Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Future Wars => Topic started by: Ginsu on August 10, 2016, 06:49:00 PM
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Project Luna Current Status: 19-08-16
- 1 Habitation Sphere (Source: Brigade Models)
Status: Arrived - Awaiting: construction / painting (Review completed: page 3) http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=92785.30 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=92785.30)
- Chinese Lunar Troops Rifles Pack A & B (Source: GZG)
- Wheeled drone with autocannon (Source: GZG)
Status: Arrived - Awaiting: review / construction / painting
Hello everyone!
Welcome to my Luna Project thread!
This thread will contain my thoughts, reviews of products used, pictures of WIP and completed things all related to my Luna project inspired by and using miniatures from GZG's fantastic MoonGrunt range!
I'm using my own fictional take on the MoonGrunt setting, in my universe the US Army update Project Horizon for the 21st century and gain approval to defend the Luna Colony, as well as any other colony established within Sol. While the US Air Force focus on development of Satellite and Shuttle craft with NASA, which keeps both branches heavily involved in Space Colonization efforts.
The USMC will eventually try to get their foot through the door once larger scale offensive operations are required, but I'm no where near that part yet (because I am not keen on building and painting all that stuff anytime soon LOL)
Mission scenarios are typical of the situation and circumstances;
- Trying to capture/secure Luna equipment/personnel that have landed by accident/deliberate action in to US Luna Territory
- Small scale skirmishes between US and Chinese forces across the Luna surface, most of it between drones and unmanned weapons.
- Rapid offensive missions to capture outposts/radar installations/supply bases
I have also been inspired by this old game:
(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic233432_md.jpg)
I intend to use a very small scale to replicate a version of space/orbital conflict as both sides try to secure orbit above battles, which will affect the 15mm game as supplies and reinforcements will be denied should orbital control be lost etc. However this is a secondary project only.
Project Luna: The Rules
For now regarding rules development, to help me get through it all, I use a copy of StarCraft RISK: and play mock games with the pieces using H.G wells little wars rulebook, updating/changing rules to match the futuristic forces.
I've figured already that while infantry can be suppressed, drones and vehicles can't. That the under-barrel grenade launches the MoonGrunt troops have should be very effective and ignore cover, with scary things like airburst ammunition, claymores etc. I need to figure out what to use for those combat MULES (the four legged robot dog things that run around carrying supplies).
What really fascinates me about it all, is given the difficult circumstances in operating in a vacuum, the moon has no cover and the air burst rounds make cover futile. I had a bit of a hard time trying to write rules to prevent an all out grenade spam between squads but I realized a way around it in that when you select a soldier to launch a grenade he is exposed and vulnerable to enemy fire, so the opponent has a chance to kill him.
Still seems a bit fishy to me though...
Another game I have ripped off/been 'inspired' enough to copy is the old ALIENS boardgame. You might wonder why, well that game has a chart in it when you are hit by acid or in hand to hand combat, the die roll results are grim for the most part, and I figure nothing can be more grim than being in a vaccum and getting shot at!
So the way the rules work so far is that when you select a target you roll to see if you hit the target or not, and the number you roll will equal the result on the weapons chart. I don't take cover saves in to account as I find that too fiddly, I focus on the abilities of the infantryman to aim at and kill his enemy. Cover is used differently, in cover infantry can return fire when attacked, out of cover infantry do not and instead can only fire during the shooting phase for that player (gotta know when to move out of cover to make that assault!)
Here is a preview of my current combat die roll chart:
ATTACK RESULT CHART (INFANTRY PRIMARY WEAPONS)
1 = WEAPON JAM (I need to write something about how moon dust can clog up the barrel.. does that sound legit?)
2 = MISS
3 = SUPPRESSED (This means the target is taking cover and can't return fire or move)
4 = WOUNDED/SUIT BREACH (The target either took a hit or had his suit breached and can't move or fire, the opponent has to roll a die; odd number equals death while even number means the soldier survived the injury/manages to patch the breach in his suit)
5 = IMMOBILIZED (Ripped straight off the ALIENS game, this target has been seriously hurt can't do anything. Now in Aliens you could carry marines out to use later.. in my game I have no idea what the point would be in attempting to CASEVAC wounded soldiers, I just know I want it to happen, so WIP for this one)
6 = KILLED (That's right, it is a 1 in 6 chance to actually kill someone in my game. I've found most troops die from being wounded than killed, which I find fitting enough given the environment)
I'm also working on rules to play alone, if you are like me and don't have anyone to play with... rules for the drones.. vehicle rules I have no touched yet but I already suspect that the under-barrel grenade launcher should be able to knock out the moon buggies and rovers anyway.
Luna Terrain
As of writing this, my Luna terrain will consist of:
- 1 white coffee table
- 1 RISK board, with the black backside being used as a background (may or may not contain a small 'earth' stuck to show pathetic the setup is)
I will of course make an effort to create a good Luna landscape, but for now it's not a priority.
My thoughts on Luna War and where I want to take this project
When I think of this war, I think of World War 1 and the difficulty of overcoming the machinegun. Of course, on the Luna surface you have infantry with automatic weapons, grenades, drones.. those airburst rounds and no cover, no tanks, it's interesting thinking about how to overcome situations that may develop, should be an exciting game.
Plans for the future, I dream of Mars. I dream of going beyond the MoonGrunt line as the factions develop better weapons, I imagine armies in cold sleep sent far beyond to colonize worlds and fight horrific Aliens. That's kind of interesting to me.. a Chinese or US expedition that arrives 6-700 years later. Does either country still exist? Perhaps I could have a united earth faction run in to Chinese and US factions that maintain loyalty to their origins.. who knows.
The MAIN point to all of that though is it keeps my miniatures relevant for future games, so I don't stuff them in a closet and buy more ^%@$^@$# to clutter my shelf. LOL
Anyway that is all for now, next update will be a review of whatever arrives first in the mail, with painted up pictures to follow, more thoughts about rules and I may even go off on rants about who knows what.
Thank you for reading!
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I'll follow your project with interest. And I finally get to use these here!
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0217/0182/products/shuttle_swat_1024x1024.jpg?v=1363399510)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/bblake00/motivator1ec4bce87f2e399818357e7ed5.jpg)
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Awesome, always wanted to do this ever since I got an old copy of Yaquinto's "Marine 2002" boardgame. I look forward to progress updates!
(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic7014_md.jpg)
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2757/marine-2002
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We've all gone Moongrunt mental! Great ideas here, I like your cover mechanic - I'm partial to unusual cover mechanics!
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Looks like that one isn't hard to come by in PDF:
http://www.warehouse23.com/products/SJG30-2366 (http://www.warehouse23.com/products/SJG30-2366)
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Here's a more recently published game that's very similar:
(http://www.wargamevault.com/images/4613/130998.jpg)
http://www.wargamevault.com/product/130998/ASAT-Orbital-Combat
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Just from the pictures that looks like pure gold to me. I will probably grab the PDF tonight and report back what it does and doesn't do or have rules for.
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What mods do you use with KSP?
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Seeing how orbital warfare works in real time is an eye opener.
Oh I opened the preview pdf of ASAT and pointed out to my girlfriend "look, battlecars combined with Kerbal" Downside is that my regular opponent for wargames has a degree in rocket science. Also looks like EM4/silent death ships should work well with this, plus some printed satellites.
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Would be interested to see some rules
We already have a table built a few years ago but never used
A link to the thread
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=56943.msg706699#msg706699 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=56943.msg706699#msg706699)
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Hello ya'll!
Thank you to everyone who has replied with interest in my project, and for those of you discussing such cool old games. I wasn't aware of Marine 2002, although the game has a full arsenal of vehicles and infantry types that seem beyond the tech-level I'm aiming for, Marine 2002 will be a good reference point once I start to expand the forces.
So thanks for that SBMiniaturesGuy!
Would be interested to see some rules
We already have a table built a few years ago but never used
A link to the thread
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=56943.msg706699#msg706699 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=56943.msg706699#msg706699)
I was going to wait for my order to arrive to create my first battle report, featuring a training exercise between Chinese forces and drones, which would feature some basic rules and how combat works. Unless you don't mind me using RISK pieces as proxy.
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One of my conundrums is the scale thing -- I'm mostly 28mm and some 6mm scifi (the old Renegade Legion game -- I have tons of it!), but I really like the 15mm Moongrunt stuff...but scale creep! Dang, I don't like having so many scales in my collection I guess.
C-in-C has a pretty decent 6mm collection that could work:
http://www.pfc-cinc.com/solar_empire_marines.html
http://www.pfc-cinc.com/page/page/312935.htm
How does the GZG stuff look -- any other 6mm product lines that could work?
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Cant comment on how they look in person as I haven't received them yet. (only ordered a couple days ago).
I'll review everything I collect prior to painting right here in this thread.
Regarding scale, 6mm is great for depicting large scale engagements with a variety of vehicles and weapons platforms. Unfortunately I cannot recommend anything to you as I am not familiar with what's available.
15mm scale is great for depicting platoon sized engagements. In my fiction, the capabilities to deploy and support troops on the Luna surface is limited to 20-30 personnel max until further in the timeline.
If moongrunt was 28mm, I wouldn't be here.
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Marine 2002 is a pretty good resource, the authors put a lot of thought into the realism aspect of the game, and basically they agree with you. The game has a TOE for both USMC and Soviet lunar troop, both basically x20 man platoons of 4 x4-man squads, with a x2-man support weapons team and a x2-man command team.
E.g. - USMC Company
x4 Infantry Platoons
x1 Assault Platoon (x12 power armor)
x1 HQ section
x1 Company Support section (x2 mortars, x2 heavy support weapons)
The guy that did Marine 2002 wrote an update called Solar Marine and did a campaign system called Final Frontier
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/40682/solar-marine
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/14474/final-frontier-mans-expansion-solar-system
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That's fascinating stuff. Thanks mate I'll check these out while I wait for the postman.
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Ooh, both those look well worth a worth a look! :o
I must ask though, lunar mortars? With that low a gravity would the shells ever come back down during the fight?
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One of my conundrums is the scale thing -- I'm mostly 28mm and some 6mm scifi (the old Renegade Legion game -- I have tons of it!), but I really like the 15mm Moongrunt stuff...but scale creep! Dang, I don't like having so many scales in my collection I guess.
C-in-C has a pretty decent 6mm collection that could work:
http://www.pfc-cinc.com/solar_empire_marines.html
http://www.pfc-cinc.com/page/page/312935.htm
How does the GZG stuff look -- any other 6mm product lines that could work?
For 6mm I've got some PacFed infantry from brigade that look like void suits, I just need to sculpt or find a way to convert backpacks onto them, which won't be a quick job!
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I must ask though, lunar mortars? With that low a gravity would the shells ever come back down during the fight?
Just means you can use a much bigger warhead (or throw the bombs much further)
(http://theminiaturespage.com/news/pics/2007/sep/785397a.jpg)
It looks like a US m244 mortar with a muzzle velocity of 240m/s would have a range of 37km on the moon (with a flight time of about three and a half minutes) (and the moon has an escape velocity of 2km/s odd so the bombs would come down)
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I stand corrected.
I finally got round to reading trough ASAT orbital combat. It's an interesting game with a lot of good points, but some parts of it are a mess, especially order of declarations. The game says most things are resolved at the same time but doesn't offer any mechanics on how to resolve this. Basically, the whole order of operations is borked. It goes move, detect, attack, defend. But there are choices you make for your detect phase that effect the opponent's detection in the same turn. o_o I think the easiest thing would be to write down your actions for each phase and then declare them together, but the books never mentions this. There are also some options such as evasive manoeuvres which can be used at two separate moments in the turn making it even harder to figure out when to declare this... o_o o_o I think I'm off to write a long question post on wargames vault because I do want to know how this game works.
Oh and finally not really a problem but more of a statement, the game doesn't have point values or any balancing mechanic like that. It's very much in the vein of more historic game systems where you simply play a scenario more then try to win a game. Nothing wrong with that, just FYI.
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Just means you can use a much bigger warhead (or throw the bombs much further)
(http://theminiaturespage.com/news/pics/2007/sep/785397a.jpg)
It looks like a US m244 mortar with a muzzle velocity of 240m/s would have a range of 37km on the moon (with a flight time of about three and a half minutes) (and the moon has an escape velocity of 2km/s odd so the bombs would come down)
Yes, mortars should be excellent weapons in a lunar war. Besides the low gravity being your friend in every way except perhaps flight time, the lack of atmosphere on many moons will simplify accurate targeting no end. Don't have to allow for wind in a vacuum. :)
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Spigot Mortars would be very useful on the Moon or Mars, nice bang for the weight. The mortar might be more of a small low velocity rocket.
With cost of transporting the Ammo around the rounds are likely to be guided (using hypergolic reaction micro-thrusters)
Usable metal ore is likely to be found so could make casing on site. If found organic material on planet/moon might be able to make the explosive component.
With the lack of atmosphere on moon & mars (1%) the round would either have to more fragmentation material or someway of increasing the blast effect. The problem with hi-frag would be the shear distance the shrapnel would fly.
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Spigot Mortars would be very useful on the Moon or Mars, nice bang for the weight. The mortar might be more of a small low velocity rocket.
With cost of transporting the Ammo around the rounds are likely to be guided (using hypergolic reaction micro-thrusters)
I was thinking that as well, with that little gravity or drag to fight not making them guided would be a shame. So basically turning every mortar into a javelin with ridiculous range then.
An interesting argument with the concussion vs fragmentation. I wonder if some form of energy weapon that would be impractical on earth would become viable. The sci-fi in me says plasma. But maybe we should be looking exactly the other direction. Super pressurised liquids might freeze their targets in place. I'm sure some parts of equipment wouldn't stand up to being flash frozen.
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An interesting argument with the concussion vs fragmentation. I wonder if some form of energy weapon that would be impractical on earth would become viable. The sci-fi in me says plasma. But maybe we should be looking exactly the other direction. Super pressurised liquids might freeze their targets in place. I'm sure some parts of equipment wouldn't stand up to being flash frozen.
With the need for spacesuits & other equipment to survive the temperature difference between being in sunlight & darkness I don't think a cyro-bomb would do much besides annoying them.
The frag problem could be reduced by using a air-bursting directional shrapnel blast (a bit like narrow angle claymore bomb) & the rear casing of bomb made of thick non-frag material (carbon nanotube version of fibre-glass), rear of casing would be strong enough to promote more of blast forward. For best effect the bomb would need to be guided.
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Another option might be a sort of paint round. If you can come up with a chemical that bonds to the materials suit visors and camera lenses are made of, you could easily achieve "soft kills" by blinding your targets. Not like you can just take your helmet off to clear your vision, after all.
Lunar combat might very well be a "Gentleman's War" where feuding spacers seek to minimize casualties due to small, highly-trained, hard-to-replace populations, fragile life support systmes, and a desire to preserve infrastructure wherever possible. Of course that falls apart as soon as someone starts playing nasty, but that might not happen. If the Lunar troops are up there long enough to start seeing themselves as locals that have more in common with each other than with Earther populations and politicians, you could easily see them refusing to slaughter one another.
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Quick update; got both orders in the mail today, and they look great! I will prep them for review soon so sit tight!
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the russians mounted a 20 something mm autocannon on one of their space stations and test fired it.
Recoil must have been interesting with something like that. I would have expected space to be full of gyrojects and Recoilless rifles. But then again you really should just mount a autocannon to a space station and fire it, just to see how it works in practise. :D
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Project Luna Review:
Habitation Sphere (Source: Brigade Models)
Hello, welcome to my review of the first Moonbase structure from Brigade Models; the Habitation Sphere. As follows are raw images of the item and all contents.
The Habitation Sphere is an imposing structure that is about 4 & 1/2 inches tall as it is wide.
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa337/Pepsi375mL/Habitat%20All.jpg)
(Habitation Sphere Contents: 1 Base Structure, Sphere Side A & B, six Sphere side panels.)
Note that while there are six side panels, you only have the option to exclude one panel, as five are required to complete the sphere.
The base structure is a solid piece, and has fine detail as shown in the below image.
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa337/Pepsi375mL/Habitat%20Base%20Side.jpg)
(Habitation Base Structure)
I've noticed that some clean up will be required around the door, however the detail is superb.
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa337/Pepsi375mL/Habitat%20Door.jpg)
Regarding clean up, the under parts of the Sphere will also need to be cleaned up as there are mold lines that prevent the Sphere from fitting together correctly, however this should be a straight forward task as the area the molds are located pose no risk of damaging details or sensitive areas. Below is an image of the Sphere parts on top of the structure.
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa337/Pepsi375mL/Habitat%20Base%20Top.jpg)
Despite the clean up required to complete this piece, I have to credit Brigade Models for the design and the detail included. There were no damages to detail or any surface issues. This is a solid looking piece that will add value to your board/table set up.
On a personal note, I am very pleased.
I hope you enjoyed that raw review, you may notice the metal pieces in the background of the shots, those are my GZG Moongrunt miniatures. I will review them soon.
Thank you for stopping by.
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Thanks, Ginsu
The Habitation Sphere is an imposing structure that is about 4 & 1/2 inches tall as it is wide.
So, with a different substructure, might the bucky ball work as a smaller sphere with 28mm figures, do you think?
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Thanks, Ginsu
So, with a different substructure, might the bucky ball work as a smaller sphere with 28mm figures, do you think?
You're welcome.
The only scale defining piece is the panel with the hatch on it. (Ref to the first image with the panels; Top row, far left).
If you exclude that piece and use the other five panels instead, then this building is suitable for 28mm, even 6mm for those on the other end of the spectrum.
what is the citadel thing you are doing the work on?
Hello Scurv, that's the Citidal Paint Station with a matching Citidal cutting mat, here is an image of it:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/413fUh6JMQL._SX425_.jpg)
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That Sphere looks like a Soccercup sry^^
For the Moonscape there are Old School Techniques better then printing I guess.
In this way the Old boys have did their Moonscape long before 3D print:
1. Make a wooden frame of your desired size.
2. Fill in DRY Plasterpowder in the frame and even it.
3. Take a larger Brush or better a Flower-Waterspraybottle and a Pipette.
4. Drop with the Pipette from different Heigth Waterdrops in the dry powder to form the larger crater.
5. Spray with the Flowerwaterbottle above it with different Nozzlesettings to create the smaller rough Surface.
6. Bring a Plasticfoile over the Frame without touching it. With smaller Plates use a Cardbox.
7. Put a transportable Heating plate, or Campingcooker aside it with a Pot of water under the Dome with the Plate.-> Alternative: Take you plate go in the next Steambath and wait several hours^^
8. Have an eye on it. tound about 20 min-30min let the water cook aside the Plate to steam the Dome.
9. Remove the Heatingplate and let to Steam another hour under the Dome.
10. Remove anything and let it dry without moving it.
Cheers Delta
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I think it was Revell, but someone made a 'Moonbase Alpha' model kit from the 'Space 1999' TV series. It is in a very small scale, might even be 1/300. I have one buried in my stack of models to do pile somewhere. You might still find one on the internet somewhere.
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I think it was Revell, but someone made a 'Moonbase Alpha' model kit from the 'Space 1999' TV series. It is in a very small scale, might even be 1/300. I have one buried in my stack of models to do pile somewhere. You might still find one on the internet somewhere.
AMT/ERTL did a re-release back in '98. Readily available for under $30 even today, multiple copies on ebay. It's much smaller than 1/300, usually listed as 1/3200, as seen by the teeny tiny Eagles the kit comes with. Still a neat kit, but not terribly useful for ground gaming. I've seen the parts used as objective/target markers for starship games though, with warships flying low over a lunar surface and defense cannon emplacements helping out the defending fleet. The scale of the base works pretty well with GZG's ship minis, making them look suitably huge and intimidating.
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There's also this Moonbase, more recent (1:1800 scale):
https://www.amazon.com/MPC-MPC803-3200-Space-1999/dp/B00JOYDC5I