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Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: brigadegames on 23 May 2016, 06:39:51 PM

Title: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: brigadegames on 23 May 2016, 06:39:51 PM
We are waiting approval of our 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter.

We anticipate starting this week and have lots of miniatures for this KS. The campaign will run about 3 weeks.

Full Soviet and Mongol Infantry Platoons, Support and Artillery. Plus, Mongol Cavalry and Allied Japanese Cavalry.

I will add the link once approved and some pictures of some of the minis this week.

Here is a brief historical primer -

From July 1938 through the late summer of 1941 the forces of the USSR and Imperial Japan fought a series of battles from small skirmishes to large scale pitched battles over disputed territorial borders in the Far East. This was an undeclared war, one that has been overlooked for many years but which would have far-reaching consequences. The largest of these battles was called Khalkin Gol by the Soviets and Nomonhan by the Japanese and raged from May – August 1939. It is often overlooked that the primary enemy of Imperial Japan and the focus of their war plans at this time was not the USA and UK but the USSR! Skirmishes of small forces escalated as more infantry were fed into the battle that eventually saw armored battles by both sides and bitter fighting. This battle was the debut of Gregory Zhukov who used combined skills of planning, deception and material to overwhelm and defeat the Japanese; this leadership would be repeated against the Germans in the Great Patriotic War. The stunning defeat by their primary enemy prompted a revision in Japanese strategy which now looked south for their expansionist goals – North Wind Cloudy became East Wind Rain. The Soviets were also free to concentrate their efforts in Europe and Poland in September 1939.

These figures area designed to demonstrate the unique Soviet uniforms from 1938 through the initial onslaught of Barbarossa. These figures show the forces of the USSR and their allies as they would have fought the Japanese prior to the outbreak of hostilities in Europe. The summer weather in the Far East could be quite warm and the armies tended to “travel light”. Uniforms of the USSR during this period did not have shoulder boards, a throwback to the 1917 revolution and, most uniquely, wore the Model 1936 helmet with broad brim, flared sides and comb on top.

Some of the great advantages of these figures are their versatility and their unique uses – they are appropriate for the 1938/39 fighting against the Japanese, offering VERY interesting wargaming scenarios, may be used in the 1939 invasion of Poland and against the Germans and their allies in the 1941 Barbarossa campaign.

Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: Phil_Gray on 24 May 2016, 07:53:44 AM
One to watch with interest.
Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: draxx66 on 24 May 2016, 12:24:07 PM
Yip this is one I will have to look at. :D
Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: brigadegames on 25 May 2016, 05:27:48 AM
We will be going live at 1pm on Wednesday, May 25th.

I am pretty sure this is the link (KS isn't really clear about this but I will update it if I am wrong.)

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/brigadegames/1305495158

Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: BossTroll on 25 May 2016, 11:13:37 AM
Interesting. I've been interested in the battle of Khalkin Gol for a while now.

1pm which time zone are you going live?
Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: brigadegames on 25 May 2016, 03:58:36 PM
1pm EST as we are in NJ, USA
Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: brigadegames on 25 May 2016, 05:20:07 PM
We are now live - yes, a little early.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/brigadegames/28mm-1939-41-soviets-for-nomonhan-poland-and-easte

Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: moiterei_1984 on 25 May 2016, 05:44:04 PM
Sorry if I may sound a bit harsh but the figures do look a bit crude to me. I wish you luck though. Some rare units in there.
Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: brigadegames on 25 May 2016, 05:58:53 PM
The figures are perfectly fine.

The painting is not the best to be honest.

The figures are sculpted by Mike Broadbent who did our WW2 Pacific Australians range.
For comparison the link is below. Same sculptor, same quality.
http://brigadegames.3dcartstores.com/WW2--Diggers-in-the-Pacific-Aussies_c_31.html

We have been experimenting with different inking techniques but have not really found the perfect formula yet.

I also have limited samples at this time so I couldn't do multiple tries to easily.

 
Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: brigadegames on 25 May 2016, 07:32:40 PM
Here is a pic of some better painted rifles.



Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: carlos marighela on 25 May 2016, 11:27:04 PM
Those are fairly typical MB sculpts, with all that goes with that.

Unfortunately Mike hasn't really caught the shape of the helmet though and that's about the only thing that marks these out as early/ pre-war Soviets. Pity, as your Japanese are excellent figures, albeit probably a bit lightly dressed for Nomonhan.

I wish you luck with the campaign though.

Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: Truscott Trotter on 26 May 2016, 12:35:53 AM
They look good to me - pity there is no Soviet Russian Cavalry or Cossacks that I would buy
Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: brigadegames on 26 May 2016, 09:36:03 PM
Unfortunately Mike hasn't really caught the shape of the helmet though and that's about the only thing that marks these out as early/ pre-war Soviets.

We would beg to differ.

Understand that there were probably numerous factories with slight variations in designs.

This picture is of a 1938 design with fit sizes and even in this picture there are variations.
Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: brigadegames on 26 May 2016, 09:39:44 PM
They look good to me - pity there is no Soviet Russian Cavalry or Cossacks that I would buy

Hi Truscott

There were none at Nomonhan.

Red Army cavalry were a common unit type during the Revolution and on into the 1920’s especially in the wide open spaces of the East.  Most were converted to mechanized and motorized corps during the 1930s.  Due to severe losses in vehicles by the Red Army following the German invasion of USSR many more cavalry corps were raised. These corps initially included two cavalry divisions. During 1943, another cavalry division was added, and all divisions received a tank regiment.

Despite the name, for the most part the troops of the cavalry corps operated primarily as dismounted infantry, using their horses only to negotiate terrain that would prove difficult to motor vehicles, and conducting rapid raids.

Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: carlos marighela on 26 May 2016, 10:31:15 PM
We would beg to differ.

Understand that there were probably numerous factories with slight variations in designs.

This picture is of a 1938 design with fit sizes and even in this picture there are variations.


Well, that's because you have a picture displaying two quite different helmet patterns. The one on the left appears to be an either an Ssh-39 or Ssh-40 and the one on the right  is the M-36, the type that Mike has attempted to portray.

No doubt there are some subtle differences between manufacturers or lots but I've yet to see a photo of one where the ventilation comb runs across the crown like a fireman's helmet. Have a closer look at photos of the actual article.

I've seen a lot of Mike's work over the years,  I have quite a bit of it in fact and certainly enough to know that strict attention to detail isn't always his strongest point. Lovely chap and does some first rate work in 15mm, which IMO is the scale that suits him best.

Look I don't wish to carp and I really do wish you the very best with the campaign, you produce some excellent products that nobody else does. You are to be applauded for tackling a long overlooked topic. By the same token you may wish to consider feedback intended to be constructive.
Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: Truscott Trotter on 26 May 2016, 11:31:09 PM
Hi Truscott

There were none at Nomonhan.

Red Army cavalry were a common unit type during the Revolution and on into the 1920’s especially in the wide open spaces of the East.  Most were converted to mechanized and motorized corps during the 1930s.  Due to severe losses in vehicles by the Red Army following the German invasion of USSR many more cavalry corps were raised. These corps initially included two cavalry divisions. During 1943, another cavalry division was added, and all divisions received a tank regiment.

Despite the name, for the most part the troops of the cavalry corps operated primarily as dismounted infantry, using their horses only to negotiate terrain that would prove difficult to motor vehicles, and conducting rapid raids.



Thanks Brigade games. Thought the Kickstarter  were for Poland and Eastern Front too my bad. Soviet Cavalry did fight in the East at later battle against the Japanese IIRC - the far east is not an area I know much about compared to the other fronts.
FWIW I have been researching Soviet troops from Russian language sources for 6 years now - and can detail the 3 battles were they did charge on horseback  lol. Most people think cavalry were a left over from prewar but the numbers were increased after 41 to over 200,000 cavalry and they were still performing great service in 1945 - admittedly in mixed Cav/Mech corps.

Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: cuprum on 27 May 2016, 04:06:54 AM
This picture is of a 1938 design with fit sizes and even in this picture there are variations.

In the photo shows the helmet of two different samples - 1936 sample, and 1940 sample (testing began in 1938). Large external differences between the helmets of one sample was not, but the helmets were three different standard sizes (by size of the head), which have a slight difference in the silhouette.

All Russian helmets on the 1st and 2nd World Wars: http://helmets.ru/cat_rus.htm


Soviet cavalry during the 2nd World War was used primarily as a "riding infantry", for moved rapidly troops. In the context of the Russian off-road it was very helpful, the horse easy to pass there, where the car will sink in dirt.
Cavalry attack certainly occurred, but it was extremely rare under suitable conditions - such as the ambush on a short distance. However, I know typical episodes of cavalry battles between the Soviet and Romanian cavalry in 1941.
Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: koz10 on 30 May 2016, 05:50:24 AM
Some new photos from a game run at Enfilade have been added to the Kickstarter page. The painted figures look really great. Bruce is a genius when it comes to designing scenarios.
Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: Slayer on 30 May 2016, 06:39:12 AM
nice looking figures, all the best with your kickstarter
Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: ARKOUDAKI on 30 May 2016, 08:37:39 PM
Quote
I've seen a lot of Mike's work over the years,  I have quite a bit of it in fact and certainly enough to know that strict attention to detail isn't always his strongest point. Lovely chap and does some first rate work in 15mm, which IMO is the scale that suits him best.

Look I don't wish to carp and I really do wish you the very best with the campaign, you produce some excellent products that nobody else does. You are to be applauded for tackling a long overlooked topic. By the same token you may wish to consider feedback intended to be constructive.

Carlos is dead right on this account. BG has done some nice figs over the years - although pricey - but this Kickstarter range isn't one of them...they just lack excitement and the poses are dead boring. The topic is great...but the execution and research isn't quite there. Like Carlos, not trying to rain on your parade but for me these don't do it. Yet, as beauty is in the eye of the beholder - and I have seen a lot worse get accepted by others - your Kickstarter may be a success.
Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: cuprum on 31 May 2016, 03:12:12 AM
(http://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/012/549/802/e261d7d8b7a25e0e881c830f0ef4da40_original.jpg?w=680&fit=max&v=1464386245&auto=format&q=92&s=a6f69ada159aacf2d7dc1bdea6ccdc4a)

Do not understand the strange tendency to portray Russian officers with megaphones... This myth appeared, apparently, after the fantasy in movie "Enemy at the Gates"... I do not seen any historical photos or descriptions of their use in combat conditions.
Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: cuprum on 31 May 2016, 03:29:37 AM
...
Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: carlos marighela on 31 May 2016, 09:33:29 AM
(http://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/012/549/802/e261d7d8b7a25e0e881c830f0ef4da40_original.jpg?w=680&fit=max&v=1464386245&auto=format&q=92&s=a6f69ada159aacf2d7dc1bdea6ccdc4a)

Do not understand the strange tendency to portray Russian officers with megaphones... This myth appeared, apparently, after the fantasy in movie "Enemy at the Gates"... I do not seen any historical photos or descriptions of their use in combat conditions.

It's an allusion to the Soviet penetration of future members of the SIS whilst at Cambridge. It's one of Kim Philby's college chums, intoning 'Stroke! Stroke' to the crew of a racing eight in the Boat Race. Or it could be an even more obscure literary reference to Anthony Blanche declaiming poetry, through a megaphone from Magdalen Bridge.  ;)

Either way it looks daft although I'm more curious as to why it would be a good idea to wave the national flag around on the rolling plains of Nomonhan.
Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: cuprum on 31 May 2016, 09:44:34 AM
Banner still could be used as a benchmark, to designate the captured positions or, for example, buildings. But by megaphone in the battle clearly a little sense ...
Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: BAMeyer on 31 May 2016, 07:39:45 PM
It's a Commissar with the megaphone, either exhorting the troops forward or threatening them if they stall.  Makes perfect sense if you want to be heard over the din of battle.

There are numerous references to both Japanese and Soviet flags and banners on the Battlefield at Nomonhan.

 
Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: koz10 on 31 May 2016, 07:51:10 PM
The commissar figure was painted based on a picture from an Osprey or some other reference book. That's how I based the painting colors of this figure. It's not supposed to be an officer. The figures do look awesome on the gaming table. Even if you're not planning on supporting the project, you should check them out. The games played were a lot of fun.
Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: cuprum on 01 June 2016, 03:26:51 AM
It's a Commissar with the megaphone, either exhorting the troops forward or threatening them if they stall.  Makes perfect sense if you want to be heard over the din of battle.

This is just pure fantasy ... Commissars abolished in the Red Army in 1942 because their function was simply unnecessary in conditions of the Second World War.
Commissars were are relevant in the Civil War. Their main function - is supervision of the commanders of in the army directly. Many red commanders of that period were former Tsarist officers or even turncoat from the enemy (eg nationalists). Much has also been a "red" warlords (irregular volunteer formations), joined the Red Army, together with his troops - in these military units often had big problems with discipline and execution of orders of the Soviet command. Commissars had been the political representatives of the Bolsheviks and monitored exact execution of the orders and the the moral state of of the military unit (insurgencies were not uncommon then).
Agitation and "threat" - a by-product of their activity.

A megaphone in the field is not necessary. Fleeing soldiers its can not be stopped. Otherwise, its would have used in all the armies of the world.
Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: Hammers on 21 December 2016, 05:57:41 AM
This is just pure fantasy ... Commissars abolished in the Red Army in 1942 because their function was simply unnecessary in conditions of the Second World War.
Commissars were are relevant in the Civil War. Their main function - is supervision of the commanders of in the army directly. Many red commanders of that period were former Tsarist officers or even turncoat from the enemy (eg nationalists). Much has also been a "red" warlords (irregular volunteer formations), joined the Red Army, together with his troops - in these military units often had big problems with discipline and execution of orders of the Soviet command. Commissars had been the political representatives of the Bolsheviks and monitored exact execution of the orders and the the moral state of of the military unit (insurgencies were not uncommon then).
Agitation and "threat" - a by-product of their activity.

A megaphone in the field is not necessary. Fleeing soldiers its can not be stopped. Otherwise, its would have used in all the armies of the world.

This is very interesting, cuprum.
Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: cuprum on 21 December 2016, 10:58:50 AM
Commissars reborn into Soviet Army in the "deputy commander for political affairs" (zampolit). They could no longer influence the decisions of the unit commander or a military unit - in the army has returned the absolute unity of command. Now the function of "political officer" - education of patriotism among the soldiers of military unit (for example: discussion on the situation at the front and in the world, the message of the military men decisions of the Government and a clarification, counter-propaganda). At the same time the political officer had a normal military training and could act as a regular officer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_commissar

Also, there were officers of the "Special Department" (osobist). They were part of the secret service and is working to identify spies and soldiers are not loyal to the Soviet leadership.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_counterintelligence_of_the_Soviet_Army
Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: N.C.S.E on 21 December 2016, 11:32:50 AM


There are numerous references to both Japanese and Soviet flags and banners on the Battlefield at Nomonhan.

 

On the other hand, your Red Banner during WW2 seems relatively rare (apart from certain special occasions - they were brought in especially for the assault on Berlin). At least in what I've read from the sources.
Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: cuprum on 21 December 2016, 01:01:34 PM
Exactly, it is fantasy filmmakers .. A man with a flag - the best target and minus one rifle in the unit;
Sturm the Reichstag - the exception. There was a competition between military units, who first set the flag on the dome (and end the war).
Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: redzed on 21 December 2016, 01:45:08 PM
On the other hand, your Red Banner during WW2 seems relatively rare (apart from certain special occasions - they were brought in especially for the assault on Berlin). At least in what I've read from the sources.
the banner from the famous Berlin picture was actually 3 tablecloths sewn together the night before by a couple of regular soldiers :)
Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: Hammers on 21 December 2016, 01:54:08 PM
the banner from the famous Berlin picture was actually 3 tablecloths sewn together the night before by a couple of regular soldiers :)

Even better. Lovely vignette should anyone find a 28mm scale sewing machine and could be bothered putting a diorama together.
Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: cuprum on 21 December 2016, 02:50:22 PM
It is unlikely that they had a sewing machine. I think sewed his hands)))
Title: Re: (Commercial) 1939-41 Soviets Kickstarter by BrigadeGames and Company B
Post by: Hammers on 21 December 2016, 03:13:08 PM
It is unlikely that they had a sewing machine. I think sewed his hands)))

No detail escapes YOU, cuprum. :)