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Miniatures Adventure => Future Wars => Topic started by: twrchtrwyth on 11 March 2016, 10:39:16 PM

Title: Genestealer hybrid recast?
Post by: twrchtrwyth on 11 March 2016, 10:39:16 PM
Is this a recast?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CITADEL-Wh40k-Rogue-Trader-oop-80s-Genestealer-Hybrid-06-Metal-/222045204310?hash=item33b2ecef56:g:gkoAAOSwr7ZW3I0d
Title: Re: Genestealer hybrid recast?
Post by: throwsFireball on 11 March 2016, 11:09:50 PM
Honestly, it's impossible to tell.

Some things to note:
1. Metal recasts are VERY rare, at least from major recasters. Small scale ones may prefer them, but they're still rarer than some cheap resin.
2. This guy moves a lot of OOP Warhammer stock. Literally ALL OOP Warhammer Fantasy / 40k stuff, and he's done over 650 transactions.
3. These look to be perfect quality, without any damage or marks from removal of paint.
3a. Despite this, they are not NIB.
4. The stock he moves seems to be varied, but I've flicked through and seen a few of the same item (Nurgle Palanquin #1) being sold a few times which is very suspicious.
5. If they are recasts, they're PERFECT recasts, so who cares?

I'd say there's about a 90% chance of these being recasts but he's probably buying them from someone. I'd really like to find out who.
Title: Re: Genestealer hybrid recast?
Post by: Daeothar on 11 March 2016, 11:22:22 PM
As far as I know, the hybrid arms were never released in metal. So I would find it quite a find if these were real.

But he's got not just this one, but many up for auction right now, which is a major flag to me. I could be wrong, but what are the odds of him having 17 hybrids up for sale, with all of them with exactly the same sets of arms (in metal!), and all of them in the same state? The metal quality and colour is exactly the same on all of them, which I find a bit odd as well and not what I'd expect after two decades...  :?
Title: Re: Genestealer hybrid recast?
Post by: harleyface on 11 March 2016, 11:58:39 PM
Can only say my opinion..
Have a lot of experience with battletech unseen recasts...bad ones
Good thing..recast are often selled painted to hide poor quality
This one is good quality..but i think it is a recast.
Like said the arms were never available in metal...
The peg
The other offers..
Would never buy it...
My opinion
Title: Re: Genestealer hybrid recast?
Post by: rwwin on 12 March 2016, 05:16:46 AM
I agree that the excelent condition of the minis is suspicious, but I do believe the arms were available in metal at some point.  I have at least two metal hybrid figures that have the duel arm/claw combo.  Here's a link to a site that has some info on the old metal figs:

http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/Genestealers_(First_Edition)_-_Collectors_Guide (http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/Genestealers_(First_Edition)_-_Collectors_Guide)
Title: Re: Genestealer hybrid recast?
Post by: 3 fingers on 12 March 2016, 06:43:10 AM
The tab at the bottom is bit of a giveaway,surely?
Title: Re: Genestealer hybrid recast?
Post by: Wachaza on 12 March 2016, 08:03:20 AM
GW released some terrible casts at various stages. The metal arms are  unusual but were sent out when GW didn't bother getting another run of the plastic sprues done when they were selling hybrids only through mail order. Without handling it it's impossible to say if it's a recast or not.
Title: Re: Genestealer hybrid recast?
Post by: harleyface on 12 March 2016, 08:17:43 AM
Didnt know rhose arms were available in metal....
But so many oop minis in new condition....well its possible...we are all collectors
But sentences like...
You buy what you see without more information is tipycal...
Collectors normaly write what they got..
Its like avoidig false facts..
Like i said im burned because of battletech unseens....
Title: Re: Genestealer hybrid recast?
Post by: harleyface on 12 March 2016, 08:24:56 AM
And he has a lot of hybrids all wuth metal arms..
None with the more popular plastic..
Title: Re: Genestealer hybrid recast?
Post by: Daeothar on 12 March 2016, 08:50:12 AM
GW released some terrible casts at various stages. The metal arms are  unusual but were sent out when GW didn't bother getting another run of the plastic sprues done when they were selling hybrids only through mail order. Without handling it it's impossible to say if it's a recast or not.

Be that as it may, when looking at the different sets of arms he has up with his minis, I noticed that the claw arms all have the same damage to the forearm (a cut/gash near the top of the vambrace), something not present in the plastic version or in the pictures of them on CCM.

And that points to all of his having the same original, which would support the theory of these being recast...  :?
Title: Re: Genestealer hybrid recast?
Post by: Penchour on 12 March 2016, 08:50:48 AM
Bought several times from the seller, and always had regular stripped miniatures. That said, I never saw metal arms on Genestealers ...
Title: Re: Genestealer hybrid recast?
Post by: Wachaza on 12 March 2016, 09:03:49 AM
Have a look at his completed listings. All very different stuff. Looks like someone disposing of a collection.

Were I in the recasting "business" I wouldn't waste my time on what he's selling. Recasters typically do valuable things like the skulz mechanicus and keep selling the same lots of minis over and over.
Title: Re: Genestealer hybrid recast?
Post by: throwsFireball on 12 March 2016, 09:25:48 AM
Asked around on some of the recasting places. Half of them said, "Definitely recasts" and half of them said, "No way of knowing".

Be that as it may, when looking at the different sets of arms he has up with his minis, I noticed that the claw arms all have the same damage to the forearm (a cut/gash near the top of the vambrace), something not present in the plastic version or in the pictures of them on CCM.

And that points to all of his having the same original, which would support the theory of these being recast...  :?

So you can see what Daeothar is saying:

(http://i.imgur.com/RtyN6lV.png)

Were I in the recasting "business" I wouldn't waste my time on what he's selling. Recasters typically do valuable things like the skulz mechanicus and keep selling the same lots of minis over and over.

I flicked through his sold list. He's got three of the same things (stuff like having two seated patriarchs and about three walking patriarchs) sold.
Title: Re: Genestealer hybrid recast?
Post by: beefcake on 12 March 2016, 10:16:12 AM
Sells a lot of very rare stuff. In light of these looking highly suspect, you've really got to question the other stuff he is selling.

You never know though, perhaps he has got some genuine metal arms, a whole lot of them and wanted to save time photographing them by using the same ones over and over. Doubtful.
Title: Re: Genestealer hybrid recast?
Post by: Freelancer on 12 March 2016, 11:23:42 AM
Recast

I've got one of the originals of that hybrid, and apart from the metal arms, there is less depth around the face under the hood. The original has clear crisp contrast. This one doesn't. I know Genestealers are back in vogue now, but its a strange time to be selling recasts. The new plastic hybrids are coming up resonably cheap from people splitting up Overkill.
Title: Re: Genestealer hybrid recast?
Post by: Maledrakh on 12 March 2016, 11:45:04 AM
After seeing the stock on offer, I would be surprised if these are not recasts. As was earlier pointed out, there is a suspiciously similar quality/ colour of metal across all the pictures, no traces of stripping, multiples of the same mini, and only this quality of mini on offer. No old collections, no built or painted minis, just the bare metals.
Title: Re: Genestealer hybrid recast?
Post by: RAD on 12 March 2016, 11:53:16 AM
Hard to tell really but in the early nineties the mail order offered quite various RT out of the current catalogue with former plastic arms cast in metal (white metal). I've bought an entire RT imperial guard army with those, so i'd guess they could have done the same with hybrids...
Title: Re: Genestealer hybrid recast?
Post by: Legiocustodes on 12 March 2016, 09:28:25 PM
Definitely recasts.

Detail lacks depth; prominent flash; tab....

I've been stung before and am now very wary!
Title: Re: Genestealer hybrid recast?
Post by: dieselmonkey on 15 March 2016, 08:46:22 AM
As far as I know, the hybrid arms were never released in metal. So I would find it quite a find if these were real.

Yes, they were. When the Mail Order 'Bitz' Service finally ran out of plastic arms for IG, Squats and GS Hybrids in the mid-late 90's, they had all the plastic arms cast up in metal.

It wouldn't surprise me if these were real, as if they were bought from MO in the late 90's, they'd have metal arms *and* the moulds would be absolutely shot, hence the crappy cast quality in Lead Free metal.
Title: Re: Genestealer hybrid recast?
Post by: audrey on 15 March 2016, 04:12:33 PM
Unfortunately on eBay sellers can take pictures to hide that it is a recast. The small messed up tab is a giveaway (like others mentioned). I bought some Sisters of Battle off eBay and when they arrived I immediately knew they were a recast because of how thin the figures were. I was lucky and got my money refunded. But here is a picture.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31033538/ebay/SOB-ebay2.jpg)

-Audrey
Title: Re: Genestealer hybrid recast?
Post by: Wachaza on 15 March 2016, 05:34:31 PM
Comparing two different figures from either end of the range's chronology isn't a fair test, though the leg on the right mini does look a bit iffy.

As I've already said GW put some terrible casts out when they went Mail Order only. I've certainly had crappy slotta tabs direct from GW Mail Order.
Title: Re: Genestealer hybrid recast?
Post by: throwsFireball on 15 March 2016, 05:57:00 PM
Unfortunately on eBay sellers can take pictures to hide that it is a recast. The small messed up tab is a giveaway (like others mentioned). I bought some Sisters of Battle off eBay and when they arrived I immediately knew they were a recast because of how thin the figures were. I was lucky and got my money refunded. But here is a picture.

<snip>

-Audrey

Wow, that's a bad recast. I've bought quite a few off people and I've never seen anything that bad.

And, honestly, most people will give you refunds as long as you return their stock. As the 1d4chan page says, "They're more interested in ripping off Games Workshop than ripping off you."

Also, what Wachaza said. I've had some REALLY bad miniatures from Privateer Press.
Title: Re: Genestealer hybrid recast?
Post by: area23 on 15 March 2016, 08:19:00 PM
I've got my purestrains from Mailorder in the late 1990's I believe and they came with metal arms and claws. All cast in white metal in old moulds. Also the Goodwin Magii and hybrids with detail definately not perfect anymore at the time. Still good enough but not as crisp as they should be.
In the same period I got some other chaos and skaven models, same white metal cast in old moulds with some details lost.

Just to say that the quality above is no proof of recasting, imho.
Title: Re: Genestealer hybrid recast?
Post by: Jonas on 15 March 2016, 09:58:54 PM
Most of the miniatures he is selling has perfectly fine tabs and also some a clearly stripped.