Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: Elbows on March 29, 2017, 03:36:38 PM
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Seeing these pop up all over the place. Any word? From what I see...
$3.99...for 1-3 figures, pre-primed with Vallejo --- look to be Bones-ish?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K51N079Ws6o
PS: Appears to be two separate lines. Nolzur's for D&D minis and "Deep Cuts" from Paizo for the Pathfinder versions.
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They do look nice and a good price too.I had seen some on Wayland games and also spotted a couple of packs at a show last weekend.The detail on them looks really good.
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I'm intrigued and may try to pick up a couple. I like Bones on larger creatures but find the smaller infantry-scale figures are far too soft to warrant any real attention. These appear to be a nice alternative if they hold paint better. Detail looks pretty good and they have a nice starting range. If anyone has more hands on experiences, please post up. I also like the flatter disc-like bases (much in keeping with the Renedra bases I currently use).
Like I said, I would like to see more larger creatures.
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When i first saw these on Wayland agmes site i thought that the round bases would be attached.Good to see they are not for anyone who has other basing preferances.
The Barbarian types look like nice miniatures and would fit in with Frostgrave and even Game of Thrones too.
£3.20 per pack from Wayland but they are waiting on stock to arrive.
The material does look to be better than the Bones stuff.
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I've seen a few videos, but not a side-by-side comparison.
Videos showed mold lines and these miniatures are pre-assembled. :(
While going after the same demographic as Bones, I think gamers will buy from both lines. If you want a dwarf with an axe and chainmail, you're going to buy it from whichever product line has the miniature. WK only has a few models right now. Can't wait to see their terrain though!
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Elbows,
At $4.99 plus for a Reaper figure in metal (a single figure) I found myself priced out of the larger figures for battle gaming (hence my move to 3mm/6mm/15mm/18mm armies.) 😱
For warbands and small skirmishes I would use my Legacy 1970s figures (25mm Ral Partha, Der Kriegspieler and some Grenadier) rather than pay those prices per figure. Not to mention no one can really say an elf or dwarf (my usual) or a Goblin is too short compared to today's humans for FRPGs.
TBH Bones figures work just fine for FRPG figures since it is about the story, not the museum piece for those.
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I have no problem paying $5-8 for a single metal figure, but it better be darn nice. lol But $3.66 (the common discounted price I'm seeing online) for a large troll? Sounds good to me. Same reason I like the Bones monsters. They're exceptionally reasonable price-wise compared to any monsters in metal or resin, etc. I also recycle pre-painted plastic minis. For large hordes of baddies I use the best priced plastics I can find (so a box of goblins or orcs, etc.).
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Hmm ... The price is certainly good, but I'm not too keen on the aesthetics. If those are D&D orcs, how many hit dice are they supposed to have? :o
Also, the gnolls look markedly inferior to the Frostgrave ones (especially the second figure with the two axes). I quite like the kobolds, though, as small lizardmen, and the bugbears look OK - indeed, the second one's quite nice. The spiders are great, and the griffin looks a bargain. And the undead look good.
The troll seems a bit of a missed opportunity: nowhere near as scary-looking as the Otherworld or Citadel AD&D trolls (as Elbows says, though, the price is terrific).
And what's with all the double-bitted axes? Almost every axe in the range seems to have two blades. Given that precious few real battle-axes did, they don't really ring true.* With the human figures being quite realistically proportioned, it seems an odd choice to go with all that chunky armour and outlandish weaponry.
*This is my longstanding grumble with many fantasy miniature designs: more time in museums, please! ;)
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The "Deep Cuts" line has some great looking demon hounds...a neat Unicorn (ya know, for what you need one). I'd like to see the Griffon painted up. My hope is that this line expands a lot...if it's indeed good.
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I bought one, a giant spider, and it is damn good. The detail is excellent, absolutely minimal lines to scrape off, and it came pre-primered. Very happy.
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Interesting. Hopefully our local store will stock some so we can grab a pack or two to experiment with.
-Michael
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Thanks, Lead. Let us know if you do any more!
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I've been tempted to get a bunch of those from Wayland games when they do free overseas shipping. The spider is definitely at the top of my list.
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I just ordered some should get them soon. From what I have seen in some unboxing videos they look to be smaller than a Reaper type figure. they also seem to be the same person (like a 2 stage character) which I like I wish some company would do some 3 stage characters again I always thought that was a cool concept.
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I just ordered some should get them soon. From what I have seen in some unboxing videos they look to be smaller than a Reaper type figure. they also seem to be the same person (like a 2 stage character) which I like I wish some company would do some 3 stage characters again I always thought that was a cool concept.
Can't find the video but Dr Faust did a look at a few of them.
The 2 packs aren't the same person, but different sculpts that fit the same character class with different archetypes. The female Paladin had one sword & board and one with what looks like a great sword...
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I think I'll be getting a bunch of those. If not for me, for my kids to practice painting on. The detail looks excellent for what it is on the video.
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Can't find the video but Dr Faust did a look at a few of them.
The 2 packs aren't the same person, but different sculpts that fit the same character class with different archetypes. The female Paladin had one sword & board and one with what looks like a great sword...
Like the video in the first post? lol
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I will wait to see what they look like in the flesh... plastic.
Nothing in the video wowed me. Maybe something to fill a niche for my FRPG friends...
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I just ordered some should get them soon. From what I have seen in some unboxing videos they look to be smaller than a Reaper type figure. they also seem to be the same person (like a 2 stage character) which I like I wish some company would do some 3 stage characters again I always thought that was a cool concept.
You are correct!
"Hero Packs will contain both a low-level and high-level sculpt of the same featured character." : http://wizkids.com/2016/03/16/wizkids-unveils-new-unpainted-miniatures-line-for-late-2016/
Of course, you don't have to paint them that way. Maybe, for Frostgrave, you could use the low-level wizard as the apprentice and high-level one as the wizard. Also, not all the hero sculpts look dramatically different between the high and low level. Some of the mini's have a melee pose and a ranged weapon pose. I think that would have also worked as a selling strategy, since, in roleplaying games, melee and ranged have different effects on play. http://wizkids.com/dnd-unpainted/
The videos are just advertising. The mini's will be sold retail, so you can definitely see for yourself! I'll still be funding the Bones IV KS, since I'm more interested in a library of mini's, and am not looking for a specific one. If WK ran a "bucket-o-mini's" KS for their unpainted mini's, I'd definitely be throwing money at it!
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Just ordered a batch from Miniature Market for gaming with grandsons 1 and 2. (Cheap, plastic, cool looking, what's not to like?) I'll take photos when they arrive.
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You are correct!
"Hero Packs will contain both a low-level and high-level sculpt of the same featured character." : http://wizkids.com/2016/03/16/wizkids-unveils-new-unpainted-miniatures-line-for-late-2016/
Of course, you don't have to paint them that way. Maybe, for Frostgrave, you could use the low-level wizard as the apprentice and high-level one as the wizard. Also, not all the hero sculpts look dramatically different between the high and low level. Some of the mini's have a melee pose and a ranged weapon pose. I think that would have also worked as a selling strategy, since, in roleplaying games, melee and ranged have different effects on play. http://wizkids.com/dnd-unpainted/
The videos are just advertising. The mini's will be sold retail, so you can definitely see for yourself! I'll still be funding the Bones IV KS, since I'm more interested in a library of mini's, and am not looking for a specific one. If WK ran a "bucket-o-mini's" KS for their unpainted mini's, I'd definitely be throwing money at it!
If Bones IV has something I want then I am in though I am highly irritated that I have not received, still, my Bones III figures. I want my Mouslings!
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*steps up on soapbox* :P
These seem to follow the trend of shortsighted and unambitious product management of new miniatures lines. I am so disappointed in Reaper for the Bones Product management. They had an opportunity to usher in a sea change. It takes pennies to produce a Bones figure, which we know from the fact that animals, larger and made with a higher quality, firmer PVC, and painted, cost something like 50 cents each from a party supply store. Product management is about collaborating with your customers, really understanding their needs and how they operate. A game master doesn't need 2 or 3 orcs. Having 2 or 3 orc miniatures is literally less useful than having zero orc miniatures. If you are a product manager with half a brain you sell a party of orcs, at least 8. And all of them are different. And all of them are the same style. You don't sell 5 kobolds. You sell 20 kobolds. And with PVC you can sell them at a price that will light up the face of the game master and it's a no-brainer for them. Instead Reaper, in an act of concentrated idiocy, didn't look above the horizon of the model of selling miniatures one at a time, and instead of a revolution, they replaced a good but too expensive option with a poor quality and only marginally cheaper option, and then like jerks slowly raised the prices on the single figures over the past few years so that now a crappy bones figure costs what a metal reaper figure cost 12 years ago. And the waste with the Bones figures, selling them individually.
With these new lines you have the same lack of vision. Let's take Bones, and make two improvements so we have a slight edge in the market. The same sea change opportunity lay with Wizkids, Paizo and Hasbro, and the failed the roll just like Reaper. Instead of 1 figure for $4, we give you two. Instead of the crappy, super soft Bones material, you get the higher quality Wizkids material. Fine. It's fine for the larger monsters, but not awesome, only fine. For things like Orcs, it's the same concentrated stupidity. For the heroes, what a waste of material. If you want to sell them for $2 put them in a little bag as their only packaging and have a singles box of a hundred of them that can sit next to the register. But then also give an option where you can buy this whole wave of heroes, 1 of each sculpt, for $1 a fig in a pretty collector box. You please the impulse buyer, the kid just wanting a mini for her character, the GM, and the collector. They way they did it no one is happy and the earth is especially sad. :(
Completely aside from the above, these designs don't do much for me. I don't like the style and don't think all the busy crap in the clothing is suited to miniatures very well. They are what they are, slapdash 3D figures designed scale-independent and not designed for the size object they will become. And devoid of artistic flair. A few years back Wizkids seemed to hit a high water mark and there were two or three figures from each set that I was compelled to pick up. The owlbear named "Beaky" is a great figure. The female stone giant, great figure. There was an awesome iron golem. A year later there was a very cool D&D owlbear to rival Beaky. But the past few years, I get excited about a new set only to be completely let down after looking over the collection.
Since my D&D collection is 25mm, I am mostly interested in the larger monsters, where the product management failings are least felt. I might get the troll to convert into a stone giant. But the large monsters on the whole are very bad. It's odd, the larger the figure, the more overmuscled they are. The overmuscled look is really distasteful to me, and I think is dated even now. They are not going to age well. Look at a tiger. You don't see corded muscles like that. "It's fantasy" so fine, you like corded muscles you get them. But know people like me see your miniatures and don't think the muscles make the figures look "cool" or intimidating, they make them look like greased up muscle pageant show stooges. lol
And did I say how dissappointed I am that they aren't selling 8 bugbears in a go, 12 goblins, 20 kobolds? When I was a kid, I loved star wars miniatures more than anything. I bought the figures one at a time. I was a good consumer and bought what was offered. I got a stormtrooper, and went on an bought the next figure. When I went to play, I wasn't smart enough to realize that what I needed to have a great time was ten stormtroopers. If they had sold ten storm troopers in a box for $2 a figure instead of 1 figure for $3, I would have bought the set, like a good consumer. Kenner would have earned more money, and I would have more fun playing. Consumers can't articulate what they need and can't tell you ahead of time what they would or wouldn't buy when it's before them on the shelf. A good product manager gets to know them, understands their needs better than they do, and delights them. When the kid sees the 10 storm trooper box there is a little spark in his imagination. Aha! That is what I need and I didn't even know it! That will unlock the fun!
*steps down from soapbox* :P
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We got these in at work the other day.
The range is fairly extensive and the quality on the whole seems to average out at a solid "okay".
They are what they are, cheap gaming peices.
The detail suffers on some of the smaller sculpts and i'd advise picking them by hand to ensure you didn't get one that was primed a little too vigorously.
They really shine when it comes to the larger models like the gryphon, troll and gnolls.
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We got these in at work the other day.
The range is fairly extensive and the quality on the whole seems to average out at a solid "okay".
They are what they are, cheap gaming peices.
The detail suffers on some of the smaller sculpts and i'd advise picking them by hand to ensure you didn't get one that was primed a little too vigorously.
They really shine when it comes to the larger models like the gryphon, troll and gnolls.
Sad, I was hoping for better.
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Sad, I was hoping for better.
I think for £3.50 for 2 figures or a large monster you can't really go wrong if you need something functional, and before I'd even got them on the shelves i had lost some to eager customers.
For me they fill an oddly overlooked gap which is generic rpg minis that aren't multi part of metal.A non modeller can just chuck these in a bag, paint them with some paint pens maybe, and they're good to go for under £10.
Display models they are not, but they aren't trying to be.
Think of them sort of like primed heroclix figures.
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I think for £3.50 for 2 figures or a large monster you can't really go wrong if you need something functional, and before I'd even got them on the shelves i had lost some to eager customers.
For me they fill an oddly overlooked gap which is generic rpg minis that aren't multi part of metal.A non modeller can just chuck these in a bag, paint them with some paint pens maybe, and they're good to go for under £10.
Display models they are not, but they aren't trying to be.
Think of them sort of like primed heroclix figures.
Point taken but maybe I was looking for something slightly "Holy Grail" unconsciously.
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@Spooktalker:
Give this man a medal. You perfectly sum up how I feel about a lot of the bigger players. In this case Reaper and WK, to some extent FFG, GW and Dust and even with the 1/72 modelling companies it's the same tragedy. Their horizon reaches just to the next streetcorner from their factory. (As we would say in Germany.)
So much wasted potential...
It's a shame.
Didn't want to sound all negative. There are a lot of positives examples too. But the really good ideas come imo from smaller companies, but sadly it's not unusual that their ressources can't keep pace with their ambition.
Guess that's the price of success.
But btt
Nevertheless I will give them a chance and use some stuff for Frostgrave (a very positive example imo).
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Point taken but maybe I was looking for something slightly "Holy Grail" unconsciously.
Well if I was a kid again and there were minis like this I would think them the holy grail.
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Well if I was a kid again and there were minis like this I would think them the holy grail.
As a student who wants to play SoBaH and doesn't wanna risk chipping my home set of champions of chaos, These are great because i can actually afford to engage in my hobby and better yet, Get others involved.
With staff discount these cost me £2. That means my hobby budget stretches even further and instead of one GW blister and a drink i can afford 1 gw blister and a selection of monsters and heroes from the D&D line. One mini becomes 5 and I can get my course mates to play games with me without worrying about someone in the sudio knocking the table over and sending my armies into a foundry.
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My package arrived today. I'd say they're on the same level as the Blood Rage figs, detail-wise. They're crisper and more rigid than the Bones stuff I have for bulk SOBH baddies. I'll take pix tomorrow.
Not a ton of variety but certainly a fine, inexpensive way to build up figs for an RPG campaign or off-the-shelf SOBH dungeon delvers.
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I enjoyed that rant, Spooktalker!
Completely aside from the above, these designs don't do much for me. I don't like the style and don't think all the busy crap in the clothing is suited to miniatures very well. They are what they are, slapdash 3D figures designed scale-independent and not designed for the size object they will become. And devoid of artistic flair.
I agree entirely with this. And that "size object"/"scale independence" point is very important. It explains why a Minifigs or Nick Lund or Grenadier miniature from the 70s or 80s often looks much better on the table than a more technically sophisticated contemporary miniature. As an example, there are a load of fairly crude Nick Lund Chronicle miniatures that look far superior on the tabletop to (say) the Descent adventurers. And it's why the Perry twins' "heroic scale" from the 80s works so well.
Since my D&D collection is 25mm, I am mostly interested in the larger monsters, where the product management failings are least felt. I might get the troll to convert into a stone giant. But the large monsters on the whole are very bad. It's odd, the larger the figure, the more overmuscled they are. The overmuscled look is really distasteful to me, and I think is dated even now. They are not going to age well. Look at a tiger. You don't see corded muscles like that. "It's fantasy" so fine, you like corded muscles you get them. But know people like me see your miniatures and don't think the muscles make the figures look "cool" or intimidating, they make them look like greased up muscle pageant show stooges.
Exactly. I don't really know what lies behind the current trend for every miniature - from a goblin to a giant - being bizarrely over muscled and 'cut'. What's wrong with pot-bellied, gangling, wiry-limbed orcs (e.g the C15 range), for example?
As a student who wants to play SoBaH and doesn't wanna risk chipping my home set of champions of chaos, These are great because i can actually afford to engage in my hobby and better yet, Get others involved.
With staff discount these cost me £2. That means my hobby budget stretches even further and instead of one GW blister and a drink i can afford 1 gw blister and a selection of monsters and heroes from the D&D line. One mini becomes 5 and I can get my course mates to play games with me without worrying about someone in the sudio knocking the table over and sending my armies into a foundry.
At the same time, I agree with this. On the rare occasions I go to a gaming shop, I almost always find it a disappointing experience when compared towiththe haunts of my misspent youth. And the main reason for this is that it's hard to do what I would do as a kid: buy a few odd miniatures to assemble a modest warband. My very first miniature purchase (when I was at primary school) consisted of an orc, a night goblin and a fighter, at about 40p each. I bought them for less than the price of a single Star Wars figure, for which I had originally gone to the shop.
It's very hard for kids to do that now. There are no pocket-money purchases to be had at a GW store (unless you're a sailor-suited Viz character), and independent stores are similarly light on individual miniatures. But the Reaper Bones and Wizkids stuff does lean in the right direction.
One trick that I think Reaper and Wizkids are missing is the "endless variants" model that Citadel employed with their Fantasy Tribes stuff. If you look at the old Citadel orcs, (http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/Orcs_-_FTO_Fantasy_Tribe_(solid_base)) for example, a huge amount of variety was achieved with head and weapon swaps. Given that a lot of Bones miniatures are already assembled from several parts, a similar approach could work really well - perhaps good, old-fashioned random-variant packs.
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I like them.
Maybe it's the nostalgia speaking, but they take me back to the days of the Ral Partha AD&D 2e dark blue blisters which contained a male and a female incarnation of a character.
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I read Spook's rant...and all I could think was:
"Or they could do less effort and make the same money".
:D
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Given that a lot of Bones miniatures are already assembled from several parts, a similar approach could work really well - perhaps good, old-fashioned random-variant packs.
That would be quite interesting. Also, the 2 pounds a model grab-bag idea, shouldn't take display space, only an old-fashioned 20kgs laundry-powder cardbox bin next to the counter and grab 'em :D.
I'll check these Wizkid thingies out when they hit the shelves, but probably will only buy a few larger monsters, as the Bones etc. material don't translate too well in 28/32mm mansized models.
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I enjoyed that rant, Spooktalker!
I enjoyed it less, because it read like a rant ;)
Still, Spooktalker, you bring up interesting points about which route of selling miniatures is interesting for gamers; Its pretty clear companies do not think along the same lines. i would really be nice to learn how they come up with the way they release the miniatures and why. Not that GW is doing better... first hyping a game, then staing one day before the pre-order that it is a limited release and then selling out in no time... talk about misjudging the market (or strange marketing ploys...)
I agree entirely with this. And that "size object"/"scale independence" point is very important. It explains why a Minifigs or Nick Lund or Grenadier miniature from the 70s or 80s often looks much better on the table than a more technically sophisticated contemporary miniature. As an example, there are a load of fairly crude Nick Lund Chronicle miniatures that look far superior on the tabletop to (say) the Descent adventurers. And it's why the Perry twins' "heroic scale" from the 80s works so well.
I disagree entirly. I know that that is your opinion and that you like to mention it as often as possible, but it is just an opinion, not a fact. I think the term we used for someting like that was Grnognardism ;) , though I think it is probably just nostaglia. There is something to be said for all different types of sculpting, from clean masterpieces to cartoonisque lumps of metal. I really love both types, but what I think looks best, mainly depends on the setting that I am playing.
Exactly. I don't really know what lies behind the current trend for every miniature - from a goblin to a giant - being bizarrely over muscled and 'cut'. What's wrong with pot-bellied, gangling, wiry-limbed orcs (e.g the C15 range), for example?
Agree!
At the same time, I agree with this. On the rare occasions I go to a gaming shop, I almost always find it a disappointing experience when compared towiththe haunts of my misspent youth. And the main reason for this is that it's hard to do what I would do as a kid: buy a few odd miniatures to assemble a modest warband. My very first miniature purchase (when I was at primary school) consisted of an orc, a night goblin and a fighter, at about 40p each. I bought them for less than the price of a single Star Wars figure, for which I had originally gone to the shop.
It's very hard for kids to do that now. There are no pocket-money purchases to be had at a GW store (unless you're a sailor-suited Viz character), and independent stores are similarly light on individual miniatures. But the Reaper Bones and Wizkids stuff does lean in the right direction.
One trick that I think Reaper and Wizkids are missing is the "endless variants" model that Citadel employed with their Fantasy Tribes stuff. If you look at the old Citadel orcs, (http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/Orcs_-_FTO_Fantasy_Tribe_(solid_base)) for example, a huge amount of variety was achieved with head and weapon swaps. Given that a lot of Bones miniatures are already assembled from several parts, a similar approach could work really well - perhaps good, old-fashioned random-variant packs.
Sadly agree :(
Hmm.. seems like I'm ranting as well :)
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I disagree entirly. I know that that is your opinion and that you like to mention it as often as possible, but it is just an opinion, not a fact. I think the term we used for someting like that was Grnognardism ;) , though I think it is probably just nostaglia.
I think there are a few strands to untangle here - and I suspect our opinions aren't as far apart as all that. ;)
Spooktalker's point about "size objects" (if I understand it correctly - and my point if I don't) isn't about nostalgia at all - it's about how miniatures occupy space. The rise of the internet and miniature photography often tends to obscure the fact that these things are generally little more than an inch high. We all acknowledge this when we paint miniatures - as we exaggerate through highlighting and shading - but I think miniature producers sometimes forget it when they design things on computer in a scale-agnostic way. Not always, of course, but often enough. But someone like Nick Lund, who wasn't by any means the best miniature designer in the 1980s from a technical point of view, was adept at creating figures that read really well on the tabletop. Take the Eeza Ugezod's Mothercrushers Regiment of Renown: the officer and champion figures looked great on tabletops in the 1980s and they look great now - but both would be quite a challenge to get to look anywhere nearly as good as modern miniatures in a close-up photograph. But the point is that this isn't about nostalgia: there are plenty of contemporary miniatures that exploit their inch-high stature to the full too. The Descent adventurers that I mentioned really don't: they're nice in the pre-production images, but have nowhere near the clout of a good Lund or Morrison on the table.
The second point, though, is that the "Whig view of miniature history" - that miniatures have got better and better over the decades - doesn't really hold up. If you just take GW/Citadel, it's hard to argue that (for example) their orcs and goblins have improved from the Perry highpoint of the mid-80s. You could see an improvement in the Perrys' work from the early "red orcs" through the Fantasy Tribe stuff to the C15 and C13 ranges that bridged the introduction of slottabases. But it's hard to argue that there's been a steady progression since then. As I type, I've got a mix of night goblins on my desk: some are the one-piece Skull Pass plastics (which I quite like) and some are solid-based metal C13 Perry ones. The latter are incomparably better than the former (even though I like those): they're more individual, more visually interesting, less cartoony and simply better sculpted. The weapons of the C13 goblins are realistically sized whereas the Skull Pass goblins have huge swords and ludicrously thick spear shafts.
But compare either of those with the current range of GW night goblins, and both look far superior. There's no nostalgia in this view: I came across the current and Skull Pass ranges at the same time. I'd be surprised if many people think that the large-headed current range are better than the Skull Pass era (although I must admit that DeafNala has done brilliant things with the big-heads ...), and I'd be amazed if anyone could convincingly argue that the Skull Pass chaps are better than the last of the C13 range. Really, I think, it's about the skills of the sculptors. The Perrys are up there with the very best, and by the mid-80s they had mastered their craft.
And to underscore that point, much as I like (nay love) the quirky C19 Trish Morrison lizardmen, the current GW ones are better sculpted, better imagined and have as much or more tabletop clout. They are much less fun to paint, though ...
I think it's also clear that some designers have got better with age (Tom Meier's Ral Partha stuff was amazing in the 1970s and 80s - but his Thunder Mountain stuff is even better now), whereas others haven't improved or have even regressed (or perhaps just prefer doing cartoonier stuff).
The third strand (with which you agree, I think, given your comments on pot-bellied gangly orcs) is the modern trend towards "super-heroism" in miniatures of all sorts. Muscles upon muscles, outsized and bizarrely elaborate weapons, American-football armour: all that stuff, with no sense that creatures in an imaginary medieval or ancient world might be poor, hungry, ill-equipped or downright wretched. That's what really leaves me scratching my head with a lot of recent stuff: where do these orcs go to the gym, where do they buy their steroids and where do they buy all that expensive-looking gear?
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I bought several for my daughter. Still in their blisters, but they look good.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8aj6aXWAAAaA8u.jpg)
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I hope this one is clearer:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/J4qsjRECATxH9cl0Ja13PfuaJNiDlzVVf_WZaYoEO4xGH4PMXfoEe78OiJaBgZvCU6qzvoCJDp7tonfFmT6E2iDAz-iTroFFcK5SxyJftpcJv1L2bD1XaV75mHqurcNyTWtHTG7VqKU8c9fyaStXEu8jqZwJJsVbHll2xiJDBvTGunyUxGfyd_gBXpEfZit34LAg1WZmdPabijpQbTFWPgoSlGZxgz-aBC5-XVxPJCnQpte3wV2h93qtN00tA2hwJ_sHafMeE7GHtqr5qXLeiGkVrF8vqSC6YfOUqel85AmJKZ_xEWZm89ySbyOSUJMpOwdAQolGIxVyZlBZ007xnAGJYC-4CXXmUqRsQeYVZsxG4fDoXk1nOT8Ic9pfFx8uW8Tptw1W6Iw-QZrS1wGHfQhhHyJEjqIPSW5gKAfcVadpd6rNICHNi2Weg1-9fVmoG4LADICSeYHQgKns6ZcIYXKQcwOv29YKbw55BZYPMZPiVBHhYknq-259WndsKQvwvH9PibUFCja0fC9q5n4Hts8h_favG2DUXQKCrhiCutVg0yu6ABYMVHx_9CXzf7WBVxaV-X8XlNQj-Cmphz9DtYhPARXK3289tx2zjOffyFCqxIhFZJ8s=w876-h657-no)
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As I expected, the
Eagle Gryphon is a must have. The 28-32 mm figs, I have to see them in the flesh first. Thanks for putting those pics up! :)
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I hope this one is clearer:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/J4qsjRECATxH9cl0Ja13PfuaJNiDlzVVf_WZaYoEO4xGH4PMXfoEe78OiJaBgZvCU6qzvoCJDp7tonfFmT6E2iDAz-iTroFFcK5SxyJftpcJv1L2bD1XaV75mHqurcNyTWtHTG7VqKU8c9fyaStXEu8jqZwJJsVbHll2xiJDBvTGunyUxGfyd_gBXpEfZit34LAg1WZmdPabijpQbTFWPgoSlGZxgz-aBC5-XVxPJCnQpte3wV2h93qtN00tA2hwJ_sHafMeE7GHtqr5qXLeiGkVrF8vqSC6YfOUqel85AmJKZ_xEWZm89ySbyOSUJMpOwdAQolGIxVyZlBZ007xnAGJYC-4CXXmUqRsQeYVZsxG4fDoXk1nOT8Ic9pfFx8uW8Tptw1W6Iw-QZrS1wGHfQhhHyJEjqIPSW5gKAfcVadpd6rNICHNi2Weg1-9fVmoG4LADICSeYHQgKns6ZcIYXKQcwOv29YKbw55BZYPMZPiVBHhYknq-259WndsKQvwvH9PibUFCja0fC9q5n4Hts8h_favG2DUXQKCrhiCutVg0yu6ABYMVHx_9CXzf7WBVxaV-X8XlNQj-Cmphz9DtYhPARXK3289tx2zjOffyFCqxIhFZJ8s=w876-h657-no)
like i said, The gryphon and other large creatures seem great for the price.
That gryphon is big enough to be used as a mount.
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I think there are a few strands to untangle here - and I suspect our opinions aren't as far apart as all that. ;)
Spooktalker's point about "size objects" (if I understand it correctly - and my point if I don't) isn't about nostalgia at all - it's about how miniatures occupy space. The rise of the internet and miniature photography often tends to obscure the fact that these things are generally little more than an inch high. We all acknowledge this when we paint miniatures - as we exaggerate through highlighting and shading - but I think miniature producers sometimes forget it when they design things on computer in a scale-agnostic way. Not always, of course, but often enough. But someone like Nick Lund, who wasn't by any means the best miniature designer in the 1980s from a technical point of view, was adept at creating figures that read really well on the tabletop. Take the Eeza Ugezod's Mothercrushers Regiment of Renown: the officer and champion figures looked great on tabletops in the 1980s and they look great now - but both would be quite a challenge to get to look anywhere nearly as good as modern miniatures in a close-up photograph. But the point is that this isn't about nostalgia: there are plenty of contemporary miniatures that exploit their inch-high stature to the full too. The Descent adventurers that I mentioned really don't: they're nice in the pre-production images, but have nowhere near the cloud of a good Lund or Morrison on the table.
This is an opinion on which we won't agree, and don't need to be convinced of your opinion either. I disliked the Lund models back then and dislike them now
The second point, though, is that the "Whig view of miniature history" - that miniatures have got better and better over the decades - doesn't really hold up. If you just take GW/Citadel, it's hard to argue that (for example) their orcs and goblins have improved from the Perry highpoint of the mid-80s. You could see an improvement in the Perrys' work from the early "red orcs" through the Fantasy Tribe stuff to the C15 and C13 ranges that bridged the introduction of slottabases. But it's hard to argue that there's been a steady progression since then. As I type, I've got a mix of night goblins on my desk: some are the one-piece Skull Pass plastics (which I quite like) and some are solid-based metal C13 Perry ones. The latter are incomparably better than the former (even though I like those): they're more individual, more visually interesting, less cartoony and simply better sculpted. The weapons of the C13 goblins are realistically sized whereas the Skull Pass goblins have huge swords and ludicrously thick spear shafts.
But compare either of those with the current range of GW night goblins, and both look far superior. There's no nostalgia in this view: I came across the current and Skull Pass ranges at the same time. I'd be surprised if many people think that the large-headed current range are better than the Skull Pass era (although I must admit that DeafNala has done brilliant things with the big-heads ...), and I'd be amazed if anyone could convincingly argue that the Skull Pass chaps are better than the last of the C13 range. Really, I think, it's about the skills of the sculptors. The Perrys are up there with the very best, and by the mid-80s they had mastered their craft.
And to underscore that point, much as I like (nay love) the quirky C19 Trish Morrison lizardmen, the current GW ones are better sculpted, better imagined and have as much or more tabletop clout. They are much less fun to paint, though ...
I think it's also clear that some designers have got better with age (Tom Meier's Ral Partha stuff was amazing in the 1970s and 80s - but his Thunder Mountain stuff is even better now), whereas others haven't improved or have even regressed (or perhaps just prefer doing cartoonier stuff).
Again, disagree. Your examples which seem te be written to convince me. do not convince me as there is so much more to choose from than only what you mention. Seem to me more a case of you disliking some syles. With regard to the big head goblins, they acctualy stem from before the skull pass era. Skull pass was a step back into the direction of more "normal" sizes heads. Still it's fantasty and one can choose what one likes...
The third strand (with which you agree, I think, given your comments on pot-bellied gangly orcs) is the modern trend towards "super-heroism" in miniatures of all sorts. Muscles upon muscles, outsized and bizarrely elaborate weapons, American-football armour: all that stuff, with no sense that creatures in an imaginary medieval or ancient world might be poor, hungry, ill-equipped or downright wretched. That's what really leaves me scratching my head with a lot of recent stuff: where do these orcs go to the gym, where do they buy their steroids and where do they buy all that expensive-looking gear?
Again, disagree, I like both. I'm also have been a big fan of Boris an Frazetta (and anyhting else pictured on the cover of Heav Metal Magazine) artwork since the '80 and don't mind the body builder look. I like both normal and duper heroism syles, depending on what I'm using them for and am not trying to explain why it is nonsen for minitaures to look in a specific way. If I like them , I buy them, if I don't like them, I don't buy them, but I feel no need to convince others to share my taste or to convince them that my taste is the way it should be. Afterall, everyone has his/her own preference, which is the only thing that counts.
Anyhow, we are going off topic. Let's try to keep a discussion about (personal) taste put of this topic and focus on the models.
I need to see these model firsthand as the reviews that I have seen were very positive with regard to the mould lines, but I saw some pretty nasty ones that would need removal on all the pictures. maybe that the material is easy to work with , but I can't say that without having tested it. Bones for instance is annoying when removing mould lines, especially on warm days. Keeping them in the fridge or better even freezer for a while before working on them hardens te material and makes it much easier to handle.
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Can't find the video but Dr Faust did a look at a few of them.
The 2 packs aren't the same person, but different sculpts that fit the same character class with different archetypes. The female Paladin had one sword & board and one with what looks like a great sword...
Here is Dr. Faust's link. https://youtu.be/K51N079Ws6o
Also the 2 packs are of the same character as stated by WizKids. It is to show two levels of gear.
Grimm
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You guys are killin' me...the Dr. Faust video is the one in the original post and people keep mentioning it! lol
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Just bought two packs from Clifton Games, one with two gargoyles and one with 3 spiders, they look very good to me and price is very reasonable.
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A game master doesn't need 2 or 3 orcs. Having 2 or 3 orc miniatures is literally less useful than having zero orc miniatures. If you are a product manager with half a brain you sell a party of orcs, at least 8.
Gonna disagree with you here. If a gamemaster is going to buy eight miniatures, they're going to buy eight miniatures of different types before they're going to buy ten of one. Unlike, say, a wargame, you don't have two races fighting each other. You have a party fighting a variety of baddies of all shapes and sizes, and no manufacturer knows what bad guys a particular RPG group will be playing against. Furthermore, unlike wargaming and boardgames, RPG'ers are used to using dice, tokens, etc. alongside miniatures, just as much as they'll have a dry-erase map alongside 3D and 2D tiles. They're not going to have another encounter with ten orcs. They're going to have an encounter with two orcs and three dice proxying as orcs, then some bugbears and more dice, then some goblins and other dice, all on a beige 1" x 1" map with some out-of-print WotC dungeon tiles. Although Reaper shows off its painted figures, they know that many of their customers play with figures unpainted, right out of the blister, which is why many of their figures are pre-assembled. Unpainted, the detail of the figures work well enough. The current blister model satisfied the player, who has a wide assortment of models to choose for his character. I believe Reaper said the best results from Bones was selling large figures that would not sell in metal form (eg. a Hill Giant for $10 in Bones vs. $30 in metal).
I think GW, and now CMON, though have shown you can sell miniatures better than Reaper has. I do find it interesting that roleplaying game miniatures are sold primarily either as unpainted blisters or prepainted sets (Pathfinder) or random boosters (Pathfinder and WizKids D&D). AFAIK, It's not until you get to skirmish miniature games that you get to boxed sets (eg. Frostgrave's boxed sets).
That being said, if you look at their KS projects, Reaper is certainly selling the miniatures in sets, and, in retail, some monsters (eg. skeletons) are sold with more than one miniature to a pack. The Bones III Mythos (and Graveyard) set came in a box, and this set is certainly focused enough that it could be sold retail in a box, and Reaper could compare its boxed set sales vs. individual blister packs.
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Not to mention people are forgetting that you can run an Orc as a hero/player character...and if you're not encountering Orcs, then you don't need 8-10.
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For my money? Still happy with my Reaper Bones kickstarter miniatures, and not planning to get into Nolzur's minis. I got my hands on some for a few moments at a con last weekend, and here are a few reasons:
- I interact with kids on a fairly regular basis, and bones takes a beating from 5 year old hands very well. Better, I suspect, than these will. They feel like they will break long before a similar bones miniature.
- The designs are are quite D&D, and so aesthetically speaking I think they're bland.
- A lot of detail, as others have said, are -too- fine. So fine as to be kinda invisible at the distance of a tabletop. This may be more of a backhanded compliment than a criticism and YMMV
- Path dependence: I have a bunch of GW minis, reaper minis, and others of that nature. The scale of these deep cuts is aggressively realistic, designed in a computer, and unfortunately clashes badly with the more exaggerated proportions of what I already have. For humanoids anyway.
Overall, a solid product, definitely great monsters (I considered getting a gryphon but already have gryphons). I wish wizkids luck, because better things might lie in the future. But I'm all set already for this sort of fare, and nothing wow'd me.
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(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19247822_1562343970442322_1641002879111336070_n.jpg?oh=de19267ecd82d7dcad1015be8b948d08&oe=59DD0E3F)
I'm pleased with the result.
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Well that's pretty nice. I must get me some of them.
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I'm pleased with the result.
Nice! OT, but what sort of "dead" static grass did you use?
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Army Painters Wasteland tuft
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You can see teasers of the extended line for Novermber '17 here:
https://www.miniaturemarket.com/table-top-miniatures/nolzur.html#/?page=2
Note that most of the new ones have a price bump (sadly!)
The Deep Cuts teasers:
https://www.miniaturemarket.com/searchresults?q=pathfinder+deep+cuts
^Note, a lot of small terrain elements from Deep Cuts (could be nice for dungeon dressing)
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Beholder, centaur and Umberhulk lok cool. As does the caravan, although more expensive.
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You can see teasers of the extended line for Novermber '17 here:
https://www.miniaturemarket.com/table-top-miniatures/nolzur.html#/?page=2
Ahhhhh I see the dwarves are coming to play and from the looks are going to represent. Looking good.
Nice the ones that catch my eye are Aug release.
Grimm
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Great stuff on the way indeed.
I like that they'll bring back the Rusty Dragon Inn.