Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => VSF Adventures => Topic started by: JollyBob on 11 November 2008, 10:36:35 AM
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I'm seriously thinking about this as a project for next year, but would appreciate some reviews of the rules and figures. (I expect I'll never play the game, but I like to have rules so I can design and build forces to paint that won't look stupid.)
I'm going to the York show in February, so will most likely pick up a bunch of stuff there, but I would like to know what other people think of the game, especially as I've never painted 15/18mm figs before.
And, what about scenery? I've been looking at 15mm Egyptian and other ancient stuff, or adobe buildings for the colonists, but does anyone have any other ideas, and manufacturers to recommend?
Will the figures fit in with other ranges, and which ones? 18mm seems an odd scale to me, but I'm guessing there are other manufacturers out there that will fit if I want to expand into other colonial powers.
Thanks all!
Oh, and please, please, nobody try to sell me anything just yet. You've ruined me with Celts already this month. I am weak, and easily led - just ask Commander Vyper. I can't spend anything on this till New Year at the earliest. :'(
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I only have the character pack from Black Hat, although my first battalion of Martian infantry is apparently winging its way through the UK postal system as I type. Anyway, the character figures are slim 18mm figures. They are not chunky at all and would look positively Size 0 beside Essex or Irregular 15mms. Unless someone else gets there first, I shall try to take a photo of them next to some other 15s from my collection. I don't have any of them painted yet, but I reckon they should be very quick and easy to paint up. I am using them for a Soldier's Companion game that we are planning since I could not persuade my regular opponent to opt for the 10mm game that I wanted to do; I already have a 10mm Danish army, as mentioned in another thread.
I have also considered getting the Martian Empires rules but am trying to keep my rules junky tendencies in check at the moment.
In my brief experience, I have found Black Hat's mail order and customer service to be very good. My first order was sent to me by return of post. For my second order I wanted a specific mix in the Martians with guns packs so I emailed BH about it. They responded quickly that they were willing to make the packs up to my requirements. I ordered it last Friday and quickly received the email to say that it was being processed. Then yesterday I received an email to say that it had been dispatched. I now await the arrival of the new figures eagerly and do not anticipate any problems, unlike with my BTD order of three months ago (I am still waiting for the rest of the order and am considering legal action even though the outstanding amount is a pitifully low sum).
Hope this helps,
Ruarigh
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15mm/18mm you say! heretic I cry :o
I have seen some painted a lad at the club has them for HOTT and they look very nice.
18mm I wonder if these were sculpted by the Eureka Guy, which co-incidently produce Crimea in that range so could be another option for alternative nations etc ;)
I havent painted 15mm for a long while, I still have some 10mm waiting to be painted. It needs a different technique and you need to resist the temptation to paint them like 28mm as it will drive you mad ;D
Thought to be honest JB form the examples of your painting skill I saw at BLAM I think you would be able to paint anything (you talented sod)
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I saw the greens and thought them very interesting but never took any further notice because of the scale.
18mm makes total sense as a stand alone but I was never going to start with another scale.
Have you been reducing the Commanders pile more than mine then? - shame on you.
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And, what about scenery? I've been looking at 15mm Egyptian and other ancient stuff, or adobe buildings for the colonists, but does anyone have any other ideas, and manufacturers to recommend?
Corrugated iron is the way forward for colonial stuff. It was hugely popular in the Victorian era and was the equivalent of modern Ikea flat-pack furniture. I had to do some research on it when recording a corrugated iron church one time and was impressed by how useful it was. The church I recorded was actually sent out as a flat-pack construction kit. My background reading identified a corrugated iron palace that was sent out to Africa (or was it South America) for one of the local potentates. I see no reason why the colonial Brits on Mars would not have imported their own flat-pack wriggly tin structures.
For other buildings, Space 1889 has some excellent ideas for Martian structures. Alternatively, you can just go wild with imaginative ideas based around your own conceptions of what Martians should be like. I suggest reading lots of Edgar Rice Burroughs for inspiration. A number of his Barsoomian novels are available as free downloads from Project Gutenberg.
Will the figures fit in with other ranges, and which ones? 18mm seems an odd scale to me, but I'm guessing there are other manufacturers out there that will fit if I want to expand into other colonial powers.
18mm Martians will fit in with most 15mm ranges imo. If they are significantly taller than the 15mm figures then it is because of Mars' lighter gravity; Martians are significantly taller as a result of this low gravity.
15mm/18mm you say! heretic I cry
Nah, 15mm is the next best thing to 6mm, which is the one true scale! Actually, I find 15mm to be the best compromise scale. We opted for it because we wanted to play larger games with 100 or more figures a side but could not afford the expense of 28mm. The figures are large enough to use for skirmishing but cheap enough to use for massed battles. The perfect compromise!
Cheers,
Ruarigh
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Thanks for the replies everyone. Some very useful info there. :)
I did think they looked quite slender compared to 15mm stuff, more in proportion with 20mm/1:72 figures really. And yes, those Eureka ones Lowtardog mentioned had already caught my eye too. Would they not be too early for Martian nonsense though? I always imagined the conquest of Mars to be later, 1890 or so. I guess some of the Frenchies would work for Foreign Legion types. Who else would they send to colonise the Red Planet after all? lol
@ Ruarigh: Yeah, I have plenty of ERB's books, some also on CD to listen to for inspiration as I paint. That's kind of what prompted this, actually.
And corrugated iron is a new twist, thanks for that.
Have you been reducing the Commanders pile more than mine then? - shame on you.
I wouldn't cheat on you, honest!
Vyper just has an unnerving habit of talking me into needing a certain figure, or group, or doing a particular conversion... Sod. :D
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And corrugated iron is a new twist, thanks for that.
Vyper just has an unnerving habit of talking me into needing a certain figure, or group, or doing a particular conversion... Sod. :D
Sir JB, you "need" some beautiful new Mexican figures as well to expand your horizons into early American west gaming.... ;) :D
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You are a very bad man, and I'm telling Mrs Malamute what you said about that barwench.
That doesn't mean I won't buy any though....
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You are a very bad man, and I'm telling Mrs Malamute what you said about that barwench.
That doesn't mean I won't buy any though....
Oops, I had forgotten that remark, damnation, these things always come back to haunt you in the end :o,
Did I mention the special discount policy for friends of Malamute ;)
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I am absolutely loving the twists and turns of this thread. :-* Full marks to Malamute for turning it into a sales pitch for his own miniatures which are actually so good he need'nt actually bother :-*. MerryRobert - you should not have revealed the true extent of your lead addiction and weak resolve -I for one look forward to assisting you in extending your collections in the future :D - again.
(Only so I can get some bloody Mexicans I don't need myself of course. ::) )
Come the new year your Black Hat order should be enormous though. Starting planning it this early will give you far too much time to keep adding "another unit" of this and that.
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I've played the rules. They are a variant of the Warmaster rules and, as such, work well. My only initial concerns were on the points cost of the tanks vs their effectiveness but I played before publication and only had one game so my fears may be either groundless or addressed in the current edition.
On the positive side, every type of Martian is catered for and the colonial troops are well represented too. The setting is fantastic, allowing one to indulge in both Pulp and Colonial wargaming fetishes. I don't think you can go wrong.
The rules book itself is well put together and looks wonderful which never hurts either. I'll get around to doing this at some point but not in 18mm of course :D I have decided that VSF is the way to allow me to indulge my 'British in the Crimea' passion without having to paint a load of Russian canon fodder.
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I am absolutely loving the twists and turns of this thread. :-* Full marks to Malamute for turning it into a sales pitch for his own miniatures which are actually so good he need'nt actually bother :-*. MerryRobert - you should not have revealed the true extent of your lead addiction and weak resolve -I for one look forward to assisting you in extending your collections in the future :D - again.
(Only so I can get some bloody Mexicans I don't need myself of course.
lol lol lol lol
Come the new year your Black Hat order should be enormous though. Starting planning it this early will give you far too much time to keep adding "another unit" of this and that.
Quite right and perhaps we can talk him into extending his plans to do VSF in 28mm as well. Then he can join us at next Years BLAM and field his own regiments. What a splendid idea. ;) :D
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The figures are very nice. Though the four armed martians aren't my favorite version, they are very well done.
The rules like Matakishi said is a variant of Warmaster, but with fire factors instead of attack/shooting dice. It should probably be considered a VSF Warmaster instead of just wars on mars because there are four lists for european powers and most contraptions are represented with suggestions on how to make huge vehicles like Aeronefs work in the game. (And I hear from his seller in the states that he's thinking about making martian battleships.)
I bought the characters, a couple of scout fliers, and half of the minimum required units for the red martian faction so far. It doesn't seem like a cheap game as you need something like four units of 6 bases each of infantry and two units of six bases each of cavalry as the minimum for the red martians and tribal martian armies for each thousand points. The figures are worth it though if it's something you want to get into.
The rules were close to a dollar a page for me though. I think it's worth it as I'm a fan of pretty much anything warmaster. :)
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Ok, just got home. Hooray for Black Hat; my figures were waiting on the doorstep. Anyway, I grabbed some 15mm figs I had lying around and snapped a shot that ought to give an idea of relative height. I apologise for my poor camera skills but here goes:
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z263/Ruarigh/BHFig.jpg)
Left to Right: Peter Pig, Freikorps, Laserburn, Black Hat, Essex, Flames of War
The BH Martians don't seem as tall when stacked up next to the other figures. I think the general impression of height is caused by them being quite slim.
Regarding corrugated iron, I just did a quick search online since I can't be bothered trying to find my old report in the roof space and came across this gem:
http://www.corrugated-iron-club.info/ (http://www.corrugated-iron-club.info/)
and also this article on it:
http://www.ihbc.org.uk/context_archive/44/Corriron_dir/Corriron_s.htm (http://www.ihbc.org.uk/context_archive/44/Corriron_dir/Corriron_s.htm)
I hope these inspire some alternative colonial structures.
Hope this helps,
Ruarigh
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Come the new year your Black Hat order should be enormous though. Starting planning it this early will give you far too much time to keep adding "another unit" of this and that.
Quite right and perhaps we can talk him into extending his plans to do VSF in 28mm as well. Then he can join us at next Years BLAM and field his own regiments. What a splendid idea. ;) :D
I'd already considered it. ;D And you aren't helping. In the words of Greg the Golden Retriever, "my wife's gonna kill me..."
Yeah, my shopping list for Vapnartak is getting out of hand already. I feel like one of those snotty 'orrible kids that won't get off Santa's knee at the department store. "..an I wanna bike annna kung-fu grip Col. Bastard annna space shuttle annna frogman suit anna..."
@ Ruarigh: Thanks for the picture and the links, that is really helpful. The Freikorps ones look like a good match for height and bulk but this is a new venture for me so I don't know if they do anything more suitable than the figure shown. I'll have a scout about though. Gives me ideass to work from. :)
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@ Ruarigh: Thanks for the picture and the links, that is really helpful. The Freikorps ones look like a good match for height and bulk but this is a new venture for me so I don't know if they do anything more suitable than the figure shown. I'll have a scout about though. Gives me ideass to work from. :)
Pleased to be of service. In the picture, the Freikorps figure is a Russian Seven Years War figure that is part of a stalled project. You could try Space 1779 I suppose. It might be fun.
Although I am working on the Martians for the time being, I plan to expand into the Piedmontese space effort after that using the Freikorps Piedmontese for the 1859 war. A few head swaps using the Peter Pig heads and some judicious use of other ranges to provide the necessary mitrailleuse from their French allies should leave me in just the right position to kick the Brits out of Syrtis Major! Of course, although the core of the force will be Piedmontese the rest of the force will be Martian askaris and Martian mercenaries. After that, I think I shall need to turn to the Danish efforts to conquer Venus, which will also give me the excuse I need to buy lots of lizard men. :)
Cheers,
Ruarigh
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What the hell, man? I've just spent a most frustrating hour trawling the net for suitable figures, and it appears that hardly any 15mm manufacturers have pictures of their products on their sites.
Cos I'm gonna buy somehing I can't see. Sure I am. Are these people for real? >:(
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They are trying to help you just like Malamute and myself.
Obviously, if you were looking for 28mm VSF miniatures you would find that the ranges are more than adequately illustrated and will fall effortlessly into your shopping cart. ;)
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They are trying to help you just like Malamute and myself.
Obviously, if you were looking for 28mm VSF miniatures you would find that the ranges are more than adequately illustrated and will fall effortlessly into your shopping cart. ;)
And all the ranges categorised for your viewing pleasure right here on this very forum. We exist solely for the purpose of providing you with all the necessary information to make an informed purchase. Gosh we are a helpful bunch, the warmth of human kindness personified... :D ;)
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You aren't fooling anyone you know. And stop ganging up on me!
But I must admit, I'm getting tempted back towards 28mm just because I can see what I'd be buying.
I dunno, something about the idea of massed battles of tiny Martians really appeals, but if it's this hard to find stuff, I might just not bother.
Conversely of course, I might do both. :D
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"Conversely of course, I might do both"
Said in the true spirit of a true Laf'er. Good man.
But don't forget - masses of Mexicans on Mars would be so fantastic and unique :o :o
Who's to say Martians are not only 4 foot tall anyway?
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You aren't fooling anyone you know. And stop ganging up on me!
But I must admit, I'm getting tempted back towards 28mm just because I can see what I'd be buying.
I dunno, something about the idea of massed battles of tiny Martians really appeals, but if it's this hard to find stuff, I might just not bother.
Conversely of course, I might do both. :D
Ganging up on you, we wouldn't dream of doing that. lol
In all sincerety the Black Hat Martians are lovely, but the Parroom Station ones in 28mm are even nicer and quite reasonably priced too. You would n't need vast numbers to produce a decent army.
If you concentrated on the martian army first, you have will have plenty of opponents around here with Human colonial armies to oppose you. :)
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Hmmm. Been looking at the Parroom Station stuff recently too. I'm always a bit put off ordering from them as I find their website quite confusing. I take it they don't have any UK or European suppliers that would be easier to get their kit from?
And Bronze Age, been looking at them too. And drooling.
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I think there is some on the this forum that is trying to sale there old RAFM Martians also, let me see if I can find it
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here you go
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=8158.0
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Yeah, cheers Moody, I'd seen that. But like I said earlier, I'm not in a position to be buying anything for this project until next year and I guess Thommy would prefer a quicker sale.
Just checking out the options at the moment. :)
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oops, forgot about that part. Well happy hunting and I hope you find what your looking for. (unlike myself with my constantly being distracted by ever thing that is shiny.) lol
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I know that feeling. One day I might concentrate on something long enough to finish it. Doubt it mind.
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Hmmm. Been looking at the Parroom Station stuff recently too. I'm always a bit put off ordering from them as I find their website quite confusing. I take it they don't have any UK or European suppliers that would be easier to get their kit from?
And Bronze Age, been looking at them too. And drooling.
No Uk suppliers anymore, (Newline Designs used to stock them, and have been selling off their stock at shows recently) its internet only from the States I am afraid, although I have had good service from them in the past and yes those Bronze Age minis are beautiful ;D
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Much to the distain of many members of this forum I dabble in the taboo world of 15/18mm VSF. Personally I have no preference over this scale or 25/28mm and enjoy them both equally. I suppose it comes down to what flicks your switch. 15/18mm is good if you want tripods or other giant martian thingies towering over your miniatures and careering over the game board. Alternatively you might just want to play large scale VSF games on a budget.
Unfortunaltely I haven't tried the Martian Empire rules yet but judging by the Yahoo group they seem ok. I use a freebie set of rules I've tinkered with called A Fistfull of Tripods for my War of The Worlds games and they work ok for me. The Black Hat minis are great and Mike's service is excellent. If you want to make your mind up on the day he always has a painted diplay on his stand. Then again you could always aks him nicely for a few samples.