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Miniatures Adventure => Colonial Adventures => Topic started by: Andrei1975 on May 01, 2017, 11:56:05 AM
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Hello, friends. Recently received from the Perry brothers a few blisters Jacob's Rifles and could not resist painted a native officer today. I guess I'll be the first person on this forum who painted these guys. I ask for photo quality:
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Fine painting.
Is he the start of a unit?
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Looking nice
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Thank you. Of course it will be a full-fledged division in my army. Just recently, I read the dispute of colleagues in the appearance of this regiment and wanted to show how I will do it.
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But the images of the uniform of this regiment, which I took as a model:
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Molodyetz Andrei :D!
do you have dates for those two images of Jacob's Rifles?
EC
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The first one looks like a Lovett illustration, putting it around 1890-1900 (nearer the former I think).
I'm not certain but I'm not sure the second is the 30th/130th..
I'd love more info on this regiment (a pressing need now that the Perry's have released specific figures). I've seen a lot of contradictory info for this period and deep down have a fear that they were almost entirely in khaki at Maiwand ...
I love what you've done with yours. As 'correct' as anything I've seen. I was tempted to go for green or green fringed turban and puttees and khaki elsewhere. The blue turban is very fetching.
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According to Boris Mollo's The Indian Army, the second picture is of the 29th Bombay Native Infantry (Duke of Connaught's Own Baluchis), circa 1890 on a training exercise.
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Yes, my friend, the second figure of the 29th Baluchi regiment. And this form is for a later period. I just wanted to portray them in my red pants, which distinguish them from other parts. And at the expense of turbans, I saw an image of blue turbans in several shelves of Baluchi
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In general, I honestly did not manage to find an image of this regiment and, in general, the Baluchi regiments, for the second Afghan war. All images are for a later period. Here for example 26 and 27 shelves:
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Agreed, there's not much out there. I really want to do these in full red and green but wavering for now.
As a baluchi rifle regiment I wonder would the leather gear be in black?
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Thanks for the information guys, seems there is enough uncertainty to allow the purchaser of the new castings a few options...
cheers
EC
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Yes friends, there is very little information on the subject. I can only specify the minus of these miniatures-this is the absence even of part of their fez under the turban, which Muslims do not allow. And at the expense of leather ammunition-it was brown
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It's pretty certain that the 30th Bombay Native Inf. (Jacob's Rifles) wore khaki tunics at Maiwand, as opposed to, say, green. I gave mine khaki tunics but also red pants and green puttees, but I think there is a stronger historical argument for khaki pants and puttees as well.
Carman traces the 30th Bombay Native Inf. (Jacobs Rifles) back to a pair of Balooch Rifle regiments formed in 1858, then reorganized in 1861, when one of them became the 30th Bombay Infantry (filling a gap left by the disbandment of a previous unit by the same name back in 1858).
Carman says this unit (the "new" 30th Bombay), "...took the distinctive dress of dark green with scarlet trousers. The dark green pugri had a green fringe and a red kullah. This now made five Baluch regiments wearing the distinctive red trousers."
In Osprey's "Indian Regiments 1860-1914" by Michael Barthorp, the uniform regulation for 30th Bombay Native Inf. for 1881 is listed as "drab"; then for 1883 is listed as, "Green, faced red, with red trousers."
Back in 2010 when I was painting my own unit of Jacob's Rifles for my Maiwand Anniversary game, I think I was led to the green puttees by a photo of the unit wearing them while attending Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee in 1897. Obviously that is in no way indicative of what they wore 17 years earlier at war in Afghanistan, but since I liked the look, and could not find a certain reference for what they actually wore during the battle, I went with the more colorful version.
Regarding color of leather equipment, I have seen artwork showing another Belooch Rifle regiment, c.1870, in green tunic and red pants, with brown leather equipment, but I've also seen one c.1905, with black leather equipment, so difficult to say. You might want to post that one on the Second Afghan War section over at the Victorian Wars Forum.
As my friend Eclaireur has already said -- at least until someone finds more written or pictorial evidence of some kind -- it's a bit of an open book.
And last but not least from me at this point: very nice work on that officer, Andrei, and I too look forward to seeing him alongside his painted men!
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Thank you, Mad! I am very glad that you appreciated my work!
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It would be great to see a thread that had examples of everyone's interpretation of these :-). I'm anxiously waiting for mine to arrive any day now.
My current thinking is Khaki top and trousers, with green Turban (and red kullah) and puttees. Workmanlike with a few nods to the units purpose. I'm undecided on the leather-work. From the thread posted on the VW forum I get the impression that Mike Snook leans towards entirely khaki with perhaps the kullah in red.
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My friend, unfortunately there are no kullah on these models, you are supposed to mold them from the green. And about the turban of the color of khaki, I'm not a supporter of this point of view, almost in all the drawings and photos of that time turban colored, mass introduction of khaki will be later.
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Ah, interesting, thank you for the info :-)
Obviously local khaki production had been widespread in India for several decades by this point, so I can see the logic that regiments based in India had access to khaki items while on campaign (rather than rely on general Army issue). I agree though that coloured turbans are not only most commonly illustrated but just look better!
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It's true, no kullahs on the Perry Jacob's Rifles figures, which I believe is accurate.
Red kullahs for the 1st Bombay Native Infantry, aka: the Bombay Grenadiers, who are one of the only Indian regiments I know of wearing khaki turbans during the Second Afghan War, and were also present at Maiwand.
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Mad, there could be a problem with the translation. I mean that there are no kullahs on perry models at all and they need to be done from Green Stuff
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Andrei, I understood, but the wording of my reply is probably what was confusing.
I meant to say the Perry Jacob's Rifles figures not having kullahs seems like it's probably accurate, as some photos and illustrations I have seen of soldiers in Baluchi regiments from the 1860s show them in big turbans with no kullah visible. It's true, this is in opposition to the quote I posted from Carman, which distinctly mentions a "red kullah" as part of the official uniform of Jacob's Rifles in 1861.
When I search around on Google for Baluchi turbans I find little or no evidence of kullahs, but on the other hand, there are many photos showing Baluchi regiments from the 1890s and early 20th Century (like the ones you posted earlier in this thread) which show Baluchi soldiers wearing their turbans wound around very visible kullahs.
Personally, I don't think I would add kullahs to the Perry Jacob's Rifles figures, as I think they look good as is.
Also, I think however the Perrys sculpted them very likely incorporates the most up-to-date and best-informed version of historical accuracy, as seems to be the case with them painting the 66th Regiment's puttees all blue, as per Mike Snook.
Here's one more piece of info re: 30th Bombay Native Infantry (Jacob's Rifles) uniforms at Maiwand, which I knew I remembered having read long ago, and finally tracked down to its source: namely, the old Wargames Foundry "VICTORIANA" catalogue. In "The North West Frontier" section, under the heading "2nd AFGHAN WAR 1878-80" on page 94, is the entry:
30th Bombay NI (Jacob's Rifles)
Described as wearing short, tight-fitting khaki jackets, with trousers of the same material. Brown leather gaiters and boots.
Potentially more helpful, but potentially more confusing as well, with the mention of "brown leather gaiters" as opposed to puttees!
No source is noted, but it is a very specific quote and I would assume whoever transcribed it, found it in a primary source. But who knows, it may be an example of when I ASSUME, I make an A$$ out of U and ME.
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Thank you Mad! You are just a fount of information! I'm also not going to change the miniatures of my brothers. And on the account of trousers khaki-I do not want to do them. We are all the same vargeimery, and the red trousers are the distinctive sign of the Baluchi and it looks beautiful on the game table.
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Andrei - congratulations for provoking such a useful thread with a single figure! :D
Now, we need to see some more I think ;)
Mad Guru - a goldmine of information as ever. Many thanks.
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Thank you Keith. My goal was to get the opinion of colleagues on this issue. And the continuation will necessarily be, I plan a detachment of 20 figures.
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Andrei your stuff is always interesting. Always fascinating to see some unit I have never heard of before bought to life.
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Thank you my friend. That nice to hear!
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Good afternoon friends! Finally, I completed my platoon Jacob's Rifles:
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Nice work as usual, Andrei!
At some point down the line I will have to get a unit's worth of these new Perry Jacob's Rifles/30th Bombay Native Inf. figures for myself, to replace the Perry Sudan Sikhs I have been substituting for them since 2010.
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Thank you my friend! These miniatures are really very good, excellent work of the Perry brothers! I was very pleased when I painted them.
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Excellent painting, Andrei.
Very interesting thread about what the uniform colors where.
My rule of thumb is, if in doubt, go with the most colorful.
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Thank you for such a high rating! :-*
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Good afternoon friends. Here I painted a standard-bearer and captain-European for the 30th Regiment Bombay Native Infantry of Jacob's Rifles.
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Very nicely done. I love the gravel and grass tufts.
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Andrei, they look great! I love the standard as well. I will be painting mine the same, once I finally break down and order some more figs. I've got a few thousand unpainted minis right now begging for paint...
Cheers,
JB
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Thanks friends! Glad to be the inspiration for creativity! :-*