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Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: throwsFireball on 08 March 2016, 06:44:57 PM

Title: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: throwsFireball on 08 March 2016, 06:44:57 PM
Welp, that's it. I'm a Gesso convert now.

Just switched it up and it's so much better. None of the problems that plague spraying and beautiful even coverage (and even if it wasn't, I can just dab on the spots I missed).

Completely converted.

I recommend anyone who's still spraying does too.
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: DELTADOG on 08 March 2016, 06:55:08 PM
O.o....????

You talk of this viscuose white Acrylic primer thing?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61EwiXo7v7L._SX425_.jpg)
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: throwsFireball on 08 March 2016, 07:23:01 PM
O.o....????

You talk of this viscuose white Acrylic primer thing?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61EwiXo7v7L._SX425_.jpg)


Yep. As compared to sprays.
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: FramFramson on 08 March 2016, 09:12:02 PM
Been using black gesso for ages (I should try to mix it and give gray a go though). Nothing beats it.
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: Mr. Peabody on 08 March 2016, 09:20:33 PM
I've been using Holbein grey gesso for years.

Pro-tip: dilute it 50/50 with water and it airbrushes beautifully. Don't know about other brands, but the Holbein won't break or weaken when mixed this way.

Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: Jacksarge on 08 March 2016, 10:31:11 PM
I have been using an Australian brand of Gesso for several years called "Derivan Matisse Background", it's great on metals plastic and resin.
I use a shade called "Gum Tree Green", gives a really useful grey green neutral ground for paint.
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: Mr. Peabody on 08 March 2016, 10:37:38 PM
Oh, that's a pretty darn cool colour for a gesso...   :-*

Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: SteveBurt on 10 March 2016, 05:58:28 PM
Liquitex do a clear Gesso.
Add whatever colour takes your fancy.
It has more of a 'tooth' than the white or black gesso, though, so may not be suitable for things with fine detail.
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: grant on 10 March 2016, 06:36:23 PM
I've been using Holbein grey gesso for years.

Pro-tip: dilute it 50/50 with water and it airbrushes beautifully. Don't know about other brands, but the Holbein won't break or weaken when mixed this way.



That's intriguing. I use Vallejo airbrush primers and they've been stellar but might try that. I usually mix my own colours for the primers too, and it's been a lifesaver for base colour.
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: Mr. Peabody on 10 March 2016, 06:48:40 PM
For model kits and especially for resin, I use the coloured Vallejo Surface Primers. I agree, they are fantastic.

I'll only use the Gesso for minis. Although way, way back I did use it for a Gundam kind of thing and it worked just fine.
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: gary42 on 10 March 2016, 09:31:12 PM
And you can get spray Gesso at Wal-Mart type places.  I cleaned em' out in my little town.  Love Gesso then tried the spray stuff!  Love it!
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: Charlie_ on 10 March 2016, 11:57:14 PM
Ok, I'm lost, what's Gesso?
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: rebelyell2006 on 11 March 2016, 12:21:55 AM
Ok, I'm lost, what's Gesso?

It's a thick liquid that hardens very closely to the surface it is painted on.  Basically, a brushable acrylic primer mixed with a hardening substance.  I think some brands use gypsum or chalk as a hardener.  

It's great for plastics and metal, sorta okay for wood.  It doesn't go on well to cardboard.
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: FramFramson on 11 March 2016, 06:46:50 AM
For the record, it predates acrylic and doesn't need to be acrylic. It's any glue (or primer medium) + pigment (usually white) + gypsum or chalk. Modern acrylic gesso technically isn't gesso at all, but it's very similar and the same idea (a chalk or gypsum added to a primer material).
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: Zaheer on 11 March 2016, 11:52:51 AM
I use gesso myself, System3 both black and white. And although I won't go back, I do find that the black has a slight sheen on it. Without meaning to derail to OP's thread too much can anyone recommend a truly matt black gesso?
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: rebelyell2006 on 12 March 2016, 02:10:19 AM
I've been using the Bob Ross brand gesso recently, and it doesn't leave a noticeable sheen.  It also isn't completely black, but more of a very dark chocolate brown.
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: FramFramson on 12 March 2016, 03:28:37 AM
I use gesso myself, System3 both black and white. And although I won't go back, I do find that the black has a slight sheen on it. Without meaning to derail to OP's thread too much can anyone recommend a truly matt black gesso?
I use Liquitex and it's dead matte, almost chalky in texture.
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: Billchuck on 12 March 2016, 03:52:38 AM
I use Liquitex and it's dead matte, almost chalky in texture.

Agreed. And I've thinned it with alcohol and airbrushed it with no problems. It probably works just as well with water, but I haven't tried that.
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: throwsFireball on 12 March 2016, 04:08:10 AM
I use gesso myself, System3 both black and white. And although I won't go back, I do find that the black has a slight sheen on it. Without meaning to derail to OP's thread too much can anyone recommend a truly matt black gesso?
Agreed. And I've thinned it with alcohol and airbrushed it with no problems. It probably works just as well with water, but I haven't tried that.

Liquitex is completely matte, but it's definitely NOT pure dead black. It's more like a very, very, very dark grey. Which is perfect for a base coat, but if you want really deep shadows you'll have to paint black into the spots.
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: Zaheer on 16 March 2016, 07:47:37 AM
Liquitex is completely matte, but it's definitely NOT pure dead black. It's more like a very, very, very dark grey. Which is perfect for a base coat, but if you want really deep shadows you'll have to paint black into the spots.

Sounds worth a look. Thanks
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: gary42 on 16 March 2016, 02:03:34 PM
I just read on a Warlord paint tip area that you can prime black and then hit a spray of white from directly above to help with hi-lights.  I have brush on black Gesso and spray white.  I'm going to try it!
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: throwsFireball on 16 March 2016, 02:05:06 PM
I just read on a Warlord paint tip area that you can prime black and then hit a spray of white from directly above to help with hi-lights.  I have brush on black Gesso and spray white.  I'm going to try it!

Personally I'd rather gesso then drybrush.

...I just hate spraying. It's ruined at least five models and I refuse to let it ruin more. :(
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: tomrommel1 on 17 March 2016, 10:12:26 AM
use Bob Ross as well works a treat
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: gary42 on 17 March 2016, 01:56:31 PM
Personally I'd rather gesso then drybrush.

...I just hate spraying. It's ruined at least five models and I refuse to let it ruin more. :(

Yikes!  How did it the primer ruin the models?
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: throwsFireball on 17 March 2016, 01:59:29 PM
Yikes!  How did it the primer ruin the models?

I live in one of the rainiest parts of the sunniest country in the world. England.

Humidity etc means frosting. Some of my 15mm are especially bad. Just wrecks the models.
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: gary42 on 18 March 2016, 05:19:04 AM
Spray primer causes frosting?  I'ver seen spray varnish cloud but never seen a primer cause paint to frost up. Especially  spray Gesso.  Learn sumthin' new every day.
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: throwsFireball on 18 March 2016, 05:23:34 AM
Spray primer causes frosting?  I'ver seen spray varnish cloud but never seen a primer cause paint to frost up. Especially  spray Gesso.  Learn sumthin' new every day.

Sorry, I mean when...

Like...

Errr...

You know the underspray gets all spikey and stuff? Like it's became a very angry hedgehog? That's what happens.
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: SteveBurt on 18 March 2016, 11:31:19 AM
Sprays are the work of the devil.
They smell terrible.
They don't work when it is too damp.
They don't work when it is too cold.
They clog up.

I try to stick with brushes.
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: gary42 on 18 March 2016, 02:03:49 PM
Fingers crossed!  Never had any trouble yet.  I live in a rain forest too!:)  I do spray outside of course.  I love to tooth it gives.  Great adhesion for painting.  Maybe the Gesso spray is different than other primers?  I definitely wouldn't use a spray for a final clear coat but as a primer I'very  painted hundreds of minis with only great results.
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: Mr. Peabody on 18 March 2016, 03:25:18 PM
Maybe the Gesso spray is different than other primers?

You can buy aerosol Gesso cans - but that would kind of defeat the intent behind a switch to Gesso.

Sprays are the work of the devil...  I try to stick with brushes.

Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: gary42 on 18 March 2016, 05:51:47 PM
I thought it was to get a nice base with enough tooth to bind the paint you intend to add later and get a colour consistency as well as to prevent paint peeling of bare metal.  I guess I'm the guy who's had good luck with it:)

Whatever works boys!:)
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: Sir Barnaby Hammond-Rye on 19 March 2016, 07:27:52 PM
I've always thought of Gesso as something you lay on with a trowel. Is this something for vehicles and terrain only or can you use it on figures w/o obscuring the details?
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: throwsFireball on 19 March 2016, 07:37:18 PM
I've always thought of Gesso as something you lay on with a trowel. Is this something for vehicles and terrain only or can you use it on figures w/o obscuring the details?

There's a teeny tiny loss of detail, as the gesso "rounds out" the features a bit. It's minor, though, and I'm too shitty a painter to ever notice.

Example taken from a Dakka Dakka gesso guide:

(http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/2008/8/2005-09-14_G3_07541_460x-31024202.jpg)
(http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/2008/8/2005-09-14_G3_07545_460x-31024234.jpg)
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: Vermis on 20 March 2016, 03:07:13 AM
Same guide that got me to try gesso, when it was still hosted on Tinysoldiers or whatever it was called. Though it only seems to work with the black gesso I bought, and I don't blob it on quite as thick. The shrinking effect is still handy when you just want to scrub it on and not worry about thin layers, though.
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: grant on 20 March 2016, 02:10:53 PM
use Bob Ross as well works a treat

Plus all your trees are happy little trees.
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: FramFramson on 20 March 2016, 06:24:15 PM
There's a teeny tiny loss of detail, as the gesso "rounds out" the features a bit. It's minor, though, and I'm too shitty a painter to ever notice.

Example taken from a Dakka Dakka gesso guide:

(http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/2008/8/2005-09-14_G3_07541_460x-31024202.jpg)
(http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/2008/8/2005-09-14_G3_07545_460x-31024234.jpg)

Gesso should go on quite thin. I suspect you'll get rounded details if you take the advice to "Just glop it on" literally. Yes, gesso does shrink, but you should paint it on properly or it will pool and pile like any paint or primer if abused or applied lazily.
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: Vermis on 29 March 2016, 02:23:42 PM
Another reason to use gesso. Every time I look out the window and the sun is baking the earth and there are no clouds in sight, and I think 'ooh, good spraying weather', and get all me stuff gathered and prepared, within a minute of pressing the trigger, it starts to rain. Or a mini tornado blows in from somewhere. Or both, like five minutes ago. >:( Never fails! I'm thinking of hiring myself out to drought areas.
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: rebelyell2006 on 29 March 2016, 10:56:27 PM
You have to be careful in drought areas.  In mountain/desert and high plains areas, you'll get wind-blown dust in your wet paint if you spray-prime outside.  Luckily the humidity is so low that the gesso will dry five minutes or less.
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: sundayhero on 31 March 2016, 05:59:01 PM
I also used gesso on several metal minis (and even on 15mm, it doesn't hide details) but I found that it was not as sturdy as my usual cheap acrylic mate spray paint I'm using for priming usually. I can scratch the gesso coat with my nail, wich is something I cannot do with my spray paint coating.

Any other LAF member encountered the same behaviour ?
Title: Re: I Converted to Gesso
Post by: FramFramson on 31 March 2016, 07:12:43 PM
Yep.