Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Berg on 13 February 2016, 09:06:05 PM
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Hello,
A short background; Last summer i supported the nickstarter for frostgrave and while i waited for it to arrive i bought some historical plastic kits, among them was a box of Perry wotr-miniatures.
I have played a lot of frostgrave and painted loads of fantasy miniatures but for the last few months i have mostly built and painted Perry miniatures (close to 200 of them at the moment). I had no plan or thought when i started but i soon found a blog where someone (silverwhistle) had created fantastic scenes with these miniatures and i was sold.
I have lurked here for awhile and i know that this forum is packed with talent and knowledge so i was hoping i could get some help and at the same time push myself a little.
My biggest problems at the moment are
1) rules... i am torn between lion rampant and sharpe practice bur are there other rulesets for large skirmish actions?
2) I need to find a satisfactory setting for my miniatures, at the moment they are painted in whatever i wanted to paint with no real historical grounding.
3) Flags! This is connected with 2. I am toying with the idea of making up a historical fantasy setting based in ... Italy...or England.. or Scandinavia? Most of my miniatures are billmen and longbows and it might be difficult to pass them off as condottieri. Anyone else done something like this?
I also need to make and/or buy some terrain.
The point of this thread is to help me focus on this project and perhaps make me improve my hobby skills.
All comments are welcome!
I need to (learn to) take some decent pictures in the near future.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-l19loZIOh6c/Vr-b-19FIyI/AAAAAAAAAE8/IU-UlI-wObI/s1600/20160207_165351.jpg)
http://figurspel.blogspot.se/2016/02/medieval-madness.html (http://figurspel.blogspot.se/2016/02/medieval-madness.html)
/Berg
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They look good! Lion Rampant is a favorite of mine. That is the perfect size for me and Perry's go with Lion Rampant like peanut butter and jelly.
If you don't think you can pass them off as condottieri, you can probably pass them off as plain old mercenaries. As mercenaries, any medieval setting will work!
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I think you've done a great job on those, well done! :)
For my money Lion Rampant is ideal for first steps (or permanently) and as your collection grows you can always go for Sharp Practice at a later date (plus 2nd Edition is forthcoming before long, so not the best time to buy them).
The bill was particularly 'English' but most of the weapons in the Perry boxes lean towards more European styles that are similar, so not that much of an issue. Longbows were common all over Northern Europe, so no limits there either.
A lot of people have Wars of the Roses forces and simply make up their own forces and narrative within the bigger picture. Others go for historic participants based on the relatively little we know, but still play imaginary battles.
There are obviously other settings and Germany of the time was rife with petty conflicts, which is why I guess GW based 'The Empire' on it. Reference material can be hard to come by in English and often not much more is available in other languages.
An alternative is to use the Game of Thrones setting (or something like it), which is as near historical as fantasy gets... and there's some utility in combining that with your Frostgrave stuff.
I've always fancied Joe Abercrombie's 'First Law' setting, part of which features an island with a condottieri-style setting, but military styles elsewhere seem to be a fusion of Pride and Prejudice meets Shakespeare's Henry IV, VI and Mac Beth, with no gunpowder.
This is LAF, so whatever dark desires you harbour, someone will egg you on. ;)
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Kind of the same dilemma here. I've bought a few boxes of Perry Mercenaries to add pike men to my GW Empire troops but with the collapse of Warhammer fantasy I've been stuck with a partial Germanesque part English, Italian, Spanish Army if I play them historical. So I'm trying to figure out how to use these figures in a setting for games. I think I may just buy more Perry and do a late middle ages, early Renaissance and use my Empire troops in skirmish games like Frostgrave! So if you come up with a good solution ; holler!!
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Nice work on those figures, Berg :)
If you are pondering what to do with your Perry plastics, may I shamelessly pimp my Wars of the Roses thread: http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=40936.0
A historical, Wars of The Roses setting, but largely featuring a set of more-or-less invented noble families engaged in some local blood-letting.
And my Game of Thrones thread: http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=62778.0
By kit-bashing the Perry medievals with a few other bits and pieces, you can open up a whole world of pseudo-medieval fantasy...
I agree with Jim: Joe Abercrombie's 'First Law' setting would also be great - you could mix Perry medievals and Perry Napoleonics, which is appears to be what is portrayed - at least in terms of culture and wardrobe, although there is no battlefield gunpowder technology.
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I've bought a few boxes of Perry Mercenaries to add pike men to my GW Empire troops but with the collapse of Warhammer fantasy...
If fantasy is more your thing than historicals, there's Dragon Rampant from Osprey, which is the fantasy version of Lion Rampant, or if you are more a 'big battle' guy, Mantic's Kings of War is very much in the Warhammer mould, to the point they have lists for most of the armies from Warhammer (for free). They have their own world background and lists too, but I gather the idea was draw in 'Ex-whammers'.
The core rules are also free if you want to try before you buy and they and the lists are here: http://www.manticgames.com/free-rules.html
... I don't work for Mantic btw. lol
I agree with Jim: Joe Abercrombie's 'First Law' setting would also be great - you could mix Perry medievals and Perry Napoleonics, which is appears to be what is portrayed - at least in terms of culture and wardrobe, although there is no battlefield gunpowder technology.
I had a view of the web comic a while back and it totally destroyed my mental image, which was pretty much the same as yours... Reading between the images (and there weren't any of actual troops) it's sort of a Napoleonic-Medieval fusion with a dash of LOTR High Elves for the Union, while the Northerners are more like grubby 17th Century types without the frills.
http://www.firstlawcomic.com/archive/
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Thanks for the comments!
@ Arlequín: I have read what you have written about using dragon rampant for Wotr (and most everything else you have on your blog, very inspiring). I really should try to play a couple of games soon. I have sharpe practice and have played a few games in the napoleonic era, everyone except me hated the game. Sharpe practice 2 coming was new to me, thats exciting!
@ Miantanomo: You do have a point about the mercenary aspect
@ Captain Blood: You really dont need to pimp your threads! I have read every page more than once and they are one of the causes i keep buying and painting those perry miniatures :)
I have decided (and started) to rebase all of the miniatures on 20mm steel washers and adding sand and grass. they are at the moment on 2mm thick mdf and keeps falling of the movement trays with the slightest nudge.
I will post some pics with the finished bases later.
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Thanks... I'm all talk though, just to be clear. :D
Memory might fail me, but I seem to recall Sharp Practice 2 might be with us as soon as Salute. http://toofatlardies.co.uk/blog/?p=5404
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Apologies for going slightly OT but......
Memory might fail me, but I seem to recall Sharp Practice 2 might be with us as soon as Salute. http://toofatlardies.co.uk/blog/?p=5404
I do hope so as it would make a great set of rules for the Indian Mutiny/First War of Independence!! 8)
Darrell.
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Indeed and I gather there's a couple of add-ins from other games, such as the force morale system from CoC... which will definitely enhance the game. SP was very good, flexible and challenging, SP2 promises to be the same and then some.
I will be at the ready to bend and twist it where it doesn't really want to go of course. ::)
:D
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Good work thus far! Thank you for sharing.
I would echo the adventurers above and encourage you to consider two paths:
1) More historical - Use them for WotR with Lion Rampant or perhaps another rules set. You might take a gander at Silent Invader's creation:
"By Arrow Bill and Sword" (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=48144.0)
You've probably seen the amazing games in Captain Blood's threads they've played using these.
The pro's for this are:
> Exploring a historical alternative to your fantasy gaming
> Lots of great reading material, art, visual references
> Great inspiration and counsel from the brain trust on this forum
Since he didn't promote it, I would encourage you to look at Arlequin's blog for some thoughtful approaches to adapting Lion Rampant to the WotR setting along with guidelines for a mini-campaign. That might galvanize something for you.
"Lion Rampant ant the Wars of the Roses Revisited" (http://arlequinsworld.blogspot.com/2015/05/lion-rampant-wars-of-roses-revisited.html)
2) On the other hand, you might consider historical-fantasy kitbashing medieval kits into Game of Thrones forces using Lion/Dragon Rampant.
There's a trove of projects in a compendium thread over in the Fantasy Adventures forum:
"LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread" (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=87146.0)
Some pro's for this:
> Greater freedom to paint and kitbash your models if you feel constrained or overwhelmed by sticking to WotR / Burgundian history.
> Lion/Dragon Rampant is nicely scaled for manageable forces with retinues totallying ~48 models. Sounds like you have enough figures to muster
a few!
> You can scale up to mass-battle rulesets when you have enough models painted. (If that's any sort of ambition you might have.)
Some thoughts.
DG
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Good work thus far! Thank you for sharing.
I would echo the adventurers above and encourage you to consider two paths:
1) More historical - Use them for WotR with Lion Rampant or perhaps another rules set. You might take a gander at Silent Invader's creation:
"By Arrow Bill and Sword" (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=48144.0)
You've probably seen the amazing games in Captain Blood's threads they've played using these.
The pro's for this are:
> Exploring a historical alternative to your fantasy gaming
> Lots of great reading material, art, visual references
> Great inspiration and counsel from the brain trust on this forum
Since he didn't promote it, I would encourage you to look at Arlequin's blog for some thoughtful approaches to adapting Lion Rampant to the WotR setting along with guidelines for a mini-campaign. That might galvanize something for you.
"Lion Rampant ant the Wars of the Roses Revisited" (http://arlequinsworld.blogspot.com/2015/05/lion-rampant-wars-of-roses-revisited.html)
2) On the other hand, you might consider historical-fantasy kitbashing medieval kits into Game of Thrones forces using Lion/Dragon Rampant.
There's a trove of projects in a compendium thread over in the Fantasy Adventures forum:
"LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread" (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=87146.0)
Some pro's for this:
> Greater freedom to paint and kitbash your models if you feel constrained or overwhelmed by sticking to WotR / Burgundian history.
> Lion/Dragon Rampant is nicely scaled for manageable forces with retinues totallying ~48 models. Sounds like you have enough figures to muster
a few!
> You can scale up to mass-battle rulesets when you have enough models painted. (If that's any sort of ambition you might have.)
Some thoughts.
DG
Thanks for the input!
If i manage to stay focused it will surely be some kind of larger battles in the future. I am more drawn to historical rather than fantasy with this project (i have an outlet for all my fantasy inspiration in frostgrave).
I keep visiting Arlequíns blog and his post on the february 13 really put words on what i wanted to do but didnt realise, sort of... :o
Earlier this month i took advantage of the osprey 25% off ( I ordered: German medieval armies 1300-1500; English medieval knight 1400-1500; The wars of the Roses and Condottiere 1300-1500) and the books arrived today! The selection of books should give a hint about my lack of theme.
While slowly and painfully rebasing miniatures this evening i had a couple of thoughts. I should paint up a few extra flag bearers for each of my small forces. With the help of different flags and a few "iconic" units i can make them fit in different settings.
I am pleased with the way they look with a little sand and grass on the bases, will take some pictures tomorrow.
/Berg
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RE standard bearers I saw an article somewhere about making flags where the slid over the standard pole rather than being stuck to it
HE then was able to change flags to match the setting
Never tried it myself and can't remember where I read it but it may help a little
Good luck and love the figures - so much better than my mercenaries that I have ot he go
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RE standard bearers I saw an article somewhere about making flags where the slid over the standard pole rather than being stuck to it
HE then was able to change flags to match the setting
Never tried it myself and can't remember where I read it but it may help a little
You could also maybe replace the plastic flag poles with metal wire ones, drill the hands out for them, and maybe the whole flag with flagpole could be slid in and out. I've considered doing this myself.
Or just paint up some extra standard bearers!
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Since he didn't promote it...
I'm English and was brought up properly, we just don't do that sort of thing. *sniff*. ;)
I keep visiting Arlequíns blog and his post on the february 13 really put words on what i wanted to do but didnt realise, sort of... :o
It's nothing original and owes its beginnings in the coverage of fantasy projects on LAF like 'Breugelburg' and even going back to the old WFRP 'Marienburg' supplement... just because I'm all historical and that, doesn't mean I've not got a fun side... honest.
But yes a back story and a 'world of their own' is important to me and all part of the parcel... even the Captain's and SI's own figures have their own narratives and reason for being, it might only be one line, but nevertheless it's there.
:)
DT's summation is good and there is no reason why you even have to plant your feet firmly in one camp or another, just see how it goes.
As for your spread of books, they will all come in useful whichever way you go. For a society without motor transport, professional soldiers got about quite a bit across Europe. Polish winged hussars in 15th Century England might be pushing the boundaries, but Germans, Swiss and Spanish pop-up in the WotR and of course the English can be found as far away as Italy.
GoT obviously draws its demographics from a wide swathe of European history (both time-wise and culturally), so each 'ethnic' part of the whole has its own style too. Pretty much whatever you do can drop in somewhere in the setting.
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I'm English and was brought up properly, we just don't do that sort of thing. *sniff*. ;)
That's what us pushy Yanks do - market and sell, baby! ;)
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Since schools are closed this week i have stayed home from work with the kids a couple of days, and managed some hobby time between activities.
I borrowed my wifes camera and took some pictures of the first batch of rebased minis.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5q4ldZlILis/VsMR4chxLdI/AAAAAAAAAFY/X2D0mU4GpFw/s1600/Guns.JPG)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-BPpj2K7GyJk/VsMRezeWFII/AAAAAAAAAFM/qec_WW_jfIs/s1600/Bills.JPG)
There are a couple of more pictures on the blog:
http://figurspel.blogspot.se/2016/02/rebasing-first-batch.html
/Berg
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Dude...those are the bees knees...
I'm going to invest in Perry WoTR as well and use "Lion Rampant" rules...
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Very impressive! :-*
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Excellent miniatures. I especialy like the dark tones on the handgunner unit.
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They look great. Well done.
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Looking good. I agree the dark tones on the handgunners makes them look particularly menacing...
As for extra standard bearers, I've converted handgunner arms and hands into standard bearers with some success for my Westeros project. If you look closely you can see the telltale ring on the R hand
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/IMAG1043_zps9f690df5.jpg)
While simple but careful scalpel brutality and pin drilling to bill wielding hands can be equally effective and wire substitutions made into standards. Either way I'd advocate kitbashing the Perry European Mercenaries set as the most promising conversion-wise .
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Thats some creative use of the handgunner arms! I am planning on using the spear arms from the new perry kit to give me some extra standard bearers.
I have made a small update on my blog (wich i have decided to show some more attention from now on)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-zAMANPZKjYg/VsYoTMDPTkI/AAAAAAAAAFw/51UoWj4Bot0/s1600/Bygg2.jpg)
/Berg
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I have rebased the next retinue and tried to make some trees. There are a few more pictures at my blog if anyone is interested.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0JGQIq3cesQ/VsiLuaVmmmI/AAAAAAAAAGQ/rlVM3ETcM8Q/s1600/Trees.JPG)
http://figurspel.blogspot.se/2016/02/some-more-miniatures-rebased-and-some.html
/Berg
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Wow, fantastic trees! That's just how I'm planning to base my trees when I get round to them, they look great. Are they all made from the armature kits? How did you paint the trunks?
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Great figures and nice trees, when I was painting my perry wotr figs I based them singly to use with lion rampant and sabot based them for basic impetus , which I know is getting re done but you can get two very different gaming experiences with similar numbers of figures.
Best Iain
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Wow, fantastic trees! That's just how I'm planning to base my trees when I get round to them, they look great. Are they all made from the armature kits? How did you paint the trunks?
I was rather pleased with how they turned out, they are all woodland scenics tree armatures.
Pantied with GW Dryad bark to make them look less plastic and then drybrushed with GW Zandri dust.
I have about 20 more with finished trees only need to do the bases.
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The trees are rather lovely, and a good setting for your figures. Now my thinking about my own GOT forces is beginning to be distilled by the Lion Rampant rules, I'm looking forward to painting up my own figures to hopefully emulate the lovely units you are assembling.
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Trees look ace :-* :-* :-*
Might have to give that a try myself- the tree armatures look excellent and not half as bad as I thought when I've looked at them over the years (granted, they were in the packet!) :)
Darrell.
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I agree with Atheling, they look nothing in the packet. I'd hazard a guess that over the years we both haven't given them a second glance in the model shops. Now I'm not so sure...
Having spent endless hours twisting wire for tree armatures ::), I'm seriously leaning towards getting some of these for variety.
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nice figures and trees
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Thanks for the kind comments! The trees are pretty easy to do and i find it rather relaxing :) . Maybe i should make a short step by step guide?
/Berg
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I agree with Atheling, they look nothing in the packet. I'd hazard a guess that over the years we both haven't given them a second glance in the model shops. Now I'm not so sure...
Having spent endless hours twisting wire for tree armatures ::), I'm seriously leaning towards getting some of these for variety.
Do it! The spruce up well. (pardon the pun)
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Some nice stuff here. Cant wait to see more.
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Thanks for the kind comments! The trees are pretty easy to do and i find it rather relaxing :) . Maybe i should make a short step by step guide?
/Berg
Definitely.
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Thanks for the kind comments! The trees are pretty easy to do and i find it rather relaxing :)
[/quote
I found the same thing. I have been working on a small forest the last couple of weekendseconds using the same materials.
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I have made a quick posting on my blog about how i make my trees, hope it can be of use to someone.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xH2IlXHlfVY/Vs3s5zzwh4I/AAAAAAAAAGs/AZliKAEoMBk/s1600/Bild2.JPG)
More at my blog: http://figurspel.blogspot.se/2016/02/treemaking.html
/Berg
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nice how to and nice blog
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I have also had a similar experience with Woodland Scenics Hob E Tac. Probably fine if you are making a huge batch of trees for a static display but to delicate for handling.
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I have also had a similar experience with Woodland Scenics Hob E Tac. Probably fine if you are making a huge batch of trees for a static display but to delicate for handling.
Agreed. I've had better luck with hot glue. But you need to be careful with the "spiderwebs".
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Agreed. I've had better luck with hot glue. But you need to be careful with the "spiderwebs".
Exactly! lol
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a modelling BOGOF for LoTR/The Hobbit - trees AND webs! lol
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a modelling BOGOF for LoTR/The Hobbit - trees AND webs! lol
Jacked up webby hot glue trees? Problem solved! Stage a Battle Under the Trees (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mirkwood) scenario and call it all good. lol
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I have been occupied with too much real world stuff lately but i now have some time for quick update on my blog.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-aNlQrIsbxYk/VvKKOI39rvI/AAAAAAAAAHQ/oaKjTOpMngsVR5WQL-OHZgFu4qC4cnodw/s1600/IMG_1151.JPG)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hOAhdRfK8Zg/VvKLuHzcACI/AAAAAAAAAH0/Foc0WW4MZ5AzBvY2vY1MBANYjRcEURmEQ/s1600/IMG_1161.JPG)
I have also started another retinue with an italian touch, more on this later.
Regards
Johan
http://figurspel.blogspot.se/2016/03/finished-rebasing-last-retinue.html
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I had my first game of lion rampant and it was a rather fun game.
I remebered to take some pictures too!
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-w9g3oHPLHr0/Vwp2FBzhMnI/AAAAAAAAAJU/eRBKD9UE7LQvuqk41f_fRBupTSXEEk5lQ/s1600/IMG_1189.JPG)
A few more pictures at my blog:
http://figurspel.blogspot.se/2016/04/first-game-of-lion-rampant.html
/Johan