Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: Mick_in_Switzerland on February 05, 2017, 05:16:28 PM
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I have been thinking about updating my WW2 painting guides.
Artizan Guides are here
http://www.artizandesigns.com/painting-guides.php (http://www.artizandesigns.com/painting-guides.php)
Crusader Guides are here
http://www.crusaderminiatures.com/painting-guides.php (http://www.crusaderminiatures.com/painting-guides.php)
Some people suggested guides for other scales but as I do mostly 28mm and occasionally 10mm, I do not know what is popular.
In terms of individual buyers, players and painters, which scale is most popular.
I guess that if you include mainstream military modelling 54mm is the most popular based on variety of models available.
With wargaming, I suspect 25-28mm is most popular, closely followed by 15mm FOW.
After that, I have no idea.
Please help me by voting for the scales that you see frequently?
Thanks
Mick
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Thank-you everybody.
This is very useful.
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Since this site leans towards 28mm, did you consider your results will be reflective of LAF and not wargamers in general? (Not sure what your intent is or whether that matters to you.)
Cheers,
bill
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I am wondering whether to include other scales in the painting guides. I have some possibilities to do more comprehensive guides.
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As a user who visits here several times a day and being a 10mm gamer, I find that LAF is massively pre-disposed towards 28mm and so little surprise that the survey will reflect that. But it is also a site that leans more towards collecting and painting rather than playing ad one tends to reinforce the other.
If your guides are only for this forum, time would be best spent working with 28mm, if you are to advertise your guides around the wargaming community in general, then it is probably a harder question to answer.
Pendraken (10mm manufacturer) have a forum that is obviously strong on 10mm, but they have a non-Pendraken product folder that sees its fair share of 28mm, though it is a wargamers forum above all else.
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Yes, I spot of self selecting bias there I think. The overwhelming majority of WW2 stuff at our club (40+ active members) is, in descending order, 15mm, 6mm, 20mm and then 28mm as a few of the guys have started playing BA.
15s have held the top spot since the turn of the century.
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Mick did say to vote for the scales that you see frequently, suggesting that this is not just what you play or collect. As it is we only have 28mm WWII and as we're not in any local clubs that's all we see. I've no idea what the local clubs play here. I do agree that overall one of the smaller sizes (probably 15mm?) is likely the most popular. Perhaps a 28mm and an accompanying 15mm would work well? Personally I've used Mick's guides many times and found them very useful.
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I am exploring two possibilities for some guides to be published in print (nothing concrete yet).
This would mean rewriting them to be more general rather than specific to one manufacturers figures.
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Yes, I spot of self selecting bias there I think.
Hmmm. Not sure. It's true that LAF has always been a temple to 28mm. The 'adventure gaming' approach that was the central idea of LAF when it started 10 years ago, is absolutely rooted in 28mm and still runs strongly through this forum. That said, when I joined, we had barely 100 members - now we have 7,500. An awful lot of 'regular wargamers' playing big battles in various scales and genres are now part of the make-up of the place. Nor do I think the forum is unduly focused on painting and modelling (as opposed to gaming). Regrettably as far as I'm concerned - but that's a different story. We all have different aspects of the hobby that appeal to us more than others.
Anyway, I'd be surprised if LAF these days isn't fairly representative of quite a broad spectrum of the wargaming world. But yes, of course the filling in of surveys is entirely self-selecting. People with an axe to grind tend to vote. People who don't have a strong view, don't bother.
15mm WW2 is clearly a hugely popular genre/scale, but I wonder if its apparent dominance may be skewed somewhat by the huge marketing effort, clout and presence of a couple of big brands, viz. FoW and latterly - though much less so - PSC. The combined impact of these can easily create the impression that 'everybody's playing 15mm WW2'. I agree it's still big - but perhaps not quite a big as we all thought it a few years ago? Maybe the crown has slipped a tiny bit? Wargaming, as we all know, is massively susceptible to fads. Scales, genres and periods come and go. Wax and wane. This year's 'next big thing' is next year's bring and buy fodder.
We're all biased in favour of our particular poison, that's true. I'm currently collecting 1/56 WW2, and I've played 15mm WW2 recently. I don't belong to a club, but I do go to shows. At shows, almost all the WW2 games I see are 28mm. (Yes, obviously shows are more showy, and the larger scales lend themselves to showiness, I appreciate). But in terms of 'scales I see frequently' 28mm and 15mm are the only available answers to me. That's not to say it's representative of what people are playing in their living rooms and wargames clubs the length and breadth of the land, where 1/300 or 1/72 may still very well hold sway. But the question was 'what do you see most?' not 'what do you guess most people are playing?' :)
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I think I voted without bias.
To me, at least here and what I see at the 3 HMGS conventions, 20mm is a "traditional" scale for WW2.I think because of the popularity, abundance and cheapness of airfix kits and the like.Many of the "oldtimers" play in this scale.
15mm became very popular with the introduction of FoW.
28mm is now gaining because of Bolt Action and a few other newer skirmish type games.
I only have 28mm exclusively but those were my 3 votes.
Pete
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I have played in virtually every scale in the past, starting with 6mm (Sicily / Italy sold - later Russia 41 - 45, sold), going up to 10mm (NW Europe 44 - 45 sold), then playing games (not owning a collection) in 15mm, 20mm and 28mm (just about every theatre except the Far East).
Finally (after 30+ years), for what will be my only collection in this period, I settled on 15mm for the Western Desert late 41 early 42. My decision to go 15mm was based on three factors:
1. Needing something small enough to field large formations (brigades +) at 1 stand = platoon.
2. Needing something big enough to paint (I'm a reasonably good painter) for the eye candy factor.
3. Having £1300 to spend at the exact moment that I was offered a 40% discount on FoW products.
I still have a lot of stuff to paint, but I don't regret my choice of scale or sub period - possibly because when it comes to WW2 I've played just about everything.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-JrChDjxtTsw/WJ4Xetjt6dI/AAAAAAAALx8/sLOAueOELZAYpOlCyQXGLS2dnT1QjjXZQCEw/s640/IMG_1150.JPG)
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Well they look great 8)
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Well they look great 8)
Definitely, very impressive. I'd actually really like to game in a smaller scale to field bigger formations and play at a more strategic level but as my 28mm figures are nothing to look at I wonder about my output at a smaller scale.
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Just going to point out here, that interestingly, 105 people have voted as of this morning, and the split is almost exactly the same as it was when 50 people had voted:
40% or so 28mm, 25% for 20mm, 22% for 15mm, a small showing for 1/300, and negligible for 54mm and 10mm.
It's a small sample, and of course it's self-selecting, but statistically, you'd have to say the pattern appears fairly consistent.
I would be surprised if 15mm really only had a 20 - 25% share of the WW2 wargames market. There again, as I said above, I do also think the marketing dominance of FoW for a good few years (running one of the biggest printed wargames magazines, for instance) could have somewhat over-represented the supremacy of 15mm...
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More than anything I'm curious about the three that have so far voted for '54mm or 1/35'. What ruleset is used, and how big is the table? Anyone of those three, or someone that plays in this scale but voted for another scale, willing to comment?
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The question does actually say "Which are the most popular scales for WW2 (number of buyers / painters / players)?"
I suspect that the 54mm vote is people who, like me 30 years ago, came into the wargaming hobby from military modelling.
I started building Airfix and Tamiya kits at about age 10 and then moved into wargaming at about 17 so that I had something to do with my collection.
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Old-time squad skirmish rules (e.g. Featherstone) routinely used 54mm/ 1/35th scale figures and vehicles. You will still see the occasional 'big game' being played at shows, although Western Gunfights do seem far more usual than WWII.
It''s not for me, but if that''s what you play, then it''s a popular scale from your own terms of reference..
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I've opted for 28mm and 20mm as that's what I collect and play with, but it's also what I see at shows in the UK, with a bias towards 28mm possibly because it makes more of a visual impact.
And those painting guides are very useful, thanks :)
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I have some 6mm Germans and Russians, tanks and infantry, bought painted for a song and a dime, couldn't pass them up, rarely use them, yet have enjoyed it.
I have 15mm Germans bought for FoW, never got around to them, and not sure if I ever will.
I have 28mm Germans and Brits for skirmish gaming, yet not my top priority, more because it seems to be the current trend, and not for Bolt Action, but instead Chain of Command or others.
My preference is 20mm and that's how I voted. I've begun collecting these for gaming because it's smaller than 28mm for gaming, yet larger than 15mm for painting. I'd like to see ideas on how to paint these.
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I would like your opinions on painting guides.
So far, I have written guides for painting 28mm. This appears to be the most popular scale for painters.
I can see that variants for 20mm and 15mm would make sense (simplified colour scheme, brighter contrasts)
Is there any point writing painting guides for 10mm or 6mm?
Regards
Mick
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For painting guides, as you have 28mm guide to start with, I would then add 15mm, as this is currently very popular. And it is a good step down from 28mm, which will allow you to emphasis the differences. For those who game in 20mm they can interpolate between the two guides. And for 10mm the painter can scale down the 15mm stuff
Once you get down to 6mm, its kind of a different guide where you are going more impressionistic with camo schemes, and increasing contrast of webbing and the like.
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I would like your opinions on painting guides.
So far, I have written guides for painting 28mm. This appears to be the most popular scale for painters.
I can see that variants for 20mm and 15mm would make sense (simplified colour scheme, brighter contrasts)
Is there any point writing painting guides for 10mm or 6mm?
Regards
Mick
A problem that I have and no doubt others, is that I tackle 10mm as I would a 28mm figure and I know this is the wrong approach for the fast / mass paint that 10mm generally needs, also colours need to be brighter on the smaller stuff and I can never get my inking / shading right. So I would say a generic guide for the smaller scale would be helpful and you may get some hosting by the smaller figure manufacturers in that regard.
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Thank-you both. I will do some experiments with smaller scale figures.
Mick
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Last chance to vote - finished on Sunday
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I'll echo what has been proposed by several here, that 28,20 & 15 mm are almost certainly the most popular scales, with considerable constituencies playing each & as such worth catering to as a priority.
I also love 6mm, but acknowledge that it's often more about armour at that scale - there are a fair few who play at this scale, but I'd have to say that I don't think that a guide would be the priority that the aformentioned scales are.
If once you've finished these you've still got the energy though...
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The percentages have remained almost the same right through the period the poll's been running (well since it reached 50 votes anyway). So - accepting that there is, as suggested, a probable 28mm bias of sorts here on LAF - I think it may still be a fairly reasonable indication of the state of the WW2 wargaming nation.
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What about 3mm? :'(
I'm thinking about doing kursk in 3mm, 15 tanks for 3 pounds is not to be sneezed at...
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Thank-you everybody. This has been very helpful.
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VERY surprising that 15mm and 20mm aren't top. These are the "default scale" for most WWII gaming and have been for 50 years.
Times must be changing.
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Dear Luddite,
I think that 28mm has had a huge boost in the past five years with the increased availability of plastic soldiers and vehicles.
You can almost do 28mm in plastic for the same price as 15mm in metal.
Mick
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Hi Mick,
I'm pretty sure that you could lump 6 - 15mm all in one guide if you are using 'mixes', with a note about lighter final highlight colours being useful for the smaller scales. IMHO (for what it's worth), smaller (micro) scale figures are more generally improved by the quality and shade of basing than figure painting; vehicles, on the other hand, require much clearer shading to bring out the detail - so they 'pop' at a reasonable viewing distance.
Vehicle example (15mm):
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-WaqUo9mYxJI/WLQG0q88YlI/AAAAAAAAL0Q/n6zdY5Zv6JQeFI2HPC50HiKbSBXU3lSEQCEw/s400/IMG_1171.JPG)
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would always be 28mm for me.