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Other Stuff => General Wargames and Hobby Discussion => Topic started by: vodkafan on 01 July 2016, 08:09:24 AM
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So, I bought some Perry Sudan Brits second hand from a nice chap on here. Before they even arrived, in a fit of excess enthusiasm I had sent off to Perry's for a load more, everything from Sikhs to Naval Brigade, Camel Corps and Bengal Lancers. Yesterday I was examining the whole haul and I came to the realisation that although they are well proportioned, detailed miniature people, for me they are kind of....bland. They seem to be lacking in individual character.
Does anybody else think this or am I weird?
(I have been known to be a bit aberrant with my minis, I painted my romans blue coz i thought it looked good)
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I can't judge those minis myself, as I have never seen them in the plastic myself, but I believe that I know where your issue stems from.
When comparing those minis with, for instance, Frostgrave plastics or maybe even Fireforge or GW, you're comparing two different schools of miniature gaming.
The aforementioned brands mostly create their minis for skirmish games, with a clear focus on individuality. This even goes for miniatures aimed at small unit games such as Saga. Also, they're either fully or obliquely aimed at the fantasy market, which allows for exaggeration and/or addition of details not possible in historical miniatures.
And that's where the Perry plastics come in; they're aimed at the historical wargames market, where the correctness of uniforms is often paramount and most games tend to require untold masses of troops.
So, this 'old school' approach means that miniatures need to be 'correct' and easily painted without too many fiddly details, simply as there need to be so many.
Your Perry plastics are aimed at the historical crowd, so they're 'bland' on purpose. Once painted, they'll look really good en-masse, but if you're looking for very individual minis for smaller scale games, you may be better off looking at stuff like Copplestone's Back of Beyond range, Pulp minis or maybe Artizan's ranges...
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Mine are all metal, I haven't got any of the Perry plastics...I agree that Copplestone do have the character that Perry's seem to be missing..I also like Redoubt and the small Essex Sudan range, both of those are straight historical
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Personally, I have found that if the miniatures are designed for large blocks and the reality is you would not see most of them easily they tend to do just what they need to.
The more characterful sculpts appear to be for the front rank or generals etc which are typically used on their own in games. I have some of the peasants from their crusader range and they are really quite characterful including one that looks very much like a cut throat!
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Here I came into the topic expecting you to talk about the casting. :P
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Here I came into the topic expecting you to talk about the casting. :P
Ditto
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Here I came into the topic expecting you to talk about the casting. :P
A few of them had a fair bit of flash but I have a high tolerance for that as long as the figures have that certain something
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So, I bought some Perry Sudan Brits second hand from a nice chap on here. Before they even arrived, in a fit of excess enthusiasm I had sent off to Perry's for a load more, everything from Sikhs to Naval Brigade, Camel Corps and Bengal Lancers. Yesterday I was examining the whole haul and I came to the realisation that although they are well proportioned, detailed miniature people, for me they are kind of....bland. They seem to be lacking in individual character.
Does anybody else think this or am I weird?
(I have been known to be a bit aberrant with my minis, I painted my romans blue coz i thought it looked good)
I prefer a bit of blandness, because they represent hundreds of generic soldiers. What bugs me is that they insist on drummers for their ACW command sprues/sets.
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What bugs me is that they insist on drummers for their ACW command sprues/sets.
Do they not still have the removable drum arrangement? They used to do that on the first ACW sets, where if you didn't attach the drum they could just be a standard infantryman.
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Do they not still have the removable drum arrangement? They used to do that on the first ACW sets, where if you didn't attach the drum they could just be a standard infantryman.
Yeah, but I would like buglers. The non-Perry buglers I have are far more animated than the Perry infantrymen, and thus stand out more than appropriate.
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Actually if you compare the faces of the Perry figures to their older Foundry sculpts the level of 'character' has diminished. I know several well known Perry exponents have mentioned to the twins that they would favour more 'character' - but I've no idea what the response was.
On the other hand if anyone has a spare dog or two from the Sudan set....
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You are all a picky bunch of mush heads....no wait so am I... damn it!
The Perrys minis dont do it for me but cheap plastic is er cheap!...Warlord are a lot better though.
I hate figures that can only be used for one purpose...thats what metal is for.
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You've managed to hit the nail on the head as to why i actually like the Perry models so much.
I'm so burnt out on overly detailed stuff like GW's recent monstrosities that sitting down and painting a pile of Perry's is such a sweet relief.
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You are all a picky bunch of mush heads....no wait so am I... damn it!
The Perrys minis dont do it for me but cheap plastic is er cheap!...Warlord are a lot better though.
I hate figures that can only be used for one purpose...thats what metal is for.
Really?? I only have Warlord WW2 plastics admittedly, and not even for their intended purpose (kitbashing post apocalyptic figures), but from what I've seen, most of Warlord's plastics seem to suffer from "squatting to poop" pose syndrome. Apparently it's hard for them to stand up straight. :D Guess it's a style thing then, I really like the Perry plastics.
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Really?? I only have Warlord WW2 plastics admittedly, and not even for their intended purpose (kitbashing post apocalyptic figures), but from what I've seen, most of Warlord's plastics seem to suffer from "squatting to poop" pose syndrome. Apparently it's hard for them to stand up straight. :D Guess it's a style thing then, I really like the Perry plastics.
TBH that is the stance most actors take in WW2 action scenes. I wouldn't know if its appropriate combat drill for the time though.
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TBH that is the stance most actors take in WW2 action scenes. I wouldn't know if its appropriate combat drill for the time though.
(http://www.10086sunsetblvd.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Saving-Private-Ryan.jpg)
I guess I can't argue with that. :D
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Oh man that picture is perfect for this argument. lol lol lol
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I have some Perry Normans and I was... underwhelmed. Next to Foundry and Conquest the Perry horses looked sickly.
Perry on the right, Conquest on the left
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i149/eaodak/AcryllicvOil01_zpsa7ecd5e8.jpg) (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/eaodak/media/AcryllicvOil01_zpsa7ecd5e8.jpg.html)
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I have some Perry Normans and I was... underwhelmed. Next to Foundry and Conquest the Perry horses looked sickly.
Perry on the right, Conquest on the left
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i149/eaodak/AcryllicvOil01_zpsa7ecd5e8.jpg) (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/eaodak/media/AcryllicvOil01_zpsa7ecd5e8.jpg.html)
I can understand being a bit partizan over horses. Like every type of figure people have favourites. I don't find the Perry horses too bad but there are others I like better such as Redoubt.
Going back to the Perry figures I have been sourcing around and have been able to replace the Naval Brigade and Camel Corps units completely with a mix of Britannia, Redoubt and Essex miniatures. In the case of the Camel Corps (which was an ad hoc formation anyway) the resulting crew have a wonderfully motley appearance...so I will be selling on my Perry miniatures of those units soon.
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I wonder if the lack of character has anything to do with the fact that now the Perry brothers don't work for GW anymore, they have worked out that they need to release x boxes of miniatures a year, so they are pushing through the releases a bit faster.
I base this theory on comparing the early WOTR releases with some of their later sets, such as their Desert Rats, although the miniatures in this set are very nicely sculpted, well proportioned etc. as we would expect from the Perry bros, the WOTR sets have separate heads with a lot more character, one can just take a look at one of Captain Blood's WOTR threads to see this.
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The Agincourt french came out this year and I found it to be a lovely kit with bags of options. Don't think I've seen a GoT-modeller who didn't love it. Maybe it's just that the Perrys have a certain taste in their colonial/modern stuff should look?
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The Agincourt french came out this year and I found it to be a lovely kit with bags of options. Don't think I've seen a GoT-modeller who didn't love it. Maybe it's just that the Perrys have a certain taste in their colonial/modern stuff should look?
I agree the plastics are beautiful kits. The lead however....
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I dont mind them, understand what you are saying though. For me they are good stock figures as a good price too so happy with that, the casting is a bit dodgy at times so agree on that point also
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The horse up above is odd, since..again the plastic horses are quite good from the Cavalry box I had. Weird. I don't own enough Perry stuff to really comment - though the plastic buildings I've had from them are crap. lol
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The horse up above is odd, since..again the plastic horses are quite good from the Cavalry box I had. Weird. I don't own enough Perry stuff to really comment - though the plastic buildings I've had from them are crap. lol
The Conquest one on the left is plastic, but the right (Perry) is lead. I was really excited to buy them at Crisis a couple of years ago but once I got them out of the blister I wished I bought more Foundry....
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In regards to Perry horses...
This week I painted my first ever Perry horses! And the first horses I have painted in about 10 years. They were a joy to paint, and I am really impressed with the sculpts. They are metal ones from their WOTR range. The horse posted above does look vastly inferior. Is it from their Crusades range? I don't know if that came out before their WOTR one or not. I also have loads of their plastic WOTR horses - though I haven't painted them yet, I really like them. Really nice proportions, very realistic.
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In regards to Perry horses...
This week I painted my first ever Perry horses! And the first horses I have painted in about 10 years. They were a joy to paint, and I am really impressed with the sculpts. They are metal ones from their WOTR range. The horse posted above does look vastly inferior. Is it from their Crusades range? I don't know if that came out before their WOTR one or not. I also have loads of their plastic WOTR horses - though I haven't painted them yet, I really like them. Really nice proportions, very realistic.
It's one of their Normans.
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Here's the metal WOTR horse. Sorry for bad pic!
(http://i.imgur.com/QkolKsr.jpg)
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Here's the metal WOTR horse. Sorry for bad pic!
(http://i.imgur.com/QkolKsr.jpg)
Much nicer than mine, no doubt.
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I definitely understand the criticism and for most skirmish or small force engagements the lack of character is very apparent but some sets, particularly the WoTR Foot Knights,are real gems. Then again I was distinctly less impressed with the Men at Arms from the same line. I think it does vary but for me they're more appealing than the Warlord models because, for some reason, they faces always look a little odd, don't know if that's just the paintjobs on the site or what but they've just never looked quite right. I guess at the end of the day it very much is horses for courses, I do believe that metal models, brought in smaller quantities typically than your mass ranks of forty odd plastic minis should be correspondingly a little more dynamic or interesting at least.
Thanks
Blofeld
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Always found the Perry figures to be very decent indeed, love the AWI and Napoleonic metal figures, tend to agree with the fantasy/historical argument.
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I'm finding the same thing, i'm currently on the look out for a force for sharp practice and if i'm being honest while Perry's stuff is technically brilliant it is definitely not made for small scale games, some miniatures/ranges seem to be alright but there is a lack of variety and non-bearded heads for the most part have that same bland face that looks like it;s unfinished.
Their foundry stuff is good and if it wasn't for the price and the fact that being smaller means they don't mix well with other ranges i'd be all over them, i've got to say seeing the imaginations army Rich painted up on his blog has me powerfully tempted...
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I really like so of the later sculpts from Gripping Beast like their Jomsvikings, and for a skirmish warband I use Foundry's later sculpts to fill them out.
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i149/eaodak/SAGA%20VikingJomsviking%20Standard%20Beaer%2001_zpsvrgmw9kk.jpg) (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/eaodak/media/SAGA%20VikingJomsviking%20Standard%20Beaer%2001_zpsvrgmw9kk.jpg.html)
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I have a few hundred Perry Sudan and I've thought the opposite – they have enough character when painted. The sculpting style is quite refined and not exaggerated this may be while they don't appear to be really characterful. However, I'd urge you to start painting them and see how you feel then. I'd recommend the charging Black Watch if you want character.
Their previously ropey casting quality has improved massively, if the small number of packs I've bought at representative.
My critique of the range is that there are still gaps that need to be addressed. I was disappointed to see the new colonial Afghan range started with some gorgeous figures when the Sudan range still remains incomplete.
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I am really grateful for the plastic revolution and for the Perry twins who played a strong part in bringing plastics to the historical side of the game. But (always a but it seems) I just think the Perry plastics are difficult to paint. This of course is my fault with aging eyes and possibly unsteady hand but they feel like I am painting 1/72!
Gripping Beast seem easier as do Fireforge which is a shame because the Perries are the best range around, I just wish they were larger.
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I am really grateful for the plastic revolution and for the Perry twins who played a strong part in bringing plastics to the historical side of the game. But (always a but it seems) I just think the Perry plastics are difficult to paint. This of course is my fault with aging eyes and possibly unsteady hand but they feel like I am painting 1/72!
Gripping Beast seem easier as do Fireforge which is a shame because the Perries are the best range around, I just wish they were larger.
The smallness of plastics does seem to affect me too with my bad eyes. Which is strange as there are metal minis that are the same height and proportions yet they still seem seem easier to paint to me.