Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => VSF Adventures => Topic started by: Njall on 25 July 2016, 10:37:43 AM
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Hello
Well.. I guess everything is in the title. I'm looking for a game which would let me play some naval battles and I thought of Dystopian wars. I know nothing about the rules and I thought the nice people here could give some opinions.
Or alternatively if you know of another ruleset you would advise....
Thanks by advance.
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It is an amusing game with superb models. The fun lies mainly in finding the optimal combos in the hope that they will defeat your opponent's optimal combos.
That aside, the game has little to do with naval combat. On the contrary: The DW land combat rules are identical. Ships do not operate as fleets but as small units or individual ships. Planes are either very slow or small but practically harmless. It feels more like a skirmish game than a fleet game.
This caused us to lose interest within a year.
For naval games I greatly recommend the old General Quarters 2 rule set. We have been using it to years and it never fails. Simple, but timeless.
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Fun but I would go elsewhere for a game that feels like naval combat.
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On another forum, someone called it 'Dystopian wars is a fast game with easy to pick up rules.'
I replied I found it counter-intuitive, and difficult to pick up. Not necessarily complicated, just wouldn't sink in.
Obviously different opinions entirely.
By the way, it was in a discussion of Dystopian Wars Fleet Action, an apparently new larger scale version. I would like to see that, but not finding a distributor through the store.
Doug
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I know there is armoured clash which is supposed to be an easier quicker rules version to allow for more models on the table. IIRC. Those rules are online for free, not a bad idea to check out first I guess.
I agree though I only played 1e wars and it never really clicked. I was always trying to get the rules right rather then play the actual game.
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Garbage, don't go near it.
Spartan has this problem wherein they make great models and awful rules. They also lack focus, have clearly spread themselves too thin and are willing to throw systems under the bus rather then promote them.
I mean when a ruleset goes from Mk1 to 2 you'd think they'd learn to at least do a correct layout. Adding into the problem is their scale is somewhat wonky so you can't even use them for other systems.
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It is an amusing game with superb models. The fun lies mainly in finding the optimal combos in the hope that they will defeat your opponent's optimal combos.
In other words, another 'Magic the Gathering' meta-game nightmare with miniatures?
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In other words, another 'Magic the Gathering' meta-game nightmare with miniatures?
No that game is called warmachine/hordes. :)
Like others I have found the figs to be wonderful but the rules not so much. You may love or hate the rules but can't fault the figs.
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Well, I feel like I may be taking a risk with my life here, ::) but I like the game and I like the figures.
As a naval simulation, I fear I do not have enough experience to compare it to other naval games. We played several naval encounters and had fun.
Did I think I was playing a WWI or WWII naval game, no.
Did we straddle the target with plunging fire from a mile away, no.
Did it feel like we were going toe to toe, like 19th century ships, maybe, never played a simulation game of that time period either, but yes we did go toe to toe, and we had air support, and icebergs!
Did we have fun, hell yes! We played with a variety of ships that had all sorts of 'cool/ weapon systems, and it did not feel like GW's Man o war!
But. please, let me speak about the game in general.
Yeah they do not match up to some VSF visions, but there are so many different visions out there. (see various rivet debates, Steampunk vs non-steampunk etc) I can admire other VSF visions and not slam them. For instance I am not a fan of Steampunk preferring a more civilized feel like Space 1889, but some of the figures out there for steampunk are gorgeous! To each there own. As a self contained entity DW is consistent in model design. The figure that sold me on DW, was the Prussian Sky Fortress (airship with the landing deck). Yes it unrealistic, silly, impossible, etc. It is this crazy look that got me hooked on the miniatures (I also have a weakness for airships) However last time I looked we are talking VSF, so where do people want to draw the realism line?
The figures are a joy to paint, and even an impatient hack of a painter like me cannot mess them up (too bad)
You can find a small sample of what I have painted here:
https://menelduir.blogspot.ca/2016/10/so-sampling-of-my-large-largely.html#more
As for the rules I had no major issue with them. The unit cards, or downloaded stat sheets help keep things organized. The forces of any given nation tend to field consistent weapon systems, so each commander should find it fairly easy to be comfortable with what they field. I assume that creating nation specific cheat sheets that define Model Assigned Rules MAR's, would help help too.
The rules are not perfect, but unlike some rules they do have an index. The mix of font/size does bother my old eyes, and diminishes my ability to perceive what is deemed as important, and what is just a heading. The 2.0 soft cover edition is the best version to date, better organized, and streamlined.
A legitimate complaint might be all the MAR's, that can be challenging for a novice player. They define the abilities of different weapon systems, and can, to some, feel like a GW game mechanic where new rules are introduce with each new army list. It is not, but the sheer number of different systems might cause some confusion for some players.
I have not played every nation, but the ones that I have used were balanced enough. One does have a variety of choices when building a battle force, so you can build a force to match your tactical style, or the needs of the battle.
The Armour Clash rules were intended to stream line it even more to allow larger forces. I never got around to testing the rules, and instead continued to play the original game.
The new fleet action rules appear to make the game easier to learn, makes it move faster and allows players to field larger forces if they so desire. While I have downloaded the army guides, and I have the rules, I have not yet play-tested the new rules. However I have read them and unit information and they look like they will do the trick.
Actual play testing by me will take place when I can fit it into my gaming schedule, at this rate December or January.
Bottom line, my group had fun playing the games. For example, we laughed when critical explosions rippled down a line of tanks each setting the next tank off,or in two separate games the big bad Prussian bunker received a critical hit and imploded (a fluke that has never been seen again). Something cool about seeing the Russian Kursk land ship lumbering across the battlefield destroying all in sight. We are not overly competitive, so maybe this game in the hands of people that must win at any cost would not be as much fun, but we play for fun, winning is not everything to us!
Due to other campaigns I have not played DW for almost a year, but I am confident that if someone asked me to play a game this weekend I could easily set up and play a game.
My two cents
Thank you.
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Two cents? More like a sawbuck! lol
However, I can disagree and admire the depth of your response.
Thanks!
And, I'll accept 'not LPL-ranking', but 'an impatient hack' is RIGHT out!
Doug
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My take on Dystopian Wars is much the same as Firestorm Armada. Skip the game itself, buy the beautiful figs for use elsewhere. For FA I prefer Starmada or Full Thrust. DW offers more of a challenge, but you could adapt either of those rules sets or maybe tweak the recently released Imperial Skies aeronef combat rules to support the DW minis range (or at least parts of it).
Spartan's got the same problem Reaper does in my book. They make some terrific minis, but their success at rules writing in pretty close to zero.
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My take on Dystopian Wars is much the same as Firestorm Armada. Skip the game itself, buy the beautiful figs for use elsewhere. For FA I prefer Starmada or Full Thrust. DW offers more of a challenge, but you could adapt either of those rules sets or maybe tweak the recently released Imperial Skies aeronef combat rules to support the DW minis range (or at least parts of it).
Spartan's got the same problem Reaper does in my book. They make some terrific minis, but their success at rules writing in pretty close to zero.
Maybe that is why rules with associated miniatures don't often attract my money (and vice-versa). I have rules I like to use and I buy miniatures to run games under those rules.
I find that rules specifically aimed towards particular miniatures which turn out particularly interesting to play get proxies immediately.
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Two cents? More like a sawbuck! Laugh
However, I can disagree and admire the depth of your response.
Well said, thank you.
And, I'll accept 'not LPL-ranking', but 'an impatient hack' is RIGHT out!
Thank, you again
I do plan to post some new pictures not DW, but the 28mm VSF that I have.
You may want to change your comment... :D
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Perhaps, but if so, it'll be something like, 'well, it's obvious the Spartan models bring out the best in you.'
An admission like that could, you know, hurt...
lol
Doug
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In an amusing twist of fate (and to link in to my previous post) Spartan have decided to go to kickstarter, hurrah ! What for you ask ? Why ANOTHER DIFFERENT GAME, oh but don't worry its still Dystopian Wars its just now in a different scale (15mm) with numerous buzzwords attatched.
Bloody incompetents the lot of them.
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They have cancelled the kickstarter after a very negative reaction on facebook, players saying the same as yourself, that they should support their current systems instead of launching another. So they (Spartan) have a survey now, asking customers what they want. Crazy but true, the customer might always be right!
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If they get their act together, tighten up their rulesets and start supporting (or just outright squatting) some of their extraneous games they MAY get my money back.
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We Play it as an occasional fun game and it has served us well for that. To me it also gives a nice enough naval feel. So I guess it really depends on what you are looking for.
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If they get their act together, tighten up their rulesets and start supporting (or just outright squatting) some of their extraneous games they MAY get my money back.
I'll have to admit that they still get the odd dollar from me, but I haven't cared about their rules at all since Uncharted Seas, so their biggest failings haven't bugged me much. Those minis just keep getting better and better, especially the firestorm ships. Some of their fleets even have a decent variety of ship classes now (albeit still pretty anemic compared to GZG's Full Thrust ranges or Brigade's stuff).
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What rules do you use ? Or is it just more for painting ?
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I've played Firestorm (which is very similar in basic mechanics) and I must say I like the rules a lot. Simple stuff-with gunnery dice pools at various facings of the ship which diminish as the ships take damage and basic thresholds of hits required to cause either a point of damage or a crit (two points of damage and an additional effect). The exploding dice mechanic is also rather fun-any 6's rolled count as two hits and let you roll again-which can result in some spectacular 'fluke hits' if your dice are hot :)
Probably not the most realistic fleet action game in the world, but the models are great and it's a lot of fun (which for me is more important than realism).
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What rules do you use ? Or is it just more for painting ?
If you were asking me, Full Thrust or Starmada are my primary go-to rule sets for spaceship gaming. Admittedly, my FT gaming generally includes a lot of house rule tweaking - and I've tended to crib the scenarios & random terrain generator from Battlefleet Gothic (best parts of that game IMO). And at this point I'm pretty badly lapsed. Really ought to fix that.
For Dystopian Wars minis, I'd probably either tweak FT again or maybe try the new-ish Imperial Skies game associated with Brigade's Aeronef figs. Have yet to try that, although I've painted a fair number of DW figs for resale/commission.