Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Dez on 16 February 2017, 09:41:16 PM
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Many questions about Andrew Trollope/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Trollope (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Trollope)
Trollope had a badge Peacock!
Siddons, Michael Powell. Heraldic Badges in England and Wales. Vol. II. Pt. 2. Woodbridge, 2009.
Rather livery Andrew Trollope were as follows:
(https://pp.vk.me/c638023/v638023657/22f57/aXmVVh05Dak.jpg)
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Interesting. Nice find. Did have a retinue per se or is that just what he himself would have worn?
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He wore the most likely way:
(https://pp.vk.me/c638023/v638023657/22fbd/R5YUbB7H2Mc.jpg)
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I've always assumed, perhaps wrongly, they he adopted this coat of arms when he was knighted. Did individual non-noble captains have a coat-of-arms? And I do not know whether when he was knighted he had the ability to raise a contingent and equip them in a livery like this. That there is a livery would make me think so, but he seems like a fairly famous soldier but otherwise fairly obscure in the English nobility system. But I don't really know, so am eager to learn.....
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Well, Trollope not a poor man, and at Towton with all Northumberland commanded the vanguard.
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And I do not understand how people dressed in livery others went to the other side with him at Ludlow?
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aphillathehun: You are wrong, not the knights, squires, also had their own emblems.
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Non-nobles (i.e. gentry families) could have coats of arms. The term 'squire' had fallen out of use in its original meaning and by the Mid-15th Century was beginning to be used to denote the gentry class as a whole (like the écuyers in France and the junkers in Germany) and would eventually result in a proliferation of 'country squires' in following centuries.
When Trollope acquired his coat of arms seems to be questionable, but it may have been when he became a life peer (he was granted the barony of La Ferté Macé). As his arms are not conjoined or labelled, it is fairly safe to say they were granted to him and not inherited from his father (unless his father was dead of course).
I've never encountered anyone not an hereditary peer (knight banneret upwards) who had a right to bear a livery standard and a badge. However it was quite normal for any household to have an informal livery, even if that household consisted of just a few servants (like the Pastons for example). Whether Trollope's livery was in use before his defection, or whether he was granted the badge and right to livery once he became a banneret after 2nd St. Albans is open to question. It's quite ironic that his badge was a peacock, given his bragging about the battle. It was not unheard of for new badges granted to be a play on a name, or perhaps an inside joke.
As an officer under Warwick in Calais, he would have borne his own coat of arms if he had it then, or he and the men who defected with him would have all been wearing Warwick's livery, as he was Captain of Calais. It seems likely that Trollope's men would have been re-outfitted with either Henry VI's livery after changing sides at Ludford (they were Royal troops after all), or Somerset's, whose service Trollope appears to have gone into.
So quite literally Trollope's livery might only have been worn by the guy carrying his banner and his valet, or alternatively after 2nd St. Albans Trollope might have had an entire contingent outfitted like that.
Knowing the original source would be helpful, as claims to 'ancient' arms and badges was rife in the 16th-18th Centuries and it is possible that the livery could have been made up long after Trollope's death. That it is just two colours suggests to me that it is probably a genuine 15th Century one though.
Well that's my view for what it's worth. It is a quite striking livery though regardless. :)
£350 for the four book set... gosh. :o
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So what is the discrepancy? you agree to everything, I guess.
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Possibly, there is too little evidence for me to decide. For other people it may be different.
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He met his end at the battle of Towton (29 March 1461), sharing command of the Lancastrian vanguard with the earl of Northumberland. He had been awarded a life grant of the barony of La Ferté Macé in May 1447.
I've never encountered anyone not an hereditary peer (knight banneret upwards) who had a right to bear a livery standard: Esquire William Glasdale IMHO standard was relaxed in 1428.