Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Conflicts that came in from the Cold => Topic started by: M4A3E8 on 02 March 2017, 08:58:53 PM
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Hey all, I am starting a modern project: Russians vs. US. I envision the Ukrainian conflict turning into a larger scale engagement between the two. As the first part of the project I am assembling a platoon of Russian and US forces. I have started with the Russians and have a couple of questions I was hoping someone could give me some guidance on. I am trying to put together a Russian squad and have come up with the following organization:
Squad Leader
Driver
Gunner
Section Leader
PK Gunner
Grenadier
Section Leader
RPK Gunner
Grenadier
I extensively searched the internet for Russian Squad composition but did not find a lot that would explain the organization of a “Current” Russian Squad. Does anyone know if my Organization is close or am I way off? Thanks for the help.
(http://i.imgur.com/ix3FiVu.jpg)
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I don't recognize that APC, is it one of the T-14 variants?
Also here are links to two groups working on modern versions to bolt action rule sets.
http://www.warlordgames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=21978&hilit=modern&start=70
http://jayswargamingmadness.blogspot.com/2016/06/bolt-action-modern-version-20-rules.html
And I believe osprey just released a book on modern Russian forces. I have yet to see it. But from what I have read what you have there is pretty current. at least its how I am making more forces. I got 3 BMP3s, 3 btr-3s, an hind and some softskins. Need a t-72 or a t-90 I am thinking.
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That's about what I've been able to find as well. The driver and gunner would stay mounted most of the time and use the APC as a mobile fire base, often as a flanking element in open terrain. I would not be surprised if they dismount more often than the tactics dictate, especially in combat in urban areas or modern militaries. A fight against an American unit is likely going to have a lot of powerful anti armor rather than RPG-7's and the like.
I'm not sure if they would be split into two groups though, and they would likely have an RPK and RPG-26 rather than 2 PKM's. At least, that is the info that I've been able to find.
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Nah, if you dismount are leaving the most casualty producing element in the team. Even when I was in Iraq and Afghanistan the driver and gunner stayed in the vehicle.
And only dismount if the track gets disabled. Beside, you need some one in to make sure that no one else drives off with it.
So for my tanker buddies. "Death before dismount and all that". lol
from what I have read the PKMs are kind of optional, but why wouldn't you take one if you had the option? That's a lot of lead going down range mixed in with the RPK.
The breaking up of the squads into 2 teams is pretty standard. In a perfect world, one lays down fire to help kill/suppress the opposition. The other team is there to maneuver/flank/ assault and prevent the base of fire element from being flanked. They have NCOs now, along with contracted solders. The Russian army is becoming a professional army with some thing like only 20% now being conscripts, meaning training standards are going up.
I think a few dudes interested in Modern Russian kit are on this https://www.facebook.com/groups/628206883900507/ page. I am sure they might be able to answer better then I.
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And I learned something today
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I hope all i said is correct. lol
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Thanks for all the help! Looks like I am close.
The APC is the new Russian Kurganets-25.
Thanks again.
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Thanks for all the help! Looks like I am close.
The APC is the new Russian Kurganets-25.
Thanks again.
Cool, so where did you get it from...If I may ask? :D
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I think you'll find the Russians have binned or at least are in the process of binning the RPK. It's supposed to be replaced with the Pecheneg version of the PKM essentially a fixed barrel, squad version.
Of course the Russians being the Russians there are no doubt gazillions of RPKs still floating about but less likely in units issued brand spanking new kit like the Empress ones or brand new battle taxis.
The Yahoo Groups TO&E group has extensive discussion and files on contemporary Russian forces IIRC.
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The Osprey book does not appear to have squad level information. It does say the PKP Pecheneg GPMG has largely replaced the PKM and RPK.
The T15 carries nine infantry, if that helps.there is little information on the Kurganets.
Wikipedia says that the T14 has three vehicle crew as well.
Wikipedia also says the lighter Kurganets has three crew, though the article reads like a sales brochure.
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I think you'll find the Russians have binned or at least are in the process of binning the RPK. It's supposed to be replaced with the Pecheneg version of the PKM essentially a fixed barrel, squad version.
Of course the Russians being the Russians there are no doubt gazillions of RPKs still floating about but less likely in units issued brand spanking new kit like the Empress ones or brand new battle taxis.
The Yahoo Groups TO&E group has extensive discussion and files on contemporary Russian forces IIRC.
And that is why mine are not Russians but, troops from the "Peoples Republic of Redforeia" and Opforian nationalist troops, located next to the "Republic of Pineland" and "The Constructional Grand Duchy of Zubrawka". Who all have to keep on eye on the "Peoples nation for Peace Esperanto". Or from the Trigonist nation. :D
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And that is why mine are not Russians but, troops from the "Peoples Republic of Redforeia" and Opforian nationalist troops, located next to the "Republic of Pineland" and "The Constructional Grand Duchy of Zubrawka". Who all have to keep on eye on the "Peoples nation for Peace Esperanto". Or from the Trigonist nation. :D
I currently live just north of Pineland.
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0699/6761/products/patches-people-s-republic-of-pineland-prp-od-patch-1_grande.jpg?v=1450996242)
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The Russian military, much like other large militaries is undergoing a lot of upgrades lately - however - due to the size of the armed forces, they will see scattered use at best, with rear-echelon units, etc. continuing to operate old materials and equipment for another 10-15-20 years if needed. The US is very much the same way. You should see some of the guard units and their equipment (still rockin' M113s in some places...and not upgraded ones!).
It's safe to say that whatever you want to field can be fielded. Add to that the reality of combat conditions, supply issues, battlefield pick-ups etc. and it's safe to say that a few months into any large/long conflict you'll see some bizarre gear/equipment being fielded by normal forces. I think you can find a good excuse to field a majority of the stuff you want - just keep the force structure reasonable (i.e. no rifleman squads with 7 PKMs running around...).
Re: the armored vehicle
The "Armata" platform and its Boomerang/Kurganets siblings are still in flux right now. They were revealed maybe 2 years ago at the big Moscow parade and have since been mostly re-designed (the ones parading were mock-ups at best). The idea is to replace the existing common families of armored vehicles (T-72, BMP, BTR etc.)
The "Kurganets" is replacing the BMP. You'll note in the picture below (the parade-era vehicles) that the driver is sitting way in the back - this is because they had engines shoe-horned from other vehicles, and the driver has since been moved to the forward/left position was intended. Pictures surfaced recently a recovery vehicle based on this chassis also.
(http://defense-update.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/kurganets_25_btr.jpg)
The "Boomerang" is intended to replace the BTR line of wheeled vehicles. It's changed a lot since this picture as well.
(https://www.shephardmedia.com/media/images/article/a095660b.jpg)
The Armata tank chassis features a unique three-abreast seating with nobody present in the turret. It's also the basis for a larger/heavier troop transport --- they turn the vehicle around (placing the engine up front, ala Merkava) and troops in the rear. I don't know the name for this one, but it doesn't feature the main gun like the tank obviously.
Following this you'll see every armored vehicle based on one of these three or four chassis ideas (mobile air defence, engineer vehicles, recovery vehicles, command and control, ambulance, bridge-laying, etc.) eventually. The project is ambitious (like their aviation goals) but could happen - they're under a budget crunch at the moment.
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Wikipedia article on T15.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-15_Armata (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-15_Armata)
Add your own salt...
Interesting bit above, did they use an FV432 as the basis? ^__^
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A fight against an American unit is likely going to have a lot of powerful anti armor rather than RPG-7's and the like.
I can't recall the source but I believe that the RPG-7 (or variant thereof) can be equipped with the equivalent of an RPG-29 warhead. There are, of course, lots of powerful disposable AT weapons available too.
There is a good compilation of open-source info on weapon systems collected together in the World Wide Equipment Guide books from the US Army TRADOC available to download: https://www.scribd.com/doc/304960189/Worldwide-Equipment-Guide-2014-FINAL-Vol-1-Ground-Systems
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Hey all,
I 3d printed the vehicle. There is a little more to the story. Another poster (sotek486) had a 3D Print of a LAV III done for his Canadian Project. After seeing that I was inspired! I want the most modern Russians to go against the most modern US. To accomplish this I need models to represent the latest in Russian Vehicles. I contacted sotek486 and asked who he used to create the 3D Model. He graciously introduced me to his model designer and I commissioned him to create a Kurgurant-25 for 3D printing. He did an exceptional job and within a week I had want a wanted! I next went to Shapeways to have it printed but ran into 3 weeks of trouble trying to get it printed. Finally, I decided to purchase a 3d Printer and have a go at it myself. Success! It took a while to learn and make a good print. The journey was very educational and totally worth it. I will warn people who want to do the same that it is an expensive endeavor. I will be doing more vehicles in the future (thinking about doing the Bumerang next). I have both turrets for the Kurganets-25 and have been really pleased with the results. I did find that painting 3d Vehicles are a little different to paint than regular models because of their “layered” texture.
I plan on using the APC version to outfit 3 Squads and the IFV version to be the Platoon HQ.
Kurganets-25 IFV
(http://i.imgur.com/zcgeHFC.jpg)
Kurganets-25 APC
(http://i.imgur.com/JeohRC3.jpg)
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Very nice.
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And if you tire of it as a model you could use it to grate parmesan. :)
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Are you planning to do any Tigrs or Typhoons etc?
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I would love to do the KAMAZ-63968 Typhoon-K MRAP next. It would be a great vehicle for all kinds of scenarios.
My problem is that I need to find dimensions for the vehicle before I can get the artist to create it. Anyone know a source for the dimensions for this vehicle?
Thanks
(http://i.imgur.com/aiN4Ilz.jpg)
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While it's 3D, the guys at Bohemia Interactive have a not-Typhoon in their game, ARMA 3. I could pose some soldiers near it and you could take a look if you wish.
Decent picture of the driver here:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f0/KamAZ-63968_Typhoon_-_Engineering_technologies_2012_(4).jpg)
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Any chance you'd be willing to print out another copy of the Russian ATV in 28mm at a price? Would let you recoup some of your investment... ;)
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Bolt Action Modern rules v3.1 and army lists here: http://jayswargamingmadness.blogspot.com/2017/03/bolt-action-modern-army-lists-v31.html (http://jayswargamingmadness.blogspot.com/2017/03/bolt-action-modern-army-lists-v31.html)
These take into account the changes in BA WW2 v2.0.
Jay
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Finally, I decided to purchase a 3d Printer
Wow, youre commited. Which one did you buy (because working on small scale like this need great layer precision) ?
Cheers
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I got the Prusa i3 MK2S 3D printer. Works great. Not a high end printer at all yet it does an amazing job! At least I think so. I will post several other vehicles I have done over the weekend.
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I got the Prusa i3 MK2S 3D printer.
Thanks. I backed a TIKO (FDM) and it seems to me it's not going to end well (another failing Kickstarter). Did you have any knowledge about 3d modelling/3d printing before buying one (I mean : is the Prusa i3 any good to start enjoying 3D printing and miniature related creation) ? I'm wondering if SLA printer isn't a better choice (higher cost for higher precision and smoother surfaces) for 28mm or 1/56 scales.
Cheers
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I had no experience at all with 3D anything! I just did little research and jumped in. My advice is to pick a less expensive 3D Printer to learn with. There is a lot to learn. The technology is still very touchy. You have to mess with a lot of settings to get everything to work just right. Once you get the hang of things you will be much better informed to figure out your next printer to buy.