Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Pikes, Muskets and Flouncy Shirts => Topic started by: commissarmoody on November 28, 2008, 09:53:39 PM
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Hello all,
the past few recant postings about the FIW. Have perked my interest in said conflict. Problem being I really don't know much about it aside from the years it happened, and from what I have seen in the few movies about the subject. (war drums along the mohawk, the Last Of The Mohicans and the old technicolor Rogers Rangers)
Any and all info about the conflect is greatly appreciated. Be it names of books, pics of peoples panted mins, links for sites and uniform info.
thanks in advance
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French and Indian War is the name given to the North American portion of the Seven Years' War. In North America, the war primarily took place between the British colonies and the French Colonies (primarily New France aka Canada), and was the culmination of a couple of centuries of competition between those two countries for the control of the continent.
From a wargaming point of view, it is great - both sides have a mix of European-style regulars, militia and Indian allies. Actions range from small skirmishes through sieges and set-piece battles. There is also a strong Navy element with amphibious assaults in addition to battles at sea.
Some of the larger battles to research include the Battle of the Plains of Abraham, and its sequel the Battle of Ste Foy the following spring, the siege of Ft Ticonderoga, the siege of Louisbourg. The movies you mentioned are great and should provide great inspiration for wargame scenarios as well.
For a reasonably good potted history of the war, check out the Osprey book.
Conquest Miniatures is a great source of miniatures for the FIW, but of course there are other options as well, including Old Glory and others.
W
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I cant recommend the Osprey publication Empries Collide got it this week and it is a great starters resource with background to the campaign, actual battles and armies really worth while. I got it from Amazon for around £10
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Empires-Collide-1754-63-General-Military/dp/1846032199
Here is an interesting site for info
http://groups.msn.com/FrenchAndIndianWarHistory/frenchandindianwarhistory.msnw
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Thanks guys, i will check all thouse out. I was able to find a few ospreys books about the period and I also found the book Montcalm and wolfe and white devil (rogers rangers) and will be looking into geting that Empire collides along with a few more books focaseing on the major battles and some more ospray books about the solders involved.
Question are there any good books in english showing the war from the french point of view or what it was like to be a french solder in that conflect. Espesaly about what it was like to be a french colonal marian fighting on the fronter.
thanks
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If you'ra after primary sources, check out the Documents Relative to the Colonial History of the State of New York Vol. X, ed. by Edmund O'Callaghan. Bougainville, who was a French officer at the time, wrote a journal of the "Wilderness War", which has been published in English by Edward Hamilton. However, I don't know any comprehensive guide to the soldier's everyday life.
The Ospreys are a good starting point, and a good read too, especially the ones from the Campaign series. Of particular interest are the both volumes about Louis XV's army dealing with the French infantry and the Colonial troops, they are a must-have. The both volumes about Montcalm's and Wolfe's army are a bit dated, but useful as an addition.
Since you are situated in the USA, it shouldn't be a problem to get the TV-series about the French & Indian Wars, which was released one or two years ago. It's called "The War that Made America" (LINK to Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/War-That-Made-America-French/dp/B000E1MXZ0/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1228037758&sr=8-1)) and gives some inspiring impressions of the war and its history - as far as it can be judged by me; sadly could only see some extracts as there's no official European or region 2 release. :(
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"Redcoats Along The Hudson", by Noel St John Williams is a decent intro to the war. Not many maps or pics, but the Ospreys etc will give you those, and it is an entertaining read.
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War That Made America is great. There is a companion book to go with the series, but I have no idea if it is any good or not.
For inspirational reading try anything by Allan Eckert. He writes "historical fiction" in that he invents conversations between historical figures, but the actual history he tells is accurate and compelling reading.
For a great source of F&I and frontier books in general, try Wennawoods publishing. They have a great bargain section! http://www.wennawoods.com/ (http://www.wennawoods.com/). They specialize in reprints of old and original books, but they also have new stuff like Ospreys. C. Hale Sipe's books are great if you are interested in the F&I in PA.
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kool I have a few of thouse books heading my way.
Dose any one know how the perrys AIW size up to the conquest mins. also how well do the Eurika highlanders compare?
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Conquest and Perry mix quite well sizewise. They are almost of the same height and figure. Although, watch out for the significant changes in clothing/uniform style from FIW to AWI. If you're painless enough, ignore it. If you want to portray the period accurately, there are now some choices for European regulars (if you need any for an average skirmish game). Think of Front Rank (bit chunky), Foundry (Baker stuff >:() or better of Crusader and the upcoming releases from Conquest.
Haven't seen Eureka in the lead, but Giles Allison (http://gilesallison.blogspot.com/) has some in his AWI regiments along with Perry. No striking differences, however, details are a bit soft.
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The Eureka figs match near perfectly IMO. The sculpting style is very similar to Perry and Conquest also. I have a 24 of the provincials painted up as the 60th along with 24 more to be the VA regt and batch of highlanders awaiting paint.
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Groovy! well I have some of the Eureka highlanders and conquest French Marines also heading my way.
I have to hold of on geting the indians and Rangers/light inf tell after chirstmass. I think I am supposed to buy stuff for other people this time of year. LOL
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I have some of the Eureka F&IW Provincials. These are very nice figs - slightly chunkier than the Conquest figures, but certainly "mixable".
The Perry woodland Indians mix very well with the Conquest figures. I've used the Perry American riflemen as well, and might use some of the southern militia as militia (oddly enough).
At the moment, it's Conquest's Rangers, Compagnies Franches de la Marine and some Indians, with a scattering of settlers and the Last of the Mohicans characters.
Rules: "This Very Ground", by the lads at Iron Ivan Games, with "Gloire" + "Among the War Parties" for the smaller scale stuff. I'm trying to work on a series of "linked" AtWP scenarios which reflect scenes from Last of the Mohicans, which go something like this:
The Deer Hunt - Hawkeye & Co. run down their dinner, cos they're hungry and stuff.
The Ambush/ Rescuing the Munro Girls - Hawkeye & Co. open up a can of old-timey whupass on the Hurons
Reaching Fort William Henry - obvious, innit? There may be Scotsmen. I dunno yet.
The Courier to Webb - runner(s) breaking through the French siege lines under cover of Hawkeye and La Longue Carbine (ooo-er, Miss Cora :o)
The Masscre I - Our Heroes try to fight their way out of the Huron ambush. Old timey whupass etc.
The Massacre II - Magua and his boys are mean to a whole bunch of people in order to get up close an' personal with a certain Scotsman. Bit bloody.
The Massacre III - Get to the canoes, quick.
etc etc.
You get the idea.
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I like what your idea there Mr Gallowglass.
Makes me wish I was still in NC, so that I could jump into that campaign with you. Dont be affended if I steal the idea my self ^_^
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The Ambush/ Rescuing the Munro Girls - Hawkeye & Co. open up a can of old-timey whupass on the Hurons
Oh dear, the historian in me cannot let this pass without comment. Canned whupass was not invented until the 1820s. You should restrict Hawkeye and pals to bottled whupass only! :D
Sorry, every time someone brings up the book or movie on another board I visit one or two people feel the need to point out all of the inaccuracies so I couldn't resist.
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Actually on the frontier, it was called Wuppanasse from the Delaware, and was preserved by drying whoopass on racks, grinding it up and mixing it with cornmeal before baking into cakes. :D ;D
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Nice. I expect to see a rule for the use of wupanasse in Among the War parties ASAP Pete!
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Actually on the frontier, it was called Wuppanasse from the Delaware, and was preserved by drying whoopass on racks, grinding it up and mixing it with cornmeal before baking into cakes. :D ;D
Please excuse my ignorance, but what is Wuppanasse/Whoopass? I have never come across it before.
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Please excuse my ignorance, but what is Wuppanasse/Whoopass? I have never come across it before.
We're making incredibly opaque and possibly unfunny jokes involving an idiom, the history of preserved foods, and Native American phonetic spellings. This is possibly the only time in the world this confluence of events has occurred.
To "Open a Can of Whoopass" is to whoop someone's ass, i.e. to apply a beating, a beatdown, to fight fisticuffs without quarter, etc. I hope the rest of the "humor" of our jokes can be discerned from here.
Lead Adventures, where every post is a cultural experience.
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Please excuse my ignorance, but what is Wuppanasse/Whoopass? I have never come across it before.
We're making incredibly opaque and possibly unfunny jokes involving an idiom, the history of preserved foods, and Native American phonetic spellings. This is possibly the only time in the world this confluence of events has occurred.
To "Open a Can of Whoopass" is to whoop someone's ass, i.e. to apply a beating, a beatdown, to fight fisticuffs without quarter, etc. I hope the rest of the "humor" of our jokes can be discerned from here.
Lead Adventures, where every post is a cultural experience.
Oh I see now, thanks for explaining . Now where,s the embarasssed emoticon...
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Actually on the frontier, it was called Wuppanasse from the Delaware, and was preserved by drying whoopass on racks, grinding it up and mixing it with cornmeal before baking into cakes. :D ;D
You don't know your history. (the "you moron" is both implied and silent)
Instead of playing with toy soldiers, immediately consult "Pedantry in Old Ohio" by Dr. A. Nal, Fellow T.W.A &T. and Prof. I. R. Eeelineedagudride-Badly, P.R.I.C. (some other Fellow). You will note that there is a footnote in the apocrypha to the 17th Edition (typically found just to the left of the jamstain which has been faithfully reproduced from the 3rd Edition onwards) which quite clearly states that:
Wuppanasse (from the Delaware) was preserved by drying whoopass on racks, grinding it up and mixing it with cornmeal before baking into cakes. These cakes, of course (the "you moron" is both implied and silent) became known as "pemmi-can" and when not eaten, were frequently used in place of tomahawks or some other class of hurty thing, hence the expression to "open up a can of Wuppanasse".
Enjoying games involving toy soldiers without having an exhaustively-researched basis in history? Bah. What's the world coming to?
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Well don't blame me. I only ever read the Ospreys*.
In all seriousness. I stand in awe, with my scalp in hand, it having been been removed from my head with a pemmi-can.
* Vanguard No. 183. Trail Food of the Eastern Woodland Native Americans (II) - Foods that Might Contain Meat But Not Squash or Beans
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In all seriousness. I stand in awe, with my scalp in hand, it having been been removed from my head with a pemmi-can.
As indeed you should!!!
Now, don't ever let me catch you even comtemplating enjoying yourself without first burning your DVD of "Last of the Mohicans", critiquing at least 47 different (and contradicting) primary sources on a 250 year old conflict, casting aspersions on other people's fun and boring the arse off complete strangers by repeatedly proclaiming to d'Interwebnet that you're "simulating history", or I'll come round your house and jump up and down on all your toys.
I HAVE NO LIFE, BUT I'LL GET ONE IF I SHOUT LOUDLY AT ONLINE PERSONAS ON THE INTERNET!!!!!!!
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Well if you were applying to be on the board of HMGS-E you could have just said so... lol
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Well if you were applying to be on the board of HMGS-E you could have just said so... lol
Busted. ::)
Major A. Noyance
Ex-Wrong Period Sandals Battalion.
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Ok I am totaly confused now lol
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Ok I am totaly confused now lol
And I'm off to the company christmas lunch in a minute. Involves Schnapps, christmas strong beer, and herings on black bread.
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Ok I am totaly confused now lol
And I'm off to the company christmas lunch in a minute. Involves Schnapps, christmas strong beer, and herings on black bread.
Sounds wonderful, except the herings on Black Bread.... ;)
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Ok I am totaly confused now lol
And I'm off to the company christmas lunch in a minute. Involves Schnapps, christmas strong beer, and herings on black bread.
Sounds wonderful, except the herings on Black Bread.... ;)
Oh, I don't know. I used to love pickled herring ["Bismark Herring", IIRC] and Schwarzbrot separately. I never thought to combine them, though ;D
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Ok I am totaly confused now lol
And I'm off to the company christmas lunch in a minute. Involves Schnapps, christmas strong beer, and herings on black bread.
Sounds wonderful, except the herings on Black Bread.... ;)
I actually have Riga Sprats on Estonian black bread 8)
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A bunch of stuff that is very funny, but also scarily close to the truth
I doff my (period correct, of course) chapeau to you, sir. Sic semper pedants!
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Ok I am totaly confused now lol
And I'm off to the company christmas lunch in a minute. Involves Schnapps, christmas strong beer, and herings on black bread.
Sounds wonderful, except the herings on Black Bread.... ;)
I actually have Riga Sprats on Estonian black bread 8)
We actually had something called 'curry salad' to put on the herings, too.
There was also fried fish filets, fried meatballs (Swedish meatballs) with boiled red cabbage, a special Danish thing called 'grønlangkål' (chopped green cabbage, boiled and stewed in a white sauce with salt, pepper, and sugar), some kindof boiled ham, rice à la mande (rice porridge mixed with whipcream, chopped almonds, sugar - served with hot cherry sauce), and white bread with cheese, grapes, etc...
Did I mention the strong christmas beer..? ;)
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God damn that sounds delicious.
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Agreed! I could really go for some nice herring right about now. Far better then wuppanese.
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Since becoming a trainee American, I have discovered something called "beef jerky".
Now, I initially thought it was something unfortunate and a bit seedy that the locals engaged in with the local herbivores when nobody was looking (the "eeeeeeeeeeeuuuuuuuuuuuuuuwwwwwwww" was quite overt in this case) but it actually turns out that people eat the stuff.
Nasty suspicious mind that I have, I thought they were trying to make an eejit of the guy just offthe boat. So, I made all the other members of the household eat some and noted their reactions.
Then I tried some and discovered that t'was actually quite nice.
What a fascinating modern age we live in.
Still can't find a half-decent Indian restaurant here, though.
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Find a hunter at work and ask him for venison jerky. That stuff is so good it should be illegal.
And how can you not find decent Indian in NOVA??
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Find a hunter at work and ask him for venison jerky. That stuff is so good it should be illegal.
And how can you not find decent Indian in NOVA??
Cork and Dublin had several unbelievably good Indian places and my standards for same are conseqently frighteningly high. "Half-decent" Indian by Irish or UK standards is currently way out of NOVA's league. My understanding is that Indian food is just not as popular here as it is on d'other side. After some searching, I went out to a place in Reston recently that was supposed to be "all that"...ermmm - no, 'fraid not. I could think of three Indian take-aways within 10 minutes of where I lived back at home that were miles better, and those were "it'll do cos it's late, I'm hungry and I can't be bothered cooking something", not "I'm going to go for something really nice".
Now, in the interest of fairness, my experience with Chinese and other Asian restaurants over here is that they habitually kick the collective arses of their counterparts on d'other side.
American chocolate, on the other hand, is foulness incarnate. Consider the Kit Kat. Most upsetting. There y'are with your coffee, thinking "I know, I'll have one of THOSE", and then yeh bite into it and go:
:o :o :o
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!
It's not right, I tell yeh.
Only thing left to do at this point is go and spark up.
American snacks are going to be the death of me. Well, that and 200 Marlboro for $30-odd in the chemist.
It's surreal - you go to the chemist and buy a carton of smokes.
They keep them behind the counter, right next to the nicotine patches!! Yeh couldn't make it up.....
As for the venison jerky, I got a deer last weekend and I know a man who knows a man who'll help me out there.
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Now I like my curry and kabos like the next guy but lets stay on topic here folks. lol
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What the hell good is the Interwebnet if you can't go around derailing things...... :-[
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You are totaly right, far be it for me to censor you, carry on with you jerky and marlboros :D
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You are totaly right, far be it for me to censor you, carry on with you jerky and marlboros :D
Just for that, I'll post up my list of groovy F&IW books tomorrow. ;D
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I wait with baited breath :D
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I wait with baited breath :D
Here y'go.
America's First First World War: The French and Indian War, 1754-1763
http://www.amazon.com/Americas-First-World-War-1754-1763/dp/1930098197/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228526608&sr=8-1
Excellent introduction, lots of B&W re-enactor photos.
The Annotated and Illustrated Journals of Major Robert Rogers
http://www.amazon.com/Annotated-Illustrated-Journals-Robert-Rogers/dp/1930098200/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228526608&sr=8-2
Amazing book. Loads of pen & ink illustrations, fantastic examination of the Rangers' uniforms.
Crucible of War: The Seven Years' War and the Fate of Empire in British North America, 1754-1766
http://www.amazon.com/Crucible-War-British-America-1754-1766/dp/0375706364/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228526861&sr=1-1
Giant work and a "real" history book. Easy to read - don't be put off by the size of it!
The History of Rogers' Rangers: The Beginnings January 1755-April 6, 1758
http://www.amazon.com/History-Rogers-Rangers-Beginnings-1755-April/dp/0788442953/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228527148&sr=1-7
This is the first of an enormous four-volume work dealing exclusively with the Rangers. I got mine on (Vol. I) on ebay. Great background to Rogers, tons of detail on Ranger operations - pretty much mentions all of the 22 or 23 raids/scouts etc that they went on. Is heavily referred to in the Annotated Journals.
White Devil: A True Story of War, Savagery And Vengeance in Colonial America
http://www.amazon.com/White-Devil-Savagery-Vengeance-Colonial/dp/0306814730/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228527446&sr=1-1
Just got this, but haven't started it yet. Hoever, I'm reading the following book by the same author:
Redcoats: The British Soldier and War in the Americas, 1755-1763
http://www.amazon.com/Redcoats-British-Soldier-Americas-1755-1763/dp/0521675383/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228527446&sr=1-3
Imagine an Osprey, without pictures but with a lot more historical research/detail. Some fantastic chapters on how British troops and warfare in North America "evolved". Great detail on the social/racial make-up of the British army, the Provincials, weapons and several good accounts of battles.
On the way (from ebay or Half.com etc):
La Marine: The French Colonial Soldier in Canada, 1745-1761
http://www.amazon.com/Marine-French-Colonial-Soldier-1745-1761/dp/1556137117/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228527757&sr=1-1
Redcoats, Yankees and Allies: A History of the Uniforms, Clothing and Gear of the British Army in the Lake George-Lake Champlain Corridor, 1755-1760
http://www.amazon.com/Redcoats-Yankees-Allies-Historyof-George-Lake/dp/0788409050/ref=wl_it_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=ITPQ9XLVKQOQR&colid=3KEUYSXHM6619
Really looking forward to the two of these.
I'm not counting the Ospreys, Campaigns or Essential Histories in this list.
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I just added La Marine and Redcoats to my list for chirstmass. Any one know what the conquest minitatures Accessories Weapon Sprue 1 and Weapon Sprue 2 have in them?
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I think sprue number one has some flintlocks, tomahawks and the like while number two has weapons more suitable for plains wars.
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I think sprue number one has some flintlocks, tomahawks and the like while number two has weapons more suitable for plains wars.
I have two of these sprues which (I think) came with some ofthe dismounted Comanche I got at Historicon. The sprue has:
1 x 18th century musket
1 x 18th century rifle
1 x Springfield/Sharps/Spence carbine (ACW era)
1 x Henry or Winchester rifle (Western lever-action repeater)
1 x flintlock pistol
1 x revolver (could be a Navy Colt or similar)
I also have another sprue which is exclusively hand weapons. These all seem to be Indian weapons like war clubs, although on looks a bit like a lacrosse stick with feathers on it.
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I also have another sprue which is exclusively hand weapons. These all seem to be Indian weapons like war clubs, although one looks a bit like a lacrosse stick with feathers on it.
Well, considering how violent games of lacrosse among the Indians apparently got, maybe it could be called a weapon!
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I also have another sprue which is exclusively hand weapons. These all seem to be Indian weapons like war clubs, although one looks a bit like a lacrosse stick with feathers on it.
Well, considering how violent games of lacrosse among the Indians apparently got, maybe it could be called a weapon!
Everybody knows the Indians were only copying the Irish game, hurling. ;)
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3469/is_43_53/ai_94464989
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Everybody knows the Indians were only copying the Irish game, hurling. ;)
Great. Now I've got an image of Iroquois with Irish accents! ::)
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The lacrosse sticks are actually the indian version of seige equipment. Without them they may never have taken fort Detroit! lol