Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => VSF Adventures => Topic started by: Sinewgrab on February 18, 2009, 05:21:00 AM
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As many of you know, I recently started building an Aeronef (coming along quite well actually) and I was fully planning on putting American sailors and marines on it - then along comes my wife. I was grumbling one evening that there were too many other people making US forces, and that there were far too many Prussian, British, French, Belgian, etc...when she asked out of the blue "Well, you're half Norwegian - why don't you find out what they were up to in the late 1800's and make your forces from Norway? The flag is neat, anyway - and so are the other Scandanavian flags. Do an allied force."
My first thought of course, was no Norwegian would be caught dead working with a Swede, but that was my grandfather talking, not me. My second thought was, well, why not? What WERE the Vikings up to at this point in history? Anyone have a hint as to what models would be good to use, sources for history, etc? Any good reason not to?
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No real reason not to, except that Norway was a territory of the Swedes until the 20th century, so in the period, you'd be looking at Swedish forces or, perhaps, an independence or separatist movement.
-Doc
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Hmm, an even better reason to have both flags on vessels. I never realized that they were tied together until 1905 - until now. Again, the LAF forces me to learn history I was blissfully ignorant of previously. When I started work on my pirate ship, I started reading up on them - and found that my own country's history had been ignored through school. I never knew why Tripoli was in the Marine's song before that. Barbary pirates extorting money from America - who'd a'thunk it?
So, what kind of uniforms would I be trying to use for Norsk/Swede forces?
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Speaking of vikiings... why don't you make something like a raiding party or pirates of some sort. I don't necessarily mean yo ho ho and all that, but they could be along the same lines. Then you could have mercenaries and dissenters from all over the world.
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Speaking of vikiings... why don't you make something like a raiding party or pirates of some sort. I don't necessarily mean yo ho ho and all that, but they could be along the same lines. Then you could have mercenaries and dissenters from all over the world.
Already have my pirates for fantasy and swashbuckling - I'd rather build a force that is somewhat different, yet connects with me personally somehow.
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There was a strong movement for independence in Norway - Until 1814, Norway was a part of the kingdom of Denmark, but we bet on the wrong horse, so Sweden got to get Norway after the collapse of napoleonic France.
The Norwegian flag is, btw, the Danish flag with a blue 'ribbon of freedom' added to the white cross.
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Hmm, the internet is holding back on me, can't seem to find anything between 1814-1939. Must be out there, at the very least, there were trade interests in Africa.
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Its a nice idea... I like it!
http://marksrussianmilitaryhistory.info/NorwayPhoto/Norway1890.html -> might be of interest as a starting point? The uniform looks vaguely tutonic, so you should be able to get away with using converted prussians....
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Norwegian_Army_guarding_Swedish_border_1905.jpg - a bit later, and the uniform is looking a bit more Austrian
http://www.svartkrutt.net/articles/vis.php?id=3 -> seems to have a fair number of bits about scandinavian rifles of that short of period
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My first thought of course, was no Norwegian would be caught dead working with a Swede
Grumble, grumble... ungrateful yokels... grumble... wouldn't have the Nobel Peace Prize if it wasn't for a Swede... grumble grumble... (and so on ad nauseam)
;)
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My first thought of course, was no Norwegian would be caught dead working with a Swede
Grumble, grumble... ungrateful yokels... grumble... wouldn't have the Nobel Peace Prize if it wasn't for a Swede... grumble grumble... (and so on ad nauseam)
;)
Is why the Norwegian Parliament determines the Peace Prize winner. At that point in history the Norwegian parliament was only responsible for the domestic situation in Norway, not foreign policy of the joint kingdom, hence Nobel thought it to be above getting influenced.
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No real reason not to, except that Norway was a territory of the Swedes until the 20th century, so in the period, you'd be looking at Swedish forces or, perhaps, an independence or separatist movement.
-Doc
Indeed, it was.
here is the link to FOTW with the Norvegian flags, you can find some interesting ones:
http://www.fotw.net/flags/no-l0001.html#histflag
As fas as it concerns uniforms:
There were some Norvegian units when united with Sweden. SO, they had similar uniforms.
Generally speaking swedish army had a similar uniform to prussia with pickelhaube etc. While Swedish uniforms were blue with yellow piping, I have seen in one of the links provided by lazy dragon that norwegians had light blue uniform with red piping (ro black for engineers).
Usually, at least at early stages of any separation, the new uniforms could follow the earlier scheme, since they were available.
The task is rather easy. Use Prussians with paint conversion adding new flags and voila, you have your Norwegian army!
[on the other hand you can take generic historic details and make another army, completele fictional. You may add hussars,lancers and whatever you like, inventing new colour schemes!)
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Eureka have some nice Danes which you could throw into the melting pot
http://eurekamin.com.au/index.php?cPath=87_126_141&sort=3a
and here is a Tradition Norwegian from 1900 54mm
(http://www.traditionoflondon.com/Products/Images/54mm/T54S12.jpg)
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I have actually been looking strongly at using the uniforms from Hans Majestet Kongens Garde, as they were existing long before the separation - and the figure Lowtardog references is definitely one of them. Anyone doing models with bowler hats?
You guys are recommending Prussians - who does the best ones? I like good clean models, with detail but not drowning in it.
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Perhaps some Alpini heads would work they have that big feather and such.
Are you looking for late in the century or more mid century? as WW1 might be the way to go for Pikelhaube (sp) figures or you could look at Foudnry Franco Prussian figures usually you can pick them up from e-bay
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IIRC Brigade models in the UK does some WW1 Belgians in tyrolean hats, which you might be able to work into bowlers with a file...
As for Pikelhaubes - you've got Foundry, Helion & Baker company for 1866/fpw figures, Parroom station & Ironclad for 1880's-90's, and then the likes of Great war Miniatures, Brigade games & Rengeade if you want WW1 style covered hlemets (oh -an the over the wire figures for some more 'VSFed' types with gas masks & flame throwers).
For quality - Ironclad stuff is usually very good, as is Renegade & I've heard good things about GWM. The foundry figures are fairly standard 'old foundry'. I've got Baker co stuff from other periods and things seem to vary between very good and fair on a pack by pack basis..
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No real reason not to, except that Norway was a territory of the Swedes until the 20th century, so in the period, you'd be looking at Swedish forces or, perhaps, an independence or separatist movement.
-Doc
As any Norwegian would be quick to correct you, Norway was in a union with Sweden, meaning, just like the Dual Monarchy of Austria-Hungary, Sweden and Norway shared the same royal dynasty (Bernadotte, on of Napoleon's marshalls) but had separate parliaments and armies.
You could certainly fly a Norwegian aeronef fleet manned by Norwegian sailors and marines. The only concession you need to do is to fly the '[wiki]Sillsallaten[/wiki]' (Pickled Herring Sallad) which was the nickname of the godawful compromise that was the union flag.
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I have actually been looking strongly at using the uniforms from Hans Majestet Kongens Garde, as they were existing long before the separation - and the figure Lowtardog references is definitely one of them. Anyone doing models with bowler hats?
You guys are recommending Prussians - who does the best ones? I like good clean models, with detail but not drowning in it.
I would suggest to use italian bersaglieri of the Garibaldi era (i.e. victorian era) for the Norwegian Royal Guard. It is supposed that their headress at the time of risorgimento is quite similar to the Norwegian one. They even carry the feathers.
One source I know is Mirliton of Italy:
here is the link:
http://www.mirliton.it/index.php?cName=italian-indip-wars-piedmonteseitalian
unfortunately they do not have a picture in their site, maybe an e-mail might bring some more information:
here is also a link to the wikipedia article about the bersaglieri with some photos.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bersaglieri
For prussians:
Foundry francoprussian war range has an extensive range of prussians in pickelhaube
Ironclad miniatures has a range of prussians and also steam tanks that might be useful
Renegade, GWM and brigade games have their ranges of early WW1 Prussians in pickelhaube
Eureka has VSF prussians also in pickelhaubes, also Danes
Helion has an extensive range of 1866 prussians. Up to this moment they cover infantry with lots of figures and Uhlan/Lancers.
[Have I forgotten anyone else? If so please add! Sorry, for any omossion!]
For an extensive list of VSF goodies with links see the Sticky post here!
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=8146.0
Is the first when you open the VSF ADVENTURES folder in the LAF!
All the above is for 25-28mm miniatures. If you need other scales there is something available also!
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As for swedish uniforms you could use Prussians from Franco-Prussian war but without the pickelhaube (I think you could use it for guardtroops) but put on a kepi. It is similiar to the frenchstyle but a little bit higher.
the figures should be painted in dark blue with brassbuttons.
Otherwise it could be intresting to use the uniform from 1906 that is very similar to the german colonial uniform, but instead of one side of the hat turned up it should be three sides like the tricorn (as a tribute to Charles XII).
The uniform should be painted grey like the germans.
For naval personel, I´m not sure but you could probebly use English ones but painted in darkblue.
There are som intresting monitores at this period who you could as defining the style of swedish flying ships. Hers a link: http://www.papershipwright.co.uk/catalogue_warships.shtml
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Bless me, another fellow Swede! :)
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As for swedish uniforms you could use Prussians from Franco-Prussian war but without the pickelhaube (I think you could use it for guardtroops) but put on a kepi. It is similiar to the frenchstyle but a little bit higher.
I can't recall where I saw the picture, but I'm fairly sure that the Brigade WWI Belgians in shako look pretty close :
http://www.brigademodels.co.uk/NoFrames/GW28/index.html
They don't do a huge range, just infantry, MG, and casualty figures, but they might consider deck fittings etc in future, if you drop them an email they are quite friendly.
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Hmm...the Wurtemburger infantry look fairly close to the few pictures I can find of Norvegian troops of the late 1800's...a light blue uniform with red stripes should be easily done. I like the Belgians from Brigade as well - anyone know if these are a mixable size scalewise?
Also, I found this to use for reference - now it is just a matter of matching up. For non-dress, they seem to use the kepi a lot, but here he has a helmet.
http://marksrussianmilitaryhistory.info/NorwayPhoto/Norway1890.html
This slippery slope of VSF is taking so much of my time...oh well.
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Bless me, another fellow Swede! :)
Yes Hammer, another Swede who lurkes around and who really enjoys this forum.
[I can't recall where I saw the picture, but I'm fairly sure that the Brigade WWI Belgians in shako look pretty close :
http://www.brigademodels.co.uk/NoFrames/GW28/index.html
They don't do a huge range, just infantry, MG, and casualty figures, but they might consider deck fittings etc in future, if you drop them an email they are quite friendly.
[/quote]
The shako looks right for earlier swedish kepis, but i don't know about the overcoat.
Look at this link taken from another thread:
http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/dgtitle_tree.cfm?title_id=614967&level=2&tword=
Here is the 1905 uniform i was talking about:
http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/dgkeysearchdetail.cfm?trg=1&strucID=268005&imageID=437354&parent_id=267342&word=&snum=&s=¬word=&d=&c=&f=&k=0&sScope=&sLevel=&sLabel=&total=30&num=0&imgs=20&pNum=&pos=7
Hm why is strange plans forming in my head? ;D
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The Brigade Belgians are very nice but a little on the large side. If your force is only Brigade then you'll be okay, otherwise I'd recommend forming seperate units by manufacturer.
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How do the Brigade games size up to Foundry Franco-Prussina? I am considering a mix of Jaegers from the Foundry stuff (because they have kepis) and the Line Infamtry from Brigade - anyone know how they would look together?
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Bahhh, you have just given me an idea for a DragonShip design of Aeronef.
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Bahhh, you have just given me an idea for a DragonShip design of Aeronef.
I can think of worse things. lol
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Carrying on with the idea of a VSF Norwegian/Swedish force containing an aeronef, how about completely ignoring historical military units & uniforms and instead going for Scandinavian SKY PIRATES (Sky Vikings?). Several manufacturers now make suitable late 19th or early 20th century merchant seamen that could be combined to make a small force. Try figures from Brigade, Pulp abnd Artizan for a start.
These from Brigade games:
(http://www.brigadegames.com/images/BGGL/BG-VA07_sm.jpg)
(http://www.brigadegames.com/images/BGGL/BG-EEP010_lg.jpg)
(http://www.brigadegames.com/images/BGGL/BG-EEP013_lg.jpg)
Also look at German U-Boat crew and WW1/WW2 Russian sailors wearing winter coats.
Once again, these from Brigade:
(http://www.brigadegames.com/images/BGGL/UBoatcrew_lg.jpg)
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An interesting idea - just a day or so late. I am actually ordering the Belgians from Brigade Models, as their uniform is pretty close, and that was enough for me. I am going for the light blue with red stripe that was standard for the Norwegian uniform in 1900, and go from there. Now, I just have to decide what to use for my flyers to drop from my carrier-nef. I am experimenting now with casting my own wings, using the wings off the birdmen of Cattrazana (sp?) as a base.
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Don't forget to tell Brigade what you're ordering the Belgians for - they have seen the aeronef photos and said they might look at deck mountings for guns etc.
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Don't forget to tell Brigade what you're ordering the Belgians for - they have seen the aeronef photos and said they might look at deck mountings for guns etc.
Are you kidding me? I placed the order a couple days ago - I never said anything because, well, I thought you weren't serious. I guess here in the US I don't really consider it probable that a company would be paying attention like that - I am too jaded by my job as a sales rep in distribution. I guess I'll toss them an email referencing this thread...but I can't find an email address.
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Carrying on with the idea of a VSF Norwegian/Swedish force containing an aeronef, how about completely ignoring historical military units & uniforms and instead going for Scandinavian SKY PIRATES (Sky Vikings?).
That's exactly the same idea I had (and posted on the first page), but you have expressed it more eloqquently. Seeing as Sinewgrab doesn't want to do it... I think I might have a crack! :D The pics were great!
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Carrying on with the idea of a VSF Norwegian/Swedish force containing an aeronef, how about completely ignoring historical military units & uniforms and instead going for Scandinavian SKY PIRATES (Sky Vikings?).
That's exactly the same idea I had (and posted on the first page), but you have expressed it more eloqquently. Seeing as Sinewgrab doesn't want to do it... I think I might have a crack! :D The pics were great!
All yours, Christian. Make us proud! Join the aerial arms race!
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I just received the Belgians from Brigade Models, and I have got to say - I love these guys. Good clean lines, not overly complex or decorated, and still characterful. These guys are going to be a joy to paint. The only thing I might do to change them is greenstuff some fur onto their collars to reflect that they serve on an aeronef, but I am not convinced it is necessary. I really wonder if they would let me buy just the seated figures for the maxims to make into ultralight pilots, but I can't find a freaking email address on the website to use to communicate with. I have got to be missing it somehow.
On another note, I have to say that I have mixed feelings on the Reviresco stuff. The guns are superb - beautiful work, minimal flash, very detailed. The sailors, though, are crap. Horrible flashlines, 'squished' features, and unrealistic proportions. I may just bag these guys as a loss I have to take to get these beautiful guns. Ah well.
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Here's the email address
sales@brigademodels.co.uk
It's on the "Ordering" page.
I may just bag these guys as a loss I have to take to get these beautiful guns.
That's what the rest of us do ;)
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Here's the email address
sales@brigademodels.co.uk
It's on the "Ordering" page.
I may just bag these guys as a loss I have to take to get these beautiful guns.
That's what the rest of us do ;)
You are a gentleman, sir, and a fine judge of a horse's arse.
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Dear Sinewgrab
I think this site with the new danish and schleswig holstein figures is of inyerest to you!
http://www.waterlootomons.com/index.php