Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: surdu on 05 November 2015, 10:02:11 AM
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(http://bucksurdu.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Slide01.jpg)
You need either Set A (http://www.drivethrucards.com/product/158116/Combat-Patrol-Set-A) or Set B (http://www.drivethrucards.com/product/158122/Combat-Patrol-Set-B) of the cards to play the game. The basic rules and a sample scenario are a free download from the product page. You will also notice a PDF download link. This is not a downloadable version of the cards. This is the download of the advanced and vehicle rules.
You need the cards to play the game! Under the rulebook link are the free quick start rules. The PDF that can be made part of your purchase contains the advanced and vehicular rules.
I have created a promotional video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSChdQcZZJs&feature=youtu.be) that describes some of the high points of the game. I have also created a demonstration video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0hinO2KaMY&feature=youtu.be) that describes how combat resolution is performed in this unique set of rules. I encourage you to view this video.
There is more information about Combat PatrolTM: World War II as well as some free downloads of templates and record sheets on the rules' Web page (http://www.bucksurdu.com/Buck_Surdu/Combat_Patrol.html).
You can also ask questions about the rules on this Yahoo! Group (https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/LookSargeNoCharts/info). This is not a set of rules in the Look, Sarge family, but this an existing group that I check daily.
So what makes Combat PatrolTM: World War II unique?
- The Double Random Activation mechanism provides the unpredictability and drama of card-based activation without the drawbacks. This activation mechanism was originally developed for Battles by Gaslight and was refined during the development of Look, Sarge, No Charts titles. The mechanism uses cards for activation but ensures that multiple players are acting at the same time.
- No big yellow or pink chart cards cluttering up your beautiful gaming tables. Each player needs one or two 3″ x 5″ cards with the information about his units, including their weapons and equipment. Other than those, there are no chart cards. The back of these unit records includes the modifiers for hand-to-hand combat and terrain effects on movement. After a game or two, players rarely need to refer to these, so two unit records can be taped back to back for even less clutter.
- Combat resolution is resolved by flipping cards. Players read different sections of the cards in the Action Deck depending on what they are trying to do: shooting, resolving hits, "rolling" to penetrate enemy vehicles, hand-to-hand combat, movement, and morale. In development, I took a series of charts and then broke them apart to fit on an Action Deck of 50 cards. Flipping a card is essentially the same as rolling a die and looking up the result on a table. The difference is that you don't have to do all that table look up. Flip a card and determine whether you got a hit. If so, flip the next card to see which target figure was hit, how severely, and whether he is protected by cover. (Check out the demonstration video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0hinO2KaMY&feature=youtu.be) to see how this works.
- Cover is represented explicitly. Instead of cover providing a negative modifier to hit, if you get a hit, when you flip the next card in the Action Deck, you look for cover icons. If the target figure is in the type of cover indicated on the card, instead of being wounded or incapacitate he ducks back behind cover and is stunned. While the use of cover as a to-hit modifier and the process in Combat Patrol can be mathematically equivalent, there is something intuitively appealing to knowing that the window sill deflected that round that would have otherwise hit your figure. In play tests, this explicit representation of cover has made players make better use of cover while maneuvering their squads.
- Messy "opportunity fire" rules are replaced by a simple reaction mechanism.
Somewhat randomized movement speeds based on the Guts level of the unit or its leader. - The G.A.M.E.R.TM engine name is an acronym for the attributes which describe figures in Combat Patrol: Guts (morale), Accuracy (shooting), Melee (hand-to-hand combat), Endurance (how many wounds a figure can take), and Reaction. The game master can "sculpt" a unit to fit a historical scenario.
- Playable on multiple levels of resolution. At the lowest level, all the figures in a unit have the same attributes. At the highest level, each figure can have different attributes. The levels of resolution can be mixed so that the Commando unit has more detail than the installation security personnel. This allows games that have a historical feel as well as those with a more cinematic feel.
- Rules for replacements of personnel and equipment between scenarios enable players to represent mini-campaigns.
- Ground scale is 1 inch = 5 yards, pretty close to the scale of the 28mm figures I used in play testing.
The basic rules are just eight pages – and that includes several pictorial examples of firing and grenade resolution that fill almost a full page themselves!
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I'm really interested in trying this out.
Unfortunately the cost is prohibitive. One set of cards plus cheapest shipping to UK is over £35!
Is it possible to make this available through UK distributor or card printing service please, or make the cards available to buy and print out as pdf file?
Look forward to update.
Chris
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A set of cards is a stack of 224 cards, enough for 4-8 players. The basic rules are free. On this side of the pond we pay $40 for Muskets and Tomahawks and more for Saga -- without the nice but unnecessary dice. I don't see the cost as prohibitive. Chain of Command is at least $40 over here. If 35 Euros is too much, I'm sorry, but that's what it is. I went with DriveThru cards so that people could get the cards anywhere in the world. That's the best I can do for now.
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Not an exactly customer a friendly response. I guess i will give it miss. and thats about it.
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Actually, he said 35 POUNDS. That's more than euros. Something like 70.00 canadian.
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I was very disappointed by the response. I am genuinely interested in the game. We are currently running a Kickstarter for 28mm WW2 Normandy buildings with full interiors that would work great with a skirmish system like this, we also retail 28mm WW2 figures and rules from Warlord Games, Artizan, Perrys, Plastic Soldier Company etc, and put on participation games at UK shows, so we could have really supported these guys, if the rules are any good. I did not begrudge the cost of the cards $27 / £17.81 (GB Pounds Sterling) / 25.17 Euro, to have a look at a new game.
The issue is that if they are only making them available via a USA based printer the cost outside the USA becomes £35 pounds as they are charging £17.19 for postage. This is outrageous and does not reflect the cost of postage at all. We have hundreds of customers in the USA and the most we have charged is 20% and we ship heavy MDF kits, and we also import PULP Alley lines from the USA and the most this has ever cost is 15% of order value.
If the cards were available via a US printer that did not charge 100% for postage, or a UK / European Printer I would happily pay the $27/£17 for the cards. I would also happily pay to download the cards as a PDF file. However £35 (which is $41) is just too expensive, in my opinion because they are charging 100% mark-up for postage.
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Hi John,
I hope that you can get back to this thread with some additional options. I am very interested in your rules, as I am sure are a lot of other gamers in the UK who have not come across them. I have in fact just purchased a copy of your 'Look Sarge, No Charts' rules which I have only heard about via this post. The issue is not what you are charging, it is the 100% markup for UK postage. If they are any good, I'd like to work with you to promote them in the UK.
Cheers,
Chris
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I would give Buck some time to figure this out. Problems like this have been around for a long time with products manufactured in different countries. He is probably going to have to do some research on it.
I did buy Combat Patrol. I am planning on trying a small solo scenario this evening.
I will post the results on my blog.
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I tried the rules this evening. I really like them. There is more information available on my blog. The card system works very smoothly. You have no charts to look up, the information is on the cards.
http://wargamingfromanarmchair.blogspot.com/2015/11/combat-patrol-wwii-first-impressions.html
I was also impressed with the physical quality of the cards. These are professionally produced cards. They look and feel and shuffle like regular playing cards.
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I hope that you can get back to this thread with some additional options. I am very interested in your rules, as I am sure are a lot of other gamers in the UK who have not come across them. I have in fact just purchased a copy of your 'Look Sarge, No Charts' rules which I have only heard about via this post. The issue is not what you are charging, it is the 100% markup for UK postage. If they are any good, I'd like to work with you to promote them in the UK.
Chris, please contact me at surdu@acm.org. I am happy to work with you on making the rules more easily available in the UK. I will have to check with DriveThru as well to ensure that I have not given them an exclusive right to print the cards for some period of time. DriveThru folks were very supportive and helpful in getting the cards ready to print, and I really like the quality of the cards they produce.
Does anyone have an suggestions for printing services in Europe that are comparable to DriveThru?
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I tried the rules this evening. I really like them. There is more information available on my blog. The card system works very smoothly. You have no charts to look up, the information is on the cards.
Thanks for the blog post. I'm glad you enjoyed the rules. Did you have a chance to spring them on your local club yet?
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Actually, he said 35 POUNDS. That's more than euros. Something like 70.00 canadian.
I don't think you'll have to pay anything like $70 Canadian. I don't think shipping to Canada from the US is anywhere near as expensive as shipping to Europe. I am curious as to whether you actually try to see what DriveThru would charge or were just translating the Euro price quoted earlier. If the cards are costing you $70 in Canada, I need to know that.
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Ordering up the .pdf and a set of cards via Wargame Vault would cost $44.75 US or $62.23 in Canadian Dollars, today.
That includes US $12.75 in postage.
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Ordering up the .pdf and a set of cards via Wargame Vault would cost $44.75 US or $62.23 in Canadian Dollars, today.
That includes US $12.75 in postage.
Wow! I didn't realize the exchange rate was so poor these days. I grew up in Detroit, across the river from Windsor. Most of my life I remember the exchange rate being about $0.95 to the Canadian dollar. In fact, Canadian coins were accepted 1 for 1 in Detroit. The artist for my games lives in Canada, and one year, the Canadian dollar was even worth more than the US dollar. I pay him in Canadian or US dollars, whichever is worth more at the time of payment.
I have been in conversation with DriveThru over postage rates. They say that they charge exactly what the postal carrier charges and don't add any markup on the postage. Can one of you guys in Europe or the UK provide me a postal code and estimated postage charge provided by DriveThru. DriveThru said they would double check to make sure there is no error in their postage calculator software.
Also, DriveThru is looking for an overseas printer with whom they can partner. Does anyone have any suggestions I can pass on to them?
I do not want to allow download and print of cards. I want the cards to be professional. My experience is that professionally printed cards say "this is real," while print and play cards say "house rules."
Another option might be finding someone who wants to distribute the game in the UK, getting a bunch of decks printed here and then mailing them to a UK or European distributor in a bulk box. Perhaps this would reduce postage by amortizing it across several decks. Not sure.
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I hope that you can get back to this thread with some additional options. I am very interested in your rules, as I am sure are a lot of other gamers in the UK who have not come across them. I have in fact just purchased a copy of your 'Look Sarge, No Charts' rules which I have only heard about via this post. The issue is not what you are charging, it is the 100% markup for UK postage. If they are any good, I'd like to work with you to promote them in the UK.
Chris, I just went to the USPS Web page. On cursory inspection it appears that shipping 20 sets of cards to someone in the UK would cost about $62 USD. With the exchange rate, I think that's two farthings, a shilling, and a groat or something. :D Perhaps we can work out some deal where I can have a bunch of sets sent overseas at one time to amortize the postage markup across many sets.
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Buck, just to give you an idea on shipping costs. If you ordered a copy of one of Chain of Command from our web site, the postage charge is about £8. Actually, the postage charge is £10.50 but I swallow £2.50 as it is just too expensive otherwise. When I post bulk orders to our suppliers in the US, Australia and New Zealand (i.e. long distance) the postage cost comes in at less than £2 per book. The cost per card deck is tiny. It may be that you need to link up with a UK distributor and send them by UPS (who are really exceptionally good) and that will save your stockists lots of money.
I wish you all the best with the rules. I have always admired your approach to game design.
Richard
TooFatLardies
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Buck, just to give you an idea on shipping costs... It may be that you need to link up with a UK distributor and send them by UPS.
I wish you all the best with the rules. I have always admired your approach to game design.
Richard
TooFatLardies
Thanks, Richard. Do you have a recommendation of someone in the UK to whom I might each out? You may not want to have that conversation in open forum, but perhaps by PM on TMP. Also, you can reach me at surdu@acm.org.
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Hi Buck
I am happy to post here. North Star are, for my money, the most professional and pro-active distributor in the UK. I have dealt with them for years and find every one of their team to be helpful and generally nice blokes. As well as being a distributor, Nick publishes stuff and casts figures, so he has a huge list of contacts who can provide pretty much any service you need.
Their web site is here: http://www.northstarfigures.com/
Best of luck.
Richard
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I am happy to post here. North Star are, for my money, the most professional and pro-active distributor in the UK. I have dealt with them for years and find every one of their team to be helpful and generally nice blokes.
Thanks for the advice, Richard. I will contact them today.