Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Future Wars => Topic started by: Pijlie on 24 October 2015, 03:26:11 PM
-
Is there life after Warhammer 40K? Are there any other relevant SF rulesets for the forward-looking wargamer? |Actually: there are quite a few. Let's put the spot on my favorite: Tomorrow's War by Ambush Alley Games.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-A3OGQRnTUTQ/ViuLaukYjGI/AAAAAAAADkk/wUgOIybu6qg/s1600/TW%252BCOVER%252Bcopy.jpg)
TW is a "hard" science fiction ruleset wherein players control several 6-10 man squads and/or vehicles. The "science" is the result of extrapolating known scientific data. That makes the weapons, tactics, vehicles and terrain resemble what we might encounter on the modern battlefield, but without the boring constraints of reality. This offers the opportunity to work with robots, AI drones, Mechs, anti-grav vehicles, spacesuits and the like.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-eU2FHC10NTc/ViuMWCMpRuI/AAAAAAAADlA/CT5NrDEthuU/s1600/DSC_0027.JPG)
Read more about TW here:
http://pijlieblog.blogspot.nl/2015/10/tomorrows-war-reviewed.html (http://pijlieblog.blogspot.nl/2015/10/tomorrows-war-reviewed.html)
-
Nice one, thanks. :) I've sometimes wondered about this set.
Reaction Tests determine whether the Active or the Passive player may act first. These (re)actions in turn may provoke reactions by other Active or Passive units, until there is no one left to respond to someone and the Active player resumes the normal order. This gives a smooth and dynamic string of events
Good to hear it! Though it still sounds like it might slow the game a wee bit. (It makes me think about all the card duels and fate cheating in Malifaux, when a model takes an action) What's the longest reaction chain you've seen?
-
Well, I can't really say as I never timed it. But since TW tables usually have a lot of cover lines of sight tend to be limited in general. As reactions are triggered by visuals so are these. And the procedure is quite fast. It's a bit like this:
Human squad A is Active and announces to run across the road. They will cross the view of Alien (Passive) squad A which announces it wil fire at them. Human squad B sees the aliens attempt firing and announces that it will provide covering fire. Both players roll for each acting and reacting squad. Human B wins, then Human A and then Alien A. So human B may fire at the aliens. Human A may run across the street before the Alien can shoot and the Aliend has no one to shoot at.
That's about it. Chains are usually no longer than that. And of course if Human A stays out of sight, no one may react.
-
Sounds really cool.
-
I've been on the fence about these rules for ages, I suppose I should give them an actual try some time now.
-
We REALLY must have misread that, because reaction suddenly became infinite recursion, and we never figured out who shot whom.
Wish I could remember to whom I lent my book last...
Doug
-
Once having spend an action, you can never react to a reaction in that same turn. Every unit only gets one go in a turn. You can spend your activation on either a reaction or am action, but not both. Simply state your intentions, roll the reaction tests and place the dice next to the unit the score belongs to. That's all. But I admit it helps having it explained to you by someone who already knows the rules.
-
Once having spend an action, you can never react to a reaction in that same turn. Every unit only gets one go in a turn. You can spend your activation on either a reaction or am action, but not both. Simply state your intentions, roll the reaction tests and place the dice next to the unit the score belongs to. That's all. But I admit it helps having it explained to you by someone who already knows the rules.
Ain't that the truth. My son and I had a devil of a time figuring out how to play this game. We were both weaned on IGOUGO and couldn't really get our heads around how the flow of the game worked until we had played it a few times. Yours is the best description I've read yet. Even now it still feels like we're missing something. If I had a little more gumption, I'd like to have somebody who already knows how to play (either TW or one of the other Ambush Alley games) sit down at a table and walk me through, just to make sure I'm not missing anything.
-
Great review !
By the way, it would be great to watch a complete game video of this game, played by specialists on youtube ! It's often more instructive that reading a rulebook or diagrams, in my humble opinion. g
-
Great review !
By the way, it would be great to watch a complete game video of this game, played by specialists on youtube ! It's often more instructive that reading a rulebook or diagrams, in my humble opinion. g
Not a big fan of "actual play" videocasts, but that sounds like something I would watch. Let me know if you ever find one.
-
Personaly I don't like "example" videos (for instance, how to shoot video, how to move video, etc...) a real gaming session video is a lot more instructive, and also give a good clue on how the game flow is : fast game, sluggish game, you also see how much the gamers has to refer to book or QRS, etc...
Last video I saw was about Lion Rampant, and it was a good way to see the fluidity of the game, and its straight forward mechanics, for instance.
-
If you can get a copy of the pre-Osprey force on force on ebay or so the reaction system was explained way better.. they had a nice flow chart...
I think the Osprey editions for some reason constrained that part of the rules too much, don't know why... and unfortunately I stopped playing because people had different interpretations which created a problem for club pick up games.. I would run a game where I'm GM though since they are good set of rules at core ( though I'd change some of the morale mechanics, rolling one die per figure standing for morale provides oscillating chances of pass rather than an increasingly difficult morale check as you take casualties ).
The scenario book they released is even very good as a source of ideas and a very nice product !!
cheers
Francisco
-
I've experimented briefly with Tomorrows War, but found the rulebook itself a chug to get through and tough to follow, went online and found that I wasn't entirely alone with that, but that the rules (once you understand them) are pretty simple. Maybe I just need to give it another shot, but I remember thinking at the time that a series of decent video tutorials would probably set me straight on it.
I do love that it's a very 'generic' set of rules. I can use a pre-existing 40k collection, star wars, or near future stuff - that feature makes it great value for me (if I can get my head around it) and is where a lot of recent sci-fi releases loose me (Beyond the Gates of Antares, for example - really wish it was a more generic rule set with just an 'officially' supported setting, rather like the one in Tomorrows War).
-
Sounds like we could do with a "how to play" video or something. Somebody who actually clearly explains how it works with an example.
-
Sure it would be interesting. I can "feel" the potential of these game mechanics, but I 'm too dumb to properly understand and play them (even if I bought FoF) lol
-
Sure it would be interesting. I can "feel" the potential of these game mechanics, but I 'm too dumb to properly understand and play them (even if I bought FoF) lol
That is exactly how I feel when I play it. I'm not even smart enough to figure out if I'm missing something or the rules are. For all I know, I'm playing it right, and just don't like the game!
-
FoF/TW is one of my fav games. I always played it for asymetrical battles. Really enjoyable for playing a few squads vs hordes of bandits. Cool system, easy to play once you get the rules (luckily someone taught me how to play it) and Fog of War cards are fun too.
It gets a bit tricky with too many regulars tho. Also, vehicles are a bit crazy for my taste and some of the scenarios are just bad or almost impossible to achieve like when you have six turns to go somewhere (often in straight line) and if you stop for any reason (morale, pinning, fog of war cards) or just make a curve, you lose.
My favorite book is the one about Somalia. I liked less the Vietnam one: more a history book with only a few missions but the cards are cool.
-
We played TW for a while and we liked the game. Once you get through the (terrible) rulebook and get into the system, it works well. Main downside I experienced is that dice rolls can have a huge impact on the game (especially because you're using different types). The last game we played was the scenario where a small elite force takes on a large force of dummies as they try to extract a person from the centre. The dummy force was absolutely steamrolled because the elites rolled well (especially for saves and casualties). In the end all dummies were shot down while one elite had a bleeding finger...
And I agree, the missions are a bit hit and miss. But it isn't hard to design your own missions.
But for what I'm looking for in games I think that Black Ops suits my needs better and will be the new set of rules I will be playing instead of TW :)
-
But for what I'm looking for in games I think that Black Ops suits my needs better and will be the new set of rules I will be playing instead of TW :)
Same here Mal. So....demo at Poldercon? :)
-
I agree and even if I haven't played it yet I think I'll love Black Ops but looks like you may have more minis on the table with FoF si I'll keep using it for bigger skirmishes.
-
There might very well be a Black Ops demo at Poldercon. As for TW, who knows? 😁
-
The last game we played was the scenario where a small elite force takes on a large force of dummies as they try to extract a person from the centre. The dummy force was absolutely steamrolled because the elites rolled well (especially for saves and casualties). In the end all dummies were shot down while one elite had a bleeding finger...
We played that game and had the opposite result. The elites took an early casualty which slowed them down long enough for the mobs to bring their superior numbers to bear and clog things up until the time expired. I remember it as one of those scenarios where everything has to go perfect for the elites or there's no way for them to achieve victory in the given timeframe.
-
Thanks for posting this Pijlie, it made me get the book out and have another look at it.
I think you have cleared up some issues that I had with remembering the rules.
-
I too have dug out my copy of the rules. I had the infinite recursion problem as well, so hopefully they'll make a bit more sense now.
I still think the colour choice of grey text on grey paper is dreadful, and I seem to remember my eyes starting to twitch big time after a couple of pages :-[
I also remember imagining how much ink was wasted to print the book and being really glad it wasn't a pdf that I'd had to print myself ;D
-
I too have dug out my copy of the rules. I had the infinite recursion problem as well, so hopefully they'll make a bit more sense now.
Thanks to EVERYONE who may have admitted this! I've seen less than complimentary reviews, but never saw anyone describe this. I REALLY thought I was THAT dumb! (Okay, really, I'm just happy that's an open question again.)
I, too, will find that damn copy and give it another look.
Thanks again!
Doug
-
Well, I can't really say as I never timed it. But since TW tables usually have a lot of cover lines of sight tend to be limited in general. As reactions are triggered by visuals so are these. And the procedure is quite fast. It's a bit like this:
Human squad A is Active and announces to run across the road. They will cross the view of Alien (Passive) squad A which announces it wil fire at them. Human squad B sees the aliens attempt firing and announces that it will provide covering fire. Both players roll for each acting and reacting squad. Human B wins, then Human A and then Alien A. So human B may fire at the aliens. Human A may run across the street before the Alien can shoot and the Aliend has no one to shoot at.
That's about it. Chains are usually no longer than that. And of course if Human A stays out of sight, no one may react.
To be honest it is slightly more complex than my example.
A unit reacting by moving may only do so once per turn. A unit reacting by firing may do some multiple times. However, the unit loses a fire die every consecutive salvo until no more fire dice remain. The more you shoot as a reaction, the less effective it becomes until it is no longer even possible.
-
...However, the unit loses a fire die every consecutive salvo until no more fire dice remain...
Okay, I'm afraid again; keeping the count (of dice) straight could be daunting, but, as I said, I have to find my book.
Doug
-
Nonono. There is rarely even a handful of units per side. Just place a D6 next to the unit. Shot once, shot twice....
Let's re-write my example a bit:
Friendly A is Active and announces to run across the road. They will cross the view of squad Enemy B (Passive) which announces it wil fire at them as soon as they are in the middle of the street.
Friendly squad C sees the aliens attempt firing, may react to en enemy (re)action and announces that it will provide covering fire for A, attempting to drive off or pin B before they can shoot.
Both players roll for each acting and reacting squad. Friendly C wins, then Enemy B and then Friendly A.
Squad C fires at Enemy B, killing one trooper but not accomplishing anything else.
Enemy B fires at squad A. B has already fired in this turn and has lost a trooper, so loses two fire dice: one for firing for a second time and one for the lost trooper. Still B's fire is very succesfull, wounding two and killing one. If B fires again in this turn, it will do so minus 3 fire dice: one for the lost trooper and 2 for firing two times already.
Friendly A may now finish running across the street, leaving three casualties behind them. Friendly A may still react to things further on in the turn by firing, but has already moved, so may not move again.
This is how we played it.
-
Sounds about right to me. To take it up one level, Friendly (active side) units can also react to enemy reactions but that completes that units turn.
So the active player, especially i they continue to win activation can construct a plan based on all the above knowledge.
-
I would also humbly suggest that if you don't have a knowledgeable player to teach the AA/FoF/TW system that you play a simple game with two teams a side. That should create some dynamic without going over the top.
-
I may have missed it being stated above, but the key thing to Reactions is on page 36:,
"Units on the side without initiative (referred to as “non- initiative units”) may React to the Actions of initiative units within their line of sight." If you have initiative you cannot react.
So in the example above Friendly Squad C would not react. It would just activate after the action of Friendly Squad A and reaction of Enemy Squad B is resolved. If you wanted to have Friendly Squad C fire they would have to be put on Overwatch (page 70) at the beginning of the turn before actions start. Overwatch is what gives the initiative units the ability to interrupt the reactions of enemy units (cover advancing units).
-A
-
And Overwatch is key to success with veterans. I have seen squads in Overwatch decimating several squads in one turn.