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Miniatures Adventure => Pikes, Muskets and Flouncy Shirts => Topic started by: dragonwagon on May 14, 2016, 08:11:41 PM

Title: Italian wars or WOTR
Post by: dragonwagon on May 14, 2016, 08:11:41 PM
I have been collecting 28mm figures from various companies, mostly GW and Perrys with odds and sods amongst.   I have 16 barded hose, 46 pike, 40 harqbusiers, 30 crossbows 25 swordsmen, 16 twohanders, and various command and musicians.  I guess I'm asking should I go with Italian wars or War of the Roses?  I cant afford to do both, yet I love both!  They each have really cool features about them.  Any ideas or tips or just random thoughts can help immensely. Thanx in advance for any help!!  Also if I do either war; suggestions of additional troop types is totally welcome!!!
Title: Re: Italian wars or WOTR
Post by: Tym on May 14, 2016, 10:22:50 PM
Italian wars has more options?  Could you give the units double Command bases one Italian and one WoR?
Title: Re: Italian wars or WOTR
Post by: Duff on May 14, 2016, 11:12:35 PM
Italian wars, the cod pieces are more impressive.
Title: Re: Italian wars or WOTR
Post by: Stuart on May 14, 2016, 11:16:24 PM
If you want to collect out of the box and have no gaps I'd say WOTR is very well covered, particularly in plastic.

That in itself is a prohibited reason to consider the Italian wars but it is a fantastic period; Whatever army you go for there are limitations in full availability of appropriate figures and you may have to make compromises but to be honest that's why I like it. In a sense you can put your own take on it and really make it your own.

It depends what your other motivations are after expense. I think WOTR is cheaper all round in terms of figures and resources but for my part the Italian wars really gets me thinking and keeps me enthused.
Title: Re: Italian wars or WOTR
Post by: FierceKitty on May 15, 2016, 01:13:09 AM
No question, I'd say. Italian wars have far more possibilities, and were more important in their historical effects, as far as one can be sure of these things.
Title: Re: Italian wars or WOTR
Post by: vcina on May 15, 2016, 06:04:10 AM
Italian Wars
Title: Re: Italian wars or WOTR
Post by: Sunjester on May 15, 2016, 09:23:08 AM
I love both, but if I had to pick one I'd say Italian Wars because of the variety. Or go for Tym's suggestion and duplicate command stands, but then you would need one-and-a-half armies. A lot of figures would be suitable for both but there are quite a few troop types unique to each period. EG for WOTR you need a lot of longbowmen who wouldn't be at home in Italy.
Title: Re: Italian wars or WOTR
Post by: joroas on May 15, 2016, 09:27:51 AM
What scenery do you have? That would be an important influence.
Title: Re: Italian wars or WOTR
Post by: olicana on May 18, 2016, 10:49:33 AM
WoTR gives a basically medieval battle. The Italian Wars are the first wars following the medieval wars period where one might describe command and control, and to a lesser extent weaponry, as 'modern'.

I sold my WoTR collection, and my ECW collection for that matter, in favour of Italian Wars. I might, one day, revisit ECW / TYW, but I'll not go back to WoTR - I'd rather do Sengoku Jidai for that kind of bastard feudal thing because the troop types are more interesting.
Title: Re: Italian wars or WOTR
Post by: Leapsnbounds on May 18, 2016, 11:59:15 AM
I would go with the Italian Wars.
Title: Re: Italian wars or WOTR
Post by: Captain Blood on May 18, 2016, 12:05:10 PM
Wars of the Roses for me - but then I'm an English history nut :)

I'd happily do the Italian Wars as well. Love the colour and panache of that setting. But I do just have a particular love of the Wars of The Roses...
Title: Re: Italian wars or WOTR
Post by: Corso on May 18, 2016, 02:16:44 PM
History-wise I prefer WotR, more so because of the plastic kits available from Perry, and I always prefer plastic for the flexibility in making unique models.

However in your collection, since you have gw stuff, the italian wars would be a better option...........
Title: Re: Italian wars or WOTR
Post by: Metternich on May 19, 2016, 01:12:17 AM
Italian Wars is one of those transition periods (rise of gunpowder and massed pikes) which I find more interesting.  WoTR (which I do enjoy, i will admit) is essentially medieval, while Italian Wars is Renaissance.
Title: Re: Italian wars or WOTR
Post by: levied troop on May 19, 2016, 11:51:20 AM
It might depend on the type of game you want to play.  Both periods are great to get into, from the colour/spectacle/history aspect.

I love the WotR, but big battles tend to end up as blade vs bow (in DBM terms) and get to be rather boring.  Haven't found a set of big battle rules that gives me any excitement.  On the other hand the Sharp Practice WotR variants that have popped up do seem to work and I've been rebasing all my Lancastrians and Yorkists to single bases for large skirmish (100 figures a side) which look to be more fun.

I quite like the Italian Wars and it seems to me that the greater variety of troops would give a better big battle game. I did start down this route but got seduced into 1544 (I blame TAG and Stuart) - it is however colourful and fun to paint and large units would work well on the table.

So do you want large skirmish or big battle?
Title: Re: Italian wars or WOTR
Post by: blacksoilbill on May 19, 2016, 12:25:39 PM
For colour and variety of troops I'd say Italian Wars. Not that I have any, mind. But I have been tempted a number of times!
Title: Re: Italian wars or WOTR
Post by: Dr. Zombie on May 19, 2016, 12:45:12 PM
I would go for Italian/European wars. As that gives you a wider range both modeling and painting wise.

While I also really like the War of the roses it is essentially two identical forces fighting each other with only the colour of the Rose to seperate one from another. (Put to a very sharp point and oversimplificating it , I know - sorry to all the English history boffs).


I have often though about doing a medieval army and keeping most of the infantry fairly generic and then have various interchangeable banners, so a unit that one day is Genoese spearmen can the next day be Lancaster spearmen or German mercenaries depending on the banner they are given. I think that would fork for most of the rank and file in an army.
Title: Re: Italian wars or WOTR
Post by: Hu Rhu on May 19, 2016, 04:46:49 PM
I have a large WotR force made up mostly of Perry's plastic with a few of their and other manufacturors metals.  I have separate command stands to convert them from one lord to another (and sometimes from one side to another).  However if I was to start again I would plump for the Italian Wars.  There is so much variety in nations, troops, colours and better (or at least prettier) terrain to fight over.
Title: Re: Italian wars or WOTR
Post by: olicana on May 19, 2016, 08:30:39 PM
The Italian Wars just looks so good
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-bW6-ij9bsq4/VJqMGIQFbjI/AAAAAAAAIzk/yUyoEOMHYIc/s1600/IMG_9181.JPG)

Including forces led by mad Cardinals (this one was called Schinner).
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6Ya6a2gIdW8/VJXKGmHPIhI/AAAAAAAAIyM/c1eZa5TDOTo/s1600/IMG_9165.JPG)
Title: Re: Italian wars or WOTR
Post by: Metternich on May 19, 2016, 11:02:31 PM
Olicana, those pictures are just glorious.  And the neat thing about the Italian Wars is the greater variation in troop types.  As previously noted, the WOTR give you basically mirrored armies.
Title: Re: Italian wars or WOTR
Post by: dragonwagon on May 19, 2016, 11:10:59 PM
Thanx chaps!!!  Looks like I'm pretty much gonna do the Italian wars as I only do plastics and Perry figures can be used for very early Italian wars figures.  I figure to cast up some morians and replace some of the more Germanic (British) style helmets for giggles.  Landesknechts are gonna be the only bugger unless I can source more GW cheap (ha ha ha. I know I dream!!)  Thanks again for all of your input!  I figure I can skirmish Wotr as well!!
Title: Re: Italian wars or WOTR
Post by: dragonwagon on May 19, 2016, 11:12:00 PM
As for terrain I have a green mat and some felt roads.
Title: Re: Italian wars or WOTR
Post by: Il Lord on May 21, 2016, 10:41:15 AM
Speacking of which: any news of warlord games former pro gloria plastic landsknecht?
Title: Re: Italian wars or WOTR
Post by: huevans on May 21, 2016, 02:06:49 PM
It might depend on the type of game you want to play.  Both periods are great to get into, from the colour/spectacle/history aspect.

I love the WotR, but big battles tend to end up as blade vs bow (in DBM terms) and get to be rather boring.  Haven't found a set of big battle rules that gives me any excitement.  On the other hand the Sharp Practice WotR variants that have popped up do seem to work and I've been rebasing all my Lancastrians and Yorkists to single bases for large skirmish (100 figures a side) which look to be more fun.

I quite like the Italian Wars and it seems to me that the greater variety of troops would give a better big battle game. I did start down this route but got seduced into 1544 (I blame TAG and Stuart) - it is however colourful and fun to paint and large units would work well on the table.

So do you want large skirmish or big battle?

I have always been intrigued by the Perfect Captain's series of rules for WoTR which look a little more complex and interesting.
Title: Re: Italian wars or WOTR
Post by: Hu Rhu on May 24, 2016, 11:57:26 AM
I second the Perfect Captain's WotR rules they capture the feel very well and no fight is identical not least beacuse they introduce charcaters who are trecherous, tardy or just plain bloodthirsty.  They also have a good, simple campaign game for those who prefer to fight linked battles or those with a bit of background.