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Over the holiday period the issue I have had with my eyes has settled down and as a treat I decided to turn my hand to a simple board for the few 15mm Sci-Fi figures I have and a handful of new Moongrunt figures that where my Christmas present to myself :D
Deciding to spend the minimum possible I had a hunt around and purchased a large sheet of black plastic foam board from Bubblalux - no idea what this is in real life but it does not bend / snap and seems to be waterproof. Main problem is that it is just under 60cm in width (58+) so its not quite a 2x2 board but thats fine for 15mm. Details of the actual board material / use can be found HERE (http://www.craftex.co/bubbalux/)
Main problem was this created a flat surface so I looked at craters (GW/AMERA etc) but decided on a couple of plastic A4 created sheets I found cheap on eBay (Amazon link to the product is HERE (https://www.amazon.com/Plastruct-PS-180-Moon-Crater-Sheet-PLS91695/dp/B0006O6WS4)):
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41MhsQD25aL._SX425_.jpg)
Main problems where:
1) The sheets have a blank border of about 5mm on all sides.
2) The sheets are exactly the same and it shows no matter how you arrange them.
3) The sheets came warped - they where very cheap on eBay and this may explain it!
4) There is very little flat ground for standing figures up.
Putting these aside I went back to the pink foam in the garage to find I only have 25mm thick sheets that would be overkill. Fortunately, I had just come across Lukes Aps on You Tube (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsmD5774MOQhjYBkXqu3Jdw) and seen that he had purchased some 10mm foam used for underfloor heating (video and details HERE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqpRPeHPp9c)) so off to eBay I went.
Two days later a wonderful cardboard package arrived with two sheets of foam in great condition ready for use. Turns out I was very lucky to order two sheets - I ended up using one to help block a broken window due to the gales on Christmas Eve and a loose roof tile from next door!
Finding myself with a little off-cut after patching the window (cut out the draft after using tarp and wood) I cut a few bits up to see how it would stick to the board:
1) Using wood glue / PVA was a waste of time as it was taking ages to dry
2) Using spray glue (picture mount) on the foam did not stick OR melt the foam (see later though)
3) Using spray on the board and leaving for 30 secs worked great and will be the way I do it on-going
Once dry, I used a small hammer to try to create a basic crater shape in the foam:
(http://i.imgur.com/DPpu354.jpg)
Not great - too regular / circular and the small impact areas are too neat...
So finding a flint from the garden I attached another piece with gusto and came up with a look I liked:
(http://i.imgur.com/OW4rN38.jpg)
When getting the board, I picked up three bags of the Javis stone:
(http://i.imgur.com/kPs64ee.jpg)
Trying this out I have to say the result was horrible (so bad you are not getting a picture) :o The flakes do not look like anything other than tarmac and not suitable at all - OK I know each bag was only £1.30 but I've no real use for these other than this board - I'll have to see if I can manufacture a use for them. It's a shame as it looks great in the bag so I have no idea why it does not work on the board other than possible scale...
Obviously, a totally flat surface and even one with the odd crater would look a bit boring so out came the scrap, a few toothpicks and UHU glue and test rocks / mounds started to be built:
(http://i.imgur.com/tuytbyY.jpg)
Slight problem - UHU melts the board - OK deep down I knew this but it was the first glue I found in the drawer...
(http://i.imgur.com/P2qi1cY.jpg)
At least I can say that a quick push with the stone again I had a small crater :D so face saved.
Going back to the plastic craters, I decided to see how they would sit on the board, so after digging a small indent and battering the test board I used Woodland Scenics Flex Paste (http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/Item/C1205/page/1) to stick a cut out crater down and 'hide' the join:
(http://i.imgur.com/TJPxITC.jpg)
I couple of things I found out:
1) It is very hard to indent the board without the marks being in line or symmetrical - two / three stones will help
2) Given I want to paint this, I should have undercoated the plastic crater first!
3) Flex paste sticks well to everything with indents no matter how small - I had no finger prints at one point
4) Hiding the join was a right pain - use the paste in layers and let it dry well between each thin layer
I masked off the board and decided to spray the crater (as I wanted to use acrylics to paint the board) using Halfords grey primer:
(http://i.imgur.com/xLbfLSf.jpg)
I'm happy with this little test board - the crater and rocks size well for the 15mm figs:
(http://i.imgur.com/ZbH3WXX.jpg)
With luck, I'll get a couple of coats of paint on this BUT here I am a bit stuck - what colour is the moon?
Normally in the regular NASA pictures (colour ones not B&W), the moon surface is shown as a grey / black surface with harsh shadows except in this classic Apollo 11 picture (Earth Rising Above the Moon Surface - crop):
(http://www.bruceonshaving.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Earth-Rise.-Apollo-11.jpg)
This had me searching the 'Net to understand why this is brown (my other hobby is photography and my monitor is colour profiled) as others from the same moon shot are grey (NASA have a FLICKR account - 140+ pages of pics so far). This bafflement became worse as even the Jan 2016 Chinese probe colour pictures (review on PetaPixel here (http://petapixel.com/2016/02/01/china-just-released-a-new-set-of-true-color-photos-of-the-moons-surface/)) did not help as they have both grey and brown shots. After a very interesting surf, I tracked down an English translation of an investigation by a Russian Associate Professor (full report HERE (http://www.aulis.com/mooncolour.htm))
After going through this report and trying to work out if it was serious (Aulis seems one of the more 'interesting' sites that populate the web) and hunting a bit more I decided that I cannot tell. NASA have the famous Apollo 17 Orange soil (Transcript here (http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/a17.sta4.html)) but says this was in grey soil - looking at the video the last seconds show a slight brown tinge to the soil at the top of the frame compared to the lower part and a great brown sample from Apollo 15 is HERE (http://history.nasa.gov/EP-177/ch2-2-1.html)!
Other advantage of the grey surface - this is what most people expect to see of a moon surface as that is what we are taught from an early age and to be fair it looks like a lot of the rock is grey / black:
(http://drgarza.sbcisd.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/nasarock.jpg)
Note this pic has colour markers in each shot - you should be able to tell the actual colour from these BUT they are different tones themselves in the shots (possible light / film / age / processing differences) and I cannot be bothered to match them in photoshop now.
For now, I'm going for a basic grey with possibly a brown / purple over wash in areas with the odd bit of orange - unless you know different?
Not sure about gritting the surface - 15mm figures + sand can look a bit odd.
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You have done your homework!!
Very interesting read!
I think the basic grey does make the most sense, just like you say, this is what people would expect to see. So, to keep it instantly recognizable, I'd stick with it.
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I think that test board looks great.
You can use a tube mounting adhesive ("No Nails" or similar brands) to stick foam and plastics together. Apply a blob and spread it out with scrap plastic or card. Dries very tough so try and avoid areas you may want to carve later.
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A brief read of moon´s geological composition says that it´s mainly blackish basalt-like fine grain in the lowlands (mare) and lighter in the highlands (terrae). The darker soil contains magnesium, titanium and iron (therefore the brownish look?) and the highlands have more calcium and aluminum. Only 12% reflection of sunlight (less than tarmac) implies a rather dark surface.
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Interesting stuff and you're 'sample' looks very suitable 8)
cheers
James
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OK - I decided on a grey brown colour with the leaning to grey :)
I mixed sand, small talus and grey paint together and slathered on the foam and plastic crater.
A wash of brown / grey mix went on top followed by a dry brush of light grey
A wash of thin black and a touch up of thicker black in the hollows
The final dry brush was the light grey again.
Final result:
(http://i.imgur.com/CYZ4J5j.jpg)
Depending on the angle of the light - the could changes from grey to brown nicely (OK fluke):
(http://i.imgur.com/FLmfD4E.jpg)
A couple of bits I do not like:
a) The talus was hard to get out of the paint pot - despite using small bits it fell off the brush often.
b) I do not like the sand on the rock mounds - happy with it being at the bottom but not the sides and top
c) Oddly, the plastic crater still remains shiny - I think its due to it being smooth and reflecting more light as the paint is matt... The good news though is that its blended in fine with a slight 'lava' flow effect:
(http://i.imgur.com/yoUPah9.jpg)
From this test my plan for the build sequence becomes:
1 ) Cut out the craters from the plastic sheet making sure they lay flat and have been sprayed grey first
2 ) Glue the foam onto the base
3 ) Glue the craters onto the foam and smooth with flex paste
4 ) Add mounds / hiding places from foam and carve / hack to shape
5 ) Indent / crush foam using flint stones (at least two different ones) - I may try rolled up silver foil as well
6 ) Glue odd bits of talus onto the board (not in craters or on mounds)
7 ) Mix up lots and lots of grey / brown paint
8 ) Paint the mounds with the plain grey / brown paint
9 ) Add sand / small grit to the grey / brown paint and paint the rest of the board (inc craters)
10) Wash and dry brush as the mood takes me
11) Paint edge black
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This looks really great - it's rekindled my moongrunt ideas, very cool.
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A very convincing surface, good job!
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Looks very nifty :)
cheers
James
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Thanks for the complements - looking forward to doing the large board next :)
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That is a very impressive result!
:-* :-*
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Really nice work there! You've nailed it.
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Really nice work there! You've nailed it.
I second that!
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That's great! Superb texture! :-*
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Found time to paint two figures - not easy with the eyes but happy with the result.
(http://i.imgur.com/TiEJq35.jpg)
Spray can white
Dark brown wash
Dry brush white
Blue / black highlights
Metal and red for the gun - over wash in brown again
Bases are 15mm magnets covered in large grain gel from Galeria and sand then painted as per the surface.
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And BEFORE any one says:
1) No they are not cricket pads on the legs of the standing figure (though they do look like it)
2) The background should be black and white of course...
lol ;D lol
Corrected background:
(http://i.imgur.com/6w1Zkah.jpg)
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Well its been a while since I added anything to this but I've sorted out a few pictures while moving house to explain what happened in the end...
First up is the general layout on blue 10mm foam with a plastic backing:
(https://i.imgur.com/z5w3FPV.jpg)
After a fair bit of work with the odd stone or two and lots of Woodland Scenics filler I created:
(https://i.imgur.com/asA9QE2.jpg)
On top of this went glue and sand / small talus all over the place.
Then it was time for painting - a quick grey undercoat, followed by a mix of black and brown paints and washes gave me the look I was after:
(https://i.imgur.com/geBRjc5.jpg)
Now for the lessons I learnt the hard way:
1 - For some reason the paint and washes decided to create solid lines rather than blend together
2 - The join on the hill to the ground needed to be smoother similar to the higher portion of the hill:
(https://i.imgur.com/h0HA069.jpg)
3 - The plastic craters where too smooth and the filler really did not help:
(https://i.imgur.com/n9ETb2p.jpg)
4 - I went totally overboard on the talus - a few minor rocks would suffice:
(https://i.imgur.com/AMd5QYh.jpg)
5 - Despite care and different glues, the plastic board still came off the back of the foam more than once!
Still I give myself a solid 7/10 for a first attempt and when I get settled in the new house I'll resurrect this project (mid 2018 at this rate) and try to use paper mache for the craters.
So from this post - Have a great Christmas and Happy New Year :o
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Nice work,
Have you tried to use expanded foam instead of filler?
I know it has a mind of its own but it can guided & moulded.
It will also stick to practically anything. Look here for examples.
http://castrarunis.blogspot.com.mt/search?q=Terrain (http://castrarunis.blogspot.com.mt/search?q=Terrain)
Z
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Excellent work! I like that a lot! :-*
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Very interesting project. I confess I have a love for stark landscapes like the moon ( and other planets, as well as some Earthly deserts).
A paper mache based clay like Das or Sculptamold would be ideal for making craters and other shallow topography IMO. Used to be able to get bags of the stuff in dry form at the local craft store for cheap. That or maybe sculpt down into the foam with sandpaper instead of building on top.
A brief read of moon´s geological composition says that it´s mainly blackish basalt-like fine grain in the lowlands (mare) and lighter in the highlands (terrae). The darker soil contains magnesium, titanium and iron (therefore the brownish look?) and the highlands have more calcium and aluminum. Only 12% reflection of sunlight (less than tarmac) implies a rather dark surface.
IIRC moon dust has on paper a really low albedo in terms of its mineral composition, but in practice it has almost retroreflector like qualities because it's in the form of tiny long crystals. It's mostly the product of meteorite impacts spraying up molten material, which without any air crystallizes as it resolidifies instead of forming rounded droplets. With no air and no tectonic activity, there's no movement to wear things down either, so they all stay like tiny sharp, glassy crystal shards. Apparently the stuff had a habit of permanently imbedding itself in the fabric of the Apollo suits, as it was mechanically sort of like fiberglass dust with a static charge.
That's why the lunar surface looks middle to light grey in photos, and is so bright and white in the night sky, even though the actual minerals are almost black. I'd speculate it's also why it looks so perfectly monochromatic grey in most photos: much of that grey may be highly granular specular glare rather than regular reflected light. I know the Apollo cameras had removable polarized filters, so that may explain why some photos show more color to the soil (the pics with more color might be ones taken using the filter). This would be supported by the pics with more color also looking much less contrasty, with much fewer white highlights.
No idea how one would simulate that realistically on a tabletop though, so grey paints are probably good enough.
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Nice terrain.
Model railway ballasting techniques might help, ranging from a dry mix of ballast and powder glue (mist with a sprayer) to dry ballast and a water/PVA/washing up liquid mix applied with a dropper.
The former does have the advantage of allowing you to have a gradual change in particle size and to move it around until you are happy with it.
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Thank you for the comments and ideas folks.
@zrunelord
Thanks for the link to your blog - spent a pleasant hour looking at the work you did esp the cardboard and disk heads. The main issue I have with foam (other than it running down the garage roof - but that’s another tale) is getting the sharp edges I’m looking for. I may give it a trial if I get some for the new house.
@connectamabob
I did wonder about using thick foam but decided the mess of carving away 70%+ was not worth the arguments with my wife! DAS looks possible to use as a form and then add paper over it to hide any cracks... it’s been a few years since I used it and have a possibly warped view of it cracking and holding fingerprints. As for colour - an earlier post had some interesting links but the grey / brown sat very nicely with me except for the damn line - more wet blending practise for me.
@Ultravanillasmurf
I’ve never tried powered glue in the mix as I normally use watered down PVA and scenic cement to hold talus. If anything, I need a smaller size and less lumps! I also fancy trying isopropanol alcohol as ad wetting agent as the scenic cement is hard to get locally (80 mike round trip or post) and I am sure I’m down to my last bottle.
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You're welcome Andrew & thanks for the comments.
You reminded me when a friend of mine installed several aluminium
windows at my house & i forgot to put masking tape fences on the back, i spent around 2
hours removing cured foam from the glass. ;D lol . I told you it has a mind of its own!!!!
What if you were to make a Das or plaster master cast it in hot melt rubber or silicone & then
use exp foam to cast ?. When it starts to froth put a peice of card on it & weigh it down with something
Heavy. It will flow in the sharp corners.
Once cured it can easily be carved further with little mess ( well not so much as exp polystyrene :D)
Exp foam is great medium to work with.
Z
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By the way, what is "talus"? I have assumed it is foreign for ballast.
If so, I tend to use Woodland Scenics materials (plus the remains of a half pound bag of "granite" chippings bought for pennies sometime last century). The fine ballast works for texture, the larger stuff for more broken ground. The big bottles will cover a lot of board.
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DAS looks possible to use as a form and then add paper over it to hide any cracks... it’s been a few years since I used it and have a possibly warped view of it cracking and holding fingerprints.
Been a while since I've used it, but IIRC the cracking is not as big a deal as it might seem. It cracks because it shrinks as it dries, but once it's dry, it's stable, so you can just glue it back down and/or patch cracks with more clay and it'll be right as rain. Fingerprints are easy to smooth away by wiping with a wet fingertip while the clay is still wet, or you can stipple it with a stiff short bristled chip brush, and that'll give it an intrinsic dirt-like texture (less need for sand/talus) which will also obliterate fingerprints. With a little practice you can feather the edges without needing paper or anything like that.
One very handy trick IMO is to poke holes through the sculpt at regular intervals with thin wire. This exposes the inside of thick applications to air, allowing it to dry much faster and more evenly (basically changes the surface area to volume dynamic so no part of the inside is more than the hole spacing's distance from air, no matter how thick the application is). If you use really thin wire the holes will be easy to hide in the surface texture, and won't disrupt already sculpted details. Same trick also works with polymer clay to ensure full and even curing on thick sculpt.
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What if you were to make a Das or plaster master cast it in hot melt rubber or silicone & then
use exp foam to cast ?. When it starts to froth put a peice of card on it & weigh it down with something
Heavy. It will flow in the sharp corners.
Once cured it can easily be carved further with little mess ( well not so much as exp polystyrene :D)
Not needed, as with minor practice the Das will work just fine on it's own.
That said, this stuff (https://www.smooth-on.com/product-line/free-form-air/) has been on my "to try" list for a while. Reviews I've read say it's similar to that Crayola Model Magic stuff in weight, but with the strength and toolability of epoxy putty. Have seen no mention anywhere of how it handles sculpting-wise though. It's kinda expensive, but if it can be used to sculpt with, it may be worth it for all kinds of terrain or big creature stuff. Not foam, but the benefits would be similar, and if it can be sculpted, that would cut out the extra work and cost of mold making and casting.
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I think the advantage of DAS will be at the edges where I can smooth it into the board rather than leave the edge the plastic craters gave me despite the Woodland Scenics foam filler.
This would make the assembly sequence a bit different:
a) Stick hills and sand smooth edges
b) Mark out locations of craters
c) Add indentations and small small craters by using a rough garden stone
d) Build craters from DAS
e) Fill any cracks and make sure the joint on the base is smooth
f) Paint with a gritty paint
I need to find out how well DAS stocks to the foam as the blue stuff I use is very smooth (it’s almost melted on the top) but a good sand paper rub first should fix that.
I also need to think about using MDF or something similar underneath the foam to stop it flexing as the plastic sheet bent as I lifted it up and I would not want the DAS to ‘pop’ off one day lol
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I tempted to try
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5NYki-Jicoc/UKa1kjcFKQI/AAAAAAAAASE/VqkRwlSkLUk/s1600/Moonbase.jpg)
for my Moongrunt Bases.
(Being a basecoat of Castellan Green followed by drybrushing with Dawnstone and Administratum Grey)
http://row40k.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/basing-your-miniatures-basics.html?m=1
I mean, there is kind of a greenish ting to some moon photos, and since I want to do the little men Classic Astronaut White it would give a bit of colour to the figs.
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Thank you for the link to all those base types - I’m sure I’ll find use for a few of them!
I would be tempted to add the odd larger rock here and there just to break up the flat surface - maybe even use a fine grit to equate to dust pools :o