/category&path=1_31
http://www.productsforwargamers.com/wild_west_buildings.html
http://www.4ground.co.uk/american-legends-dead-mans-hand
http://www.wargame-buildings.com/old-west-deluxe-kits.html
http://www.wargame-buildings.com/blackwater-gulch.html
http://www.wargame-buildings.com/old-west-model-kits.html
http://blotz.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=23_29_30
http://www.greatescapegames.co.uk/deadmanshand.html
http://gcmini.mybigcommerce.com/28mm-wild-west-series/?sort=featured&page=1
South of the Border/Adobe:
http://www.sarissa-precision.com/South_of_the_Border/cat1603369_2110070.aspx
http://knuckleduster.com/shop/index.php?route=product/category&path=1_31_65
http://knuckleduster.com/shop/index.php?route=product/category&path=1_31&page=2
Creatures:
http://store.gangfightgames.com/blackwater-gulch/savage-beasts/
Western Zombies:
http://store.warlordgames.com/collections/french-indian-war-1754-1763/products/zombie-indians
http://www.wargamesfoundry.com/our-ranges/old-west/old-west-apache-collection-bcow018/
http://www.westwindproductions.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=204_222&products_id=1620 (Victorian)
http://www.hawgleg.com/paypal.asp
http://www.westwindproductions.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=2_87&products_id=360 (Victorian)
http://www.rapierminiatures.co.uk/page/Range/28mm_Tribal_Wars_Fantasy.html
Scarecrows:
http://www.rafm.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=RAF&Category_Code=SC
http://www.rapierminiatures.co.uk/page/Range/28mm_Fantasy.html
http://www.castingroomminiatures.com/collections/undead?page=2
Mounted/Dismounted:
http://www.oldgloryminiatures.com/products.asp?cat=444
Townsfolk:
http://www.castingroomminiatures.com/collections/victorians-edwardians
http://www.wargamesfoundry.com/our-ranges/old-west/old-west-town-aint-big-enough-collection-bcow009/
http://www.wargamesfoundry.com/our-ranges/old-west/old-west-city-slickers-collection-bcow011/
http://knuckleduster.com/shop/index.php?route=product/category&path=1_14_3
Interiors/props/scatter terrain:
http://ainstycastings.co.uk/index.php/cPath/47
http://knuckleduster.com/shop/index.php?route=product/category&path=1_14_4
http://www.frontlinewargaming.co.uk/
http://eurekamin.com.au/index.php?cPath=87_126_153_160&sort=3a
http://www.petitepropertiesltd.com/furniture.html
http://www.greatescapegames.co.uk/deadmanshand.html
Gold Fever:
http://ainstycastings.co.uk/index.php/cPath/38/sort/2a/page/1
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Hi.
Nice to have another one get started an Old West topic 8)
-> Apaches/Comanches and maybe plains indians - Artizan has a few Apaches, but, again no mounted ones. Please push me in the right direction!
In lack of nice Comanche Warriors I made some myself by using one of those Woodland Indian Sprues Wargames factory is selling. You need some Greenstuff and of course some Bows (I used the ones of Plastic Skelettons) but I like how the models came up:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=80741.0
-> Houses. Everyone knows what an Old West store looks like, but towns must have had residential houses, too? What type/shape of building should I look for, and how many (or few) should I put in a town (utility building/residential building ratio)?
As far as I know shop-owners mostly lived in their shops. Normally the upper floor was used as a flat whilst the ground floor has been the salesroom. In smaller stores there were small living rooms in the back of the salesroom. Maybe some shopkeepers lived in small shacks (laundry workers and so on).
I think it depends on the size of your town. For medium to big towns I would suggest to use anything you like: 2 storey houses that combine Salesroom and Flat, small shacks or even single storay houses. I mix up different houses for my Old West gaming table, mostly because I like the variety of different house types.
Smaller towns would look more realisitc if you make use of many shacks and single storey houses (so the shopkeepers would live in external housings).
Maybe you should make your choice of residental buildings conditional on the Saloon you're going to use. If you want to use a big one (as selled by most MDF-Creators) I would suggest 2 storey houses. Otherwise the big Saloon would look a little bit out of place, wouldn't it?
Greetings :)
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Just looked through your thread; very interesting!
I just came across the Comanches in the Warlord store; although rather expensive, I shall not need them in droves for this project, so I think I'm sorted.
Regarding houses, yes, I guess most shop-owners would live in the shop building, but a town must have some sort of labour-force; people working for the larger shops, the sawmill (if any), at the train station, in the saloon(s), etc., and some of them must have been living in smaller houses/huts/shacks of their own (while other hirelings/day laborers would probably bunk in some kind of cheap 'hostels'), but I have not been able to find more than one 'shack' (Sarissa), and repeatedly using the same model is going to look odd, so I am hoping that someone can point me to some other small buildings fit for a frontier town or boomtown.
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As far as I know shop-owners mostly lived in their shops. Normally the upper floor was used as a flat whilst the ground floor has been the salesroom. In smaller stores there were small living rooms in the back of the salesroom. Maybe some shopkeepers lived in small shacks (laundry workers and so on).
I think this is exactly right. However an occasional residential house makes sense. I, for example, use 4Grounds Settler's Cabin as a doctors office/home. You might use one or two of these on the edge of town and while I have not done so yet you may want to paint it white.
The more common building would be a ranch house outside of town. I am also trying to decide what to use for that setting. I have spent all my time putting together my Town but that is next on my list.
As far as mounted figures there are two options but I am not sure how they would match up with your artizan Figs. Old Glory Miniatures sells matching sets of mounted and dismounted models as does Foundry Old West Miniatures. I also have used Foundry and Old Glory for my Apache's.
Looking forward to seeing your project come together.
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As far as mounted figures there are two options but I am not sure how they would match up with your artizan Figs. Old Glory Miniatures sells matching sets of mounted and dismounted models as does Foundry Old West Miniatures. I also have used Foundry and Old Glory for my Apache's.
I think I'll be using Foundry matching sets for the main characters (I don't see the Old Glory sets in their stores, but I found some mounted guys at Knuckleduster, but some of the horses are... well... odd), and then use my Artizan footsies as extras.
Settlers' cabins may be closest thing available right now, apart from the Sarissa shack, so I'll have a closer look at those, thanks.
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For cabins I build most of mine from stray sticks and bamboo cooking skewers. Most period cabins were small and short with gaps in the walls and holes in the roof. A small window or two would be sufficient for light.
A ratio of 1 residence, be it shack, cabin, or tent, per business is about right for a young town.
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First of all, glad I could give you some inspiration to get your project going again. Should have one or two episodes done next week so will keep you notified :D.
I have been meaning to get some native Indians for my project, but for one reason or another I have not done so. Putting it down on my ever growing list.
Think the Foundry ones will do well for foot/ mounted, you probably only need a small amount. I have a couple of their mounted ones and they seem to go well with Artizan.
As for the MDF buildings, I am not too bothered about the actual 1 or 2 story houses/shops, as long as I have buildings that look nice to put on the table, I have some resin interiors that make a lot of difference I think (mostly Frontline Wargames, which is reasonably priced and he's a nice chap). 'Need' a stable/ livery and a church and some other bits of course lol.
Shall get the High Moon rules myself on Friday and look for inspiration, thanks a lot for the heads up as I was unawares that they existed!!!!
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For cabins I build most of mine from stray sticks and bamboo cooking skewers. Most period cabins were small and short with gaps in the walls and holes in the roof. A small window or two would be sufficient for light.
A ratio of 1 residence, be it shack, cabin, or tent, per business is about right for a young town.
Yes, tents, of course! I have the Whitewash City set with boomtown tents, some of them big with stoves inside.
I don't think I'll go the full 1:1 ratio, but I'll need some 'fillers' to avoid the 'two rows of stores' look.
Unfortunately, I'm not much of a builder, so I'll have to do with whatever models I can find out there...
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I think if you give it more study, you'll find plenty of private residences in and near most old west towns. As I often argue, the Hollywood version of the old west is based more on budget and cinematic story telling needs than on the real world. A simple case in point, Bodie, California - a "living" ghost town. Sure, plenty of 'town' buildings but also just as many or more stand alone homes. I have, in my long delayed town project, quite a few houses of several different sizes to represent the varying strata of society. Of course, I work in 15 mm so have more room for more structures in my town than those of you seduced by the steroidially large 28 mm figures. 8)
Oh, I should say I live in the Old West, California, with many surviving gold rush era towns within easy driving distance - and have visited many of them. Main street generally looks like the Hollywood norm but make a turn and go "around back" and you are almost always immediately in a residential neighborhood. (I do make mental adjustments for the changes of time but that still leaves substantial residential numbers.)
Now, here's a thought for you - when does the Old West end? Might surprise many of you that in some places it continues into the 1920s in many ways.
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While log cabins and ranch buildings were fine there were, actually a fair number of residences as pointed out by Fifteensaway. Here are some pictures of some possibilities, these were houses you could literally buy through the Sears Catalog.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-LKYxGfwnyN0/VgP4xgagbXI/AAAAAAAAZj8/xjxZawn1Gzw/s600-Ic42/5903%252520reese%252520ho.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-xRmzl-tP1VM/VgP4xs9HUmI/AAAAAAAAZkA/i7ggKoX_otk/s450-Ic42/5906%252520joe.jpg)
Both of these should be pretty recognizable. The pictures are of plastic kits produced by Grandt Line and are HO scale (1/87). The set of three would be quite common and are often referred to as miner shacks.
There is a third type that I couldn't really find any of good pictures of known as shotgun houses. These are narrow long narrow houses, typically no more than about 10' wide and upwards of 40' long. Front door would be on the narrow end facing the street with the front door. It would be divided up into rooms with no hallways and you would literally go through each room to get to the back of the house. Shotgun house because you could fire a shotgun through the front and hit everything from the front to the back. And yes, our mobile homes greatly resemble the infamous shotgun shack.
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Now, here's a thought for you - when does the Old West end? Might surprise many of you that in some places it continues into the 1920s in many ways.
That's actually why I chose to start collecting Old West buildings before modern ones; they can be used for Pulp gaming as well!
There is a third type that I couldn't really find any of good pictures of known as shotgun houses. These are narrow long narrow houses, typically no more than about 10' wide and upwards of 40' long. Front door would be on the narrow end facing the street with the front door. It would be divided up into rooms with no hallways and you would literally go through each room to get to the back of the house. Shotgun house because you could fire a shotgun through the front and hit everything from the front to the back. And yes, our mobile homes greatly resemble the infamous shotgun shack.
Sally 4th does a 28mm shotgun shack:
http://wargamesbuildings.co.uk/epages/950003459.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/950003459/Products/28U_001
The text says: This style of housing was the most popular style of house to be built in the Southern United States from the end of the ACW to the 1920s
- So I could also use some of those for an Old West town?
I guess that the Sarissa shack (http://www.sarissa-precision.com/Shack/p1603368_12087040.aspx) could be modified to a version without the porch/awning, and that I could use some of the 'North American' (http://www.sarissa-precision.com/North_American/cat1603369_2307813.aspx) houses, too?
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Knuckleduster sells a line of shacks from Tri City that are serviceable. But they aren't MDF, they are thin plywood, and no interior details at all. Not sure if that is an issue for you or not. Plus, they are stateside, so that is most likely a consideration as well.
http://knuckleduster.com/shop/index.php?route=product/category&path=1_31
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Knuckleduster sells a line of shacks from Tri City that are serviceable. But they aren't MDF, they are thin plywood, and no interior details at all. Not sure if that is an issue for you or not. Plus, they are stateside, so that is most likely a consideration as well.
http://knuckleduster.com/shop/index.php?route=product/category&path=1_31
I definitely prefer buildings with some interior detail, but as fillers, these might be usable.
EDIT:
Took a quick look at the link, and I think they would be fine. As long as the roofs are removable, they can be outfitted as needed on the inside! :)
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I definitely prefer buildings with some interior detail, but as fillers, these might be usable.
EDIT:
Took a quick look at the link, and I think they would be fine. As long as the roofs are removable, they can be outfitted as needed on the inside! :)
Roofs are removable, and the assemble VERY quickly. Like 10-15 minutes per building. Not including glue drying time, of course.
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Those Knuckleduster buildings look quite interesting (especially the Saloon :o :o :o )!
Why haven't I noticed them earlier?! Now it is too late to add them to my order :D
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Niels, try these OW buildings.
They mix well with Sarissa, gives more variety and they are cheap.
http://www.productsforwargamers.com/wild_west_buildings.html
I have 2 and within some time i will order a few more.
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Niels, try these OW buildings.
They mix well with Sarissa, gives more variety and they are cheap.
http://www.productsforwargamers.com/wild_west_buildings.html
I have 2 and within some time i will order a few more.
Do those have access to interiors?
I seem to be spoiled for choices lol
I just ordered my first batch of buildings from Sarissa, and I think I'll try to get a small test-game of High Moon up and running soon, with my existing Whitewash City buidlings (if they are not all warped up from sitting in a box in the garage attic, that is).
Too little darn time... o_o
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Yes you can leave the roof without glue so you can put interiors.
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Yes you can leave the roof without glue so you can put interiors.
OK, definitely one more possibility for variation!
I have the feeling that my collection will slowly grow out of bounds, as I probably will want to add a new version of a specific shop/saloon/office type from time to time, to really create the impression of new locales for the player(s).
Just had to purchase a new printer, as the old one gave up, and I think I'll break it in by printing some Whitewash City boomtown tents, so I can set my adventures on the fringe of civilization.
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I have now purchased the High Moon rules, as you so wisely spotted and will 'cannibalise' them for ideas and alternative rules for my setting.
Looking very much forward to see your efforts and ideas :).
Also, due to being off from work this week, I hope to get my TWO planned episodes of Twilight Trail done lol.
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I have now purchased the High Moon rules, as you so wisely spotted and will 'cannibalise' them for ideas and alternative rules for my setting.
Looking very much forward to see your efforts and ideas :).
Also, due to being off from work this week, I hope to get my TWO planned episodes of Twilight Trail done lol.
I am definitely going to use them. Not sure if I go all the way on the magic, but even for 'historical' Hollywood games, the core system is much more solid than the old free version of 6GS that I have.
I feel DM could have more rules for various types of creatures (remember the Tumblebleed from Deadlands?), but I guess, the system is sufficiently flexible to allow for home-made monsters.
And the more I read the Reaction System rules, the more I like them; I think they could give just that intense exchange of hot lead that is so difficult to re-create on the tabletop.
Well, have been trying to get in touch with my gaming buddy, awaiting his response...
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I am definitely going to use them. Not sure if I go all the way on the magic, but even for 'historical' Hollywood games, the core system is much more solid than the old free version of 6GS that I have.
I feel DM could have more rules for various types of creatures (remember the Tumblebleed from Deadlands?), but I guess, the system is sufficiently flexible to allow for home-made monsters.
And the more I read the Reaction System rules, the more I like them; I think they could give just that intense exchange of hot lead that is so difficult to re-create on the tabletop.
Well, have been trying to get in touch with my gaming buddy, awaiting his response...
Because I am using a Weird West setting, the magic system is probably the part I will lift out of the rules and use. I was mucking about with homebrew rules for that before I became aware of these rules, so they will probably save me some time!
Personally, I make up the monsters as I go along, because as you say, the system is very flexible and I find it easy to 'stat' them up with very little effort. I usually give them special abilities (the Wendigo had increased movement, the spiders worked better in groups, the big spider could shoot webs...).
What I probably like the best with the Reaction System, is that in most games you have absolute control over your figures, but not here. You might like to take a shot at the guy across the street that just walked into your line of sight, but he's faster on the draw and even though he doesn't hit you, the bullets are too close for comfort so unheroically you have to dive behind the outhouse without even discharging your sixshooter lol!!!
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So, first batch of Sarissa buildings confirmed en route, so next questions:
Scatter terrain.
Boxes/crates, barrels, coffins, watering troughs.
Where to buy in bulk for a decent buck?
And how do I make passable tumbleweeds? I think I asked this question couple of years ago, but I don't remember if I got a usable answer, then... :?
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Just received my small Sarissa town in the mail today!
I assembled most of the shack before lunch, then left it to dry while eating, and then picking up a couple of trailer loads of soil from the local recycling station, so I didn't get back to Building today.
I now realize, though, that I am going to need various bits and bobs for the 'entrails' of my Buildings... o_o
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Am getting a bit of work done:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7JUISnFK2Ls/VhLXF1JnwtI/AAAAAAAAEYE/zCxdPDNXbrU/s400/2015_10_05-Old_West_Sarissa_WIP-01-600.JPG)
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Interesting start.
I am very curious to see the finished sarissa buildings!
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The shack in the picture is fully assembled, and it wil probably see some gaming before getting a lick of paint.
There will be some wip pics on my blog this evening or tomorrow, and I'll probably have pics of 4 finished buildings to post here, too.
My plan is to get a small town built to start gaming with the few Old West minis I have got painted - then I'll attend to the owner, the interior, and the facade one building at a time, before getting a few feature buildings (bank, hotel, large saloon, etc.).
This should evolve into a long-term project with small add-ons now and then in between playing campaign games. Well, that's the plan at least...
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So, here's my progress so far:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Fm3QB2qaY24/VhQwgCIk1uI/AAAAAAAAEZ4/Q1wthQ1NO5U/s640/2015_10_06-Sarissa_Old_West_Finished_4-1-600.JPG)
I wrote up a full WIP on my blog, if anyone should be interested in my musings.
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I look forward to seeing what you do with them.
They really are a good basis to build upon in this genre.
A little imagination and effort and you should have a cracking town on the go there.
:)
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I think they'll do fine for their purpose. First few games will probably be with the buildings just as they stand in the naked mdf, but then I should have gotten and painted some 'innards' and 'shopkeepers' for some of them.
I'm starting out small and slow, just like Legionnaire in his Twilight Trail campaign, as I think that's the way to go for keeping up steam; get gaming with the stuff, add more detail and paint in between games.
I have an idea of making paper inserts for the facade signs to begin with - that way I can re-purpose buildings until I've got a larger collection.
Right now I aim for making the shack into a doctor's house, and the longest of the buildings a bunk house, while another building I just completed today will serve as a small saloon/bar. Just have to get and paint some stuff from the manufacturers I've listed. Well, after returning from our family trip to London, that is...
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Next couple of buildings - built in one go today!
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-J9SPvpb724I/VhUoVOu0WXI/AAAAAAAAEac/gd57ez2M6bI/s640/2015_10_07-Sarissa_Old_West_Buildings-1-600.JPG)
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Almost done with this batch, only need to glue the cell bars, and the front sign, in place
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-d6oI_jWJZTk/VhbSnoOQgPI/AAAAAAAAEa8/M_WxRiGZh9Q/s640/2015_10_08-Sarissa_Sheriff-1-600.JPG)
A short family trip to London in the charts, now, then onto playing a game or two, and getting some furniture/props/scatter terrain, etc.
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Well, got some minis out and tried some situations from the High Moon rulebook
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-19Py5tCHipk/ViQB4s4EE7I/AAAAAAAAEb8/75GGx2Qh5AE/s640/2015_10_18-HMDR_01-02-600.JPG)
Session ended with my gaming buddy generating a character and choosing some models (mounted and dismounted) to represent him.
Project now goes into next phase: Preparing the first encounter.
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Not a whole lot of shiny Progress, but I received my Foundry order yesterday, so I can now start prepping the minis for my gaming buddy's character (foot and mounted). He is going to paint them up himself, which means I can concentrate on getting the cast for the first encounter ready for the table (although the newly announced Weird Wars Painting Club will take up some of my time in the foreseeable future).
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Nice update Niels.
Your town its getting bigger.
That sheriffs office is in my next Sarissa purchase. ;)
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Been quiet for a while - lots of RL stuff to deal with lately - but now the first lead character of our upcoming High Moon campaign is ready to take some primer.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8enmd5YLfKg/VlSICQyuaaI/AAAAAAAAEeQ/F74fVhxBrHY/s640/2015_11_23-WF_US_Cavalryman_WIP-01-600.JPG)
Duregar/Ulolkish is going to paint these, as they are meant to represent his character (and horse), while I get some of the extras ready for the first scenario...
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Nice thread, just ran through it real quick - Sarissa buildings? Nice town you have there... :)
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Thanks, project is stalling a bit atm, though - as real life and x-mas preps (i.e. tidying up all my clutter) + a bad cold are draining my energy and motivation.
The buildings are Sarissa, yes, and I hope to get some of them painted up, somewhen next year...
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I think if you give it more study, you'll find plenty of private residences in and near most old west towns. As I often argue, the Hollywood version of the old west is based more on budget and cinematic story telling needs than on the real world. A simple case in point, Bodie, California - a "living" ghost town. Sure, plenty of 'town' buildings but also just as many or more stand alone homes. I have, in my long delayed town project, quite a few houses of several different sizes to represent the varying strata of society. Of course, I work in 15 mm so have more room for more structures in my town than those of you seduced by the steroidially large 28 mm figures. 8)
Oh, I should say I live in the Old West, California, with many surviving gold rush era towns within easy driving distance - and have visited many of them. Main street generally looks like the Hollywood norm but make a turn and go "around back" and you are almost always immediately in a residential neighborhood. (I do make mental adjustments for the changes of time but that still leaves substantial residential numbers.)
Now, here's a thought for you - when does the Old West end? Might surprise many of you that in some places it continues into the 1920s in many ways.
Sorry to bring up an old post and hijack the thread ,But that's interesting to me ,I have been wanting a Wild West steampunk/sci fi style and that will help tie in some later technology like vehicles :)