Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Frostgrave => Topic started by: Buff Orpington on October 26, 2015, 09:18:52 PM
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As part of Deeside Defenders' Gauntlet weekend I have agreed to run a Frostgrave competition on the Saturday. I'd appreciate advice on some specifics.
How long should I allow per round? I would like to get 3 or 4 rounds played during the day. 3 is probably more realistic unless people are prepared to play into the evening and some will want to be going home.
Playing on 3' x 3' layouts how much room should I allow for books, lists, dice rolling etc. This is important as we have to hire the tables. More space means more tables or fewer players, either way it puts up the cost.
Following on from that, how much would people be prepared to pay to enter? All we seek to do is cover the cost of tables and set up a small prize fund.
The event will take place on Saturday July 2nd at the Wings Sports & Social Club at the Airbus factory in Broughton just outside Chester. I'll put up links to the club website as soon as we set up the page for next year's event. Expressions of interest in coming along would be welcome.
Thanks
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While a standard game of Frostgrave is 3'x3' with 6 treasures, if you are looking to run a speedier tournament version, you could try 3 treasures on a 2'x2' gaming area. All treasures placed along the center line of the battlefield. Players deploy their models just off of the edge of the battle area. Allowing 4ft of space for each setup should allow everyone enough room, but I guess you could get by with as little as 3ft per setup if you were crunched for space.
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Dont play in it yourself.
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I'd say don't make it a tournament. It's not a tournament game, why make it one?
Rather, clearly state that it is a gaming day, meant to sponsor the acquisition of some scenery, and to incentivize people come up with a different solution for a prize. You could still have a tournament-ish element though. You could say that whoever has the highest level wizard at the end of the day wins some kind of really special treasure that they were looking for.
That's what I would do anyways.
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Maybe put a turn limit in, if you're worried about timing and over-running.
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Yeah, not sure a tournament for Frostgrave is ideal for showing the strengths of the game, rather a series of linked games with unique Scenarios and Treasures against different opponents would be cool?
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I have been toying with the ''Campaign in a day'' format which seems to fit more this game than tournament play.
I would organize a day where you play 4-5 games with a fix amount of turns (4 seems to be good) over the course of 6 to 8 hours and the winner is the Wizard with the most XP in the end.
I would probably create special scenarios for game 2 and 5 just to keep the players on their toes and I would allow players to bring a total of 15 models they could play/hire.
The one downside of this is that you need a metric crap tons of terrains and monster miniatures for random encounter.
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I have been toying with the ''Campaign in a day'' format which seems to fit more this game than tournament play.
I would organize a day where you play 4-5 games with a fix amount of turns (4 seems to be good) over the course of 6 to 8 hours and the winner is the Wizard with the most XP in the end.
I would probably create special scenarios for game 2 and 5 just to keep the players on their toes and I would allow players to bring a total of 15 models they could play/hire.
The one downside of this is that you need a metric crap tons of terrains and monster miniatures for random encounter.
Yeah. You could have the special scenarios with themed monsters to suit your collection, like all zombies in one game, say, if you have a load of zombies. And you could also ask players to bring any suitable random monsters (and treasure tokens) they might have, to help out.
You could also set up each table with its own scenario, and then work out a system whereby everyone gets to play different scenarios each game. So hopefully every player, by the end will have played a different opponent and a different scenario, every game. Eg, Player A and Player B play on table Z, then Player A plays player C on table Y, while player B plays player D on table X, etc.
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Four games seem like a good number; 5 requiring too much time while 3 places too much emphasis on a single lucky game. Roughly an hour and a half is probably enough, but include reasonable breaks in between to allow people to sort their warband out and spend their gold wisely. Time limits mean that you'll have to divise a ruling as to how unclaimed treasure is divided - does carrying it count, or does it have to be off the table? Both have their pros and cons.
As for the random encounters, I'd construct a new table with the available figures, preferably from an identical pool available at each table. Some cheap skeletons, wolves, a single larger demon or worm etc. Table sizes around 4'x4', with a 3x3 play area centrally but to one side, i.e. with a 6" strip at each player's edge to place the die (wanted to say dice here, but no more than 1 required of course!), measuring tape, figures that left the table etc., and a full foot next to the play areas for books and all the paperwork.
As for the final goal, judging the winner based on experience may place too much emphasis on killing enemy wizards, and anybody succeeding in that goal will have a large advantage over others. Thought it might be fun to create a treasure table for the event, containing all the prizes available. One roll on the table for each treasure collected during the day, and the person with the most experienced wizard gets to roll first. Prizes would just be some random creatures and models, perhaps those used in the event or leftovers, a nice bit of scenery, useful things like that. As everybody would certainly collect some treasure during the day, nobody goes home empty-handed, but those who did well get more things and first picks.
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Thought it might be fun to create a treasure table for the event, containing all the prizes available. One roll on the table for each treasure collected during the day, and the person with the most experienced wizard gets to roll first. Prizes would just be some random creatures and models, perhaps those used in the event or leftovers, a nice bit of scenery, useful things like that. As everybody would certainly collect some treasure during the day, nobody goes home empty-handed, but those who did well get more things and first picks.
I really like this! It goes well with the gathering treasure aspect of the game. Consider the idea stolen for when I actually get to do a game day.
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Thanks for all the ideas so far, much appreciated and please keep them coming. I'm considering putting a 75 minute limit on actual game time with a 15 minute window for paperwork and post game actions, that should ensure that we get four rounds in. The ranking by XPs is really only there to ensure that the strong bands get strong opponents after round 1. The level of prize value probably won't be that great unless I get lucky in finding sponsors. I like the idea of something for everyone but I'll have to see what's in the kitty.
Terrain is always going to be an issue, I can probably supply enough for two tables and the club could do something similar. I'll be begging, borrowing and stealing for the rest.
Related to that, has anyone ever managed a suitable layout for the Library scenario? It seems to me that what is needed is a labyrinth with 4 entrances. It could probably be done on a 2D floorplan but you would need a shedload of something like Dwarven Forge corridors to do it in 3D. As it happens I know someone with a shedload of Dwarven Forge. That's an idea.
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Dont play in it yourself.
Absolutely, I'll have enough on my hands.
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[...] but you would need a shedload of something like Dwarven Forge corridors to do it in 3D. As it happens I know someone with a shedload of Dwarven Forge. That's an idea.
I know many people have done it with papercraft bookshelves (like the ones in the Old Heroquest boardgame). It's probably something that could be cheaply (if you have the time) scratchbuilt.
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See the thread 'Adam's Frostgrave Scenario Discussion' a kind member has posted some printable bookcases.
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There is a printable version of the Heroquest Book shelf in the thread, and then the images you need to make these
(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/10/25/753115_mb-Library%20D%26amp%3BD%20terrain%20Frostgrave.JPG) (http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/753115-Library%20D%26amp%3BD%20terrain%20Frostgrave.html?m=2)
Link to thread here (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=83556.0)
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I'd be interested in playing and I expect that at least two others from my gaming group would be also. I could provide terrain for a table if needed.
I think most of the things you need to consider have been mentioned already. I recommend you have a turn limit rather than a set game time. You could ask players to provide some wandering monsters. You need to think about how experience and progression, rolling for treasure, out of game spells, will all work, and how it will be checked and tracked. You should consider some of the rules changes that have been suggested on here relating to campaign balance.
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How are you going to determine score and are you going to use rankings to determine who the next opponent is ?
Since Gold is randomly rolled, it's a terrible way to keep score. I suggest wins/loss and XP earned plus x amount of points per treasures obtained.
Also, I would run them all as stand alone games. No progression. Nothing carrying over between games.
Time Limit: I think yours is too long. An Hour per game, with 15 minutes in between for setup and bathroom breaks, will allow you 3 rounds of swiss, a semi final round, and finals round.
Round 1: Everyone plays, random pairings
Round 2: Pairing by record, top players verses each other all the way down
Round 3: Pairing by record, top players verses each other all the way down
Round 4: Semifinals Top 4 Players Pairing by record, top players verses each other all the way down
Round 5: Finals: Winners of Round 4 compete for 1st and 2nd, while losers of Round 4 compete for 3rd and 4th
This way everyone gets in 3 games, but the people who no longer stand a chance of winning can leave, if they want to, before the semifinals.
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Hi, thanks for all the advice so far.
I had pretty much decided to cut game length to 60 minutes. I'll have to put a timetable together to see what will fit.
The idea of using a starter warband for each round hadn't occurred to me but I can see some advantages. It will speed up the after game phase and prevent anyone finding themselves in the situation I'll be in for my next game where both my archers and my Man at Arms will miss the game. How do other players feel about the idea? It isn't as if this band has to be used again after the event.
I'll work out the programme tonight and pass it to the show co-ordinator. He will then put it on the website.
I'm hoping that we can source all the terrain within the club. That way I can set it all up on Friday and players can get stuck in straight away on the Saturday. Right now it looks like there will be four rounds but the option is there to squeeze in a fifth round if play rattles along quickly.
Thanks
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Using starter warbands all the time means you never get to use any of the cooler, more difficult spells though. Fortunately, Frostgrave hasn't been around long enough for the ever-so-fun "net-list" spam, but you are going to be playing a very different game to Frostgrave proper if you are going to do it that way, if you ask me.
Embrace the randomness, embrace the fact that some wizards grow powerful very quickly. It is part of the game, and it is part of the narrative. Part of life too. You don't see Barcelona hiring really bad players just to make sure that the game stays balanced when they have to play against a poor football team.
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How about doing something like everyone's wizard goes up a level between rounds, and you get 50 more gold to spend on your warband each round. This would allow progression, so you get to use the more powerful spells and better soldiers, but would also mean you could plan your warband in advance for each round.
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It doesn't have to be a starter list. It could be something like a level 10 wizard, with a 1000GC spend limit, but it should be the same list for each game. A tournament isn't a league.
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Thanks All, Sorry I haven't been around for a day or two but real like intervenes now and then, decorating and puppy sitting, one's a pleasure and one isn't. Plenty to think on here, much appreciated.
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Just done some number crunching to see what a typical Level 10 warband might look like, how much it might have earned, lost, spent and what it could have. It is actually quite a lot. A level 10 band will earn something like 18 treasure rolls, that comes out to an average value of about 8700 GC when treasure values are totalled in. Of course there will have been losses to replace, scrolls & potions used and things bought along with grimoires that sit in the vault because you have no intention of wasting an upgrade to learn something with a casting number of 22.
I threw in a few usage factors and I think that 2,500 GC will give each player enough to build his party, buy items, potions, grimoires & scrolls of his choice without giving him enough to build a totally Uber band. I'm assuming that players will only purchase grimoires that they intend to use their upgrades to learn, maybe about three? Of course, they may choose to buy none and power up the original eight but that's a matter of choice.
Any thoughts?
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I'm just curious how you are figuring that average.
This weekend I had a Wizard make it to level 5, with 130 GC, a 200GC Magic Item, and 3 Grimoires.
If I had to guess at an average Frostgrave game:
2-3 Treasures @50XP
5-10 Spells @10XP
50Xp of Scenario Specific XP ?
So average of 2.5 levels of advancement and 2.5 treasure rolls per game, about 4 games and 10 treasures.
Remembering that some of the treasure rolls will be lame, like 20GC, or High casting number opposing schools.
Also, should implement a limit on how many times something could be improved, I suggest 4.
Otherwise, you'll end up with level 10 wizards casting Elemental Bolts on 5+
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I was looking at a slower advance rate with more games to get to level 10, about 6, but that's probably based on a very limited sample size.
An average treasure roll should earn you 83 GC, 0.25 potion, 0.1 Armour or weapons, 0.15 magic items, 0.25 scrolls and 0.4 grimoires.
I averaged out costs for the various treasures from the values in the lists and an average treasure roll totals out at a fraction over 485 GC in value.
I tweaked it down to 2,500 as an allowance to build a decent band and add something like three spells at 500 points a time. I can see that cutting it to 2,000 would lessen the chance of someone cherry picking one additional spell and really loading up a high impact band with 1500 points worth of extra equipment.
Thanks for the suggestion about the limit on spell improvement, I can see that having one banker spell could unbalance things over a short series of games.
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You could also set a GC limit and have them pick N# additional spells.
Make a standard 500GC warband.
Choose 2 additional spells.
Choose a base.
Add 10 levels of advancement , with nothing upgraded more than 4 times
Have 1000GC to spend as they wish.
Adjust the numbers as you see fit, but this method would prevent them from loading up on all Magic Gear, and simulate that they would have gotten grimoires by 10th level