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Miniatures Adventure => Old West => Topic started by: Vagabond on June 05, 2017, 02:42:52 PM

Title: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Vagabond on June 05, 2017, 02:42:52 PM
Hi Guys

Just canvassing opinions and thoughts on town layouts to get the best tactical games out of a semi fixed town.

Having bought and painted a number of Black Scorpion figures that neither fit with my existing figures or buildings, - all about 30 years old I have decided to refurbish and rebuild the town.

Most folks go with buildings either based or unbased or occasionally multiple buildings on a single base, and then place them on a cloth, or textured base board. I have done all 3 in my time.

Buildings on bases, have a nice look to them because of the ability to create a small vignette, but the bases almost never tie up with the cloth or textured base board and look un-real in the context we see them because of this.

Ones without bases always appear disconected from the ground, I am not sure why, probably because you get a stark line between the 2, where as in reality there are plants weeds grass that blurr this line.

Similarly on a cloth a building sits flush but on a textured ground there are always gaps due to the texturing.

I have aquired a piece of 10mm MDF 1m x .8m and am going to go down the textured route and basing it in the arid SW USA.
My plan was to create an area of hard packed earth, i.e. the road and building area, this would have fine sand/gloop and then the outer areas of the board would be coarse sand/gloop, with vegetation. I would like to create a defined road by impressing waggon tracks, footprints etc.
The major downside with this is it means reducing the scope for varying the layout. As I am only using a small board I will have a 1 horse 1 street town or maybe a T junction such as this.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Vagabond on June 05, 2017, 03:01:21 PM
I know that most small western towns were originally 1 street lined by buildings but it seems a restrictive layout to game on.
I know that most of you don't incorporate a road and wondered why.

Regarding the buildings I want to try and tie them into the base board, having stuff growing around the buildings without attaching them to the board or putting them on their own individual bases, to try and get the sort of effect Mason manages but without the basing.

I wondered if I used a common sized footprint if I could lay down sidewalks fixed to the board with the small growing things also attached and then place the building on top of the sidewalks, although that means having sidewalks on all 4 sides of a building, and I don't really want them all the same size.

So the 1st question is what sort of a layout gives the best games, almost all my games will be objective driven i.e. bank raid, bust someone out of jail, very rarely a straight fight between 2 gangs.

2nd question, can I put a fixed road on the board without giving up too much flexibility.

3rd question how can I ground my buildings into the ground so they look as if they are built there without fixing them in place.

I know that there is no perfect solution but any thoughts would be gratefully received. Pictures can be attached directly to this thread by clicking Additional Options and browsing for a picture on your computer and attaching it. no need for photo hosting.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: dinohunterpoa on June 06, 2017, 05:25:34 AM
Vagabond, I don't think a "fixed" town is the very best idea... Have you ever considered that a modular surface would give you more flexibility in your adventures? This way in a bank robbery scenario you can zoom your attention to the bank and its "neighbourhood"; in another game the action moves to the saloon and hotel across the street... next week those mexican banditos are raiding an isolated ranch, and so on... Even with all your buildings on the table, you can only consider you're representing only part of a bigger town... Do your players prefer to sit around a smaller table or stand and move around a very big one for the duration of a series of games during the whole afternoon or evening?  ;)

Anyway, I wish you all the best on this project, please keep us posted!  :D
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Elbows on June 06, 2017, 12:40:03 PM
Yeah I definitely would not advise a fixed town.  I think you lose far too much versatility that way. 
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: FifteensAway on June 08, 2017, 04:24:22 AM
My personal plan - and I think it may get you where you want to go - is to build my town in 'modules' all with a common basing (or at least for each town, I have three in the works: southwest, out on the plains, and river side metropolis and jumping off point).  By this, I mean a block of buildings that will always be together.  And then another block.  And another and so forth.  Then there is the road (or roads) through town as separate pieces but with the buildings designed to work with the road.  Working in 15 mm, I have a bit of 'luxury room' in being able to create proper western roads that need to be wide enough for a wagon to turn around in.

This achieves a middle ground of easier and quicker setup but not always having the same arrangement because the blocks can be rearranged.  I can also include solo buildings as well based to match.  Personally, I'd work hard to avoid the sidewalks attached to the road though I think I understand your giving it consideration.

Love that you're giving it this kind of thought.  Lots of nice buildings appear and, for me, often in disappointing settings because they're just 'plopped' in place.  While my western goal isn't a skirmish level game, setting really matters a lot to me so I look forward to seeing what you accomplish.

Now, when I say 'in the works' I might mean I'm waiting for the encasing glacier to finish melting.  :'(
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Vagabond on June 08, 2017, 07:16:03 AM
Hi guys - thanks for your thoughts so far. Please keep them coming.

FifteensAway I was planning on having 200mm / 8" wide streets, partly for the look and partly because in my rules a figure could dash across without risking certain death.
How wide is the turning circle of a waggon in real life?

I like the modular idea, some while ago bunker monkey posted pics of his town with tiles of about 3 buildings to a base.

To fit with my storage boxes the bases would have to be 250mm x 400mm. If you look at the 2nd picture it is the size of the 3 buildings and fencing on the right.

It does create the issue of tile edges i.e. the chequer board effect which I was hoping to get away from by having this 1 piece board.
Maybe taking buildings, sidewalks and fencing right to the edge of the base would do that, in the same way not having a base on a building does.

Still left with the issue of the road. If I use pieces of road I will have join lines, if I sculpt it on the base board I will have a relativity static town layout or I could ignore it altogether which is the usual thing.

Dino - i was thinking that my town would be very small, 6 or 8 buildings, saloon, livery, Marshall, dry goods store, Wells Fargo/Post Office, land registry/assay office, gunsmith, bordello, and a bank.
Basically a large way station for the stagecoach and base for miners, general layabouts and vagabonds. ;)
So I was hoping to have it surrounded by scrub land to give it a sense of isolation, rather than it be part of a larger town.

Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: has.been on June 08, 2017, 07:47:10 AM
If I was starting a town now I would definitely go down the 'modular' route. Maximum flexibility along with speed of set up & ease of storage.
Various MDF firms will do customised work, so your templates don't have to be rectangles. Could be the same irregular shape.
If you have the modules drop into insets built into the base you reduce the edges showing problem. Remember you can have 'blank' modules, they don't all have to have buildings on.
I would include the walkways on the modules. Just to the front (occasionally also a side) does not have to be more than that)
There are some nice 'modular' western towns on the LAF I especially remember a nice 'China Town' module which had signage and Chinese lanterns. 
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: dinohunterpoa on June 08, 2017, 08:02:51 AM
Dino - i was thinking that my town would be very small, 6 or 8 buildings, saloon, livery, Marshall, dry goods store, Wells Fargo/Post Office, land registry/assay office, gunsmith, bordello, and a bank.
Basically a large way station for the stagecoach and base for miners, general layabouts and vagabonds. ;)
So I was hoping to have it surrounded by scrub land to give it a sense of isolation, rather than it be part of a larger town.

Vagabond, good luck in trying to make it small, because in my experience game towns have the magic of starting small and growing beyond our expectations almost overnight!  lol
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Vagabond on June 08, 2017, 08:36:17 AM
Has Been - how does it go - better to have been a has been than never been at all ;)

Thanks for the input, I hadn't considered inserts at all, presumably you mean something like multiple figure bases that take figures on penny bases. It certainly gets rid of the edges but would still leave gap lines, although I have been thinking of spreading sand and grit onto the table to help disguise this sort of thing. Takes me back to being a teenager using a sand table in the shed and unpainted airfix figures. Uncomplicated days :)

By the way I like the stuff you have been doing for Harry

Dino I have run out of space in my small wargaming world, the town will have to be small, I will be strong. :D
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: has.been on June 08, 2017, 04:33:11 PM
Thanks for the nice comment, and yes just like the sabot bases that hold penny (two penny for the rich wargamers) bases.
 I meant to say a sprinkling of sand would make (most) of the joint lines disappear, also useful is some lichen.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: dinohunterpoa on June 08, 2017, 08:19:19 PM
Dino I have run out of space in my small wargaming world, the town will have to be small, I will be strong. :D


Vagabond, when I was a kid my father had a Wild West town (for 40mm plastic figures) in a literal sandbox 6X4ft. The day come when we had to move to a bigger house, because the town was always increasing both in population and number of buildings!  lol


I suggest you to start with a small trading post: just kinda stagecoach overnight stop on the trail, with a general store, stables and simple hotel (for the passengers) with a bar (for the thirsty coachmen) and a blacksmith (for changing horseshoes). And some hookers, just for fun!  ;)
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: FifteensAway on June 09, 2017, 02:41:42 PM
Re: turning circle.  Generally, the turning radius is pretty wide but I haven't been able to pin it down to a number and I'd guess it varies with number of animals pulling it (mules, horses, oxen, camels!, etc.).

However!  I've watched live competitions of wagon drivers handling four horse teams who managed some amazing feats that would be very familiar to modern truck drivers.  Of course, most of this involved backing into a rail to demonstrate how to prep a wagon for loading/unloading rather than making an actual turn around movement.

So, I'd say give a wagon double the length of the wagon AND its team as a minimum.  Yes, they can turn tighter than that but it involves more difficult maneuvers which the horses might not appreciate.

That should be pretty easy to translate in game modeling terms.  Hope that answers your question.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Vagabond on June 09, 2017, 11:37:48 PM
Cheers - thanks for this, I need to measure my waggons and team but I guess my 8" road width is a bit on the small side but I think I will stick with it.

Still can't make my mind up re the board so I've been refurbishing existing buildings without bases so still have the option to go modular.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: rebelyell2006 on June 19, 2017, 04:05:18 PM
I've been in some ghost towns in New Mexico, that started before the railroad.  Most of the Anglo towns and some of the Hispano towns were laid out on one "street", with structures arranged on both sides of that.  The street was just a dirt expanse along a trail or pathway from one town to another, and the structures were mostly associated with business or administration in the center (with houses on the end or in a separate row behind the first, or living areas inside those merchant shops in the back).  Some Hispano towns were set up as fortified plazas, with the houses and businesses together in the plaza, with an opening on two sides for the road.  Other houses and businesses would be arranged either in streets or in a haphazard manner outside of the plaza.  The streets in Las Vegas outside of the plaza were set up after the railroad arrived but before automobiles arrived, so they were still laid out with wagons and horses in mind.  Most of those streets in the older districts are wide enough for cars traveling in both directions, along with enough space for parallel parking on both sides and some sidewalk space.  In the abandoned ghost towns, there is barely enough space for two modern vehicles to pass through, without any sidewalks or parking.  In Loma Parda, there is only enough space for one modern vehicle, with foot traffic on either side; someone driving a modern car through that town would have to back up and pull over to allow oncoming traffic in that town.

You have to decide how a town started in order to determine arrangement.  Some towns started because a trail passed through, and someone decided that there were enough small farmers and ranchers in a five-mile radius to set up a merchant shop.  Some towns started because they had a land grant, and a town plaza was required to keep the grant.  Some towns started around a wealthy landowner's house.  One unifying feature of almost every town is that wagons and travelers will enter one side and exit on the opposite side, with minimal turns.  In most occupied towns, that primary street is typically called "Main Street" and is usually a state or federal highway.  As for ghost towns, I have seen a few references to those primary streets also being called "Main Street", and the roads that still exist to those towns are usually unpaved county or private roads leading from one town to another.

You should definitely go with modular.  What if you decide a plaza arrangement would be more interesting for a game instead of a simple one-road town?
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Vagabond on June 20, 2017, 04:08:27 AM
Rebelyell - thanks for your comprehensive post.

Roads seem to be 4 lanes plus sidewalks max so 4 x 8' apx 32' plus say 6' = 36' for ease = 6 x 6' man = 6 x 30mm = 180mm apx 7 to 8" very roughly, which is close enough to 15saway thoughts on a waggon length as a sort of max.

The difference you describe between an Anglo and Hispano town development is interesting, do you think a small town would comprise different building structures, eg wood planking as well as Adobe or would they tend to be predominantly one material.
Also for Adobe would it all be mud coloured, a sort of dun/ochre or were they White washed?

In theory I don't think I am in favour of a single street because of the tactical limitations for a game and I like the plaza idea but do you think it will give a dead area in the center of the table due to its size and the fact I am only using a small board.

The general consensus seems to be modular, but I have only seen bunker monkey use what I would describe as a modular set up, if I go that way I will not need a textured board just a table :'(

Regarding town development I am very taken with developing on a game I posted a little while ago based on a stage coach change over station and building the town as an enlargement of the way station. It sort of gives a reason for the next building, rather than have a list of buildings to produce. A bit of a fancy I know.

Plenty of food for thought.

Thanks for your input
Cheers
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: dinohunterpoa on June 20, 2017, 04:23:33 AM
The general consensus seems to be modular, but I have only seen bunker monkey use what I would describe as a modular set up, if I go that way I will not need a textured board just a table :'(

Vagabond, you can still have a modular town by placing the buildings as needed in any configuration according to the scenario on a textured board/table!  ;)

BTW: have a great time in your vacations!  :D
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: rebelyell2006 on June 20, 2017, 05:45:35 AM
A plaza is not necessarily a dead zone.  In Las Vegas, for example, it started as an area for holding sheep overnight.  Later, it was used for parking the wagons that brought goods on the Santa Fe Trail.  There was a Hanging Windmill in the center.  Eventually, the residents pooled their money and turned it into a park, with trees and a gazebo in the 1880s.  Santa Fe has a large stone obelisk in middle of its plaza, dedicated to the New Mexico volunteers during the Civil War.  Towns with active and energetic residents would have decorated and green plazas.

Towns would be built with whatever was available in the surrounding area.  Before the railroad arrived, that was dictated entirely by the environment, and successful buildings used the appropriate local materials regardless of builders.  Fort Union is a great example.  The first fort was built by soldiers, using wood logs as the basic building block for their barracks.  The nearby wood consisted of short piñon and juniper trees, which are great for fireplaces but lousy for houses.  Those barracks failed, and were eventually replaced with all-adobe structures at the third fort.  Towns in the prairie would be about 99% adobe and 1% stone, as there are some rocky areas that can be quarried.  Watrous, La Liendre, and Trementina are good examples of that.  The Mora valley had a mix of adobe, wood, and stone buildings, as the forests were close enough to build log houses.  Las Vegas was entirely adobe outside of the stone parish church, simply because it was too far from tall trees necessary for good log houses.  When the railroad arrived, it brought the machinery necessary for saw mills and planing mills (which allowed the Anglos to build their familiar wood houses), along with trainloads of bricks from Raton and Trinidad (for the familiar red brick houses found back East as well).  Stone masons also arrived on the railroad, which allowed for fancier stone structures instead of the cruder ones found nearby.  Before the railroad, the Anglo and Jewish merchants satisfied themselves with adobe houses.  Some of the wealthier people would either spend the money to import construction materials along the wagon trails, or they would clad their houses with familiar materials once the railroad arrived.  That Eastern cladding was also common in Santa Fe starting in the 1880s, as residents Anglicized their homes; they wanted to make the city look Eastern, as a part of converting the territory into a state.  Generally speaking, most structures would be of the most common material found in the area, regardless of the origins of the resident; deviations would be the churches and the houses of the alcaldes, as those could be made from expensive materials.

Adobe structures are made from adobe bricks, with the entire thing covered with a thick layer of mud.  The mud out here is mostly an ochre color.  Whitewash was common, but would easily be displaced by strong winds or violent rain.  The mud covering also washed away over time, so re-mudding and whitewashing was a regular chore for adobe structures.

Generally speaking (at least in New Mexico), the trails and stage coaches traveled from existing community to existing community, as the land-grant system started spreading out small communities long before the American Revolution.  Stage stations were often single buildings that were a day's travel from the next station or town, like Pigeon's Ranch.  Places like Trementina and La Liendre started as there was ample land for livestock and a nearby water source.  Places like Watrous (La Junta) started because of a water source and a closeness to the newly-established Santa Fe Trail.  The same went for the towns in the Maxwell Grant, which started after the arrival of the Santa Fe Trail (mostly with Anglo landlords and Hispano ranch-hands and squatters).  Loma Parda started because merchants understood the needs of soldiers trapped in a fort.  Las Vegas was situated by a river, nestled in a good defensible position but near excellent pastures.  Pecos resulted from merchants establishing resting houses for teamsters on the Santa Fe Trail.  Like the homesteads in the north, communities in New Mexico started because the spread-out ranchers wanted a nearby meeting place with a church and a merchant's shop within a decent distance.  Mining towns like Dawson and Sugarite appeared, and were frequently either owned by a mine company or owned by the people who discovered the minerals.  Railroad towns like Raton and Wagon Mound appeared, in part because the railroad wanted watering and fueling locations, and in part because nearby natural resources made the railroad and branch lines necessary.  Railroad towns required plenty of laborers, and the service industries that made them happy; stage stations required plenty of grazing land for replacement horses and mules.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: dinohunterpoa on June 20, 2017, 07:44:41 AM
rebelyell2006, thank you very much for the info, I really appreciate that!  ;)
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Vagabond on June 21, 2017, 04:23:18 AM
Rebelyell - wow - fantastic response thanks a lot, loads of interesting information and I really appreciate you taking the time to put it all down.

Given what you have said it seems like the railroad was the major factor for change, roughly what time period would that have happened, 1880's or later?

You refer to log buildings are they the sort of structures that probably in my ignorance I think of as being built in the forests of northern US and Canada. I didn't realise New Mexico had much in the way of trees, so I would be looking at trimmed logs initially and then sawn timber after the railroad.

It gets more interesting so the time.
Cheers


BTW: have a great time in your vacations!  :D

Thanks mate although I'm not sure my wife thinks of it as a vacation o_o
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: rebelyell2006 on June 21, 2017, 05:50:49 AM
New Mexico is incredibly diverse.  The east half of the territory has the Mesalands, the Staked Plains, and the Chihuahua Desert, along with portions of the Great Plains.  The Rio Grande Valley is mostly desert with very lush vegetation along the bosque; there are some good vineyards along the riverbed. There are also mountains in the northwest, northern, and northeast parts of the state, particularly the Sangre de Cristo Mountains (a subpart of the Rocky Mountains), which has heavy concentrations of trees like ponderosa pines.  Lincoln County, an area associated with gunslingers and the Old West, has rolling geography that ranges from low pine-covered mountains to rough scrub to grassy open ranges.  Las Vegas, also associated with gunslingers, is located between the Creston (a lightly wooded hilly area) and vast seas of grass that turn to scrub as it approaches the Mesas.  The mining and timbering towns of Colfax County are located in the foothills of the Sangre de Cristos.  There were timbering and mining camps in what is now the Pecos Wilderness, which is a series of heavily forested hills and valleys forming the watershed of the Pecos River (ranging between 7000 feet and 11000 feet).  The gold and silver mines in southwest New Mexico were a bit lower in elevation, but still had similar variety.  The southeast corner has fewer hills, and varies between scrub and grassland.  White Sands and the Trinity Site (which is really fun to visit if you get a chance) are somewhat grassy, and acceptable for ranching.  Generally speaking, during the time of the Old West, the northwest was associated mainly with sheep, while other parts in the north also had sheep.  Wool was originally the greatest export of Las Vegas prior to the late 1880s.  Cattle became prominent in the northeast, east, central, and southeast part of the states mainly due to the influence of Texans and wealthy lawyers/prospectors appearing in the late 1870s.  Much of the strife in the territory occurred between the Hispanos (wanting to use the communal land grants as they always did), the Anglos (wanting to buy and fence off that communal land, and establish large company ranches), and the Native Americans (who wanted the Spanish and English outsiders to just go away and leave them alone).  However, the large company ranches hired anybody wanting employment, which meant there were many freedmen and Hispanos working as cowboys.

A good way to describe the state is a narration of the drive from Tucumcari to Las Vegas along state highway 104.  It starts in a railroad town (started in 1901, but had various ranching populations since the mid 1800s and Fort Bascom for a while) in an area that is open grassland.  As it goes west, the road goes around a number of mesas.  The vegetation turns from grass to scrub.  It eventually approaches the Canadian Escarpment, which is a sudden increase in elevation along the Canadian River.  At the top of the elevation, it turns into grassland; that is literally a sea of grass, aside from a few hills that have short trees and large bushes.  At Las Vegas, the land suddenly drops because of the Gallinas River, into a valley that has the town.  If you wish to drive further west along state highway 283, you will go into a hilly area covered with short trees, known as the Creston.  Continuing west, it drops into a valley with excellent pastures and very nice scenic views.  Continuing west, it starts to increase in elevation until it enters forested areas.  At that point, the road splits between a private road leading to a summer camp, and a forest road entering the Santa Fe National Forest.  The NF land is hilly, with trees (a mixture of short piñons and taller ponderosas); it eventually reaches the Pecos Wilderness, and then dramatically jumps in elevation as it reaches the Santa Fe Mountains (with a very prominent peak of the Santa Fe Baldy at over 12000 feet).  There are trails that allow backpacking, and from there you can walk to the state capital at Santa Fe.  Most merchants opted instead to take the Santa Fe Trail, which traveled south of the Santa Fe Mountains, through Glorieta Pass.

The first railroad in New Mexico was the AT&SF, which traveled south from the Raton Pass, arrived in Las Vegas in 1879, and arrived in Santa Fe in 1880; it eventually went south towards El Paso.  The Southern Pacific went through the southern portion of the state, from California to El Paso, arriving in Lordsburg in 1880; both railroads met at Deming in 1881.  Numerous branch lines appeared off of both, to accommodate the timber and mineral extraction (and the ice ponds of Montezuma).  The two main railroads, and multiple smaller railroads, eventually created many branch lines to connect the smaller ranching towns; those branch lines frequently arrived after the end of the "Old West" period.  The towns in Colfax, San Miguel, and Santa Fe Counties and the portions of the original Doña Ana County had railroads during the traditional "Old West" period.  The rest of the New Mexico territory had towns that were established around ranching and land grant communities, along with a few stage stations and military forts.

Think of New Mexico this way during the Old West period.  In the northeast corner, there were towns established around the AT&SF railroad, the Santa Fe Trail, towns established for the gold and coal and timber extraction, and towns established for sheep and cattle [Las Vegas, Colfax, Glorieta, etc].  In the northwest corner, there was the Navajo Nation, along with various sheep ranch communities [Fort Wingate, Diné, etc].  In the southeast corner, there were small ranching communities and large Texan ranches (as this predated both the railroads, the potash mines, and the oil fields) [Lordsburg and Deming].  In the southwest corner, there were gold and silver mines, small sheep and cattle ranch communities, and towns established because of the railroad and the Butterfield Overland Mail Trail [pretty much nothing, but plenty after the end of the Old West].  In the central portion of the state (running from Colorado to Mexico), there were many small Native American pueblos and enforced reservations for nomadic peoples, along with sheep and cattle ranches [Lincoln, Roswell, the Mescalero and Jicarilla areas, the Rio Grande valley and Valverde].
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: rebelyell2006 on June 21, 2017, 06:02:45 AM
Of course, I say that and then completely forget that Blackjack Ketchum was active up until 1901.  At that point, there were numerous tiny railroad towns and branch lines that went out to the previously established ranching communities.  Ketchum was hanged in Clayton, which was a town along the Santa Fe Trail (and eventually gained a railroad branch line).  By 1901, some of those mining towns in the northeast and southwest failed, Las Vegas had split into two modern cities (that did not reunite until 1970), and the southeast was already starting to explore the possibilities of oil in the Permian Basin.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Vagabond on June 21, 2017, 12:27:48 PM
Fantastic, that's really interesting. I had a quick look at Las Vegas and came up with Las Gorras Blancas  in the 1890's and lots of other stuff to make game scenarios from.

The state topography sounds splendid. Wikipedia says no country for old men was filmed around Las Vegas and that is exactly how I envisioned the dry dessert I want to try and create for my games.

You don't work for the tourist board do you - because you certainly sold me on the place. I also came across loads of photos from the 1880's by using the town names, something I've not been finding with a more general Google search.

The Hanging Windmill search came up with even more game scenarios.

So a huge THANKS. :D

Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: rebelyell2006 on June 21, 2017, 05:20:15 PM
No, I just live in the Old West and want to share information with those who would have to fly out here to see it themselves.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: DS615 on June 22, 2017, 02:29:30 PM
Yeah I definitely would not advise a fixed town.  I think you lose far too much versatility that way. 

I disagree.  Especially for westerns, the town itself is often a full character in the game. 
Having it be fixed so houses and shops are always in the same spot, not necessarily physically glued, means every game is an addition to the towns history.  Players come to know the town like real people do real towns. Over time, the town becomes an entity in its own right. 
  In our games, our town has been the same for years.  It generates a lot of the scenarios just by existing, knowing who the people in the town are and how they behave (based on previous game experiences). It also lends to a "campaign feel", even if you're only playing one off games, buy creating an actual history.
"I activate that guy, the one over there where Clara stole the wagon that one time."

   Another benefit is the details of the buildings.  A shop specific to a town can have details or signage appropriate to that town, without having to worry about it making sense in a general context.
   We have the town set-up as static, meaning it's always laid out the same, but the buildings are all individually based so we can use them in other setups when/if we want to.  The Doctor's house for example has also been an outlaws hide out, the Marshal's home, and the ranch house on a cattle farm.
   It's quite a rewarding experience.

As for the basing question; keep the edges of the base as small as possible, and simply flock/paint/goop them the same as the table surface.  It means every building is sitting on a little "hill", but it looks fine.

We do the same "static placement" with our superhero games, and for the same history-story reasons, though in that case the city is divided into Districts that conform to the game table size.  Not a major concern in a smaller western town.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: warlord frod on June 22, 2017, 03:25:57 PM
I disagree.  Especially for westerns, the town itself is often a full character in the game. 
Having it be fixed so houses and shops are always in the same spot, not necessarily physically glued, means every game is an addition to the towns history.  Players come to know the town like real people do real towns. Over time, the town becomes an entity in its own right. 

Well said. I could not agree more.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: jon_1066 on June 22, 2017, 05:29:10 PM
I disagree.  Especially for westerns, the town itself is often a full character in the game. 
Having it be fixed so houses and shops are always in the same spot, not necessarily physically glued, means every game is an addition to the towns history.  Players come to know the town like real people do real towns. Over time, the town becomes an entity in its own right. 
  In our games, our town has been the same for years.  It generates a lot of the scenarios just by existing, knowing who the people in the town are and how they behave (based on previous game experiences). It also lends to a "campaign feel", even if you're only playing one off games, buy creating an actual history.
"I activate that guy, the one over there where Clara stole the wagon that one time."

   Another benefit is the details of the buildings.  A shop specific to a town can have details or signage appropriate to that town, without having to worry about it making sense in a general context.
   We have the town set-up as static, meaning it's always laid out the same, but the buildings are all individually based so we can use them in other setups when/if we want to.  The Doctor's house for example has also been an outlaws hide out, the Marshal's home, and the ranch house on a cattle farm.
   It's quite a rewarding experience.

As for the basing question; keep the edges of the base as small as possible, and simply flock/paint/goop them the same as the table surface.  It means every building is sitting on a little "hill", but it looks fine.

We do the same "static placement" with our superhero games, and for the same history-story reasons, though in that case the city is divided into Districts that conform to the game table size.  Not a major concern in a smaller western town.

That's a really interesting take on things.  However it does not preclude a modular build - you just have to assemble it the same every time.  I think at the least the bulk of the buildings would need to be removable so you can use them in different settings - like you say with the Docs house. 
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: dinohunterpoa on June 22, 2017, 07:19:36 PM
Vagabond, IMHO a "fixed" town is a lovely display, and game-wise works well if its a very small town on a big table. For better playability in bigger towns, a modular build allows the players to use a smaller table and "zoom" in specific areas of the town according to the game scenario. This way, of course the configuration of the town itself in a bigger plane stays the same, what changes from game to game is the point of view of the players - allowing them to play the game comfortably seated around a regular-sized table representing a specific section of the town.  

With a bigger town on a bigger table, the players usually have to move a lot around the room... but it is usually great for very active players and multiplayer games!  lol

You've said before that you are strong in you commitment to keep the town small... Well, just keep in mind that on the game table - as in real life most of the time - no town stays small for a long time; specially these days when lots of new great Old West scenery are in stores each month!  lol  

Once again, have a great vacation! I am pretty sure you time in Greece will provide you with some great ideas for small game towns...   

Pirate towns, of course!  ;)  
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Vagabond on June 22, 2017, 08:58:39 PM
I disagree.  Especially for westerns, the town itself is often a full character in the game.  
Having it be fixed so houses and shops are always in the same spot, not necessarily physically glued, means every game is an addition to the towns history.  Players come to know the town like real people do real towns. Over time, the town becomes an entity in its own right.  
  In our games, our town has been the same for years.  It generates a lot of the scenarios just by existing, knowing who the people in the town are and how they behave (based on previous game experiences). It also lends to a "campaign feel", even if you're only playing one off games, buy creating an actual history.

DS615 and Warlord Frod -  think that what Elbows was implying was that you retain greater flexibility for games and maybe use of buildings by not having a fixed layout.

At the moment as i said I am inclined to your view of having a town that has grown organically and the shops and bars have owners that participate in the games, but it needs to give the best layout for game play, do you have pictures of your town? How does its layout affect games.

That's a really interesting take on things.  However it does not preclude a modular build - you just have to assemble it the same every time.  I think at the least the bulk of the buildings would need to be removable so you can use them in different settings - like you say with the Docs house.  

This surely comes down to elbows point, you have individual houses and so can create the same town over and over or lay them out differently.

What I am interested in is the look of the board and how the buildings sit on the board if they are removable how do you ground them in the board.and can I have a fixed textured street without creating a tactically similar game each time.

Please note this is 1m x .8m board

Thanks for you thoughts its all helping with the planning process.

Dino, thanks as usual for your input.You make some good points.

Don't start with the pirates,  lol lol lol I bought 8 at salute, but need to start the old West first.

Following on from Rebelyells info and what I started to read on the Web I am all fired up, just need the time.



Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: dinohunterpoa on June 22, 2017, 09:09:40 PM

Vagabond, hope you all the best with your (surely GREAT) little town; with a 1m X 0,80m fixed board you can have a very detailed and textured surface, it's very nice indeed!

Do you already have a name for it?

My own Wild West town has just been officially postponed... I've just came waltzing from the Postal Office with a new big PIRATE SHIP under my arm and a heck of a smile on my face!  lol
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: warlord frod on June 23, 2017, 02:19:24 AM
DS615 and Warlord Frod -  think that what Elbows was implying was that you retain greater flexibility for games and maybe use of buildings by not having a fixed layout.

Yes, that is exactly right and I agree. At the same time what DS615 is saying is have a standard set plan for your town and set it up the same each time so that you have a sense of setting history. So, for example, my town's name is "Tinkers Creek" and I have set it up many times to play out various games. (You can see my layout here http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=51862.150) I use a 3ft square board and simply set my buildings on the board but if it's a game set in tinkers creek I always set it up as shown. Now I can take the same buildings and set up another town say "dead man's gulch" my fictional ghost town and it looks like this.

(http://i926.photobucket.com/albums/ad110/warlordfrod/WIN_20170203_09_12_58_Pro_LI_zpsn6j7oivl.jpg~original)

I also have more buildings so I could make entirely different locations or expand my town to a 4x6 table. Still, I would maintain a specific layout so as to encourage a sense of history.

Now in response to the original question about mounting buildings to individual boards that can still be arranged on your table. I have considered doing that and still may because I would like to try and ground my buildings even more but for now, I like what I've got.

  
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Elbows on June 23, 2017, 02:57:34 AM
Yep, there's no reason that modular doesn't mean keeping the town set in one way.  Most of us game 28mm, so it's rare you're going to have a full town set-up which is that large.  Well, what if you wanted to play down main street a bit?  Shift all of your buildings and put some new ones on.  Want to play the approach to town?  Shift the buildings to one edge and add some trees, etc.  If you run a particular convention game, or you play Old West once a year maybe a fixed board is fine.  Me?  I can cover 3-4 tables with the terrain I have, so I like to keep it variety-packed.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: rebelyell2006 on June 23, 2017, 03:08:03 AM
Plus, that wood is nice and flammable.  Stone is less susceptible to fires, but even adobe buildings will collapse after a fire because the wooden roof and vigas really hold the walls together.  The west tends to be windy, and lanterns break easily.  A modular or semi-modular board would let you swap out the occasional burned house or shop.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Vagabond on June 23, 2017, 03:21:41 AM
I'm not sure if this will work but this is the sort of effect I would like to get.

I don't know the etiquette for this. It is some elses picture rob b not sure of last name who posted it on this board a while ago, so I guess there may be some copyright issue, please let me know if I shouldn't post it and I will remove it.

What has been done is to use the 4ground bases fixed to the board with street ruts and vegetation built in. The buildings are loose on top but it looks like it's all one piece.

This means you can have the same town each time or to vary the town you need buildings all the same size to swop round.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Vagabond on June 23, 2017, 03:29:37 AM
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=94199.msg1162593#msg1162593 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=94199.msg1162593#msg1162593)

This should be the link to his original topic and it is rob bresen.

For me what makes this outstanding is the interface between the buildings and the board.

Thanks for all your thoughts so far.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: dinohunterpoa on June 23, 2017, 03:52:19 AM
Really IMPRESSIVE!  :-*

I did something like that years ago for a 1,20m X 1,20m ROADKILL scenery (a simple old Route 66 dinner and gas station), but it soon was transported to a table tennis table (sadly with no texturing at all) as the number of players and gangs increased!  lol
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Doug ex-em4 on June 23, 2017, 01:06:17 PM
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=94199.msg1162593#msg1162593 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=94199.msg1162593#msg1162593)

This should be the link to his original topic and it is rob bresen.

I remember that thread - doesn't it look fabulous? And Vagabond, I think you can rest easy about using the photo - I know Rob and I doubt very much if he'd object.

Doug
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: jon_1066 on June 23, 2017, 01:51:34 PM
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=94199.msg1162593#msg1162593 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=94199.msg1162593#msg1162593)

This should be the link to his original topic and it is rob bresen.

For me what makes this outstanding is the interface between the buildings and the board.

Thanks for all your thoughts so far.

Why not do that then?  The boardwalks act as place holders for the buildings and you can swap the buildings about to produce variety if you want (or leave them empty or put in something being built and burnt down).  It could be a nice way to build up the twon.  So you start the town with the road and place holders for a couple of buildings plus say one building and a building under construction.  You can then add another place holder and move the building under construction.  You then swap that out for the next building you complete and add another empty lot.  Keep going as you expand your town (all the while playing games on it).  Perhaps a building burns down - swap it for a burnt out wreck.  You could use additional boardwalk on buildings that are smaller to fill in the gaps.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: hentzau on June 23, 2017, 03:49:24 PM
I decided against the dedicated town layout board because I really don't have room to store something like that.  I use a roll-up mat for the ground and just set the buildings on the mat, but I always lay it down in the same way because I like the town that way and can get maximum buildings and terrain on it that way.  I currently only break this out for conventions.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/hentzau/A%20Town%20Called%20Zenda/IMG_4920.jpg)

This is kind of the end state of what Zenda looks like.  Once i get my game room re-assembled and can start up a full on campaign, my plan is to go back to the roots, and start with a little 3x3 set up of just a couple of buildings, and through the campaign watch the town grow.  Add a building each game, as people invest in the business in town.  Then continue to grow the town until through the campaign it looks like the above. 
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: DS615 on June 23, 2017, 04:44:59 PM
I decided against the dedicated town layout board because I really don't have room to store something like that. 
That's the deciding factor for most of us, I imagine.
I can build it, but where the heck do I put it?

A board the looks like a modeled one but has separate pieces for storage or arrangement, is kind of the holy grail.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Vagabond on June 23, 2017, 09:38:53 PM
I remember that thread - doesn't it look fabulous? And Vagabond, I think you can rest easy about using the photo - I know Rob and I doubt very much if he'd object.

Doug

Cheers Doug - that's good to know and yes I thought it was one of the best and most inspirational tables I have seen.

Jon1066 - thanks - your suggestion seems to be simply the right answer. The only question is that I don't want buildings with the same size footprint, but I sort of see that might be the trade off that I have to make.

Hentzau- nice looking town, when you go back to a 3'square table what will be be the configuration of table, ie will you have main Street and then some side street, how do you find games work out tactically.

DS615 - I'm thinking that I have a10mm thick board and so if I raise the surface as Jon suggests by place holders and boardwalks of say 20mm I can store it fairly easily.

Thanks again for your thoughts and suggestions
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: hentzau on June 26, 2017, 07:12:38 PM
I would probably start with a crossroads.  Just a couple of buildings, some tents, and lots of woods.  Then start to build out buildings as people invest in businesses.  I would probably draw it up on a map, and then we could play our 3x3 games on different parts of the town, just set up those buildings.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: dinohunterpoa on July 05, 2017, 02:26:27 AM

Vagabond, North Star put a 25% off sale for the next week on 4 Ground Old West buildings, check them out!  ;)

http://northstarfigures.com/list.php?man=129&cat=363&page=1 (http://northstarfigures.com/list.php?man=129&cat=363&page=1)
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Vagabond on July 07, 2017, 08:11:31 PM
Dino, thanks for the link, they look quite a discount. I have decided to build my own to get a town that looks different even if they will not be as professional. Good of you to send the link though. I appreciate it.

Hentzau- I think that is excellent advice, cheers.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Elbows on July 07, 2017, 08:51:24 PM
The best place to get 4Ground buildings for DMH is directly from Great Escape Games.  They have excellent combo-deals w/ free international shipping.  I have yet to find a single reasonable US retailer for them.

Asshats like Noble Knight Games sell them on eBay with completely incorrect MSRPs (30-40% higher than from the 4Ground site) etc. 
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: dinohunterpoa on July 07, 2017, 11:35:43 PM
I have decided to build my own to get a town that looks different even if they will not be as professional.

For me scratchbuilding is always the way to go!  :D

Looking forward to see your western town! Have you already got its name?

The only thing I know for my WIP town is the name of the saloon/whorehouse: "THE HORNY JACKALOPE"  ;D
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Smokeyrone on July 08, 2017, 01:49:57 AM
I decided against the dedicated town layout board because I really don't have room to store something like that.  I use a roll-up mat for the ground and just set the buildings on the mat, but I always lay it down in the same way because I like the town that way and can get maximum buildings and terrain on it that way.  I currently only break this out for conventions.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/hentzau/A%20Town%20Called%20Zenda/IMG_4920.jpg)

This is kind of the end state of what Zenda looks like.  Once i get my game room re-assembled and can start up a full on campaign, my plan is to go back to the roots, and start with a little 3x3 set up of just a couple of buildings, and through the campaign watch the town grow.  Add a building each game, as people invest in the business in town.  Then continue to grow the town until through the campaign it looks like the above. 

Nice.   Remember, you can sprinkle, pour and position all sorts of loose ballast rock, course and fine flocking, and various ground like clay, dust, dirt, etc.   Easy to even "blend in" buildings and such into the board.      When you take up the mat, just pour it all back into containers.

Its a GREAT way to make a mat or generic table tob come alive. 
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Vagabond on July 08, 2017, 06:03:36 AM
For me scratchbuilding is always the way to go!  :D

Looking forward to see your western town! Have you already got its name?

The only thing I know for my WIP town is the name of the saloon/whorehouse: "THE HORNY JACKALOPE"  ;D
[/quote

I thought of Little Whisky turning into Big Whiskey as it grew but wasn't that the name of the town in pale rider?

I like the sound of your whore house might mosey on down that way when it's built.


Smokey one your idea does work well, recently I have seen a couple of games on a Hessian cloth with various grades of sand and pebble and I thought it looked the part.]
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: dinohunterpoa on July 08, 2017, 06:26:00 AM
Vagabond, you're always welcome in The Horny Jackalope Saloon!  ;)

Incidentally, the lovely shotgun-totting 50057 Reaper Miss Scarlet Wild West Madam was the very first Old West figure I've bought for this project:

(https://www.reapermini.com/graphics/gallery/4/50057_w_1.jpg)



Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: rebelyell2006 on July 10, 2017, 04:28:00 AM
Nice.   Remember, you can sprinkle, pour and position all sorts of loose ballast rock, course and fine flocking, and various ground like clay, dust, dirt, etc.   Easy to even "blend in" buildings and such into the board.      When you take up the mat, just pour it all back into containers.

Its a GREAT way to make a mat or generic table tob come alive. 

Definitely.  Don't be afraid to use plenty of dust and dirt.  While at Fort Stanton yesterday, the wind started picking up.  For a few minutes, there was no visibility because of the dust flying, and when it was over, everything had a thin film of dust.  Mother Nature is quite willing to sandblast painted surfaces.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: dinohunterpoa on July 10, 2017, 05:55:17 AM
Definitely.  Don't be afraid to use plenty of dust and dirt.  While at Fort Stanton yesterday, the wind started picking up.  For a few minutes, there was no visibility because of the dust flying, and when it was over, everything had a thin film of dust.  Mother Nature is quite willing to sandblast painted surfaces.

Someone has suggested to spray a mist of Tamiya TS46 Light Sand Color Spray over the finished town just to get that "sandblasted" effect!  ;)

(http://atomicslotcars.com.au/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/600x600/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/t/s/ts46tamiya_paint_100ml_spray_-_light_sand.jpg)
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Vagabond on July 11, 2017, 03:40:15 PM
Someone has suggested to spray a mist of Tamiya TS46 Light Sand Color Spray over the finished town just to get that "sandblasted" effect!  ;)

(http://atomicslotcars.com.au/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/600x600/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/t/s/ts46tamiya_paint_100ml_spray_-_light_sand.jpg)


 o_o Dino  do you think you could try this out and let me know how you go on with it. It could go either way. ;)
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: dinohunterpoa on July 11, 2017, 05:32:15 PM
o_o Dino  do you think you could try this out and let me know how you go on with it. It could go either way. ;)

I tried the Tamiya spray on both a MDF building and on a coffee-stirred planked one (none of the buildings were previously varnished, just painted with acrylics) in an angle of about 40 degrees; works just perfect IMHO, it only takes the care of reaching the proper distance to not overdo it!  ;)

A picture from where I took the idea:

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/75/dc/cd/75dccd2a14459a7c3d53d35609bd1d25.jpg)

]http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/forum/21-dioramas/[url] (http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/forum/21-dioramas/[url)[/url]


  
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Vagabond on November 11, 2017, 06:13:18 PM
I managed to get a little work done on this project over the summer but didn't have time to post.

I still haven't decided, how I want it to end up but reasoned that some progress is better than sitting on my hands, so have gone down the route of a textured board and individual unbased buildings, using sand to cover the join between buildings as best I can.

So to start here is the base board along with what I consider it's success and failure.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_11_11_17_6_52_59_0.JPG)
This is the board covered with a mixture of fine yellow sand mixed with premixed wallpaper paste from B and Q. I thought when I bought the paste it was PVA but I don't think it is. It has set rock hard and I am happy with it, the board has warped badly, it is only 9mm MDF. I think I should have followed some advice I was given to only cover a part of the board let it set and then do some more.
As usual I was in a rush o_o o_o

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_11_11_17_6_52_59_1.JPG)
I used a wallpaper scrapper to spread the mix, and then sprinkled more sand on top and pressed it down, expecting this to remove any tool marks.
When the mix was dry there were a number of 'holes in the texture' so I filled them and it dried a different colour.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_11_11_17_6_52_59_3.JPG)
Plan A had always been to paint it but I think if it had dried a consistent colour I might not have bothered.

Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Vagabond on November 11, 2017, 06:30:19 PM
Sorry pressed the wrong button.

Previous picture is obviously the 1st coat of paint.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_11_11_17_6_52_59_4.JPG)
2nd or 3rd coat, still looking ok. These are the colour swatches I used. Jeff965 gave me the information from his post and I just copied it. Sorry Jeff no time to provide a link to your post.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_11_11_17_6_54_08_0.JPG)
Final dry brush and I managed to highlight all the tool marks that I had been at pains to hide. Duhh :'(

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_11_11_17_6_54_08_1.JPG)
Final board, you can see the distortion. This is ok for me because I am not going to join it to another board but is worth thinking about if you do plan a multi board layout.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_11_11_17_6_54_08_2.JPG)
The bad

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_11_11_17_6_54_08_3.JPG)
The good

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_11_11_17_6_54_08_4.JPG)
And part of the reason for the thread, I have decided to go for a central road down the board and limit myself to a ribbon town, because I think that the waggon tracks bring some thing to the board, that will be a greater benefit visually than it's limiting scope for town layout.

Next up the buildings I refurbished.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: dinohunterpoa on November 11, 2017, 07:25:46 PM

Looking good!  ;)
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Vagabond on November 11, 2017, 08:45:27 PM
Looking good!  ;)

You've changed again. Like the beard - have you been playing Saga to get the advantage from it?

The refurbished buildings.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_11_11_17_8_28_35_0.JPG)
The Westmoreland Grocery Company on the ground floor.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_11_11_17_8_28_35_1.JPG)
Round the back and up the stairs is Blonde Ednas Saloon and Brothel.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_11_11_17_8_28_35_2.JPG)
This is the building before the refurb. 1970's style.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_11_11_17_8_28_35_3.JPG)
Marshall McKluskie just received his sawn off shotgun from Rob Tilney the Gunsmith

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_11_11_17_8_28_35_4.JPG)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_11_11_17_8_30_05_0.JPG)
The Bank Manager and Sheriff English Bob just emerge from their respective offices.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_11_11_17_8_30_05_1.JPG)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_11_11_17_8_30_05_2.JPG)
The Wells Fargo Office has just been robbed.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_11_11_17_8_30_05_3.JPG)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_11_11_17_8_30_05_4.JPG)
A very old balsa wood building with a puzzled looking Blacksmith outside. Just had a repaint and posters posted. The Smithy not the Smith.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_11_11_17_8_31_32_0.JPG)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_11_11_17_8_31_32_1.JPG)
Gunfight - This is my relatively recent build and is foam core rather than Balsa, a much more sturdy construction I think.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_11_11_17_8_31_32_2.JPG)

Next up - the board laid out with the bits and pieces so far.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Doug ex-em4 on November 11, 2017, 08:49:12 PM
Nice, John - looking forward to your next post.

So, could this appear at DevLAM18?

Doug
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: dinohunterpoa on November 11, 2017, 08:54:37 PM
Vagabond, I liked the minis and buildings very much, and they match the board as expected, CONGRATULATIONS!  :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*

Looking forward to see pictures of the whole setting!  ;)

The avatar picture is from an 1/6 action figure that has been given to me as a lovely gift from the girls of my game group... actually it's a bribe to join them in their new "Modern SpecOps" game project... and because it seems to look very much like myself in my PMC days another life ago!  lol
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: jon_1066 on November 13, 2017, 09:30:33 AM
Great modelling.  The clear bases work particularly well I think.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: hentzau on November 13, 2017, 09:48:45 PM
Yeah, those bases are great.  I had to go back and look a second time, because I didn't notice them the first time through.  That really says something.  Who made them?
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Vagabond on November 15, 2017, 12:17:58 PM
given to me as a lovely gift from the girls of my game group

I obviously live in the wrong country :) :)

Yeah, those bases are great.  I had to go back and look a second time, because I didn't notice them the first time through.  That really says something.  Who made them?

jon_1066 and hentzau, pleased you like them, I made them but the idea is Wolf Girls, look at any of her or Daves game reports and you will see them. it is PVC blister packaging, I just drew a circle round a £1 coin and cut it out with a pair of scissors. Donald Duke also does them but his are neater then mine because he has a stamp to cut them out.

Here are the pictures of the board with the buildings in place.

I would appreciate any thoughts on additional clutter that I could build easily. So far I have horse troughs, hitching posts and more outhouses on the list. How did they get water into horse troughs, did they all have pumps, did someone go round and fill them or is there some other way I don't know about?

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_15_11_17_12_33_09_0.jpg)
Over view of the board, I have used fencing with my normal base mixture because it's what I had, but will replace this with an arid base asap.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_15_11_17_12_33_10_1.jpg)
Earlier in this thread some one suggested having piles of lumber as a place marker for the next building and so for 30min work I have 4 pieces of solid cover, bottom left.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_15_11_17_12_33_10_2.jpg)
A view down Main Street.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_15_11_17_12_33_10_3.jpg)
Gunfight on Main street. (I know this didn't happen but what is a western without one) ;)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_15_11_17_12_33_10_4.jpg)
Same fight - different view.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_15_11_17_12_34_40_0.jpg)
The State Deputy Marshall and Town Sheriff - English Bob look on

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_15_11_17_12_34_40_1.jpg)
Bank raid - the outlaws burst out from the bank.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_15_11_17_12_34_40_2.jpg)
Joe Turner goes for his gun

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_15_11_17_12_34_40_3.jpg)
Not a very law abiding place, another gunfight erupts on Main Street.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_15_11_17_12_34_40_4.jpg)
The girls are outnumbered :?

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_15_11_17_12_35_38_0.jpg)
Marshall McKluskie views his cabbage patch. What veg grows in New Mexico around Las Vegas?
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Malamute on November 15, 2017, 12:24:47 PM
Very atmospheric. The baseboard looks terrific, especially the tumbleweeds. :)
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Doug ex-em4 on November 15, 2017, 12:50:19 PM
Nice photos, sir...! Looks great. And I recognise those cabbages :D

Looks just the kind of town The Free Range Boys would be at home in. Don't be surprised if they mosey on down Main Street some day.

Congratulations on a very splendid set-up.

Doug
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Vagabond on November 15, 2017, 02:52:35 PM
Very atmospheric. The baseboard looks terrific, especially the tumbleweeds. :)

Thanks for that, it is only from looking at posts on here that you realise what can be done without too much effort. I remember reading something Captain Blood posted about not using the back of a Subbuteo cloth, it was only then that the penny dropped that you shouldn't use the printed pitch side.  lol lol


Looks just the kind of town The Free Range Boys would be at home in. Don't be surprised if they mosey on down Main Street some day.


Doug - they would be more than welcome.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: dinohunterpoa on November 15, 2017, 04:03:16 PM
I obviously live in the wrong country :) :)

Vagabond, I can't say for sure it's the right country... I am fortunate to be currently living in a crazy place that looks like Ibiza on steroids, but only 40km to the South you can find a series of very poor fishermen's villages... But putting the social tensions and the oddness aside, the girls are just wonderful!  ;)

See for yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jx0kCrD7QRA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jx0kCrD7QRA)


Well, I liked your board very much! The buildings are just perfect, the minis are lovely and the clear bases are the way to go IMHO!

But, come on... WTF are those giant tumbleweeds?!  :o

Looking forward to the AARs! Keep going!  :D

Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Vampifan on November 15, 2017, 04:19:54 PM
That is a terrific set up you have. So much detail!  8)
I like the fact that your buildings look so realistically painted. they look weather-beaten and dusty, which is how it should be.  ;)
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Vagabond on November 15, 2017, 07:25:26 PM
Vagabond,
But, come on... WTF are those giant tumbleweeds?!  :o


Humm - they are not supposed to be tumble weed, the big sort of lichen like things are suppose to represent shrubs and bushes sort of like this.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/30/7162_15_11_17_8_22_14_0.jpg)

That is a terrific set up you have. So much detail!  8)
I like the fact that your buildings look so realistically painted. they look weather-beaten and dusty, which is how it should be.  ;)

I took a lot of inspiration for this from the paper builds you did for your zombie board, so its very rewarding that you like it.
Cheers
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: dinohunterpoa on November 16, 2017, 12:39:33 AM
Humm - they are not supposed to be tumble weed, the big sort of lichen like things are suppose to represent shrubs and bushes sort of like this.

But... 3 m tall???  :o

 lol lol lol lol lol
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: FifteensAway on November 16, 2017, 03:10:09 AM
Like the board, the lichen works if more carefully chosen - and don't be afraid to shape it to your needs, scissors work a charm or just tear into shape.  You can even base it - just lightly sprinkle with water from time to time to keep it drying out.

As for additional clutter, here are two options - a manure wagon and a water cart.  Someone had to clean the manure out of the street and the water was used to keep the dust down.  I'll be adding a few to my old west towns, models already purchased and awaiting time to build (been working on the trains lately when I kind find some time - never, ever enough).

Tumbleweeds - not native to America.  Apparently came from Italy or somewhere thereabouts.  One of the most iconic songs of 'the west' about something not even native to the west!  Tumbling' tumbleweeds...

However, lots of tumbleweeds in my neck of the woods, especially in the fields near where I work.  They can easily get to 4' across but bigger than is pretty rare.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Vagabond on November 16, 2017, 05:11:59 AM
Quote from: dinohunterpoa
But... 3 m tall???  :o

 lol lol lol lol lol

Have you seen the size of his cabbages? !!!   lol lol

Besides - everything is bigger in Texas and this is next door.  lol lol
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Harry Faversham on November 16, 2017, 05:30:50 AM
Kind of thought transparent bases a bit gimmicky...
I don't now!

 :-*
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Elk101 on November 16, 2017, 07:12:07 AM
That is a lovely set up. The bases work remarkably well too.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Andym on November 16, 2017, 07:13:24 AM
That’s a great table! :-* I can almost taste the dust!
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Michi on November 16, 2017, 08:09:26 AM
Indeed a beautiful table. I like the dusty look of that sandy town very much, although I prefer the muddy Colorado look for my own. The transparent bases look best I ever seen anywhere too!  :o Did you matt varnish them or is it just incidentally that they do not shine?
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Hammers on November 16, 2017, 08:41:35 AM
A thing of beauty!
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Andym on November 16, 2017, 09:35:16 AM
The transparent bases look best I ever seen anywhere too!

Now you mention it, they do look great! :-* I’m not normally a big fan of transparent bases, but yours blend to the point I can hardly see them!
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Treebeard on November 16, 2017, 09:49:48 AM
Fantastic. You can be proud of what you achieved here.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Mason on November 16, 2017, 10:54:31 AM
That is a beautiful set-up, sir.
It is making me want to go back to the Old West*, it is so good.
I think the base board is lovely and the 'marks' on the board which you call 'The Bad' work well, i reckon.
 :-* :-*



*It is certainly making me realise that I have nowhere near 'finished.
I certainly need to add more fencing and I really want to redo my own base boards now.....

Oh, and those 'blister' clear bases work really well.
So thin that you do not see the edges, which is what usually puts me off of clear bases.
I shall be considering that for a future project as there is too much work involved to redo my whole OW collection.

Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: dinohunterpoa on November 16, 2017, 11:33:07 AM
Have you seen the size of his cabbages? !!!   lol lol
Besides - everything is bigger in Texas and this is next door.  lol lol

 lol lol lol lol lol

BTW: yes, there are native tumbleweed species in Texas, so you can go with it!  lol lol lol lol lol

http://amarillo.com/news/local-news/2014-01-29/tumbleweeds-invade-texline-other-areas-drought-continues (http://amarillo.com/news/local-news/2014-01-29/tumbleweeds-invade-texline-other-areas-drought-continues)

Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Vagabond on November 16, 2017, 09:19:55 PM
I appreciate all your kind comment, but must say that most of this was inspired by other folk on here, Wolf Girl - Bases, Vampifan - Buildings, Jeff965 - Board, DinohunterPOA - tumbleweed ;) and most of all RebelYell for all the stuff about New Mexico which I found fascinating, I am seriously thinking of visiting there. The only down side is that I think I should have maybe built an adobe town instead of wood planking one. Maybe I need to move this one further north. :? and start again. ::)

The transparent bases look best I ever seen anywhere too!  :o Did you matt varnish them or is it just incidentally that they do not shine?
I do intend to matt varnish as a test to see if it cuts down any shine. I think though that because the PVC blister packing material is worn that helps cut down shine and also I was lucky with these photos. Having said that I think that the biggest distraction with commercial bases is the thickness.

I can almost taste the dust!

Andy If you have seen the film No Country For Old Men that is what I am aiming for, I'm pleased you think I might be somewhere near it.

the 'marks' on the board which you call 'The Bad' work well, i reckon.

I shall be considering that for a future project as there is too much work involved to redo my whole OW collection.


The obvious lines are disguised a bit by the clutter on top and the fact that I scattered sand to try and hide the hard edges between the buildings and the base board which was one of the main things I was trying to achieve and one of the reasons for the original post. It's part way there I think.
Regarding re-basing - because these are all resin Black Scorpion figures I thought it was worth a punt as they are so easy to cut and carve. I don't believe I will do any others because of the work involved rebasing and I do like to have the characters name on the base, but that's just me.

Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: dinohunterpoa on November 16, 2017, 11:44:56 PM
Having said that I think that the biggest distraction with commercial bases is the thickness.

Vagabond, I think that the MILA'S ULTRA-INVISO BASES are also much better to keep the figure glued to them than usual commercial bases - in which their acrylic material with time reacts with the super glue in a way that "ages" and weakens the bond, and the figure may come loose... usually in the worst possible moment and with "fatal" results!  :o

Oh, and thanks for the tumbleweed mention anyway!  lol

Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: FifteensAway on November 17, 2017, 04:30:25 AM
Hey, dinohunterpoa, is there scientific evidence that the tumbleweeds in Texas are native, as in endemic, to the region?  Genuinely curious because I was quite surprised when I learned - from a scientist - that tumbleweeds are not native to north America.  Not that it matters in a game, of course, unless - if the scientist is correct (and no reason to believe he is not) - the game is set before 1870 when the seeds are believed to have arrived here.

Maybe that problem in Texas stems from the tumbleweeds being a non-native and invasive species and thus without adequate 'predators' to keep them in check?

Now, let's return to this fun game and fine modeling.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: dinohunterpoa on November 17, 2017, 05:57:35 AM
From about 10 plant families that form tumbleweeds, 40% are native from the Americas; the other 60% are from Africa and Eurasia, and were naturalized in large areas of North America when their seeds came in agricultural shipments many decades ago.  

 ;)
 
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: SteveBurt on November 17, 2017, 10:48:44 AM
I think that's the first time I've ever seen transparent bases work.
Normally you see this big shiny thing with thick edges which looks much worse (IMO) than a normal base.
But your bases really do blend in to the terrain. Very nice.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Arundel on November 17, 2017, 03:42:25 PM
Yes, I also remain unconvinced by the current trend of using clear bases. But I must say yours look awfully nice!
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: dinohunterpoa on November 17, 2017, 10:35:47 PM

Mila Phipps' 2014 article How to do Clear Bases on the Pulp Alley Forum:

http://pulpalley.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=905 (http://pulpalley.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=905)

 ;)
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Andym on November 18, 2017, 06:45:21 AM
Thanks for that link Dinohunter, I hadn’t seen that before. I might try that on my next mini. I can see me changing everything I’ve painted so far! :? Dam, I now need a lot of blister packs! Do you think I can convince the wife that I need to buy a shed load of models just so I can get the plastic they come in? ;)
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: dinohunterpoa on November 18, 2017, 06:50:46 PM
Thanks for that link Dinohunter, I hadn’t seen that before. I might try that on my next mini. I can see me changing everything I’ve painted so far! :? Dam, I now need a lot of blister packs! Do you think I can convince the wife that I need to buy a shed load of models just so I can get the plastic they come in? ;)

You don't need to convince your wife of anything, just plant the idea as if it came from her own mind and you're done!  ;)
 
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Ockman on November 24, 2017, 07:35:04 AM
Wow, this is great! Lovely board, I will steal some inspiration for my sci-fi colony!
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Andym on November 24, 2017, 01:03:10 PM
You don't need to convince your wife of anything, just plant the idea as if it came from her own mind and you're done!  ;)
 

You’ve done that before! ;)
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Vagabond on November 26, 2017, 01:34:40 AM
I think that's the first time I've ever seen transparent bases work.
Normally you see this big shiny thing with thick edges which looks much worse (IMO) than a normal base.
But your bases really do blend in to the terrain. Very nice.

Yes, I also remain unconvinced by the current trend of using clear bases. But I must say yours look awfully nice!

Thanks, I think maybe because I have a textured surface on the board under the base it is acting a bit like a mat varnish which is a rougher finish than gloss varnish so that it breaks up the reflected light, as well as the pvc being worn and scratched, unlike the high gloss acrylic bases commercially available.
The other point is it costs nothing. I was amused the other day reading about MDF penny sized bases that cost five pence. Why not use pennies?

I am in the process of building some fencing and I intend to base it on pvc the same as the bases to try and blend it into the base board better than my usual basing method seen in the pictures. If it works I'll post it here, if not forget I mentioned it.

Wow, this is great! Lovely board, I will steal some inspiration for my sci-fi colony!

Thanks for the compliment, I'm quite pleased with where I've got to but I don't think I've resolved my original question of how to blend the buildings into the base board without fixing them into place and I didn't want to do that without resolving the other question which is what town layout will give me the best tactical games if I have a fixed town.
So this is an experiment and once I have played a number of games I will have a better idea of what works best and may return to it. However I feel an adobe town is called for with Mexicans in sombreros, señoritas in flowing dresses and maybe the magnificent seven lol
Cheers
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: dinohunterpoa on November 28, 2017, 06:39:11 PM

Vagabond, watch the new superb series GODLESS on Netflix, and then check out if your saloon has enough space to have a couple of mounted gunslingers wrecking havoc inside!  ;)

 
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: rebelyell2006 on December 05, 2017, 04:39:43 AM
Marshall McKluskie views his cabbage patch. What veg grows in New Mexico around Las Vegas?

A lot, and not much.  Before the arrival of the Spaniards in the Southwest, agriculture was driven around the "Three Sisters" of corn, beans, and squash (along with game, fish, and piñon).  For the most part, small vegetable gardens behind a house could grow just about anything that could be sustained in dry areas, including onions and chiles.  However, it was almost always sustenance farming only.  Farms did not export vegetables until after the turn of the century, and mostly just along the Rio Grande.  They tried wide-scale truck farming in the plains after 1915, but that required an expensive dam and irrigation canal system that collapsed during a multi-year drought.  Anybody with a source of water and water buckets (and a peon or a child to carry those buckets) could grow anything if they had the desire and the seeds.  The agricultural driving force was cattle and sheep, not vegetables.  A cabbage patch is perfect for the area.

That is mostly around the plains, the high desert areas, and other scrubby lands.  The various valleys in the mountains and mesas had spring-fed rivers and streams that, when routed with acequias, provided sufficient water for other crops, including vineyards.  Some of those valleys held large cereal farms, which fed into various grinding mills.  The grain was sold throughout the territory, and was the primary food source for the army outposts.  Not all rivers were necessarily conducive to farming: the Navajo at the Bosque Redondo concentration camp discovered that the Pecos River was too alkaline, and could not grow plants (thus contributing to their starvation).

The easiest way to find out what the soil can support is to find a traditional cookbook.  Farmers at the land grants traded their wool and excess cattle for manufactured goods from back east, not for other food.  Food also did not survive the Santa Fe Trail and other trails as well as non-food; changes in diet occurred when the railroad made food transportation economical.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Mad Lord Snapcase on December 05, 2017, 12:59:04 PM
I'm a bit late to this thread but I have to say, your town is looking bloody lovely, well done sir!   :-*
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Vagabond on December 05, 2017, 06:59:36 PM
A lot, and not much.  Before the arrival of the Spaniards in the Southwest, agriculture was driven around the "Three Sisters" of corn, beans, and squash (along with game, fish, and piñon).  For the most part, small vegetable gardens behind a house could grow just about anything that could be sustained in dry areas, including onions and chiles.  However, it was almost always sustenance farming only.  Farms did not export vegetables until after the turn of the century, and mostly just along the Rio Grande.  They tried wide-scale truck farming in the plains after 1915, but that required an expensive dam and irrigation canal system that collapsed during a multi-year drought.  Anybody with a source of water and water buckets (and a peon or a child to carry those buckets) could grow anything if they had the desire and the seeds.  The agricultural driving force was cattle and sheep, not vegetables.  A cabbage patch is perfect for the area.

That is mostly around the plains, the high desert areas, and other scrubby lands.  The various valleys in the mountains and mesas had spring-fed rivers and streams that, when routed with acequias, provided sufficient water for other crops, including vineyards.  Some of those valleys held large cereal farms, which fed into various grinding mills.  The grain was sold throughout the territory, and was the primary food source for the army outposts.  Not all rivers were necessarily conducive to farming: the Navajo at the Bosque Redondo concentration camp discovered that the Pecos River was too alkaline, and could not grow plants (thus contributing to their starvation).

The easiest way to find out what the soil can support is to find a traditional cookbook.  Farmers at the land grants traded their wool and excess cattle for manufactured goods from back east, not for other food.  Food also did not survive the Santa Fe Trail and other trails as well as non-food; changes in diet occurred when the railroad made food transportation economical.

I was hoping you would chime in, thanks a lot, so it seems that the Three Sisters was universal in the US, I've read about them in the NE and Canada but not in the SW I do remember a couple of posts talking about modelling them, I think it might have been Malamute and Mikedemana, I'll have to look them out.

Do you think I am anywhere close with the board colour for around Las Vegas and if not what would you suggest?

I'm a bit late to this thread but I have to say, your town is looking bloody lovely, well done sir!   :-*

Cheers, the building do sort of look better on a dusty board than they did in the Mabel Street Mob game, maybe I should do a western game next DevLAM as I enjoyed yours so much, even if I was just target practice for you and Doug. :? :?

Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: rebelyell2006 on December 06, 2017, 05:49:18 PM
Do you think I am anywhere close with the board colour for around Las Vegas and if not what would you suggest?

The color is not bad, considering how dry and sandy the ground can get.  With that said, I think th ground is perhaps a little too dry, and could use more grass.  "Las Vegas" is Spanish for The Meadows, and the area is right where the Great Plains meets the Sangre de Cristos Mountains.  The (lack of) ground cover is fine for Lincoln County and areas closer to the mesas.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Vagabond on December 06, 2017, 08:04:09 PM
The color is not bad, considering how dry and sandy the ground can get.  With that said, I think th ground is perhaps a little too dry, and could use more grass.  "Las Vegas" is Spanish for The Meadows, and the area is right where the Great Plains meets the Sangre de Cristos Mountains.  The (lack of) ground cover is fine for Lincoln County and areas closer to the mesas.

My original intention was to have grass patches but I sort of bottled out because I was quite pleased with the result I had got and didn't want to bugger it up.

I am thinking of doing a similar thing on the other side of this board but not having the waggon tracks down the centre to try and make it a bit more generic and also in the hope that it will warp in the opposite direction and pull the thing a bit flatter than it is. If and when I do that, if it looks any good I'll put it on here to see what you think.

Thanks for the advice.
Cheers
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: dinohunterpoa on December 06, 2017, 10:13:14 PM

Vagabond
, I think that in this arid environment you need some vultures and the remains of a cow (or buffalo):

(http://www.secretweaponminiatures.com/images/bits/BuffaloSkeleton.jpg)
From here: www.secretweaponminiatures.com (http://www.secretweaponminiatures.com)

(http://www.northstarfigures.com/images/0/img10390.jpg)
From here: http://www.northstarfigures.com/prod.php?prod=10390 (http://www.northstarfigures.com/prod.php?prod=10390)

 ;)

 

Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Vagabond on February 05, 2018, 07:31:21 PM
At the end of Nov I said I was building some fences with clear bases and if they worked ok'ish I would post them up here. Well it took longer than I thought but here they are, what do you think to the idea.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/31/7162_05_02_18_7_59_17_0.jpg)
The fences on the right are about 4" long and have a piece of PVC blister material at either end to make them stand up.

There are also 4 new s**t houses built using a core of balsa and fire lighting splints for the wood planking, idea from Silent Invader.

 (http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/31/7162_05_02_18_7_59_18_1.jpg)
In this picture there are 17 pieces of PVC supporting the fence.

Note the set of stuff behind the nearest buildings, The cube pack and barrels are commercial but the other packs and sacks are DAS, dead easy to do and a fraction of the cost.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/31/7162_05_02_18_7_59_18_2.jpg)
If you look carefully you can see some of the PVC pieces on this photo. You can also compare toilets, mine are the larger ones and the one on the right is a commercial product.
A slightly better view of my DAS work, it's not spectacular but it does the job.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/31/7162_05_02_18_7_59_18_3.jpg)
Just a close up to show the pvc better. the pailing fence on the right was my test piece and I thought the pailings were too big so cut them in half for the rest of the fences. In the background are some rail fences again stood on PVC.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/31/7162_05_02_18_7_59_18_4.jpg)
A better view of the rail fences and 2 other toilets my builds.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/31/7162_05_02_18_8_00_43_0.jpg)
A close up, the horses are also on clear bases.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/31/7162_05_02_18_8_00_43_1.jpg)
The hitchin post is also on a clear base, the water trough is placed on the top of part of the base which is why it stands proud of the board.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/31/7162_05_02_18_8_00_43_2.jpg)
At the other end of town the hitchin post on the left doesn't have a trough on it and you can see the pvc more clearly.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/31/7162_05_02_18_8_00_43_3.jpg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/31/7162_05_02_18_8_00_43_4.jpg)
Final view of the DAS work.

The construction of the fences is a bit crude but I just wanted to show the practicality of clear bases.


Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Elk101 on February 05, 2018, 08:29:37 PM
Nice layout and amazingly effective clear bases.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Mason on February 05, 2018, 09:22:39 PM
Those bases work really well.
I have to admit to being surprised just how well!
 8) 8)

Lovely town set-up too.
 :-* :-*

Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Michi on February 05, 2018, 09:24:19 PM
Excellent idea to put the fences on those clear bases too. Almost invisible, I hadn´t noticed if you would have not told me.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Elbows on February 05, 2018, 09:28:23 PM
Yep, very slick.  Nice work.
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Hu Rhu on February 05, 2018, 09:36:33 PM
Oh my that is a fantastic layout.  Great idea about the clear plastic bases.  :-* :-*
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Dr DeAth on February 06, 2018, 08:17:30 AM
What a great table.  Plastic bases work for me, which isn't helping my own decision making about using clear bases for my western figures or going with more traditional ones so they match all my other figures  lol
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Malamute on February 06, 2018, 08:41:45 AM
What a great table.  Plastic bases work for me, which isn't helping my own decision making about using clear bases for my western figures or going with more traditional ones so they match all my other figures  lol


You know the correct answer... ;) lol

The town looks great, very lived in with all the clutter etc. Spot on ;D
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Michi on February 06, 2018, 08:48:42 AM
You know the correct answer... ;) lol

Fourty-two...
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: OSHIROmodels on February 06, 2018, 09:04:12 AM
Great looking table and I think the clear bits supporting the fence work very well  :)
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Eric the Shed on February 06, 2018, 02:43:51 PM
stunning...
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Vagabond on February 16, 2018, 07:12:46 PM
Sorry I was in the middle of posting my thanks for your kind comments when the site went down. I am much more pleased with the scenery basing than I thought I would be, it remains to be seen how well it stands up to usage.

What a great table.  Plastic bases work for me, which isn't helping my own decision making about using clear bases for my western figures or going with more traditional ones so they match all my other figures  lol

Dr D most of the figures were resin and so easy to do but since then I've done more metal ones and they have not been a problem. For me at least the western figures don't really cross over with much else that I'm doing and so the game is either clear bases or not. I don't like the idea of some of one and some of the other on the same table, but it is no different to the normal games we play where your opponents figures are based differently to your own.
I had to take some figures off the clear pvc and rebase them again on clear pvc, they were a bugger to remove and when I got them off the pvc was still stuck to the feet of the figures and I had to cut it off with a knife, so very good adhesion with poundland super glue. the only negative was that I believe the glue had made the pvc a bit brittle, so as I was hacking at it to get the base off it broke, but I was using quite a lot of force.

Going at this about face as usual I've started a series of games on my fairly new blog where I am playing games as the town is built building by building, the pictures I posted here is how it will be in the end but the games portray it as it was being built - if that makes any sense.
I will probably post the 1st game here so you can see what I mean and you can call a doctor and a little white van.
Cheers
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Rossyuk on February 17, 2018, 12:29:20 PM
Caught this post a bit late what pdf's did you use for the buildings?
Title: Re: Western Town Layout and Board
Post by: Vagabond on February 17, 2018, 04:12:39 PM
Hi Rossyuk - Better late than never ;)

I didn't use PDF's what I had was either some old buildings in balsa or I made some carcases from foam board, and then printed sheets of wood texture I got from the internet. CG Textures is a good start but there is a lot of stuff out there.

Measure, cut, ink edges, and paste inside and out. Then the same thing with doors and windows, either pasting them over the wood texture or in some cases I had windows already cut out of the building with frames in, so left those in place or used embroidery plastic grating to create the central pieces of the window.

The bigger problem was I wanted to get a 3d effect so cut up coffee stirrers or latterly fire lighting spills to create the frames around the doors and windows, these were difficult to paint in situ because I couldn't mess up the printed wood texture, and I wanted a fairly rough painted finish on the wood work.

I also used coffee stirrers to edge all the bit's of the false front and sidewalks then tried to match the texture finish with my paint work.

Finally the better roofs are warbases card shingles painted by me - badly, the other roofs with the light shingles are textures I had on the buildings, from 25 years ago. I thought that they would do but the more I look at them the more inclined I am to replace them. I don't think printed roofs work because you can see more easily that there are no graduations in the shingle textures and the printing doesn't overcome that enough.

All I was trying to do was utilise old stuff that otherwise I would have thrown out and do a quick job so I could start gaming with something halfway decent. As it turned out I believe I would have been quicker to go down the coffee stirrer route and paint them. My problem is that I'm not good painting buildings and I didn't want them all grey and weathered which is what I usually end up with.

You could try World Works Games - they used to do some nice western pdf's although I'm not totally sure if they are in business or not. I got some brick buildings from them a couple of months back but apparently their site is up and down like a brides nighty.

Hope that helps - oh the other thing is signs and posters - they make a world of difference. If you look at the Tail Feather Saloon and then search out a game I posted on this board "Big Iron" to see it before postering and you will see what I mean.