Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: Rich H on 14 September 2016, 08:53:46 AM
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As normal not finished the T28 yet (that's going backwards...) but planning my next already
A41 Centurion Mk1. The version with the Polsten Cannon
After spending a couple of house with google images and drawing a blank I rememebred I've a bookshelf...
Stackpole British Armoured Fighting Vehicles - last drawing - A41 Mk1 with polsten cannon!
Plan will be to make the Mk1 and Mk2 versions. But I'll start with Mk1 and I can easily make it the Polsten or BESA version.
I'll haev to check the drawings see how the hull changes as I'd be nice to do the 20pdr and 105mm versions too if they are on the same (or similar) hull.
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Really pleased to see this one on the list & judging by your previous work I'm sure you'll do it justice.
20pdr armed MkIIIs were mostly straightforwardly up-gunned MkIIs - I don't think there's any structural difference, unlike between the MkI & II where a fairly serious up-armouring occurred. One of the visible differences seems to be that the early models (I suppose you could regard those with the turret Polsten/Besa mounts as pre production models, there being only 20 of them) lack the profusion of turret bins of the later models, plus there are the ones which had the rear facing Besa al la IS-2.
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Cheers.
I need to really dig into this it might be that the Mk2 might be a more sensible option if the hull is more prolific.
But I do like the idea of the polsten!
This chap is on a road island just down the road - I don't believe that the paint scheme is original!
(http://res.cloudinary.com/jpress/image/fetch/f_auto,ar_3:2,c_fill/http://www.leylandguardian.co.uk/webimage/1.4785412.1343574644!/image/1821549231.jpg)
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I think that you're probably right that the MkII is the way to go, (interesting as the Polsten/Besa prototypes are) It's turret would be simpler (a fully cast one as opposed to the welded one of the prototypes & MKI).
"Can I have mustard on mine please?"
"Certainly sir, just stand round by the front dispenser."
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cast is never simpler it's always curves!! lol
I'm planning on finding some decent drawings currently I'm a little confused about MG placement some have 2 flexible mount BESAs, some have rear turret BESAs (not found a pic of that though). I'm also going to research the hull changes, looks like stowage and track guards changed Mk1 to Mk2 but that's relatively minor. Need to check the glacis hasn't changed too much (It was far thicker on the Mk2)
Also might have found a contemporary soviet opponent... IS-7. It has 6 MGs and an HMG plus it's massive main gun.... but I'm getting ahead of myself....
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but I'm getting ahead of myself....
Standard. lol
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IS-4 is a cooler looking tank and some were actually built. I'd buy one.
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Not sure I agree its cooler... its just a fatter IS2 is it not? Heavier armour and similar weaponry. Most would assume its an IS2.
IS7 is bonkers. Distinctive and nuts.
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Not sure I agree its cooler... its just a fatter IS2 is it not? Heavier armour and similar weaponry. Most would assume its an IS2.
Looks nothing like an IS-3 or the IS-2 for that matter. Quite distinctive and actually manufactured to the tune of a couple of hundred.
Bit beyond your nominal time frame but if you want something distinctive you want the Object 279. Four sets of tracks and the flying saucer hull.
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(http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/USSR/photos/Is4_2.jpg)
(http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/soviet/photos/IS_IIM.png)
(http://images.mocpages.com/user_images/43214/1343045284m_SPLASH.jpg)
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OK, I see your point. IS-2 and IS-4. Different hull shape, totally different turret, different rear deck, sharper angle on the glacis plates, different auxiliary fuel drum placement. The models would be near identical at 30 feet. :)
The IS-7 is a nice looking monster, albeit almost a paper one. I just thought that as you were doing Centurions, that were produced albeit in small numbes, you'd fancy something similar. Your toys, your choice.
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Indeed ;)
In my opinion the IS-7 is the better looking of the two and the rule of cool wins. Plus the is4 is very similar in game terms to the is3. Big main gun and a coax.
T28 has to be finished first then the centurion.
Centurion will probably be the Mk2 as while the Mk1 is nice the Mk2 soldiered on for far longer so will have more appeal.
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I agree that the MkII is ultimately a better choice, the heavier armour & uprated engine stayed much the same for a long time after, plus you could arm it with either the 17 or 20 pdr guns (making an upgunned MKII or A MkIII) without having to worry about changes to the hull - looking forward to it!
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Small matter of a week at work then 2 weeks in LA working...
After that work will recommence with gusto!
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So been off sick (can't get too far away from the bathroom...) so it'd be rude not to use the time productively:
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f127/richardhumble/Mobile%20Uploads/20161206_170235_zpsnqgwwfb0.jpg) (http://s46.photobucket.com/user/richardhumble/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161206_170235_zpsnqgwwfb0.jpg.html)
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f127/richardhumble/Mobile%20Uploads/20161206_170223_zpseys9ztdp.jpg) (http://s46.photobucket.com/user/richardhumble/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161206_170223_zpseys9ztdp.jpg.html)
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f127/richardhumble/Mobile%20Uploads/FB_IMG_1481061533405_zpsryvtvga1.jpg) (http://s46.photobucket.com/user/richardhumble/media/Mobile%20Uploads/FB_IMG_1481061533405_zpsryvtvga1.jpg.html)
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f127/richardhumble/Mobile%20Uploads/20161207_165638_zpsuclpqefq.jpg) (http://s46.photobucket.com/user/richardhumble/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161207_165638_zpsuclpqefq.jpg.html)
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Its a bit of a hybrid. 3d printed suspension, laser cut wheels and plasticard hull at the mo.
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Nice 8) 8)
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i find these builds of your very interesting to see how u do them, thanks for sharing (oh and love your work)
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Looks spendid so far, I hope you overcome your alimentary distress soon so we can get to see the finished item.
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Gastric distress has subsided thanks!
Reprinted the Side plates in one piece, now thinking they need revising again...
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4th time (maybe 5th) as the printer playing up and the print was refusing to stick to the bed
Anyway.... idler, sprocket and return rollers done.
Had to do all of them in case some one wanted the Aussie Mk5 without the side plates on.
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f127/richardhumble/Mobile%20Uploads/20161211_222407_zpsd8oibjhk.jpg) (http://s46.photobucket.com/user/richardhumble/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161211_222407_zpsd8oibjhk.jpg.html)
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Sorry Rich what scale is this beauty going to be?
I wish I could cut plasticard straight like you can. It's a handicap I just can't seem to cut the simplest thing straight and square...
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1/56 for Die Waffenkammer.
Cutting plasticard is easy: I use a steel ruler adn a stanley knife. Once moderately firm score and snap it. Works for straight lines and external corners.
I generally cut strips then cut them down as needed. So if I need a rectangle 12x20mm I'll cut a strip 12mm then cut 20mm off that. Then save the rest for later.
I generally use 1mm thick but then use all sorts of other thicknesses for details.
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Great stuff matey ..... great to see the attention going into the wheels n tracks! :)
cheers
Brent
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I simply have to! They are the most obvious bit that gets skimped on and crap tracks make models look toy like IMHO.
The get skimped on because they are hard worka nd can take AGES!
Tortoise tracks:
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f127/richardhumble/Mobile%20Uploads/20160731_221609_zpsn1hhptuc.jpg)
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f127/richardhumble/Mobile%20Uploads/20160801_231327_zpsd25fjop7.jpg)
T-50 tracks
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f127/richardhumble/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150405_082702_zps2uudgdbh.jpg)
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f127/richardhumble/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150405_090002_zpsgienjkhh.jpg)
I'm fortunate that Jeff likes a challenge and manages to cast the 1mm thick tracks which means you get reasonably well proportioned tracks.
I do tend to omit the track guides as they are a little fragile but I will include some if they are obviously missing.
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:o :o brilliant
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I am enjoying this. I have 2 of the big diecast centurions (still with the original rubber tracks) which look about right for 28mm, I am hoping to pick up some tips to improve them.
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Christmas has slowed things up as apparently guests expect to eat at a table and the smell of solvents is not considered "Christmassy" enough...
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Christmas has slowed things up as apparently guests expect to eat at a table and the smell of solvents is not considered "Christmassy" enough...
Bah! Humbug...
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Back on the centurion now...
And in true form I've decided that the tracks are wrong so I've ripped them to bits and remade the backing plate 1mm thinner...
I've also started on the lumpy asymmetric cast turret which is proving to be a bigger paint than I thought as there are veyr few pictures of what I need (and there are loads of different marks to confuse thing too!)
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I look forward to seeing it.
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Need to find a decent lump of time to rebuild the tracks - mostly they survived being removed from the backing plates but a couple of bits need remaking.
The turret is roughed out, it'll not be as bad as I thought as despite it's complex shape the storage bins cover quite a lot of it!
Then it'll be the detail...
Next project is hovering too... had a few ideas... big heavy and soviet...
In my time line is the IS-7 but the Object 279 is sooo tempting...
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279,279,279...
But only after the A41 please....
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Object 279 ....swoon :-*
There's a good review of the Takom 1/35 kit that has lots of detail.
http://www.themodellingnews.com/2013/11/135th-scale-takom-object-279-build.html
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OK 279 it will be... :o 1959 is a bit late bit ferk it it looks amazing.
All those curves though will give me nightmares...
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Woo!
I imagine that they planned on covering up those tracks to an extent right, though is there any material to back this up?
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I dont think so as the shape was to stop nuclear blasts flipping it over!
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I dont think so as the shape was to stop nuclear blasts flipping it over!
Yep, that was the plan, though I imagine the new crew would be hosing out what was left of the previous occupants given the horrific irradiated tissue breakdown from being close enough to the blast for that to be an issue, probably one of the (many) reasons why the project didn't make it very far - cool looking thing though.
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All the heavy tanks were canned when kruchev declared no tank should weigh more than 37 tons. This one was 50+
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Have I mentioned I hate cast turrets.
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Makes life tricky with anything Russian post 1945. ;)
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At least they are sort of one upturned bowl shape. THis Centurion turret is all odd angles adn rounded corners (which will then almost but not quite be covered in stowage boxes)
The 279 will be a total PITA I know already but at least he hull curves are relatively gentle so I'll try and sheet that with thin plasticard.
I have a plan for that (just need to finish the Centurion before starting...) The turret will be 'interesting' as it's got a few lumps and bumps on it too.
Got a good set of drawings though.
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(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f127/richardhumble/Mobile%20Uploads/20170131_233218_zpsgiklbdu3.jpg) (http://s46.photobucket.com/user/richardhumble/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20170131_233218_zpsgiklbdu3.jpg.html)
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Looking great!
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Very good.
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Superb 8) 8)
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Looking good!
Now I wonder if we can talk you into making a Conqueror? It's one of the few post-war British tanks that's unavailable in a suitable scale.
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The long and random list of stuff in no particular order:
Object 279
T-37 (Soviet Amphibious tank)
T-29/T-30 (US Heavy)
M-6 (US Heavy)
T-31 (Sherman Demolition tank)
Conqueror (It's been in the background for a while 130mm gun!)
FV4005 (Dog kennel on a Centurion with a 130mm gun and autoloader)
The list waxes and wanes daily... ;D
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Yay! 279!
And FV4005 - that is the giraffe type vehicle rather than the S Tank lookalike?
[Edit]according to Wikipedia it is the later British entry into the KV2/Bishop market.
[Edit 2] arcane afv has stage 1 as a girraffe, stage 2 KV2/Bishop.
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Stage 2 - 8.2" gun IIRC.
In the mean time (I said the list changes regularly) how about something a little more obscure but in keeping with the Centurion....
Oxford Tracks Carrier.
No good drawings I can find, but a few pictures.
It's a longer heavier Universal Carrier allegedly used at the end of WW2 and in Korea.
Not found any pics of the APC version but there is an arty tractor version I've got pics of. (There is one in a Chinese museum!)
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Thats another interesting idea (there's also the Cambridge - a little later, 1950 or so).
Not found any pics of the APC version
Is there a difference? Like you I've only ever found images of the one type - a larger Uni Carrier, also open topped, but it's undeniably a very cool post 45 project.
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Yes I've found those pics, but I was expecting there to be space for more men!
There are only seats for 4 +2 crew from what I can see.
Some pics of one in China here:
http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/showgallery.php?cat=775
They are a bit confused...
No shots of the engine bay sadly.
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Engine bay and tiny cabin:
(http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll111/horsa/Misc/OxfordPostWar.jpg)
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There are photographs of survivors here:
http://www.massimocorner.com/afv/Surviving_Oxford_and_Cambridge_Carriers.pdf (http://www.massimocorner.com/afv/Surviving_Oxford_and_Cambridge_Carriers.pdf)
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Nice find - thanks!
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It's taken a couple of hours work but I've not got some workable drawings of the Oxford.
Obviously they are not completely accurate but they will be good enough for 28mm heroics ;)
The proportions look about right and it's as close as I can get given the limited info.
Must try to do more centurion tomorrow... but it's not likely lol
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(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f127/richardhumble/Mobile%20Uploads/20170205_101654_zps6uiluc6y.jpg) (http://s46.photobucket.com/user/richardhumble/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20170205_101654_zps6uiluc6y.jpg.html)
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f127/richardhumble/Mobile%20Uploads/20170205_183109_zps4rdoioq7.jpg) (http://s46.photobucket.com/user/richardhumble/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20170205_183109_zps4rdoioq7.jpg.html)
Good progress made. Still plenty more to do though!
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:-*
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That is stunning 8) 8) :-* :-*
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Looking very good.
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Thanks!
Left to do:
Mantle canvas greenstuff
Front glacis lamps
Drinking water filler
Various clips and catches
Smoke dischargers (Damn fiddly buggers)
Aussie options:
Glacis spare road wheels
Vietnam extended range fuel tank
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That looks gorgeous, will you be doing a 20pdr sans bore extractor, or even a 17pdr option (for us weird war weirdies) to cover earlier Mk II & IIIs?
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Thanks!
Left to do:
Mantle canvas greenstuff
Front glacis lamps
Drinking water filler
Various clips and catches
Smoke dischargers (Damn fiddly buggers)
Aussie options:
Glacis spare road wheels
Vietnam extended range fuel tank
You may wish to think about some other 'extras' to add versatility. Spare track lengths, the glacis plate stowage bin, fire extinguishers and a searchlight option. A number of Aussie Mk5s sported the searchlight in Vietnam. An Aussie version also really demands turret rear stowage baskets as well.
Given what a wonderful base model it is, you should really consider making the AVRE version with the 165mm demo gun.
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Ooh, an AVRE would be good.
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Thanks guys yes the aus version needs more thinking. It needs more racks on the roof for 30cal too.
It will also need a hole drilling for the extra co-ax mg.
Was the AVRE a Mk5? Need to check...
And barrel sans extractor is already done ;)
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Hmmm turret basket looks tricky in resin...
It'll be mega flimsy. I'll ask Jeff.
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The AVRE on the other hand looks possible....
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The AVRE on the other hand looks possible....
Mk5 hull. Actually the only difference between Mk 3 and Mk 5 gun tanks was the co-ax, save for those Mk 5s converted to the 105mm gun. So using your hull AVRE should indeed be possible.
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Nice resource here:
http://preservedtanks.com/Profile.aspx?UniqueID=2305
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A touch more progress:
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f127/richardhumble/Mobile%20Uploads/20170205_183140_zpsardxmvy3.jpg) (http://s46.photobucket.com/user/richardhumble/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20170205_183140_zpsardxmvy3.jpg.html)
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f127/richardhumble/Mobile%20Uploads/20170208_005925_zpscslytksw.jpg) (http://s46.photobucket.com/user/richardhumble/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20170208_005925_zpscslytksw.jpg.html)
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f127/richardhumble/Mobile%20Uploads/20170208_010207_zpsgrlov4ur.jpg) (http://s46.photobucket.com/user/richardhumble/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20170208_010207_zpsgrlov4ur.jpg.html)
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Looking at that the gun looks a bit out of proportion... I'll remake it.
I need more plastic tube for the smoke dischargers.
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bloody lovely :o :-*
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Awesome.
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Thanks.
You may have noticed that's the Aussie vietnam extended range fuel tank there too.
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Looking wonderful :-* There's also a Brit/commonwealth armoured fuel bowser that might be an interesting side project.
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Pretty much crazy! Love it :-*
I'll see about drawings...
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Pretty much crazy! Love it :-*
I'll see about drawings...
If you fancy some references for the trailer and indeed the external ER fuel tank for the Australian Cents, then there's a 1/72 model by ACE or UM (forget which) that has the parts for both. UM and ACE tend to be fairly accurate models.
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The ACE site has some good views of the trailer.
I've made a start... I'm blaming Ballardian!
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Current state of the Centurion. Bits marked * are not done yet
Basic Centurion III/V consists of:
Hull
Tracks x2
Side skirts x2
Turret
Commander’s hatch
Driver’s hatch
Barrel (Fume extractor or not)
Turret track stowage
Glacis track stowage
Glacis stowage box
Smoke dischargers (mounts need to be built)
Turret Cable drum* (Remove the current one and replace with an optional one)
Australian Centurion in Vietnam extras:
Glacis roadwheels*
Turret basket*
Searchlight (probably in the turret basket)*
Turret 30 cal mount*
Turret 30 cal ammo rack*
Long range fuel tank
Sighting 50 cal barrel (It will need a hole drilling in the mantle for this)
MkIII AVRE extras:
165mm demolition gun
Fascine carrier*
Dozer blade*
Turret basket*
Reinforced tow hitch*
Other extras:
Mono-wheel fuel trailer (WIP)
AVRE Trailer* (If I can find more info)
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At the risk of appearing a knob.....
Australian Cents had three aiming vanes atop the fume extractor of the 20pdr. This was to allow for quick aiming of the canister round, it provided a rough dispersal guide to to gunner and TC. Not beyond the ability of even the most inexperienced modeller to add three bits of plastic strip but as you are already making barrel variants it might be worth the minimal effort.
There were Australian Cents with the Type A barrel (no fume extractor) but I'm not aware of any photos showing their deployment to SVN.
Best to ensure that the front sectionrack guards can be filed back or removed. The bazooka plates were typically left off on service in Vietnam and often the front section of the track guards were removed. This was due to the accumulation of mud and vegetation and the consequent risk of damage to the running gear.
Hope that helps.
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I noticed the vanes but didn't know they were for cannoster. Thanks!
I need to work out how best to make things so one model covers as much as possible. So i might put them on. Always easy to cut off.
Not sure how to do the basket. Its a right awkward bastard of angles. Had a go but ran out of time and dropped it... its under the workbench somewhere now... need to start over.
I'll focus on the smoke dischargers and cable drum tomorrow. Get the basic tank built. Then I'll get that basket sorted as that is going to take a while...
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Oh and the track guards are only 1mm thick. Easily trimmed. The Aussie version will need some skill as itll need a hole drilling in the mantle for the 50
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Smoke launcher brackets made, turret basket structure made and vane sights added ;)
Got to add the cuploa vane sight too.
Pics tomorrow....
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You're a machine :-)
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(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f127/richardhumble/Mobile%20Uploads/20170210_183943_zpsgi9q9dpe.jpg) (http://s46.photobucket.com/user/richardhumble/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20170210_183943_zpsgi9q9dpe.jpg.html)
The central row from Left-Right:
Turret track stowage, smoke discharger, cupola hatch, Driver's hatch, smoke discharger, glacis stowage box, Glacis track stowagex2
Next row:
Turret basket with searchlight, extended fuel tank, Glacis roadwheels, straight barrel 17/20pdr, fume extracotr barrel with canister vanes, 165mm demolition gun
The bits bottom right are the start of the monowheel trailer.
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Is it tomorrow already?
Excellent.
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lol Er no idea ;D
I need to make myself some 30cal boxes and jerry cans and racks for them.
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That is fucking amazing!
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That is fucking amazing!
What he said! :o :-*
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Beautiful job :-* Fond as I am of my FOA Centurion III, I'm obviously going to have to find room for another one (& a reason to jam it into games).
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Build it as a 165 and HESH things into oblivion ;)
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(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f127/richardhumble/16706987_10154940531676774_1939522492_n_zpswomvqwc8.jpg) (http://s46.photobucket.com/user/richardhumble/media/16706987_10154940531676774_1939522492_n_zpswomvqwc8.jpg.html)
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FV4005 Stage 2 started...
(http://www.arcaneafvs.com/fv4004_5/fv4005_stage2__001.jpg)
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This is so inspirational watching this take shape. (The Centurion I mean, you can do the FV4005 later!)
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Er.... the FV4005 turret is built.... (Its only that turret on the Centurion hull ;D)
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(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f127/richardhumble/Mobile%20Uploads/20170213_073233_zpsyiv2nt8h.jpg) (http://s46.photobucket.com/user/richardhumble/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20170213_073233_zpsyiv2nt8h.jpg.html)
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:o hell that was quick, looks great
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Have you given up sleep or does someone lock you in a shed till you produce? (Another nice job on a slightly mad project -the FV4005 that is.)
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I find I can't get to sleep sometimes so spend a couple of hours watching trash on TV (Star Trek Next Gen at the mo) and build.
This turret is pretty simple, it would have been even simpler if I'd planned it properly... Only took about 1.5 hours to get this far.
Just needs the barbette for it to sit on (Laser cut - too noisy for night time), a couple more reinforcement ribs under the rear dog-kennel, some lifting eyes, a block on the front armour and the turret roof details. Plus a few rivets for good measure. Oh and a door on the back! Probably an hour's work.
Remaining on this project are:
Mk3 - couple of tow cable clips and the travel lock
Aussie Mk5/1 - done
AVRE 165 - Couple of fliddly bits on the dozer
FV4005 - as above.
Write pictorial instructions to ID the bits!
Hopefully finished by the weekend. I think Jeff is planning on selling the hull and turrets seperately so you can mix and match.