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Miniatures Adventure => Colonial Adventures => Topic started by: Eric the Shed on September 30, 2016, 09:37:24 AM

Title: Update: TMWWBK versus Black Powder for Zulu Wars (25/10)
Post by: Eric the Shed on September 30, 2016, 09:37:24 AM
Having painted the armies we fought our first Zulu battle on Monday night in the shed - full AAR on the blog

http://shedwars.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/zulu-wars-fighting-retreat.html (http://shedwars.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/zulu-wars-fighting-retreat.html)

(https://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j375/ErictheShed/Zulu%20Fighting%20Retreat/ZZ6_zpsikchdzzh.jpg)

(https://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j375/ErictheShed/Zulu%20Fighting%20Retreat/ZZ13_zpsv4unrddt.jpg)

(https://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j375/ErictheShed/Zulu%20Fighting%20Retreat/ZZ19_zpspzez2oeu.jpg)

Title: Re: Shed Wars - The first Zulu Battle
Post by: Conquistador on September 30, 2016, 10:37:40 PM
" 'Wow,' All he could say was, 'Wow.' "
Title: Re: Shed Wars - The first Zulu Battle
Post by: vodkafan on October 01, 2016, 09:59:52 AM
I really enjoyed reading your game report. Visually very exciting too.
Title: Re: Shed Wars - The first Zulu Battle
Post by: Eric the Shed on October 01, 2016, 11:51:25 AM
Thank you guys...it was great fun


Title: Re: Shed Wars - The first Zulu Battle
Post by: dartfrog on October 01, 2016, 11:57:40 AM
Never do things by halves do you  :D
Very nice. How's the new shed faring?
Title: Re: Shed Wars - The first Zulu Battle
Post by: Eric the Shed on October 01, 2016, 03:41:48 PM
Never do things by halves do you  :D
Very nice. How's the new shed faring?

its doing well - come down with John sometime
Title: Re: Shed Wars - The first Zulu Battle
Post by: dartfrog on October 01, 2016, 10:44:13 PM
Cheers, be good to see how the build went. Off for a gaming week so, when I'm back...
Be keen to take down a few red coats or tramp up the Congo.
Title: Re: Shed Wars - The first Zulu Battle
Post by: zuluwar on October 01, 2016, 11:21:11 PM
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :o :o :o

splendid
Title: Re: Shed Wars - The first Zulu Battle
Post by: Argonor on October 02, 2016, 01:18:23 AM
Fantastic!

I doubt that I shall ever have that many Zulus painted up (but I may go for a more 'speed-painting' approach when I have finished my IHMN impi to get a somewhat larger force ready for the table).
Title: Re: Shed Wars - The first Zulu Battle
Post by: skirmisher on October 03, 2016, 11:22:47 PM
Fantastic looking forces and sounds like a thrilling battle. Very inspiring. I am having fun with "Black Powder" in Zululand myself at present. Look forward to seeing more reports of these impressive armies.
Title: Re: Shed Wars - The first Zulu Battle
Post by: Eric the Shed on October 14, 2016, 04:43:54 PM
Hi folks - prepping for the second battle (taking place on Monday night ) has started. We are going to be using The Men Who Would be Kings ruleset with some tweaks. For these amendments and the unit cards prepared head over to the blog

http://shedwars.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/the-men-who-would-be-kings-unit-cards.html (http://shedwars.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/the-men-who-would-be-kings-unit-cards.html)

(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-L1rnPoCx0Pw/WAD2G3-2m5I/AAAAAAAABaA/SPImZTDxC3kXeaaoKI-mR5Fr7iOpE71rwCLcB/s640/British%2BInf%2Bcard.jpg)

Wish us luck - the Batrep will go up the following day (hopefully)

Title: Re: Preparing for the second Zulu Battle - TMWWBK Unit Cards
Post by: Hu Rhu on October 14, 2016, 05:10:06 PM
Great BATREP Giles.  That board looks fantastic.
Title: Re: Preparing for the second Zulu Battle - TMWWBK Unit Cards
Post by: Romark on October 14, 2016, 06:46:40 PM
Great looking game Giles,entertaining aar,oops , I meant batrep  ;)

Cheers

Keith
Title: Re: Preparing for the second Zulu Battle - TMWWBK Unit Cards
Post by: Eric the Shed on October 14, 2016, 09:09:22 PM
thanks guys....


Hu Rhu - I have started painting up the drift - great piece of kit
Title: Re: Preparing for the second Zulu Battle - TMWWBK Unit Cards
Post by: shadowking1957 on October 14, 2016, 09:21:34 PM
Superb game and report. very impressive.
Title: Re: Preparing for the second Zulu Battle - TMWWBK Unit Cards
Post by: syrinx0 on October 15, 2016, 02:06:31 AM
Beautiful looking game as usual; terrain and figures.   :-*
Looking forward to the next installment.
Title: Re: Preparing for the second Zulu Battle - TMWWBK Unit Cards
Post by: Kamandi on October 15, 2016, 08:09:53 PM
Have you published the cards Eric? It would save me making up my own....
Title: Re: Preparing for the second Zulu Battle - TMWWBK Unit Cards
Post by: Eric the Shed on October 15, 2016, 10:09:44 PM
Pm me with your email and I'll send you them
Title: Re: Preparing for the second Zulu Battle - TMWWBK Unit Cards
Post by: fastolfrus on October 16, 2016, 10:37:04 AM
The cards look jolly useful.
Could I join the queue?
Title: Re: Preparing for the second Zulu Battle - TMWWBK Unit Cards
Post by: Eric the Shed on October 16, 2016, 08:15:34 PM
Just pm me with your email address

These are proving very popular
Title: Re: Preparing for the second Zulu Battle - TMWWBK Unit Cards
Post by: LCpl McDoom on October 17, 2016, 09:34:37 AM
Those cards look really useful for multi-player games  :)

Most impressed, and even more motivated to get my own MWWBK gaming underway. Many thanks.

Title: Re: Preparing for the second Zulu Battle - TMWWBK Unit Cards
Post by: Stern Rake Studio on October 17, 2016, 12:06:28 PM
Awesome pictures, figures and terrain!
Title: Re: Preparing for the second Zulu Battle - TMWWBK Unit Cards
Post by: LordSpode1879 on October 17, 2016, 10:48:37 PM
Splendid figures and those cards are fantastic!
Title: Massive Zulu Battle TMWWBK
Post by: Eric the Shed on October 19, 2016, 09:17:25 AM
Second Zulu War battle was fought on Monday using the Men Who Would Be Kings ruleset - 100 points of Brits versus 150 points of Zulus

Lots of pictures on the blog and a critique of the ruleset

http://shedwars.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/encounter-in-veldt-tmwwbk-engagement.html (http://shedwars.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/encounter-in-veldt-tmwwbk-engagement.html)

(https://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j375/ErictheShed/ZULU%20TMWWBK/ZZ7_zpsgd7trvty.jpg)

(https://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j375/ErictheShed/ZULU%20TMWWBK/ZZ32_zpsqankklex.jpg)

interested to hear other peoples thoughts on this ruleset

Title: Re: UPDATE Massive Zulu Battle using TMWWBK rules (19/10
Post by: Codsticker on October 19, 2016, 03:36:25 PM
Great AAR and review. I haven't bought the rules yet but I am familiar with Lion Rampant. I am a little suprised that activations all require the same roll- one of the things I really liked about the LR system was the differing rolls, which gave the units character. As the system is really designed for smaller actions it looks like you guys did a great job tailoring it for a larger battle.
Title: Re: UPDATE Massive Zulu Battle using TMWWBK rules (19/10
Post by: Eric the Shed on October 19, 2016, 07:03:59 PM
So far emailed out 20 sets of cards so far...they are obviously popular
Title: Re: UPDATE Massive Zulu Battle using TMWWBK rules (19/10
Post by: Argonor on October 19, 2016, 10:22:45 PM
Excellent battle, and nice with the thoughts on the rules!
Title: Re: UPDATE Massive Zulu Battle using TMWWBK rules (19/10
Post by: vodkafan on October 19, 2016, 10:41:59 PM
 Eric I really enjoyed following your battle, and your examination of the rules was even more interesting. Your proposed amendments and tweaks sounded sensible and well thought out. I can hardly wait till you refight this with Black Powder and compare the two. Lots of cutting edge gaming going on in that shed....
Title: Re: UPDATE Massive Zulu Battle using TMWWBK rules (19/10
Post by: Eric the Shed on October 20, 2016, 10:09:56 AM
Thank you gentlemen for your kind comments. I can confirm the same engagement will be fought using Black Powder on Monday. I'll put synopsis of how the rules differed and of course how the battle fared later on in the week.

I am currently building the Rourkes Drift models from 4 Ground so in the next couple of weeks I'll be posting up these and my thoughts on how we can fight this great battle in the shed
Title: Re: UPDATE Massive Zulu Battle using TMWWBK rules (19/10
Post by: SteveBurt on October 20, 2016, 10:45:30 AM
We've used Black Powder for Zulu War stuff.
While it was an entertaining game, it felt nothing like a Zulu War game and had lots of individual units whizzing round the table like fireworks.
TMWWBK is a big skirmish game, not a battle game, hence the lack of flank/rear rules and so on.

The best rules for massed battles we've used are Victorian Steel and Battles for Empire (the latter is sort of based on Fire & Fury)
Title: Re: UPDATE Massive Zulu Battle using TMWWBK rules (19/10
Post by: flags_of_war on October 20, 2016, 10:54:49 AM
Awesome stuff as always Eric.
Title: Re: UPDATE Massive Zulu Battle using TMWWBK rules (19/10
Post by: LordSpode1879 on October 21, 2016, 05:26:09 PM
Do you think you will persist with TMWWBK?
Title: Re: UPDATE Massive Zulu Battle using TMWWBK rules (19/10
Post by: Eric the Shed on October 21, 2016, 10:07:37 PM
Do you think you will persist with TMWWBK?

Don't know yet...we are going to use black powder again on Monday to do a comparison and I have acquired a copy of the sword and the flame

I am also tempted to do a mash up of tmwwbk and muskets and tomahawks..I love the simplicity of combat in both sets and I think the activation of M&T might work for this genre..

I am also working on a bespoke set of rules for rorkes drift...thinking a zonal style of game


Title: Re: UPDATE Massive Zulu Battle using TMWWBK rules (19/10
Post by: Codsticker on October 22, 2016, 04:49:55 PM
Don't know yet...we are going to use black powder again on Monday to do a comparison and I have acquired a copy of the sword and the flame
We played quite a few games of The Sword and The Flame ; quite fun but I think you will find resolving melee's in large battles rather tedious- you might want to come up with a simpler/more streamlined system.
Title: Re: UPDATE Massive Zulu Battle using TMWWBK rules (19/10
Post by: tim at frontline on October 23, 2016, 12:34:59 AM
Played our first game of TMWWBK rules set in the Sudan and a great time was had by all. They are an easy set to pick up and have the big bonus of being able to be used solo. Like most rules we have tinkered a little, not becouse they need it more for personal taste. We will be trying out the following in the next game;
In combat with close order troops enemy uses all its available models not equal to close order numbe.r
A unit contacted in flank or rear are 1pt easier to hit.
A unit useing volly firing can only target units within their flank lines.
Only units in skirmish order can fire 360 degree.
All other firing is at 180 degree (except volly fire ).
Close order troops attacked in flank or rear lose their +1 combat mod.
+1 for each secure flank/rear to rally test roll.
- 1/2 pt for each casualy taken in the battle (round down) from rally test roll
-1 if casualties taken from flank or rear attack/firing.
And after reading it in the shed war blog, Generals add +1 to activation rolls within a given radius.

We will see how the next game goes and adjust to suit.
 
Title: Re: UPDATE Massive Zulu Battle using TMWWBK rules (19/10
Post by: Eric the Shed on October 23, 2016, 08:30:56 AM
Played our first game of TMWWBK rules set in the Sudan and a great time was had by all. They are an easy set to pick up and have the big bonus of being able to be used solo. Like most rules we have tinkered a little, not becouse they need it more for personal taste. We will be trying out the following in the next game;
In combat with close order troops enemy uses all its available models not equal to close order numbe.r
A unit contacted in flank or rear are 1pt easier to hit.
A unit useing volly firing can only target units within their flank lines.
Only units in skirmish order can fire 360 degree.
All other firing is at 180 degree (except volly fire ).
Close order troops attacked in flank or rear lose their +1 combat mod.
+1 for each secure flank/rear to rally test roll.
- 1/2 pt for each casualy taken in the battle (round down) from rally test roll
-1 if casualties taken from flank or rear attack/firing.
And after reading it in the shed war blog, Generals add +1 to activation rolls within a given radius.

We will see how the next game goes and adjust to suit.
 


Interesting amendments - personally I would just let units attack is if pinned if caught in flanks or rear - ie only half can fight. Its easier to remember.

As far as our generals were concerned they added +1 to rally rolls if unit within 6 inches and once/turn they could make one unit automatically perform any permitted action (as if they were in charge)
Title: Re: UPDATE Massive Zulu Battle using TMWWBK rules (19/10
Post by: sjwalker51 on October 23, 2016, 09:07:08 AM
I'm with Eric; wherever possible use an existing mechanism rather than add a new one. Attacks on flank and rear means the unit fights with half dice, as if Pinned. And then the rule lawyers will want to discuss from where the attacker has to start its move in order to count as being on the flank or rear...

You risk over-complicating a very good rule set if you start adding too many modifiers like 'secure flanks and rear' or adding Skirmish order as a third formation. Having said that, there are tweaks worth considering, some generic and others period-specific for added period feel.

For larger games, we've also restricted Volley Fire to targets directly to the front of the firers.

Units testing to rally at 50% strength or less do so at a further -1 modifier, and units at 25% or less that fail any Rally test are automatically removed whatever the final score (not just 2 or less) - this removes all those irritating 2-3 figure units that refuse to go away and clutter up the table.

In our Zulu games so far we've ruled that British regular infantry and cavalry do not have to take a Pinning test in response to the destruction/removal of a friendly native unit.

We use Force Leaders (1 per 24 points) for larger games where we don't want to have individual unit leader traits. They have Move as a Free Action, usually as Cavalry of an appropriate type. They have their own Leadership value and trait as usual. They give a +1 modifier to Rally tests made by any unit within 6" unless their trait suggests otherwise (Hapless, Brutal, Shirker etc). They can also join a unit and assume command, using their Leadership instead of that of the unit (usually useful if the unit is Leaderless or led by a Hapless type). Traits only apply to the Leader himself and any unit he is attached to. An unattached Leader may not be fired on but may be Attacked, fighting with 2 dice. A Leader is never Pinned but leaving a Pinned Unit means a further -1 modifier when that unit next tests to Rally and it cannot count the effect of the Leader being within 6".

I think MWWBK gives us a great too-kit with which to construct our own set of 'perfect' colonial rules based on our own preconceptions, much as Dan himself says in the section on optional rules.

One final point; is it me, or is the layout of the rulebook really confusing? I find myself constantly flicking through trying to find the relevant section I need. It's got a lot better since I put together my own QR sheet, which I'm using with unit reference cards similar to those designed by Mr Shed.
Title: Re: UPDATE Massive Zulu Battle using TMWWBK rules (19/10
Post by: Mick_in_Switzerland on October 23, 2016, 01:45:29 PM
Thank-you for the cards
Mick
Title: Update: TMWWBK versus Black Powder for Zulu Wars (25/10)
Post by: Eric the Shed on October 25, 2016, 11:59:52 AM
Hi Folks

I have written up a comparison between Black Powder and the TMWWBK's up on the blog...

http://shedwars.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/zulu-wars-black-powder-versus-tmwwbk.html (http://shedwars.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/zulu-wars-black-powder-versus-tmwwbk.html)

thoughts welcome
Title: Re: Update: TMWWBK versus Black Powder for Zulu Wars (25/10)
Post by: Codsticker on October 25, 2016, 04:22:28 PM
Good and fair review. *thumbs up*
Title: Re: Update: TMWWBK versus Black Powder for Zulu Wars (25/10)
Post by: tim at frontline on October 27, 2016, 11:38:54 PM
Just read the replies from Eric and Sjwalker51, good points if my inital addition don't work I'll certanly give the suggestions a try. Flanks and rear are and were important to troops in action and I feel this needs to be added in some way.
Title: Re: Update: TMWWBK versus Black Powder for Zulu Wars (25/10)
Post by: vodkafan on October 28, 2016, 08:57:21 AM
This has been an interesting experiment and a great thread to read thanks.
Title: Re: Update: TMWWBK versus Black Powder for Zulu Wars (25/10)
Post by: LCpl McDoom on October 28, 2016, 09:23:57 AM
It's a really good assessment that will help me with my own thoughts and ideas on doing larger games. I may well keep MWWBK for the large skirmish stuff, and BP for the larger set-piece battles. That aside, some of the comments on this blog post and your previous one may also help in refining MWWBK further for some VSF/Gothic ideas I have. I do like the rules, as many have said, it's a really handy 'toolkit' to build on.

My commiserations on your loss too.
Title: Re: Update: TMWWBK versus Black Powder for Zulu Wars (25/10)
Post by: LordSpode1879 on October 28, 2016, 05:25:36 PM
Very interesting and useful comparison thank you!

Commiserations on your loss!
Title: Re: Update: TMWWBK versus Black Powder for Zulu Wars (25/10)
Post by: syrinx0 on October 28, 2016, 05:40:06 PM
Another great review.  I like BP for a fun quick game but unless you add commanders, the Zulu do seem to grind to halt too easily.  The way our gaming group rolled in one engagement the Zulu never once made it into combat.

Sorry to hear of your loss.