Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: ayak333 on January 29, 2016, 10:05:11 PM
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The Baltic sea should be viewed as more of a highway than a boundary. With evidence of trade beginning at least from the Nordic Bronze age, the Baltic Sea was bursting with interaction. The Goths moved from Scandinavia to the Vistula in the early centuries AD, followed with migrations to the Crimea, and eventually a Goth sat on the Western Roman Throne. In the Viking age, Nobles from varying Scandinavian countries engaged in raiding trading and tribute gathering on the eastern Baltic, even before they went on to navigate the rivers of Russia.
The Northern Crusades informally began in the late 12th century when Danish and North German Nobles became exhausted by Wendish (Western Slavs whose linguistic territory was the area from today's Northeastern Germany eastward to the Vistula) raids. The Danish and German nobles started their retaliation with raids, and eventually moved on to take important towns and fortifications, resulting in the climactic destruction of the Slavic pagan temple at Arkona. After the success of these wars the Pope issued a Crusading Bull with the objective of converting the rest of Europe's Northern Pagans.
At this point the Germans, Danes, and Swedes, began a rivalry of conquest in the Eastern Baltic lands. The Germans forged the state of Livonia and Prussia with the help of the Brethren of the Sword and their better mannered successors, the Teutonic Knights. The Danes held northern Estonia and occupied the important fortress of Reval. Northern Estonia changed hands between the Sword Brethren, Danes, and Teutonic Knights, causing a lot of tension between the Catholic factions. The Swedes conquered Finland, and had a go at Estonia but saw little success. Their success in Finland however, put them in direct competition with Novgorod.
The indigenous peoples of the Eastern Baltic belong to two distinct linguistic groups: Baltic (Prussians, Lithuanians, Samogitians, Curonians, Semigallians, Latgallians...) spoken in modern Latvia and Lithuania; and Finnish (Karelians, Osselians, Estonians, Livonians...) with territories corresponding to Finland and Estonia. As stated before the peoples of the eastern Baltic had been in contact with the varying peoples of Northern Europe for time immemorial. However this time, the foreigners came with a ferocious crusading zeal, that exhibited more greed than piety.
Hope you enjoyed my quick Blurb! Here is what you've all been waiting for, the pics of my Samogitian or Curonian army. These guys defeated the Sword Brethren at the battle of Saule 1236, causing the Sword Brethren to be absorbed by the Teutonic Knights, and gave the Teutonic Knights a womping at the battle of Durbe 1260, inspiring the conquered Prussian clans to revolt within the Orden Staat.
(ignore the frostgrave gothic in the background)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-jDm6hUadhHE/VqvX2vlAXMI/AAAAAAAADUE/pGXWXbh9YCQ/w924-h520-no/0129161612.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-cEZxScPXxko/VqvX2osfnLI/AAAAAAAADUE/ogKNwEKeMt4/w924-h520-no/0129161612a.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-dPDLtH22pmY/VqvX2ssaTeI/AAAAAAAADUE/P2jk00UK7Yw/w924-h520-no/0129161613.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-cIiTg6Rpqr0/VqvX2h1QjKI/AAAAAAAADUE/8ZPS-NywCXU/w924-h520-no/0129161613a.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-UzKPbMH1wHs/VqvX2kY_8aI/AAAAAAAADUE/8blHRr84tiM/w924-h520-no/0129161613b.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-WI5gZTxCJr8/VqvX2jSU-dI/AAAAAAAADUE/bfiS6bSOHtI/w924-h520-no/0129161614.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-CRaKQ7ZSDf4/VqvX2h-1QPI/AAAAAAAADUE/_bWTaQbOHGo/w924-h520-no/0129161614a.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-QLxN64twGhY/VqvX2lyv5DI/AAAAAAAADUE/gKpPcJzFlJA/w924-h520-no/0129161614b.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ouoDZDZlt78/VqvX2ogA9uI/AAAAAAAADUE/JtB3hXytMA0/w924-h520-no/0129161615.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-HlbC7n6XsAg/VqvX2nz35_I/AAAAAAAADUE/9js3nYfcDHA/w924-h520-no/0129161616.jpg)
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Very nice painting and scenery! And thanks for the little history lesson too.
In the 7th picture down,the unit with the big redhead in the front, there are 4 figures to the left with conical helmets and mail coifs.Do you happen to remember where you got them?
Thanks,Pete
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Really nice stuff ayak333, I've often thought it would be an interesting period to do.
a lot of the figures look like Gripping Beast to me
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I really like your figures.
I agree with fitterpete,
love a little history to go along with the pics.
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The minis you are asking about are all gripping beast Jomsvikings
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Really like these, and love the history blurb. Nicely done! :) Out of curiosity, which kits did you use to kitbash the plastic figures members of that lovely horde?
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The horde with no armor consists of kitbashes of wargames factory ancient germans, wargames factory bondi, warlord games celts, gripping beast hirdmen heads and a few weapons, warlord game dacians, and the bannermen is a warlord games metal german. Hope that was the horde you were inquiring about.
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Thanks for the comments guys! I'll post pictures of the Teutonic Knights and Sword Brethren soon!
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Impressive looking army. Nice mix of manufacturers and different ranges for variety. Thanks for sharing.
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The horde with no armor consists of kitbashes of wargames factory ancient germans, wargames factory bondi, warlord games celts, gripping beast hirdmen heads and a few weapons, warlord game dacians, and the bannermen is a warlord games metal german. Hope that was the horde you were inquiring about.
Sure was, thanks!
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Great looking army for an unusual subject. Is that statue Svantevit? I can't see too clearly from these pics.
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The Statue is actually a pewter Santa Clause I got for one dollar. The Balts did not worship Svantevit but had a similar Pantheon to the Slavs and Scandinavians, and there are no archaeological remains of contemporary images of Baltic deities. But yes, the miniature was created with the idol of Svantevit in mind!
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Excellent presentation.
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I have a small Baltic Crusades project, but have always had a difficulty in finding a good match for the Balts although I have used some GB figures from the Tribal Warriors range.These figures look a good match with lots of variety and certainly given me some ideas.Could I ask what figures did you use for the Cavalry?
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The Noble Cavalry is made from wargames factory celtic cavalry and gripping beast hirdmen heads with some green stuff to make the body and head compatible. The light cavalry is wargames factory ancient germans, with gripping beast dark age warriors heads, a viking hirdmen head, and warlord celtic warriors heads. These were made several years ago, and if I were to go about Baltic Cavalry creation now (I still might), I would use the Arab heavy cavalry sets from gripping beast, and mix in suitable heads from the warlord celts, GB Hirdmen, Gb Dark age warriors, and the upcoming fireforge Russians. The miniatures would also need spears/javelins, swords, axes, and maces. Balts dismounted to use bows until the late 14th century, and there is still debate about the extent to which the Lithuanians used Horse archery, possible only having horse archery in their Tatar contingent/auxilliaries.
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While I have to be very skeptical to provided historical background (part about origin of Slavic-Germanic [Saxons- realy] conflicts being in response up with Wendish raids in XII century is plain untrue).
I have to say you've made very nice set of miniatures!
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You've neglected mentioning the Danes in your response. But, yes you are correct, the Saxon/Danish Princes were seeking more land. however, there was also the added benefit of pacifying the Baltic sea from Wendish raiding, which left the east coast of Zealand in tatters. And I was not referring to the origin of "Slavic-Germanic Conflict" I was referring to the origin of the Northern Crusades. But to place the blame on the Wendish raids for instigating was wrong, The "Germanic" Princes were responsible as well!
And Thanks for the compliment on the minis!
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More what i had in mind is time window..
Hard battles in Wendish lands are fought since IX century (some started in VIII and.
XII century is final effect of very long proces and western slavic lands (witgh some minor exceptions) are mostly in agony since mid XI century.
Thats fascinating period and armies to game. And I really like your miniatures.
I am thinking myself about creating add on for Dux Brittaniarum with campaign specific for fall of the Western Slav lands as they are almost mirror to fall of the Britons against the Saxons and great match for this wargame.
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I also thought of doing a Dux Britaniarum campaign, set in the early 1200s Lithuania. My concern was always getting the right troop choices for the army compositions, and game balancing along with the varying armies. The famous Dalauppror did a medieval swedish/danish 1400s Dux variant. What units were you thinking of using? Light cav for the wends like the irish/scots raiders list (i didnt buy the expansion). I would love to hear your thoughts on the units!
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I am aiming into East Germany region.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ydwJv3fzsSs/VFveMcd4EsI/AAAAAAAAAHQ/wf8pGHZj_2o/s1600/wieleci.jpg)
Cavalry was very rare in western slavic army. Most of the units should probably be similar to Saxons in Dux, although not so heavily armed.
Western slavs used terrain heavily. And for most part slavs fought on foot, with cavary only as kings retainers.
Problem is that most of the tribes didnt had hereditary ruling family but were tribal quasi democracies. That did not help with westernization of warfare.
So Main force should be standard warriors with shields but without armour apart from helmets. with elite armored druzinha and armored foot northern (Danish, Wiking, Jomsviking, Polish, Western Pommeranian) mercenaries or allies. Cavalry only as single unit and later in the campaign = lot of archers/slingers.
I agree that balance could be a problem and maybe should be overcame by heavy use of terrain. Most successful Saxon raids were in winter, when marshes and rivers were frozen.
because when in bad situation Slavic forces often would just disappear in terrain and refuse fight.
I suppose it should be trial by error in playtest.
Problem with the Raider rules is that Slavs were mostly raided part not raiders, so I don't know if Raider forces could work (I didn't got supplement either - as I was never tempted into Britain really. I got the Dux at sale as an afterthought and I was surprised how cool its campaign system is (although I am yet to play aa actual game - I am just easily bought by cool campaign systems and pretty maps and the general idea of fall of the old order :)
Generally I would be very shy with cavalry unless you want to play late Lithuania (ie more southern) But north Lithuania was not very supportive to cavalry use. Very heavily forested area. Only later in XIII century when Teutonic order destroyed Jaćwięgs Lithuania proper was targeted but under Mendog it was proper country and not tribal federation.
Northern tribes of Todays Poland and Lithuania were not Wends (Wends were Slavic) but Baltic tribes but I would guess that terrain use and light to medium infantry and tactics would be quite similar.
Although we know that Jaćwięgs herded Tarpan horses - very small forest horses - we don't know about their cavalry.
There are no archaeological findings of Prussians armor and also in written sources only defensive element they used was shield. Main armament consisted of spear, shield, sword or axe, there were throwing clubs, slings and there are know instance of them just throwing rocks.
In XIII century proper enemy for Samogitians /Curonians would be Fratres militiae Christi de Livonia and after disastrous 1236 - Teutonic Order.
Key of Baltic victory in 1236 was terrain unsuitable for heavy cavalry.
But at that late period tribal forces are just too obsolete to fight in other circumstances.
More interesting enemy would be Lithuanians under Mendog in 1240+
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These are my forces of the Livonian Order 1240. The Livonian order was a semi autonomous branch of the Teutonic Order. They were largely comprised of former Livonian Sword Brothers. After their loss to Alexander Nevsky at the famous battle of Lake Peipus 1242, the Livonian branch of the Teutonic Order lost their semi autonomy and were under the full control of the Teutonic Order.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-8ym-WBKaw8Y/VrUOABUwitI/AAAAAAAADWQ/-Afxgj6eqUI/w924-h520-no/0205161556.jpg)
Heavy Sergeants and bowmen militia from Riga
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_5QzWTYV4PA/VrUOAFhdW_I/AAAAAAAADWQ/o5fi542ceac/w924-h520-no/0205161557.jpg)
Brother Knights and mounted sergeants with crossbows
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-96ODzdX5AMU/VrUOAHwOAmI/AAAAAAAADWQ/zjEyZ-1Uemg/w924-h520-no/0205161557a.jpg)
Bishop and German Knights
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-xwHcaWEkHyg/VrUOLBn1hUI/AAAAAAAADWQ/T-gz-pkVM5Q/w924-h520-no/0205161558.jpg)
Livonian Brothers still retaining their heraldry
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-vliYKkfRygM/VrUOLFTBZTI/AAAAAAAADWQ/7oGEl4jBMZw/w924-h520-no/0205161558a.jpg)
Sergeants
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-HP70Pp3gdsQ/VrUOLMxCKoI/AAAAAAAADWQ/DYAR-R9AngQ/w924-h520-no/0205161559.jpg)
Teutonic Brother Knights
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-B7X4ylvj4zk/VrUOLDtHiJI/AAAAAAAADWQ/NELTtEDxGnk/w924-h520-no/0205161559a.jpg)
Sergeants with crossbows
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-w0piiyKxoug/VrUOLP9otII/AAAAAAAADWQ/3qKJdIhVzBs/w924-h520-no/0205161559b.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-A0VzgYEFALM/VrUOLMWG4ZI/AAAAAAAADWQ/WoZLYz2x3DY/w924-h520-no/0205161600.jpg)
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Really impressive display. :-*
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I think you might have painted not enough Samogoitians for this :D
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Impressive forces!! :o